Kicked out of the club

[Reluctant Watchman]

Doesn't matter. They're still asleep and under the cruel control of domineering leadership. He's already made the video available to the world. Share it with family and your LDS friends. Such a thoughtful, faithful father and brave Christian.

I do believe sharing these experiences is important. They more people are exposed to humble men who defend their faith, the greater the influence these experiences will have. Maybe not on the most ardent believers, but there are many who are waking up their awful situation.

[Chip]

Here is something I wonder about…. Are members of his ward curious enough to even look at his video?

From my experience, the reaction of members varies greatly. Some are scared they’ll lose their own testimonies. Some don’t care at all, they “know what they know.” Some acknowledge the wrongs committed and don’t agree w/ the church, yet choose to stay to avoid the shame that comes when you question their idols *cough* I mean, leaders.

And some are hellbent on their traditions and have spent a lifetime defending their faith. To even suggest there are errors or false beliefs scares the sh•t out of them, to even think they’ve wasted a life following false prophets. The list of reasons goes on and on.

Man, that is a great run-down on the reasons people deny the truth.

I would like to speak up and say something in church, but I know they will reject anything I say for the various reasons you listed. I have spoken to many of them privately on multiple occasions and I get those very responses, anyway.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Some people make the wrong decisions for the right reasons. A lot of the people who promote masks and jags do so because they think they are protecting others from suffering. They don't all know that there are issues concerning the injections, or at least didn't.

I think the serious issue was when some more fanatical elements pushed the ideas of forced injections and even incarceration, and restrictions on where one could go. Many supporters of the masks and jabs baulked at these. Forced injections did happen – I know of a case in Scotland where a woman in psychiatric confinement was pinned down and given the Covid jag by force.

The sheeple of this world thought they were loving their neighbor by wearing a mask and injecting themselves. They were deceived. They placed their trust in the arm of flesh. By doing so they’ll reap the “curse” noted by Christ in 2 Nephi 28:31.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Man, that is a great run-down on the reasons people deny the truth.

I would like to speak up and say something in church, but I know they will reject anything I say for the various reasons you listed. I have spoken to many of them privately on multiple occasions and I get those very responses, anyway.

I think private discussions are the most important ones to have. It gives people the opportunity to open up and share their true feelings. One of the greatest tools Satan uses is peer pressure. People almost never speak up in a crowd, they’re almost always unsure of themselves. As a body of saints, we’ve been conditioned for generations to question our own revelation, especially when it contradicts a church leader. I’ve been shamed multiple times for questioning these idols, and was told specifically in an email from my stake president that when my revelation contradicts their revelation, “I will know of a surety that I am on the road to apostasy.” What a load of horse poop.

[Chip]

An independent thinker!

He mentioned at the beginning that he does not watch television.

Those that don't watch television are dangerous!

You nailed it! TV is the great annhilator of thought and sensitivity. Everyone I know who is aware of our situation avoids television. Everyone that is asleep watches it casually. I think the church leaders all watch TV.

[Atrasado]

As I was praying last night, I was reminded that it isn't given to me to judge. We don't know the hearts of all who resist truth, and almost all of us do resist truth to one degree or another.

Also, to me it seems that being deceived by Satan is not the same as following him with open eyes. That's different because being deceived will lead you to the telestial or terrestrial kingdoms and willfully following Satan will lead to outer darkness, if one does not repent.

Perhaps, if like Saul we are sincerely trying, although deceived, the Lord will reach out to us and save us.

[Reluctant Watchman]

An independent thinker!

He mentioned at the beginning that he does not watch television.

Those that don't watch television are dangerous!

You nailed it! TV is the great annhilator of thought and sensitivity. Everyone I know who is aware of our situation avoids television. Everyone that is asleep watches it casually. I think the church leaders all watch TV.

TBH, I don’t think the leaders watch television much. The Mormon leaks video shows the PSRs being spoon fed info from their little workers. Gong was one of them before he was called to the Q12. I personally think it’s far more nefarious. They are not acting out of ignorance to mainstream media narratives.

[Reluctant Watchman]

As I was praying last night, I was reminded that it isn't given to me to judge. We don't know the hearts of all who resist truth, and almost all of us do resist truth to one degree or another.

Also, to me it seems that being deceived by Satan is not the same as following him with open eyes. That's different because being deceived will lead you to the telestial or terrestrial kingdoms and willfully following Satan will lead to outer darkness, if one does not repent.

Perhaps, if like Saul we are sincerely trying, although deceived, the Lord will reach out to us and save us.

It isn’t given to us to judge “unrighteously.” But we are to judge, and I think more than anything, this comes about in how we interact with others. We can judge not to follow them. We can judge by speaking up about truth. But I can never truly now the heart of a person. I’ve studied MK Ultra enough to have compassion on those who have been traumatized, yet they act in sinful ways. Christ taught us to pray for our enemies and those who hurt us… yet we don’t condone their evil acts.

As Christ taught: (JST Matt. 7)

1 Now these are the words which Jesus taught his disciples that they should say unto the people.
2 Judge not unrighteously, that ye be not judged; but judge righteous judgment.

[Atrasado]

As I was praying last night, I was reminded that it isn't given to me to judge. We don't know the hearts of all who resist truth, and almost all of us do resist truth to one degree or another.

Also, to me it seems that being deceived by Satan is not the same as following him with open eyes. That's different because being deceived will lead you to the telestial or terrestrial kingdoms and willfully following Satan will lead to outer darkness, if one does not repent.

Perhaps, if like Saul we are sincerely trying, although deceived, the Lord will reach out to us and save us.

It isn’t given to us to judge “unrighteously.” But we are to judge, and I think more than anything, this comes about in how we interact with others. We can judge not to follow them. We can judge by speaking up about truth. But I can never truly now the heart of a person. I’ve studied MK Ultra enough to have compassion on those who have been traumatized, yet they act in sinful ways. Christ taught us to pray for our enemies and those who hurt us… yet we don’t condone their evil acts.

As Christ taught: (JST Matt. 7)

1 Now these are the words which Jesus taught his disciples that they should say unto the people.
2 Judge not unrighteously, that ye be not judged; but judge righteous judgment.

I can judge actions all day long, which is what I think you're referring to. I can also, by the Spirit discern the nature of a person. I just can't judge motive or history.

Like President Nelson. I know he's a wicked man, but I can't condemn him personally (I say personally because I also can't sustain him as leader of the Church) because I don't know why he acts the way he does. Final judgement is the Lord's.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I can judge actions all day long, which is what I think you're referring to. I can also, by the Spirit discern the nature of a person. I just can't judge motive or history.

Like President Nelson. I know he's a wicked man, but I can't condemn him personally (I say personally because I also can't sustain him as leader of the Church) because I don't know why he acts the way he does. Final judgement is the Lord's.

Yes, we all make judgement every day, which just means we make decisions. Decisions about our beliefs, and who we choose to believe or not believe.

As far as motive or history… I think these can be judged to a certain degree. I say that because Christ taught us, “by their fruits ye shall know them.” Fruits are history. Motive, on the other hand is a bit more difficult. But.. even then, I can see that motives are gauged by fruits. Hiding $32B has the motive of greed. Preaching that you can “never lead astray” is prideful. They surely don’t agree w/ that, but that’s how I judge their motives.

[Robin Hood]

An independent thinker!

He mentioned at the beginning that he does not watch television.

Those that don't watch television are dangerous!

You nailed it! TV is the great annhilator of thought and sensitivity. Everyone I know who is aware of our situation avoids television. Everyone that is asleep watches it casually. I think the church leaders all watch TV.

As I have mentioned previously, we quit watching TV over 3 years ago and it was one of the best things I've ever done.

[Reluctant Watchman]

My wife and I were quite poor when we got married 20+ years ago. We didn’t have a television connected to any stations and never paid for subscription service, but did watch the occasional movie. We continued that tradition to this day. I do read the news quite extensively, but I never trust any of it unless I do more study on topics interests me.

[ransomme]

LOL!!! I love the name of the youtube channel "Uncorrelated Mormonism"

[ransomme]

I said satanists, not because they were TBM, but because they refuse to follow Christ.

I can't judge their heart. To me, they are ignorant and blinded by church tradition. They'll follow their magnanimous Ieaders to the ends of the earth. Doesn't make it right, but it also doesn't necessarily show a willingness to serve Satan.

Well, the guy that got kicked out was reading scripture. The Bishop and Stake President were not following the scriptures. The members of the ward have a choice to make. Follow the scriptures or follow the leaders. When they decided to follow the leaders, that is when they were actually following satan.

People are born with the light of Christ and can discern what is right from what is wrong. Jesus is big on freedom. He gave his life for it. For a Bishop or Stake President to make a mandate that removes freedom, that is based not on fact or science, or even God's word, but pure nonsense, is anti-Christ. The members chose anti-Christ over the scriptures. I think they deserve the title of satanists.

Might I suggest that they may be more fittingly called members of the Church of the Devil?

[Reluctant Watchman]

I do find that term fitting. They are following the whore of Babylon. The “church of the Devil” doesn’t always go around with horns and a goat head. They often masquerade as the very face of God.

[Thinker]

Christ would get excommunicated from this Church.

That says a lot.

[Thinker]

I can judge actions all day long, which is what I think you're referring to. I can also, by the Spirit discern the nature of a person. I just can't judge motive or history.

Like President Nelson. I know he's a wicked man, but I can't condemn him personally (I say personally because I also can't sustain him as leader of the Church) because I don't know why he acts the way he does. Final judgement is the Lord's.

Yes, we all make judgement every day, which just means we make decisions. Decisions about our beliefs, and who we choose to believe or not believe.

As far as motive or history… I think these can be judged to a certain degree. I say that because Christ taught us, “by their fruits ye shall know them.” Fruits are history. Motive, on the other hand is a bit more difficult. But.. even then, I can see that motives are gauged by fruits. Hiding $32B has the motive of greed. Preaching that you can “never lead astray” is prideful. They surely don’t agree w/ that, but that’s how I judge their motives.

Maybe it’s more about trust & patterns - like baseball - 3 strikes and out. If someone goofs once - maybe it was unintentional & they may still be trustworthy. But if they have a pattern of repeatedly “goofing” & not taking responsibility - then they ought not to be trusted.

And “no matter how thin you slice it, there are always 2 sides.” We are told to listen to profits & follow them - then the other side is to listen to distinguish false profits & NOT follow them. To make it more complicated, the falsity and truth are mixed - nobody’s 100% good nor 100% evil. We must judge - to CHOOSE right from wrong, good from evil - & sometimes it feels like looking for a needle in a haystack.

[Atrasado]

I can judge actions all day long, which is what I think you're referring to. I can also, by the Spirit discern the nature of a person. I just can't judge motive or history.

Like President Nelson. I know he's a wicked man, but I can't condemn him personally (I say personally because I also can't sustain him as leader of the Church) because I don't know why he acts the way he does. Final judgement is the Lord's.

Yes, we all make judgement every day, which just means we make decisions. Decisions about our beliefs, and who we choose to believe or not believe.

As far as motive or history… I think these can be judged to a certain degree. I say that because Christ taught us, “by their fruits ye shall know them.” Fruits are history. Motive, on the other hand is a bit more difficult. But.. even then, I can see that motives are gauged by fruits. Hiding $32B has the motive of greed. Preaching that you can “never lead astray” is prideful. They surely don’t agree w/ that, but that’s how I judge their motives.

I agree. That's what I meant by discerning who they are. It's just that as a mortal I don't completely understand where the motives came from. I know that's parsing things quite finely, but I think it matters.

[GeeR]

An independent thinker!

He mentioned at the beginning that he does not watch television.

Those that don't watch television are dangerous!

You nailed it! TV is the great annhilator of thought and sensitivity. Everyone I know who is aware of our situation avoids television. Everyone that is asleep watches it casually. I think the church leaders all watch TV.

I guess I'm kind of an addict to T.V. When I get off work and after dinner I unthinkingly head to my big screen. But you're right so much is a waste of time and Satanic and perverted but if it gets too bad I have a remote and can switch to something more mild. I've noticed somewhat lately the increase of the F word. Sometimes the overkill of that word is just pathetic--I was watching a movie one time and Danny DeVito was using that word in a repetative manner. I wish he would have appeared in my living room so I could bust him in the chops.

But I have some good news, somewhat, I found a movie that I recommend to all conservatives. It's called "The Post" referring to the Washington Post, it's about how the women owner of the Washington Post along with the New York TImes won a freedom of speech case by the Supreme Court when the Nixon administration was threatenening to imprision the owners of the two papers for breaking the espionage law of the country. Both papers published the Pentagon Papers under tremendous pressure not to, but did anyway. This is before both papers became turncoats like they are today.

Another movie I didn't know existed but delighted to watch and people can spread the word about is "Shock and Awe". It's about a small newspaper in America called Knight Ridder that was the lone voice telling America that there was no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and that the narrative about such non-sense was fabricated lies by George W. Bush and Dick Cheney and other neocons. All the newspapers jumped on the bandwagon and reported the lie of Saddom would use them to create mushroom clouds in American cities--all except Knight Ridder of course. There is more F words in this movie however.

The thing I like about both movies is it vindicates us so-called conspiracy-theorists because they are movies in the public domain and can be verified as historical fact. Notice at the end of "Shock and Awe" where the New York TImes apologizes to their readership for printing the lie of there being weapons of mass destruction because of their inept journalism.

[Arm Chair Quarterback]

They’ve been abused by the institution as much as anyone else, and are often simply acting out of their own trauma response. We are generations into this problem, and much of the behavior we observe is simply conditioned responses.

Now, we’re all agents, and responsible for breaking the conditioning, so please don’t get me wrong and think I’m justifying the behaviors. But I think it would help a lot of people to understand we’re basically dealing with inter-generationally traumatized human beings who are mostly acting out of their fear regarding how they will be acted upon if they “step out of line”.

It’s a huge mess, and I don’t exactly know the way forward, but calling people Satanists is, I think, pretty clearly not the answer. Unless they’re actually Satanists, of course, which some may be. Then we should clearly document their Satanist beliefs and behaviors, and take appropriate action.

Do you think that any follower of Christ, LDS or not, that witnesses the evil behavior of the Bishop and Stake President, will believe that they are acting righteously? Do you think that any person of any religion that is not possessed by the devil will believe that a man should be kicked out for following the very scriptures that the leaders pretended to believe?

I don't think you are describing brainwashing. I think you are describing possession. Even a person that is brainwashed can see that the actions were wrong. Even Elizabeth Smart, as a child, in fear of her very life, and denied her identity when confronted by police. But even that brainwashing allowed her to see the light of truth and act accordingly. I doubt if the members of the ward were in fear of their lives. They may have been in fear of losing their salvation if they did not totally agree with what the Bishop said, even if it was pure evil, but ask them now, 5 months later, who was in the right.

People who are brianwashed can’t always “see that the actions were wrong.” I 100% believe certain aspects of the church were true. Now… I 100% believe they are blends of truth and falsehoods. One of the greatest weapons used by the church is the BoM. They ride the coat tails of Joseph and that Book, because it’s all they’ve got.

The challenge here is when people fixate on a single aspect of theology and don’t connect other principles. As we’ve probably all heard D&C 1:38 quoted by most church leaders, or Amos 3:7… Yes, the Lord does call prophets… but that doesn’t mean these mean are PSRs. Most leaders are bred and conditioned to be myopic, to cast aside logic (the light of Christ if you will) due to generational conditioning.

It’s hard to see Something when your job depends on you not seeing it.

[randyps]

The guy couldnt swallow his pride and just listen to what the church leaders were telling him to do. You dont have to obey, just listen, and then act accordingly to your free agency. If you dont want to mask-up then stay home and sit on the sidelines until things blow over. NOPE! he felt like he needed to tell the SP and Bishop what they should be doing, putting his membership in jeopardy for petty reasons.

cmon man, even my little league basketball coach recognized the problems and said "we have to many chiefs and not enough indians".

[Reluctant Watchman]

The guy couldnt swallow his pride and just listen to what the church leaders were telling him to do. You dont have to obey, just listen, and then act accordingly to your free agency. If you dont want to mask-up then stay home and sit on the sidelines until things blow over. NOPE! he felt like he needed to tell the SP and Bishop what they should be doing, putting his membership in jeopardy for petty reasons.

cmon man, even my little league basketball coach recognized the problems and said "we have to many chiefs and not enough indians".

I had to read your past posts to see if you were being sarcastic. I don’t think you were. “Couldn't swallow his pride”..? Really?! Just listen and then do what they tell you to do? Sounds exactly like what Satan proposed premortally.

The problem is we have men masquerading around as gods, who could care less about what the “Indians” think.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I can judge actions all day long, which is what I think you're referring to. I can also, by the Spirit discern the nature of a person. I just can't judge motive or history.

Like President Nelson. I know he's a wicked man, but I can't condemn him personally (I say personally because I also can't sustain him as leader of the Church) because I don't know why he acts the way he does. Final judgement is the Lord's.

Yes, we all make judgement every day, which just means we make decisions. Decisions about our beliefs, and who we choose to believe or not believe.

As far as motive or history… I think these can be judged to a certain degree. I say that because Christ taught us, “by their fruits ye shall know them.” Fruits are history. Motive, on the other hand is a bit more difficult. But.. even then, I can see that motives are gauged by fruits. Hiding $32B has the motive of greed. Preaching that you can “never lead astray” is prideful. They surely don’t agree w/ that, but that’s how I judge their motives.

Maybe it’s more about trust & patterns - like baseball - 3 strikes and out. If someone goofs once - maybe it was unintentional & they may still be trustworthy. But if they have a pattern of repeatedly “goofing” & not taking responsibility - then they ought not to be trusted.

And “no matter how thin you slice it, there are always 2 sides.” We are told to listen to profits & follow them - then the other side is to listen to distinguish false profits & NOT follow them. To make it more complicated, the falsity and truth are mixed - nobody’s 100% good nor 100% evil. We must judge - to CHOOSE right from wrong, good from evil - & sometimes it feels like looking for a needle in a haystack.

How many strikes are we up to now?

[Fred]

Here is something I wonder about…. Are members of his ward curious enough to even look at his video?

From my experience, the reaction of members varies greatly. Some are scared they’ll lose their own testimonies. Some don’t care at all, they “know what they know.” Some acknowledge the wrongs committed and don’t agree w/ the church, yet choose to stay to avoid the shame that comes when you question their idols *cough* I mean, leaders.

And some are hellbent on their traditions and have spent a lifetime defending their faith. To even suggest there are errors or false beliefs scares the sh•t out of them, to even think they’ve wasted a life following false prophets. The list of reasons goes on and on.

Since there are only two churches, Christ and satan, which church do you believe the LDS leadership are?

And if the members follow the leaders, which church do they belong to?

What do you call people that worship satan?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Since there are only two churches, Christ and satan, which church do you believe the LDS leadership are?

And if the members follow the leaders, which church do they belong to?

What do you call people that worship satan?

As we've discussed before, I believe there is significance in doing so intentionally vs unintentionally.

As far as the current leadership? The are sucking the teet of the whore, the church of the devil.