LDS Freedom Forum

Seed Starter wrote: ↑March 17th, 2023, 12:31 am

spiritMan wrote: ↑March 16th, 2023, 10:36 pm

Seed Starter wrote: ↑March 16th, 2023, 5:18 pm Name-calling is a crutch when you have nothing left or when you can't control emotion.

In general I agree, but empirically speaking name-calling is EXTREMELY effective when used properly. Call someone a "racist" and that is a extremely effective. Now it is getting overplayed so it has been losing it's effectiveness.

Even Christ name-called. Name-calling is a tactic and it's one that Christ used. The appropriateness of name-calling is actually in the intent rather than the tactic. And it can be extremely, extremely effective.

And this is exactly why Christianity is dying in the West; an unwillingness to use the full use of all the weapons God has given b/c the Western view of Christ is just false. The modern view of Christ is this rainbow, unicorns, cotton-candy, "just love everyone and always say nice things".

I see your point. If someone is a racist I will call them that. I guess I was referring to more subjective name-calling. It's hard to prove someone is a (insert swear) word. Labeling someone as a liar when you can show they lied is quite different from dropping f bombs and expecting results. Calling evil evil is not something I would shy away from. I think it's obvious when a debate of ideas stops being a debate of ideas. I mostly agree with you. My goal here is to listen to ideas and hopefully have some of mine considered and even adopted. I don't think I even have a chance with some people. I don't want to let my attitude keep anyone from the truth. I think some people feel entitled to have their ideas respected and even adopted.

blitzinstripes wrote: ↑March 15th, 2023, 6:23 pm I didn't see any personal attacks on Ed. I saw Ed start a debate, lose it quite handily, and become very irate and start lashing out defensively when he had no rebuttal. At which point several of us expressed genuine concern, as he seemed to be acting differently. He was left with Christian assurance of God's love, the nobleness of the quest for truth, testimonies of Christ and the scriptures, and pledges of support. I challenge anyone to go back and read the exchanges and say differently.

Original_Intent wrote: ↑March 15th, 2023, 7:28 pm 3. Frankly, Ed don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya, I hope you get the help you need, and I hope your return is of a kinder, gentler Ed.

edgoble123 wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 5:03 pm

Original_Intent wrote: ↑March 15th, 2023, 7:28 pm 3. Frankly, Ed don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya, I hope you get the help you need, and I hope your return is of a kinder, gentler Ed.

Wow. I don't need help from anyone, and after that remark, I consider you no longer any kind of ally, but basically yet another enemy. Welcome to that club. Maybe you ought to remove yourself from my facebook forum.

blitzinstripes wrote: ↑March 17th, 2023, 7:36 am anyone willing enough to engage in debate better have thick enough skin to take it when you lose an argument or are called out.

edgoble123 wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 5:12 pm forget it. I now know where the lines are drawn here.

Hosh wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:28 pm I hope everyone on this forum understands that from this point forward, anyone who disagrees with me, does not view things from my perspective, or does not agree with my interperetation of the scriptures, is henceforth and forvever, my enemy. That being said, if I ever post any scripture without any context, I hope your hearts will be pricked to believe all the things that I do so you can have the spirit manifest in your life the way it does in mine so that you can treat others on this forum the way I treat them.

Hosh wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:28 pm I hope everyone on this forum understands that from this point forward, anyone who disagrees with me, does not view things from my perspective, or does not agree with my interperetation of the scriptures, is henceforth and forvever, my enemy. That being said, if I ever post any scripture without any context, I hope your hearts will be pricked to believe all the things that I do so you can have the spirit manifest in your life the way it does in mine so that you can treat others on this forum the way I treat them.

Cruiserdude wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:31 pm You may consider me an enemy but I PROMISE YOU, I have only love for you... as well as for all of my brothers and sisters.... (I understand the point you were making, you made it well)

edgoble123 wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:39 pm

Cruiserdude wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:31 pm You may consider me an enemy but I PROMISE YOU, I have only love for you... as well as for all of my brothers and sisters.... (I understand the point you were making, you made it well)

So, the provocation was done well. Ok. cool.

Hosh wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:28 pm I hope everyone on this forum understands that from this point forward, anyone who disagrees with me, does not view things from my perspective, or does not agree with my interperetation of the scriptures, is henceforth and forvever, my enemy. That being said, if I ever post any scripture without any context, I hope your hearts will be pricked to believe all the things that I do so you can have the spirit manifest in your life the way it does in mine so that you can treat others on this forum the way I treat them.

Cruiserdude wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:48 pm I don't think he really considers anyone here an enemy....

Hosh wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:28 pm I hope everyone on this forum understands that from this point forward, anyone who disagrees with me, does not view things from my perspective, or does not agree with my interperetation of the scriptures, is henceforth and forvever, my enemy. That being said, if I ever post any scripture without any context, I hope your hearts will be pricked to believe all the things that I do so you can have the spirit manifest in your life the way it does in mine so that you can treat others on this forum the way I treat them.

TheDuke wrote: ↑March 15th, 2023, 6:44 pm

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑March 15th, 2023, 6:30 pm
Examples?

I have provided many examples on other threads, some just a few days ago. I'm not going to dig them out. What your asking for is another example of getting after people. The comments should be "what would you consider a personal attack?" That would be on topic bringing up old posts that bore no fruit but hate responses doesn't help. So, I will give a couple of examples.

1. calling someone a name, at least a derogatory one.
2. responding to a topic by attacking a persons attributes. not their opinion but they personal attributes.
3. making false claims about someone. not the accidental misunderstanding but claiming something they have not said.
4. extrapolating something from what they said. Like you said you don't believe BY lied therefore you must believe he was a perfect individual.
5. making appropriate leaps of logic. Like one person says we don't know what happened but the person disappeared and your respond the person was raped, murdered and hidden for SRA reasons. By taking logical leaps and bounds that the person did not put in their statements or axioms.
6. Just plain calling a person a liar without any justification.
7. Making claims about a persons situation or background or qualifications w/o any justification and off topic.
8. changing the topic. Like one would say, I'm married and the response would involve polygamy or issues about gay marriage that have nothing to do with the topic.
9. Saying a person is stupid, dumb, ignorant, etc... because they expressed their faith (usually in some LDS leader or policy or something).
10. Responding to a discussion with pages of inane scriptures, out of context, that may or may not mean something to you but on their own, pasted in just add nothing to the context.
11. Like 10 but just repeating some scripture like Jacob on polygamy and then saying every other scriptural reference is wrong (Abraham, Jacob, Ruth, David, Solomon). Etc. We can take any one verse and say anything as has been shown.
12. repeatedly taking the same verse out of context. perhaps the topic is the value of tithing and the discussion becomes one of Ensign Peak or where you're money goes. Wrong topic.

Do you want more? I would be happy if there was a place for just these few rules.

edgoble123 wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:52 pm

Cruiserdude wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:48 pm I don't think he really considers anyone here an enemy....

You would be surprised about who I consider an enemy. I consider practically this whole environment adversarial now.
Brian, I think about now would be a nice time to ask to have my profile deleted. Thank you.

This would remove the temptation to come back.

edgoble123 wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:48 pm

Hosh wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:28 pm I hope everyone on this forum understands that from this point forward, anyone who disagrees with me, does not view things from my perspective, or does not agree with my interperetation of the scriptures, is henceforth and forvever, my enemy. That being said, if I ever post any scripture without any context, I hope your hearts will be pricked to believe all the things that I do so you can have the spirit manifest in your life the way it does in mine so that you can treat others on this forum the way I treat them.

Ok. Let's address the provocation.
This person chooses to take everything I say out of context, and provoke me with it, using sarcasm.

Brian, and the mods of course will do nothing to deal with this provocation, because, of course, they agree with the provocation. And IWriteStuff will just laugh at the provocation.

People that provoke me are my enemies. People that have chosen to treat me adversely are my enemies.
Just because people that disagree with me disagree with me does not make them my enemies.
OriginalIntent insulted me. He is my enemy.
Brian chose to deal with the situation unjustly, and I cannot count on him. He is effectively, my enemy.

I don't care if you agree with my interpretations of the scriptures. If you choose to provoke me and continue to be adverse to me, you are my enemy.

If you choose to take my words and twist them, and be adverse to me, and make fun of my words and make light of what has happened to me, you are my enemy.

If you treat me adversely and have provoked me to anger, and you made light of it, you are my enemy.

In short, if you were adversarial to me, you are now my enemy. If you want me to treat you well, you will not act adversely to me. Clearly, I cannot post anything here you people disagree with, or you will attack me. When you attack me, and project stuff on to me adversely, and then you offer your help for what you project on to me, then you have insulted me, and you are my enemy. Its not hard to see how you have made yourselves my enemies. Because you have been adversarial to me, and therefore, you who have been adversarial to me are my enemies.

Cruiserdude wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:59 pm It sucks, and I'm sorry things have gone down the way they did.
I can certainly understand why you might feel the way you do.

Hosh wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 7:00 pm Ed you called me a jerkwad in my initial interaction with you when all I did was disagree with how you were going about in your interactions with others. I never called you any names. I never bullied you. And yet you lashed out at me. Even so, I would never consider you an enemy. I just disagree whole heartedly with your views on the church and your disproportionate anger toward others.