The Problem w LDS Men

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HVDC
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2600

Re: The Problem w LDS Men

Post by HVDC »

Jamescm wrote: March 27th, 2023, 10:05 am I almost left the Church over this. Especially the leaders who fawn over their own wives and even other women. Jesus didn't organize His apostles to preach the word with a talk about how much better than them their wives and daughters were. It was a repeated note on my mission, most especially. One area leader actually ended his talk by blowing kisses to the sister missionaries in attendance as he walked out. That is inappropriate.

As for masculine traits? All growing up, I was taught to be docile, meek in the modern sense of the word, and exclusively a follower in all circumstances. This isn't about camping or hunting, I did those things in scouts, but that isn't what makes a "man". It wasn't until I was an adult that I had to learn and develop masculine traits such as "taking a hit for someone else", "stepping outside my comfort zone", "taking initiative to accomplish something I don't know how to do yet", or "publicly endorsing something that is highly unpopular". Those are all masculine, yang, bright, warm, creation.

When my tire went out on the highway in the late evening, "hire someone" wasn't an option. No one was open. I had to use a skill that I gratefully had gone out of my way to develop earlier, because no one came along to teach me-not my father (also a victim of this social trap), not the Church, not some public educational class in high school, not some college general education, no one. By that same masculine trait, I was able to fix a toilet in our home by renting some equipment for a fifth of the price that "hiring someone" would take. That left me more money for the expensive things that my wife likes to have, who thankfully for both of us is smart enough to admire my having useful skills instead of throwing money at all our problems. We don't even have the money to throw at most of our problems, we're going on seven children.

My peers are all beginning their slow descent into middle age with their sedentary lifestyles, passive approaches to the public and ecclesiastical squares, and enjoying abundant time with their two or maybe three children in front of screens distracting them or telling them lies about the world around them. I'm still able to lift, carry, and be jumped on by, all of those children. I'm able to teach my boys how to use the power they have, and how not to use it. I'm able to teach my girl what is admirable in men, and what she should avoid or doesn't have to expect in them.

When Jesus undertook the Atonement and the crucifixion, He did it as a fighter, a warrior, a man. "Meek" didn't mean He was weak or submissive (save to His Father). "Meek" meant "He did what He had to do despite the pain and sacrifice, and despite His ability and right to resist it." He loved others enough to do what it takes a man to do. He was not overly passive, just read the scriptures! How many times did He calmly but openly and clearly rebuke others? Herod the fox, Peter who must get Satan hence, the hypocrites and serpents that made up many of the Pharisees and Sadducees, the woman caught in adultery charged to sin no more, the money changers whom He actually assaulted with a weapon that He hand-crafted for the purpose thereof, and the entire villages and towns rebuked for their lack of faith!

Men speak softly and carry big sticks. Men who speak loudly, who swing their sticks inappropriately, or who are found without sticks when it's time to swing them are all symptoms of the lack of masculinity in homes and societies, not the over abundance of it. "Toxic masculinity"? It is a term I've heard used exclusively by the same people who otherwise oppose the doctrines of God, whether or not they attend mine or any other church. It is a term much like "homophobe", "racist", or "white supremacist", possessing the ability to rightfully exclude the speaker from consideration by whatever party he or she converses with on the matter. Satan wants everyone to always "go along to get along". Sometimes it is appropriate, that is why we have women. They are good at that. Sometimes it is not appropriate, and that is what men are for. We don't go along to get along, we question foolish leaders, dishonest experts, and we straight up reject the malicious from any social station. That is what the adversary labels "toxic masculinity" and if that trait were possessed by too many people, he would be unable to slide his wickedness into the hearts and laws of men through shame (if you don't ____, you're a racist!), subtlety (Two weeks to flatten the curve...), and logical fallacy (Love is love!).
Amen.

Sir H

DesertWonderer2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1165

Re: The Problem w LDS Men

Post by DesertWonderer2 »

FrankOne wrote: March 24th, 2023, 2:00 pm
zionssuburb wrote: March 24th, 2023, 11:29 am

Our modern culture would have you believe that the ideal man acts like Mr Rogers all the time, in every interaction in society. That was the point that they were making. When they said that Mr Rogers fiercely defended before Congress the things that were good that he was passionate about, that was true masculinity. They weren’t saying Mr Rogers wasn’t a masculine man.
Reading the above gave me a flash back of a skit I heard on the radio of when a Father confronts Mr. Rogers about his actions with his young son. Rogers gives some sketchy answers to the Father which sets the Father off into physically thrashing Rogers and during the melee , Mr. Rogers says "OOh , there goes my loafer". I guess when I heard that some decades ago, I must have been quite the neanderthal because I laughed so hard that I shed a few tears.
I remember that. LOL

JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9935

Re: The Problem w LDS Men

Post by JohnnyL »

Erastothenes wrote: March 23rd, 2023, 3:17 pm
JohnnyL wrote: March 23rd, 2023, 9:13 am
Erastothenes wrote: March 21st, 2023, 9:07 pm The problem as I see it is that our church has decided to put a bunch of effeminate men in charge. How many people love the stories of Captain Moroni or Samuel The Lamanite. These men kicked butt. They weren't afraid or milquetoast in what they thought or how they acted. Now we have a "prophet" who posts cute little pictures of him in his sweet sweater swinging on his swing set. Oh how inspiring. NOT. He doesn't inspire me as a man. Why can't a bishop grow a beard? To masculine? To aggressive? How come all of the leaders of the church are CEOs, MBAs, Doctors? How many of these men could change their own oil or punch a charging water buffalo in the face? The church has become super lame. That's it. It's boring. There's no inspiration from these professional religious leaders. Why go to church and hear another talk about how awesome Rusty is when I can stay at home and do something that is actually fulfilling as a man
"Our Church"? It seems like you're complaining that men who aren't like you are chosen by God to be Church leaders.

"Effeminate men"?

These men go out to the world weekly, preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, and try to spread his word to all nations. Then they come home, rest a day, and get back to it again (Alma rested quite a bit, too.); how about us? How many people have we shared the gospel with recently, especially when it wasn't easy?

Most of these men were great professionals, providing for their families; how about us?

They help their wives, they connect with their children; how about us?

President Nelson ("Rusty") was top of his profession; how about us?

He raised lots of children in the gospel; how about us?

He wakes up at 2:30am to receive revelation for a few hours, then wakes up early and gets to work for a full day; how about us?

I guess we just have different definitions of "man".

That's all right, Jesus inspired few as a "man", I'm guessing the leaders of the people looked down on him for not being manly (even his apostles did sometimes).

I'm pretty sure that not only could many of them change a tire or two, but they could pay other "REAL men" to do so while they made a lot more money doing other things. ("Unmanly" President Hinckley built much of his own house.)

Some have dealt with incredible amounts of pain, suffering, difficulties, and more, all the while doing their best to fulfill their covenants.

Two of the least "manly" presidents of the Church had beards, one a very long and impressive one, lol.

"punch a charging water buffalo in the face" Crap, I failed the man test... Do you have to live to tell about it for it to count? :( I had a chuckle. Though President Kimball and President Benson might have done something like that to a bull or cow, who knows.

P.S. Boy, it's going to suck when we find out Captain Moroni had a baby face with fuzz at best.. :P
How many boys today look up to any of the leaders of the church? How many of these men have done anything to look up to. I recall as a young man having this old school Vietnam Vet as our YM leader. He was tough as nails yet had a strong testimony. He had us doing things that scared us but made us stronger.
All the YM in our ward seem to look up to the leaders.

Nearly every boy went on a mission because he was an example of doing hard things and sticking with it. Now. Less than half of the boys in my stake are fulfilling a full mission.
Decades ago, half of ours never went, and most of them went inactive.

Of those that go a ton come home early because "it's hard. And I miss my mommy." Men have become weak and effeminate.
Home from missions: That was decades ago, also--just that those missionaries stayed and played instead. (One would never know it, but the other missionaries often found out. Someone posted a list of things their fellow missionaries did in Japan--wow! I knew my mission was bad, but I think they beat us.)

It's a lot of men. Unfortunately this weakness is getting passed on to our boys. I am embarrassed at the high school at boys that I coach baseball for. Out of the 20 boys I would say that maybe a dozen aren't weak. Of those 12 I would say maybe five would actually defend themselves if someone accosted their future wife.
I don't doubt that it's happening, and it is sad.

Personally I am disgusted by our leaders as they are promoting weakness and femininity in our young men.
How's that?

Would you find an Army Colonel posting pictures on his swing set? Nelson is supposed to be a leader of men. Have some dignity. Don't go around acting like some little prissy weakling.
But, most 90+ year-olds aren't alive to sit on a swing, much less able to, much less actually swing. ;) I'm sure some men have a good chuckle with that picture (though I have to say, I'm not one of them). He enjoys the small things in life? Who knows if some photographer asked him to get on and swing for a photo. I guess when you're 98, you can take a photo firing an M-15 and show it off. If I'm 98 and can even hold one up, I'll be happy.

Erastothenes
captain of 100
Posts: 287

Re: The Problem w LDS Men

Post by Erastothenes »

BuriedTartaria wrote: March 21st, 2023, 7:55 pm
tmac wrote: March 21st, 2023, 7:24 pm What kind of productive, constructive, and/or reproductive work it is that you do with that BMI you are so proud of . . . or even to benefit anyone else?
I practice daily intermittent fasting. No food after 8:00 pm, don't eat the next day until noon. I keep my stomach flat, I keep my chest more protruded farther out than my stomach and I keep my chest flat. I keep myself disciplined not letting myself eat whenever I feel like it. I am sexually appealing, there is masculinity to my countenance. I get approached by women. They freely offer me things I can't give them and I'm not willing to give them and I don't give them what they want because I love God.

I'm a gentle, kind person that many might lump in and label me with "the un-masculine men of the LDS church" because I focus on being soft-spoken and gentle in my interactions with others. I believe the charges Christ gives for how an individual to conduct one's self. I'm not exercising them now. Part of that is because this thread REALLY struck a nerve with me and part of it is to answer your questions. I think the general concept of this thread is petty criticism and shows a disregard for how Christ asks people to be.

I don't think Zion will be made up with 1840s-1980s American Man stereotypes and I'm not saying all of those aspects are necessarily bad, I just think Christ is being real with us when he says the meek will inherit the earth.


If this story was about some random LDS Elder's Quorum President and not about Joseph Smith, the EQP would be mocked and framed as a feminine LDS guy lacking masculinity who is seeking to fuel the far left agenda of robbing people of the ability to eat meat;

"We crossed the Embarras river and encamped on a small branch of the same about one mile west. In pitching my tent we found three massasaugas or prarie rattlesnakes, which the bretheren were about to kill, but I said, 'Let them alone--don't hurt them! How will the serpent ever lose his venom, while the servants of God possess the same disposition and continue to make war upon it? Men must become harmless, before the brute creation; and when men lose their vicious dispositions and cease to destroy the animal race, the lion and the lamb can dwell together, and the sucking child can play with the serpent in safety.' The brethren took the serpents carefully on sticks and carried them across the creek. I exhorted the bretheren not to kill a serpent, bird, or an animal of any kind during our journey unless it became necessary in order to preserve ourselves from hunger."


There is NOTHING un-manly about walking with tenderness and gentleness in life.


YOU people chose to make below-the-belt, rude, unfounded attacks on the core of a man's essence. You LOSE. Good day, sir!
Im confused. First you post that the most masculine, awesome man you know hunts for sports. And the yu write how its not a positive trait to kill animals for sports. So which is it. Is his needless killing of animals a positive trait of his or is he in the wrong for doing so?

Good & Global
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1510

Re: The Problem w LDS Men

Post by Good & Global »

Too late for betamales.churchofjesuschrist.org revision?

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