Kicked out of the club

[Reluctant Watchman]

I really enjoyed listening to this man’s story and can relate on many levels. His story of how his church leaders interacted w/ him is quite astonishing. Yet, I see this type of behavior become more and more common among LDS leadership. Their role is to “defend the good name of the Church” and not to defend Christ’s teachings:

[endlessQuestions]

Two words:

Institutional
Abuse

Learn them well.

[Fred]

It is clear that his Bishop and Stake President are both full blown satan worshipers. This is proof that the LDS church follows satan and not Jesus. The corporation actually kicked him out for following Christ.

All mask and jab promoters are full blown satanists. The church is not exempt.

The members of his ward are incredibly stupid. They should have praised him for following Christ instead of continuing to follow the satanic leaders.

The corporation has a membership rule. Follow the prophet or else. If you follow the scriptures, you will be excommunicated. We do not believe the scriptures as Isaiah tells lies about Drunkards of Ephraim and the Joseph Smith translation lies about current leaders. The new profit trumps all dead prophets. Burn your scriptures and follow Lucifer Nelson or else.

[Atrasado]

I was not surprised at the end to hear that this man was studying Isaiah (or Rob Smith). You simply can't accept the current leadership of the Church and Isaiah. The two are antithetical to each other. Funny to think, though, that we are commanded to study Isaiah by no less an authority than Jehovah Himself.

You couldn't be more meek and humble than this fellow, and yet they treated him like dirt. Christ would get excommunicated from this Church.

It makes me think of the Grand Inquisitor from The Brothers Karamazov. The Grand Inquisitor threw the Savior in prison and then visits Him. The Inquisitor proclaims that they are working with the adversary and that once they've gotten full control over everyone then they will plan man's happiness which he says can't happen yet because of agency. On a related note, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints doesn't really like agency so much anymore, do they?

At the end of that story, without a word, Christ walks to the Inquisitor and kisses Him. The man is stunned, lets Jesus go, and orders him to never come back again.

That's how we must treat them as they cast us out of their church. The man from the video is now a hero of mine and I hope I can be that courageous and humble. He was cast out of the Church for simply speaking scripture as if he believed it.

[Reluctant Watchman]

It is clear that his Bishop and Stake President are both full blown satan worshipers. This is proof that the LDS church follows satan and not Jesus. The corporation actually kicked him out for following Christ.

All mask and jab promoters are full blown satanists. The church is not exempt.

The members of his ward are incredibly stupid. They should have praised him for following Christ instead of continuing to follow the satanic leaders.

The corporation has a membership rule. Follow the prophet or else. If you follow the scriptures, you will be excommunicated. We do not believe the scriptures as Isaiah tells lies about Drunkards of Ephraim and the Joseph Smith translation lies about current leaders. The new profit trumps all dead prophets. Burn your scriptures and follow Lucifer Nelson or else.

Satanists… really? Not everyone who is deceived is a Luciferian. I was a TBM for the most part not long ago. I think many of us were deceived, but I wouldn’t call them all Satanists.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I was not surprised at the end to hear that this man was studying Isaiah (or Rob Smith). You simply can't accept the current leadership of the Church and Isaiah. The two are antithetical to each other. Funny to think, though, that we are commanded to study Isaiah by no less an authority than Jehovah Himself.

I read Rob’s book early on. It was realy helpful in my deconstruction process. He gets a little wordy and repetive at time, but I was grateful for many things he presented, even just on historical basis.

[Fred]

It is clear that his Bishop and Stake President are both full blown satan worshipers. This is proof that the LDS church follows satan and not Jesus. The corporation actually kicked him out for following Christ.

All mask and jab promoters are full blown satanists. The church is not exempt.

The members of his ward are incredibly stupid. They should have praised him for following Christ instead of continuing to follow the satanic leaders.

The corporation has a membership rule. Follow the prophet or else. If you follow the scriptures, you will be excommunicated. We do not believe the scriptures as Isaiah tells lies about Drunkards of Ephraim and the Joseph Smith translation lies about current leaders. The new profit trumps all dead prophets. Burn your scriptures and follow Lucifer Nelson or else.

Satanists… really? Not everyone who is deceived is a Luciferian. I was a TBM for the most part not long ago. I think many of us were deceived, but I wouldn’t call them all Satanists.

I said satanists, not because they were TBM, but because they refuse to follow Christ.

[Reluctant Watchman]

It is clear that his Bishop and Stake President are both full blown satan worshipers. This is proof that the LDS church follows satan and not Jesus. The corporation actually kicked him out for following Christ.

All mask and jab promoters are full blown satanists. The church is not exempt.

The members of his ward are incredibly stupid. They should have praised him for following Christ instead of continuing to follow the satanic leaders.

The corporation has a membership rule. Follow the prophet or else. If you follow the scriptures, you will be excommunicated. We do not believe the scriptures as Isaiah tells lies about Drunkards of Ephraim and the Joseph Smith translation lies about current leaders. The new profit trumps all dead prophets. Burn your scriptures and follow Lucifer Nelson or else.

Satanists… really? Not everyone who is deceived is a Luciferian. I was a TBM for the most part not long ago. I think many of us were deceived, but I wouldn’t call them all Satanists.

I said satanists, not because they were TBM, but because they refuse to follow Christ.

I can't judge their heart. To me, they are ignorant and blinded by church tradition. They'll follow their magnanimous Ieaders to the ends of the earth. Doesn't make it right, but it also doesn't necessarily show a willingness to serve Satan.

[Reluctant Watchman]

[Fred]

Satanists… really? Not everyone who is deceived is a Luciferian. I was a TBM for the most part not long ago. I think many of us were deceived, but I wouldn’t call them all Satanists.

I said satanists, not because they were TBM, but because they refuse to follow Christ.

I can't judge their heart. To me, they are ignorant and blinded by church tradition. They'll follow their magnanimous Ieaders to the ends of the earth. Doesn't make it right, but it also doesn't necessarily show a willingness to serve Satan.

Well, the guy that got kicked out was reading scripture. The Bishop and Stake President were not following the scriptures. The members of the ward have a choice to make. Follow the scriptures or follow the leaders. When they decided to follow the leaders, that is when they were actually following satan.

People are born with the light of Christ and can discern what is right from what is wrong. Jesus is big on freedom. He gave his life for it. For a Bishop or Stake President to make a mandate that removes freedom, that is based not on fact or science, or even God's word, but pure nonsense, is anti-Christ. The members chose anti-Christ over the scriptures. I think they deserve the title of satanists.

[endlessQuestions]

Satanists… really? Not everyone who is deceived is a Luciferian. I was a TBM for the most part not long ago. I think many of us were deceived, but I wouldn’t call them all Satanists.

I said satanists, not because they were TBM, but because they refuse to follow Christ.

I can't judge their heart. To me, they are ignorant and blinded by church tradition. They'll follow their magnanimous Ieaders to the ends of the earth. Doesn't make it right, but it also doesn't necessarily show a willingness to serve Satan.

They’ve been abused by the institution as much as anyone else, and are often simply acting out of their own trauma response. We are generations into this problem, and much of the behavior we observe is simply conditioned responses.

Now, we’re all agents, and responsible for breaking the conditioning, so please don’t get me wrong and think I’m justifying the behaviors. But I think it would help a lot of people to understand we’re basically dealing with inter-generationally traumatized human beings who are mostly acting out of their fear regarding how they will be acted upon if they “step out of line”.

It’s a huge mess, and I don’t exactly know the way forward, but calling people Satanists is, I think, pretty clearly not the answer. Unless they’re actually Satanists, of course, which some may be. Then we should clearly document their Satanist beliefs and behaviors, and take appropriate action.

[Chip]

I said satanists, not because they were TBM, but because they refuse to follow Christ.

I can't judge their heart. To me, they are ignorant and blinded by church tradition. They'll follow their magnanimous Ieaders to the ends of the earth. Doesn't make it right, but it also doesn't necessarily show a willingness to serve Satan.

They’ve been abused by the institution as much as anyone else, and are often simply acting out of their own trauma response. We are generations into this problem, and much of the behavior we observe is simply conditioned responses.

Now, we’re all agents, and responsible for breaking the conditioning, so please don’t get me wrong and think I’m justifying the behaviors. But I think it would help a lot of people to understand we’re basically dealing with inter-generationally traumatized human beings who are mostly acting out of their fear regarding how they will be acted upon if they “step out of line”.

It’s a huge mess, and I don’t exactly know the way forward, but calling people Satanists is, I think, pretty clearly not the answer. Unless they’re actually Satanists, of course, which some may be. Then we should clearly document their Satanist behaviors, and take appropriate action.

If people have no passion for the truth, they will be damned. 2 Thess 2:8-12.

How spiritually dead do leaders have to be to demand allegiance to the church while determinedly denying scripture?

This is hard ball being played.

It is true that there is a generational trauma problem in the church, but when you're in your fifties and choosing the arm of flesh and denying godliness, you're just an evil worm. In a suit. Vaxxed and boosted.

[Fred]

I said satanists, not because they were TBM, but because they refuse to follow Christ.

I can't judge their heart. To me, they are ignorant and blinded by church tradition. They'll follow their magnanimous Ieaders to the ends of the earth. Doesn't make it right, but it also doesn't necessarily show a willingness to serve Satan.

They’ve been abused by the institution as much as anyone else, and are often simply acting out of their own trauma response. We are generations into this problem, and much of the behavior we observe is simply conditioned responses.

Now, we’re all agents, and responsible for breaking the conditioning, so please don’t get me wrong and think I’m justifying the behaviors. But I think it would help a lot of people to understand we’re basically dealing with inter-generationally traumatized human beings who are mostly acting out of their fear regarding how they will be acted upon if they “step out of line”.

It’s a huge mess, and I don’t exactly know the way forward, but calling people Satanists is, I think, pretty clearly not the answer. Unless they’re actually Satanists, of course, which some may be. Then we should clearly document their Satanist beliefs and behaviors, and take appropriate action.

Do you think that any follower of Christ, LDS or not, that witnesses the evil behavior of the Bishop and Stake President, will believe that they are acting righteously? Do you think that any person of any religion that is not possessed by the devil will believe that a man should be kicked out for following the very scriptures that the leaders pretended to believe?

I don't think you are describing brainwashing. I think you are describing possession. Even a person that is brainwashed can see that the actions were wrong. Even Elizabeth Smart, as a child, in fear of her very life, and denied her identity when confronted by police. But even that brainwashing allowed her to see the light of truth and act accordingly. I doubt if the members of the ward were in fear of their lives. They may have been in fear of losing their salvation if they did not totally agree with what the Bishop said, even if it was pure evil, but ask them now, 5 months later, who was in the right.

[Atrasado]

I think Fred and EQ are both correct. In Isaiah 41 it reads,

22 Let them come forward and recount to us
their prophecies of events heretofore.
What were they? Tell us,
that we may examine them
and know whether they were fulfilled.
Or predict the future for us:
23 Tell us of events to come hereafter,
so that we may know you are gods.
Perform something good or evil
at which we will be dazzled and all stand in awe.
24 It is clear you are of no account,
that your works amount to nothing;
whoever accepts you is himself an abomination.

We know whose works will amount to nothing from D&C 101:51, so it appears that accepting these men is a grievous sin.

However, like many others, I was blinded by the false traditions of our Church and I struggled to get past that conditioning. So I try to think of those who feel I'm an apostate or an extremist as kindly as possible. Because my eyes are a little more open and they are blind I'm more accountable for how I treat them than they are for how they treat me. It's clear from our experience with Ed that they do not like being labeled as blind.

How do we get them to open their eyes? It seems to me that we don't. They have to decide to start accepting truth, no matter how painful, again. If they accept the things of the world like abortion, materialism, and LGTBQ+ agendas they probably won't open their eyes to the truth no matter what we say. We just need to stand or ground, but like this man in the video did, with meekness and humility (which I need to work on).

[cyclOps]

I said satanists, not because they were TBM, but because they refuse to follow Christ.

I can't judge their heart. To me, they are ignorant and blinded by church tradition. They'll follow their magnanimous Ieaders to the ends of the earth. Doesn't make it right, but it also doesn't necessarily show a willingness to serve Satan.

Well, the guy that got kicked out was reading scripture. The Bishop and Stake President were not following the scriptures. The members of the ward have a choice to make. Follow the scriptures or follow the leaders. When they decided to follow the leaders, that is when they were actually following satan.

People are born with the light of Christ and can discern what is right from what is wrong. Jesus is big on freedom. He gave his life for it. For a Bishop or Stake President to make a mandate that removes freedom, that is based not on fact or science, or even God's word, but pure nonsense, is anti-Christ. The members chose anti-Christ over the scriptures. I think they deserve the title of satanists.

Based on your logic, we’re all Satanists. We’re all imperfect. Thus, even the best of us make choices contrary to Christ.

[Fred]

I can't judge their heart. To me, they are ignorant and blinded by church tradition. They'll follow their magnanimous Ieaders to the ends of the earth. Doesn't make it right, but it also doesn't necessarily show a willingness to serve Satan.

Well, the guy that got kicked out was reading scripture. The Bishop and Stake President were not following the scriptures. The members of the ward have a choice to make. Follow the scriptures or follow the leaders. When they decided to follow the leaders, that is when they were actually following satan.

People are born with the light of Christ and can discern what is right from what is wrong. Jesus is big on freedom. He gave his life for it. For a Bishop or Stake President to make a mandate that removes freedom, that is based not on fact or science, or even God's word, but pure nonsense, is anti-Christ. The members chose anti-Christ over the scriptures. I think they deserve the title of satanists.

Based on your logic, we’re all Satanists. We’re all imperfect. Thus, even the best of us make choices contrary to Christ.

No. We all error in judgement. Typically, we know when we are sinning, but do it anyway.

The kicked out guy, stated his case. He explained why he did what he did. He did it because it was the right thing to do. Doing the right thing is not a sin. Kicking someone out that did not sin is a sin.

The congregation may not have known the true reason he was kicked out. But, if they did know, then it was a sin for them to continue following the Bishop or Stake President.

[Chip]

Well, the guy that got kicked out was reading scripture. The Bishop and Stake President were not following the scriptures. The members of the ward have a choice to make. Follow the scriptures or follow the leaders. When they decided to follow the leaders, that is when they were actually following satan.

People are born with the light of Christ and can discern what is right from what is wrong. Jesus is big on freedom. He gave his life for it. For a Bishop or Stake President to make a mandate that removes freedom, that is based not on fact or science, or even God's word, but pure nonsense, is anti-Christ. The members chose anti-Christ over the scriptures. I think they deserve the title of satanists.

Based on your logic, we’re all Satanists. We’re all imperfect. Thus, even the best of us make choices contrary to Christ.

No. We all error in judgement. Typically, we know when we are sinning, but do it anyway.

The kicked out guy, stated his case. He explained why he did what he did. He did it because it was the right thing to do. Doing the right thing is not a sin. Kicking someone out that did not sin is a sin.

The congregation may not have known the true reason he was kicked out. But, if they did know, then it was a sin for them to continue following the Bishop or Stake President.

Here is something I wonder about…. Are members of his ward curious enough to even look at his video?

[Fred]

Based on your logic, we’re all Satanists. We’re all imperfect. Thus, even the best of us make choices contrary to Christ.

No. We all error in judgement. Typically, we know when we are sinning, but do it anyway.

The kicked out guy, stated his case. He explained why he did what he did. He did it because it was the right thing to do. Doing the right thing is not a sin. Kicking someone out that did not sin is a sin.

The congregation may not have known the true reason he was kicked out. But, if they did know, then it was a sin for them to continue following the Bishop or Stake President.

Here is something I wonder about…. Are members of his ward curious enough to even look at his video?

Truth has a way of getting out. Some in the ward were his friends or his wife's friends and it is a safe bet they talked about it.

Every time I ever heard about someone getting disfellowshipped or excommunicated, it was the talk of the ward. Odds are pretty good that people heard his side of the story. Getting kicked out for following the scriptures is not a good reason. The only way anyone could agree with the Bishop and Stake President is if they think following the scriptures SHOULD get one kicked out.

I might could understand the morons that believe what the government and media say about masks and shots, but the scriptures are God talking.

[logonbump]

Based on your logic, we’re all Satanists. We’re all imperfect. Thus, even the best of us make choices contrary to Christ.

No. We all error in judgement. Typically, we know when we are sinning, but do it anyway.

The kicked out guy, stated his case. He explained why he did what he did. He did it because it was the right thing to do. Doing the right thing is not a sin. Kicking someone out that did not sin is a sin.

The congregation may not have known the true reason he was kicked out. But, if they did know, then it was a sin for them to continue following the Bishop or Stake President.

Here is something I wonder about…. Are members of his ward curious enough to even look at his video?

Doesn't matter. They're still asleep and under the cruel control of domineering leadership. He's already made the video available to the world. Share it with family and your LDS friends. Such a thoughtful, faithful father and brave Christian.

[Hiker]

An independent thinker!

He mentioned at the beginning that he does not watch television.

Those that don't watch television are dangerous!

[Niemand]

Some people make the wrong decisions for the right reasons. A lot of the people who promote masks and jags do so because they think they are protecting others from suffering. They don't all know that there are issues concerning the injections, or at least didn't.

I think the serious issue was when some more fanatical elements pushed the ideas of forced injections and even incarceration, and restrictions on where one could go. Many supporters of the masks and jabs baulked at these. Forced injections did happen – I know of a case in Scotland where a woman in psychiatric confinement was pinned down and given the Covid jag by force.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I said satanists, not because they were TBM, but because they refuse to follow Christ.

I can't judge their heart. To me, they are ignorant and blinded by church tradition. They'll follow their magnanimous Ieaders to the ends of the earth. Doesn't make it right, but it also doesn't necessarily show a willingness to serve Satan.

Well, the guy that got kicked out was reading scripture. The Bishop and Stake President were not following the scriptures. The members of the ward have a choice to make. Follow the scriptures or follow the leaders. When they decided to follow the leaders, that is when they were actually following satan.

People are born with the light of Christ and can discern what is right from what is wrong. Jesus is big on freedom. He gave his life for it. For a Bishop or Stake President to make a mandate that removes freedom, that is based not on fact or science, or even God's word, but pure nonsense, is anti-Christ. The members chose anti-Christ over the scriptures. I think they deserve the title of satanists.

I do see the distinction here. Are they following, unknowingly, a satanic agenda? Yes. They are idol worshipping. Are they full on “Satan worshippers”? Well…. Knowingly, no, I don’t think they are. They’ve been led astray by the craftiness of men and the philosophies of this world. I choose to believe there’s a difference.

According to your example, anyone who sins would be a Satan “worshipper”, but all that makes them is a sinner, which we all are to varying degrees.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I can't judge their heart. To me, they are ignorant and blinded by church tradition. They'll follow their magnanimous Ieaders to the ends of the earth. Doesn't make it right, but it also doesn't necessarily show a willingness to serve Satan.

They’ve been abused by the institution as much as anyone else, and are often simply acting out of their own trauma response. We are generations into this problem, and much of the behavior we observe is simply conditioned responses.

Now, we’re all agents, and responsible for breaking the conditioning, so please don’t get me wrong and think I’m justifying the behaviors. But I think it would help a lot of people to understand we’re basically dealing with inter-generationally traumatized human beings who are mostly acting out of their fear regarding how they will be acted upon if they “step out of line”.

It’s a huge mess, and I don’t exactly know the way forward, but calling people Satanists is, I think, pretty clearly not the answer. Unless they’re actually Satanists, of course, which some may be. Then we should clearly document their Satanist behaviors, and take appropriate action.

If people have no passion for the truth, they will be damned. 2 Thess 2:8-12.

How spiritually dead do leaders have to be to demand allegiance to the church while determinedly denying scripture?

This is hard ball being played.

It is true that there is a generational trauma problem in the church, but when you're in your fifties and choosing the arm of flesh and denying godliness, you're just an evil worm. In a suit. Vaxxed and boosted.

I think God has far more compassion. I don’t judge my parents because they chose to check all the LDS boxes and pay and incorrect tithe their entire lives. I don’t judge them for “sustaining” their leaders in order to enter the temple, nor for elevating the temple the way they did. There was truth in ALL of these things, yet mingled w/ the philosophies of men. They were doing their best, yet still in error. And I myself, and grateful for the experience of being raised “Mormon.”

[Reluctant Watchman]

I can't judge their heart. To me, they are ignorant and blinded by church tradition. They'll follow their magnanimous Ieaders to the ends of the earth. Doesn't make it right, but it also doesn't necessarily show a willingness to serve Satan.

They’ve been abused by the institution as much as anyone else, and are often simply acting out of their own trauma response. We are generations into this problem, and much of the behavior we observe is simply conditioned responses.

Now, we’re all agents, and responsible for breaking the conditioning, so please don’t get me wrong and think I’m justifying the behaviors. But I think it would help a lot of people to understand we’re basically dealing with inter-generationally traumatized human beings who are mostly acting out of their fear regarding how they will be acted upon if they “step out of line”.

It’s a huge mess, and I don’t exactly know the way forward, but calling people Satanists is, I think, pretty clearly not the answer. Unless they’re actually Satanists, of course, which some may be. Then we should clearly document their Satanist beliefs and behaviors, and take appropriate action.

Do you think that any follower of Christ, LDS or not, that witnesses the evil behavior of the Bishop and Stake President, will believe that they are acting righteously? Do you think that any person of any religion that is not possessed by the devil will believe that a man should be kicked out for following the very scriptures that the leaders pretended to believe?

I don't think you are describing brainwashing. I think you are describing possession. Even a person that is brainwashed can see that the actions were wrong. Even Elizabeth Smart, as a child, in fear of her very life, and denied her identity when confronted by police. But even that brainwashing allowed her to see the light of truth and act accordingly. I doubt if the members of the ward were in fear of their lives. They may have been in fear of losing their salvation if they did not totally agree with what the Bishop said, even if it was pure evil, but ask them now, 5 months later, who was in the right.

People who are brianwashed can’t always “see that the actions were wrong.” I 100% believe certain aspects of the church were true. Now… I 100% believe they are blends of truth and falsehoods. One of the greatest weapons used by the church is the BoM. They ride the coat tails of Joseph and that Book, because it’s all they’ve got.

The challenge here is when people fixate on a single aspect of theology and don’t connect other principles. As we’ve probably all heard D&C 1:38 quoted by most church leaders, or Amos 3:7… Yes, the Lord does call prophets… but that doesn’t mean these mean are PSRs. Most leaders are bred and conditioned to be myopic, to cast aside logic (the light of Christ if you will) due to generational conditioning.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Here is something I wonder about…. Are members of his ward curious enough to even look at his video?

From my experience, the reaction of members varies greatly. Some are scared they’ll lose their own testimonies. Some don’t care at all, they “know what they know.” Some acknowledge the wrongs committed and don’t agree w/ the church, yet choose to stay to avoid the shame that comes when you question their idols *cough* I mean, leaders.

And some are hellbent on their traditions and have spent a lifetime defending their faith. To even suggest there are errors or false beliefs scares the sh•t out of them, to even think they’ve wasted a life following false prophets. The list of reasons goes on and on.