LDS Freedom Forum

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 5:41 pm

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 4:42 pm This is something they'll probably just report to your bishop or whichever local contact they have.

Report?? That’s funny.

Well of course, your salvation is at stake!

ransomme wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:04 pm

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 5:55 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 5:43 pm

Interesting times.

Why?

To have parents leaving, while sending missionaries out. I know others like that, and I am not far off. I know that Church Inc. is not the one true Church, but I still attend and fellowship and actively participate on the local level, like teaching EQ and Sunday School sometimes. And I'll prolly be sending one out at the end of summer. So yeah it is interesting. I want him to have good experiences and to help himself and others find Christ, but to have him help them become members is whatever.

I understand. Crazy times.

Knowing what I know now, I would not let my child serve a mission. And it’s because some of the things that my son has told me and experienced. Unbelievable

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:09 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:04 pm

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 5:55 pm

Why?

To have parents leaving, while sending missionaries out. I know others like that, and I am not far off. I know that Church Inc. is not the one true Church, but I still attend and fellowship and actively participate on the local level, like teaching EQ and Sunday School sometimes. And I'll prolly be sending one out at the end of summer. So yeah it is interesting. I want him to have good experiences and to help himself and others find Christ, but to have him help them become members is whatever.

I understand. Crazy times.

Knowing what I know now, I would not let my child serve a mission. And it’s because some of the things that my son has told me and experienced. Unbelievable

I’m looking forward to our conversation when he’s home

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:11 pm

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:09 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:04 pm

To have parents leaving, while sending missionaries out. I know others like that, and I am not far off. I know that Church Inc. is not the one true Church, but I still attend and fellowship and actively participate on the local level, like teaching EQ and Sunday School sometimes. And I'll prolly be sending one out at the end of summer. So yeah it is interesting. I want him to have good experiences and to help himself and others find Christ, but to have him help them become members is whatever.

I understand. Crazy times.

Knowing what I know now, I would not let my child serve a mission. And it’s because some of the things that my son has told me and experienced. Unbelievable

I’m looking forward to our conversation when he’s home

Why wait? Talk to him now. It’s pday!

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:21 pm

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:11 pm

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:09 pm

I understand. Crazy times.

Knowing what I know now, I would not let my child serve a mission. And it’s because some of the things that my son has told me and experienced. Unbelievable

I’m looking forward to our conversation when he’s home

Why wait? Talk to him now. It’s pday!

We have, but I prefer in person conversations

ransomme wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:04 pm

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 5:55 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 5:43 pm

Interesting times.

Why?

To have parents leaving, while sending missionaries out. I know others like that, and I am not far off. I know that Church Inc. is not the one true Church, but I still attend and fellowship and actively participate on the local level, like teaching EQ and Sunday School sometimes. And I'll prolly be sending one out at the end of summer. So yeah it is interesting. I want him to have good experiences and to help himself and others find Christ, but to have him help them become members is whatever.

Is it (the church) really bringing people to Christ, given what you have to concede in order to make covenants?

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:48 pm

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:21 pm

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:11 pm

I’m looking forward to our conversation when he’s home

Why wait? Talk to him now. It’s pday!

We have, but I prefer in person conversations

So you’re saying you’re gonna come visit us?! Yay!

… was walking A Gates at SLC Airport this morning.
I spotted six elders and four sisters all shiny and polished hanging out waiting for a flight.

All had their smart phones out, fingers dancing, eyes intent, looking every bit the teenagers they were a short few weeks ago, (but better dressed..).

I couldn’t help but wonder if they were doing one last check of Instagram, or TikTok before heading into the mission field, or maybe being obedient working thru the scriptures or other missionary training materials…

marc wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 2:24 pm I wonder why missionaries don't just randomly knock on our doors (at least not mine) and say hello for a quick visit? When I was a missionary, we were out talking to everybody and visiting everybody that didn't turn us away, including members/less active members even if it was just to share one scripture. Where I live, there's a sign-up sheet to invite missionaries over which I don't sign. I don't think most members sign up.

I greatly preferred knocking on members’ doors than tracting, which actually I disliked. It was also more productive.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:58 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:04 pm

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 5:55 pm

Why?

To have parents leaving, while sending missionaries out. I know others like that, and I am not far off. I know that Church Inc. is not the one true Church, but I still attend and fellowship and actively participate on the local level, like teaching EQ and Sunday School sometimes. And I'll prolly be sending one out at the end of summer. So yeah it is interesting. I want him to have good experiences and to help himself and others find Christ, but to have him help them become members is whatever.

Is it (the church) really bringing people to Christ, given what you have to concede in order to make covenants?

No, it happens on the personal level, when sitting down and reading the scriptures with someone, or they alone with the scriptures. I got to witness and participate in that.

That's why I said whatever about people actually joining. What a bummer that it's all tied to roping them into the Church.

JK4Woods wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 7:39 pm … was walking A Gates at SLC Airport this morning.
I spotted six elders and four sisters all shiny and polished hanging out waiting for a flight.

All had their smart phones out, fingers dancing, eyes intent, looking every bit the teenagers they were a short few weeks ago, (but better dressed..).

I couldn’t help but wonder if they were doing one last check of Instagram, or TikTok before heading into the mission field, or maybe being obedient working thru the scriptures or other missionary training materials…

It's not "one last check" of tik tok, etc. missionaries are using those apps to do the work through strange musical skits using the Book of Mormon as a prop, choreographed dance routines, parkour, lip-syncs, and other strange things that were unheard of for missionaries to do 10 years ago.

I think some of the more prolific producers actually go on missions to become social media influencers.

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:09 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:04 pm

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 5:55 pm

Why?

To have parents leaving, while sending missionaries out. I know others like that, and I am not far off. I know that Church Inc. is not the one true Church, but I still attend and fellowship and actively participate on the local level, like teaching EQ and Sunday School sometimes. And I'll prolly be sending one out at the end of summer. So yeah it is interesting. I want him to have good experiences and to help himself and others find Christ, but to have him help them become members is whatever.

I understand. Crazy times.

Knowing what I know now, I would not let my child serve a mission. And it’s because some of the things that my son has told me and experienced. Unbelievable

Would you mine sharing what your son has experienced and told you about his mission?

I suspect some things but It's better not to assume...

Glad my son is 10 not 18.

I don't think he will be serving...but my wife is still active. On Sunday's we stay home read together and discuss Isaiah and the New Testament.

ransomme wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 12:12 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:58 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:04 pm

To have parents leaving, while sending missionaries out. I know others like that, and I am not far off. I know that Church Inc. is not the one true Church, but I still attend and fellowship and actively participate on the local level, like teaching EQ and Sunday School sometimes. And I'll prolly be sending one out at the end of summer. So yeah it is interesting. I want him to have good experiences and to help himself and others find Christ, but to have him help them become members is whatever.

Is it (the church) really bringing people to Christ, given what you have to concede in order to make covenants?

No, it happens on the personal level, when sitting down and reading the scriptures with someone, or they alone with the scriptures. I got to witness and participate in that.

That's why I said whatever about people actually joining. What a bummer that it's all tied to roping them into the Church.

Yes, you can bring people to Christ, but you don’t have to do it as a missionary for the LDS church. I think it’s actually almost more harmful to bring people into the church due to what they have done to Christ’s gospel. Bring them to Christ, leave the church out of it. That’s kind of difficult to do as an LDS missionary.

Refraction75 wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 3:59 am

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:09 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:04 pm

To have parents leaving, while sending missionaries out. I know others like that, and I am not far off. I know that Church Inc. is not the one true Church, but I still attend and fellowship and actively participate on the local level, like teaching EQ and Sunday School sometimes. And I'll prolly be sending one out at the end of summer. So yeah it is interesting. I want him to have good experiences and to help himself and others find Christ, but to have him help them become members is whatever.

I understand. Crazy times.

Knowing what I know now, I would not let my child serve a mission. And it’s because some of the things that my son has told me and experienced. Unbelievable

Would you mine sharing what your son has experienced and told you about his mission?

I suspect some things but It's better not to assume...

Glad my son is 10 not 18.

I don't think he will be serving...but my wife is still active. On Sunday's we stay home read together and discuss Isaiah and the New Testament.

I’ll mention one thing….he’s had to babysit most of his companions who don’t want to be there and have no desire to work. It seems most don’t want to be there and are there because of parents expectations. Some have had mental problems. It’s also ridiculous how the MPs coax people to stay instead of being realistic and compassionate with them.

This was the reason for my text to the sisters. I would love if the sisters came over and we played some games, chatted and had fun. A lot of missionaries are struggling and have nowhere to turn to because the church does not handle problems well. And my opinion is that the missionaries need more down time to decompress. If they don’t have time to refill their tank then depression and other problems arise. Really unhealthy.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 5:43 am

ransomme wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 12:12 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:58 pm

Is it (the church) really bringing people to Christ, given what you have to concede in order to make covenants?

No, it happens on the personal level, when sitting down and reading the scriptures with someone, or they alone with the scriptures. I got to witness and participate in that.

That's why I said whatever about people actually joining. What a bummer that it's all tied to roping them into the Church.

Yes, you can bring people to Christ, but you don’t have to do it as a missionary for the LDS church. I think it’s actually almost more harmful to bring people into the church due to what they have done to Christ’s gospel. Bring them to Christ, leave the church out of it. That’s kind of difficult to do as an LDS missionary.

I get it. For me a mission is for one's own self, and one's relationship with God. I just wish that it would be the rite of passage that it could and should be.

ransomme wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 6:35 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 5:43 am

ransomme wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 12:12 am

No, it happens on the personal level, when sitting down and reading the scriptures with someone, or they alone with the scriptures. I got to witness and participate in that.

That's why I said whatever about people actually joining. What a bummer that it's all tied to roping them into the Church.

Yes, you can bring people to Christ, but you don’t have to do it as a missionary for the LDS church. I think it’s actually almost more harmful to bring people into the church due to what they have done to Christ’s gospel. Bring them to Christ, leave the church out of it. That’s kind of difficult to do as an LDS missionary.

I get it. For me a mission is for one's own self, and one's relationship with God. I just wish that it would be the rite of passage that it could and should be.

Why is a mission about “self”? Sure, you can strengthen your relationship w/ the Lord while sharing “the good news” but the intent is to help others come unto Christ.

I’m also curious about this “rite of passage.” Coming of age and turning your heart over to Jesus is a personal and intimate decision. I’m not sure what that has to do w/ an LDS mission.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 6:46 am

ransomme wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 6:35 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 5:43 am

Yes, you can bring people to Christ, but you don’t have to do it as a missionary for the LDS church. I think it’s actually almost more harmful to bring people into the church due to what they have done to Christ’s gospel. Bring them to Christ, leave the church out of it. That’s kind of difficult to do as an LDS missionary.

I get it. For me a mission is for one's own self, and one's relationship with God. I just wish that it would be the rite of passage that it could and should be.

Why is a mission about “self”? Sure, you can strengthen your relationship w/ the Lord while sharing “the good news” but the intent is to help others come unto Christ.

I’m also curious about this “rite of passage.” Coming of age and turning your heart over to Jesus is a personal and intimate decision. I’m not sure what that has to do w/ an LDS mission.

Yeah for me, it was easiest to just forget myself and work for others.... And in that process I kinda really learned who I am and what I'm really all about.
There's something about real service(can be a mission, but not by default) that really opens our eyes to who others really are and who we really are, in the true perspective/eternal perspective.
This is why I can still say I'd recommend a mission for anyone who sincerely has the desire to serve one.
If ye have a desire to serve, Ye are called to the work (the scripture is something close to that )

Cruiserdude wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 7:08 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 6:46 am

ransomme wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 6:35 am

I get it. For me a mission is for one's own self, and one's relationship with God. I just wish that it would be the rite of passage that it could and should be.

Why is a mission about “self”? Sure, you can strengthen your relationship w/ the Lord while sharing “the good news” but the intent is to help others come unto Christ.

I’m also curious about this “rite of passage.” Coming of age and turning your heart over to Jesus is a personal and intimate decision. I’m not sure what that has to do w/ an LDS mission.

Yeah for me, it was easiest to just forget myself and work for others.... And in that process I kinda really learned who I am and what I'm really all about.
There's something about real service(can be a mission, but not by default) that really opens our eyes to who others really are and who we really are, in the true perspective/eternal perspective.
This is why I can still say I'd recommend a mission for anyone who sincerely has the desire to serve one.
If ye have a desire to serve, Ye are called to the work (the scripture is something close to that )

D&C 4 is a great start… but even with all of that, what are LDS missionaries really converting people to? Sure, they can say “Jesus” all day long, but in the end, a convert must agree to a litany of false beliefs.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 7:23 am

Cruiserdude wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 7:08 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 6:46 am

Why is a mission about “self”? Sure, you can strengthen your relationship w/ the Lord while sharing “the good news” but the intent is to help others come unto Christ.

I’m also curious about this “rite of passage.” Coming of age and turning your heart over to Jesus is a personal and intimate decision. I’m not sure what that has to do w/ an LDS mission.

Yeah for me, it was easiest to just forget myself and work for others.... And in that process I kinda really learned who I am and what I'm really all about.
There's something about real service(can be a mission, but not by default) that really opens our eyes to who others really are and who we really are, in the true perspective/eternal perspective.
This is why I can still say I'd recommend a mission for anyone who sincerely has the desire to serve one.
If ye have a desire to serve, Ye are called to the work (the scripture is something close to that )

D&C 4 is a great start… but even with all of that, what are LDS missionaries really converting people to? Sure, they can say “Jesus” all day long, but in the end, a convert must agree to a litany of false beliefs.

Like committing to pay ten percent of monthly income to the church or you can’t be baptized.

Or keeping a partial list of don’ts collectively known as the “Word of Wisdom”. (But it’s ok to ignore all the other tenets in section 89…). And if you don’t, you won’t be baptized…

And you have to make an “oath-like” covenant to obey these men, men who teach philosophies that directly contradict Christ’s teachings. I believe the definition is called “anti-Christian”, when you preach against Christ’s gospel.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 6:46 am

ransomme wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 6:35 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 5:43 am

Yes, you can bring people to Christ, but you don’t have to do it as a missionary for the LDS church. I think it’s actually almost more harmful to bring people into the church due to what they have done to Christ’s gospel. Bring them to Christ, leave the church out of it. That’s kind of difficult to do as an LDS missionary.

I get it. For me a mission is for one's own self, and one's relationship with God. I just wish that it would be the rite of passage that it could and should be.

Why is a mission about “self”? Sure, you can strengthen your relationship w/ the Lord while sharing “the good news” but the intent is to help others come unto Christ.

I’m also curious about this “rite of passage.” Coming of age and turning your heart over to Jesus is a personal and intimate decision. I’m not sure what that has to do w/ an LDS mission.

Love the Lord, love the neighbor as thyself. It is one's own self becoming one with Him and others.

I don't mean it in a greedy way. It's just that one has to learn to overcome their natural man. A mission was a good opportunity to work on that.

Something like that.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 7:23 am

Cruiserdude wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 7:08 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 6:46 am

Why is a mission about “self”? Sure, you can strengthen your relationship w/ the Lord while sharing “the good news” but the intent is to help others come unto Christ.

I’m also curious about this “rite of passage.” Coming of age and turning your heart over to Jesus is a personal and intimate decision. I’m not sure what that has to do w/ an LDS mission.

Yeah for me, it was easiest to just forget myself and work for others.... And in that process I kinda really learned who I am and what I'm really all about.
There's something about real service(can be a mission, but not by default) that really opens our eyes to who others really are and who we really are, in the true perspective/eternal perspective.
This is why I can still say I'd recommend a mission for anyone who sincerely has the desire to serve one.
If ye have a desire to serve, Ye are called to the work (the scripture is something close to that )

D&C 4 is a great start… but even with all of that, what are LDS missionaries really converting people to? Sure, they can say “Jesus” all day long, but in the end, a convert must agree to a litany of false beliefs.

Many cultures have a rite of passage, from childhood into adulthood.

For Mormons that is clearly a mission. My mission president would call a mission the University of Life. It was fitting

For me it was a wondrous experience in a fast far-off foreign land. Off on my own with just a roommate. Even from our own support group we were a great distance away, like a 17 hour train ride from the mission president. Turnaround time for letters home and back was 8-12 weeks. I was tested and tried in many ways on my mission. It was for sure a rite of passage spiritually and for maturity.

ransomme wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 8:44 am Many cultures have a rite of passage, from childhood into adulthood.

For Mormons that is clearly a mission. My mission president would call a mission the University of Life. It was fitting

For me it was a wondrous experience in a fast off foreign land. Off on my own with just a roommate. Even from our own support group we were distance away, like a 17 hour train ride from the mission president. Turns around time for letters home and back was 8-12 weeks. I was tested and tried in many ways on my mission. It was for sure a rite of passage spiritually and for maturity.

I get the concept/importance of these rites of passage... I just don't think an LDS mission is the best way to do that... but that's me. At least not what it has become today.

My son, for example, is working through his "rite of passage" by leaving said corporation.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 8:52 am

ransomme wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 8:44 am Many cultures have a rite of passage, from childhood into adulthood.

For Mormons that is clearly a mission. My mission president would call a mission the University of Life. It was fitting

For me it was a wondrous experience in a fast off foreign land. Off on my own with just a roommate. Even from our own support group we were distance away, like a 17 hour train ride from the mission president. Turns around time for letters home and back was 8-12 weeks. I was tested and tried in many ways on my mission. It was for sure a rite of passage spiritually and for maturity.

I get the concept/importance of these rites of passage... I just don't think an LDS mission is the best way to do that... but that's me. At least not what it has become today.

My son, for example, is working through his "rite of passage" by leaving said corporation.

I am also not saying it is, only that it could and should have been. I am fantasizing about a total what if...

ransomme wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 12:06 pm I am also not saying it is, only that it could and should have been. I am fantasizing about a total what if...

The skies the limit on the things "that could have been" with this church. I've asked a lot of "what ifs..."