LDS Freedom Forum

Chip wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 8:24 am I feel the same way as expressed in the original post.

It seems to me that things would instantly become Zion-like if the wicked would just drop dead, already. I am talking about all those who stymie truth, support evil, and have authority fetishes. We have all heard from them and we have made countless attempts to get them to acknowledge even the simplest of truths, but they fight all efforts. They love lies more than life. They are legion and all around us. They are intransigent. I see no change of heart coming from them, only further calcification. There is no remaining business left between them and us, it seems.

Is this self-righteousness? I am just worn out by them. Drained. What a relief it would be to just be around truthfull people.

John Tavner wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 8:37 am

Chip wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 8:24 am I feel the same way as expressed in the original post.

It seems to me that things would instantly become Zion-like if the wicked would just drop dead, already. I am talking about all those who stymie truth, support evil, and have authority fetishes. We have all heard from them and we have made countless attempts to get them to acknowledge even the simplest of truths, but they fight all efforts. They love lies more than life. They are legion and all around us. They are intransigent. I see no change of heart coming from them, only further calcification. There is no remaining business left between them and us, it seems.

Is this self-righteousness? I am just worn out by them. Drained. What a relief it would be to just be around truthfull people.

I don't think it wold be zion like. Most of us have wrong thinking and perceptions. We think too much like the way that seems right to a man, which leads to death. What we can control is our belief of Jesus though, we can control how we react and perceive the world. That control is contingent upon us submitting to the Lord and giving up all that we think is right and embracing what He is in us. Belief is necessary, trust in necessary. Most of our despair comes from us not trusting God. Do we beleive Him? Do we believe His word? Do we believe He has a plan? Have we joined ourselves to His kingdom? If we haven't, we ought to and know that even if we think we aren't a part of His Kingdom, He sent HIS Son so we could be, and what He requires is taht we begin to believe it despite our weaknesses. When we accept we are in His kingdom through belief, then as our Lord, HE can govern us and guide us and transform us into His image, but if we constant run away and claim unworthiness to be in His Kingdom, then we reject His Lordship over our souls and will struggle with being transformed. God is good, and God will establish His Kingdom, the question is whether or not we let Him- first in Us, and then through us, to the world. Trust is the key, trust and submission to Him to let go of what we think is right in our own eyes and see Him and His character and what is right in His eyes. He will guide us, He will help us and He will transform us as we yield and let Him, We must be willing to join His kingdom and believe Jesus opened the gate, and all we can do is trust and walk towards it, beleiving God will accept us and He will. And we continue on that path and we will receive Life, know the Way, and know Truth.

Momma J wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 8:42 am Yet, I know that any major action made by me would be swept under the rugs by medias that are complicit in pushing the lies of the evil of TPTB.

Chip wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 8:53 am

John Tavner wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 8:37 am

Chip wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 8:24 am I feel the same way as expressed in the original post.

It seems to me that things would instantly become Zion-like if the wicked would just drop dead, already. I am talking about all those who stymie truth, support evil, and have authority fetishes. We have all heard from them and we have made countless attempts to get them to acknowledge even the simplest of truths, but they fight all efforts. They love lies more than life. They are legion and all around us. They are intransigent. I see no change of heart coming from them, only further calcification. There is no remaining business left between them and us, it seems.

Is this self-righteousness? I am just worn out by them. Drained. What a relief it would be to just be around truthfull people.

I don't think it wold be zion like. Most of us have wrong thinking and perceptions. We think too much like the way that seems right to a man, which leads to death. What we can control is our belief of Jesus though, we can control how we react and perceive the world. That control is contingent upon us submitting to the Lord and giving up all that we think is right and embracing what He is in us. Belief is necessary, trust in necessary. Most of our despair comes from us not trusting God. Do we beleive Him? Do we believe His word? Do we believe He has a plan? Have we joined ourselves to His kingdom? If we haven't, we ought to and know that even if we think we aren't a part of His Kingdom, He sent HIS Son so we could be, and what He requires is taht we begin to believe it despite our weaknesses. When we accept we are in His kingdom through belief, then as our Lord, HE can govern us and guide us and transform us into His image, but if we constant run away and claim unworthiness to be in His Kingdom, then we reject His Lordship over our souls and will struggle with being transformed. God is good, and God will establish His Kingdom, the question is whether or not we let Him- first in Us, and then through us, to the world. Trust is the key, trust and submission to Him to let go of what we think is right in our own eyes and see Him and His character and what is right in His eyes. He will guide us, He will help us and He will transform us as we yield and let Him, We must be willing to join His kingdom and believe Jesus opened the gate, and all we can do is trust and walk towards it, beleiving God will accept us and He will. And we continue on that path and we will receive Life, know the Way, and know Truth.

The end of the world IS the destruction of the wicked.There's a reason it needs to happen.

Meanwhile, I am frustrated by what's afoot. I think I trust and yield to God, but maybe I'm not getting it by a longshot.

JohnnyL wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 9:33 am I believe there is much, much more work for us to do, in all three areas: perfecting the Saints, saving the dead, missionary work=gathering Israel!

We have, especially recently, been encouraged to get involved in politics.

We have been invited to support good causes, with time and money. Many groups persuade Congress for our rights and are always looking for time and money. Many political office campaigns, especially at the city, county, and district levels, could really use that help.
I'm sure Defending Utah wouldn't mind donations.

Maybe start with the 3 P's talk, and move forward from there?

JK4Woods wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 10:21 am I think a large percentage of us believers in the Lord are stymied in joining the fight. For a variety of reasons.

Mostly, because soldiers anywhere need a front lines and an identifiable enemy with which to focus their intentions, and bring up their courage.

Soldiers of the faith especially so.

To get out of the foxhole and charge the machine gun, a soldier has to have utmost confidence in their previous training, personal confidence in their own abilities, and a solid unwavering feeling of committed back up and reinforcements from their commanders.

Plus knowledge and confidence of the support structures, especially first aid, medical/wound treatment, and support after action.

(None of which the church corporation demonstrates).

Therefore, it is almost assured we who gather our personal courage to climb out of the foxhole and attempt to battle evil forces, are almost assured to be deeply wounded, and likely put out of action, (in more ways than one).

From this comes trauma, and unbelievable dismay that the organization to whom we belong, and supposedly are fighting for, (with righteousness on our side), have not only let us down, but seemingly abandoned us by their intransigence.

Remember in all war, it’s not the generals who were in place that win it, it’s an entirely new crop of generals brought up from within the ranks, after terrible experience fighting the enemy on the front lines.

The issue is, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has no one who has directly fought the enemy. (Cloistered in 47 East South Temple, and cushy social life up in Federal Heights and Bountiful Bench only produces “arm-chair” generals).

So while many of us are ready to join the fight. We have no leaders worthy of our efforts, or an enemy identified to go against.

Losing Prop 8 in California, and not doubling down, has basically allowed the enemy to push us to the beaches of Dunkirk.

Now we have folded in every regard, trying appeasement as a strategy and tactic to beat a superior army..?!?

Yes the Legions of Angels are awaiting the command to sweep out of heaven and reinforce those Saints fighting for the Lord.

But we gotta be fighting.
Right now we have waay to many generals and way to few soldiers in the field.

So, ours is a game of patience. Waiting to be called up and put into battle, but our generals are comfy in their red chairs, and hold tightly the reins down thru the chain of command, that no one wants to make a move.

Meanwhile, the enemy is alive and well, and seemingly gaining strength and adherents with every passing generation…

tmac wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 10:45 am Meanwhile, it’s not a matter of our generals (and leadership on down the ranks) not fighting the enemy — they are in bed with the enemy. They have capitulated to the enemy and rolled out the red carpet. They are not leading in any way, shape or form. They are following . . . the World, in lockstep, and fully encouraging their own followers to just fall-in behind.

Meanwhile, confusion reigns, and those who can actually see this seem to have a hard time agreeing and uniting on much of anything, so nothing else seems to gain much traction and critical mass. In the mass confusion, all most people can seem to do is focus on what they disagree about rather than what they might be able to agree about.

tmac wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 10:45 am Meanwhile, it’s not just a matter of our generals (and leadership on down the ranks) not standing up and leading a fight against the enemy — they are in bed with the enemy. They have capitulated to the enemy and rolled out the red carpet. At this point they are not actually leading in any way, shape or form. They are just following . . . the World, in lockstep, and fully encouraging their own followers to just fall-in behind.

Meanwhile, confusion reigns, and those who can actually see what is really going on seem to have a hard time agreeing and uniting on much of anything, so nothing else seems to gain much traction and/or critical mass. In the mass confusion, all most people can seem to do is focus on what they disagree about rather than what they might be able to agree, and do something about.

Chip wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 11:13 am
Really, what else is there to do?

tmac wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 11:22 am

Chip wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 11:13 am
Really, what else is there to do?

Repent. That is the most important thing we can do. And if we don’t really think we need to, it is only because we don’t even know what we don’t know.

Original_Intent wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 10:24 am

JohnnyL wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 9:33 am I believe there is much, much more work for us to do, in all three areas: perfecting the Saints, saving the dead, missionary work=gathering Israel!

We have, especially recently, been encouraged to get involved in politics.

We have been invited to support good causes, with time and money. Many groups persuade Congress for our rights and are always looking for time and money. Many political office campaigns, especially at the city, county, and district levels, could really use that help.
I'm sure Defending Utah wouldn't mind donations.

Maybe start with the 3 P's talk, and move forward from there?

Connor Boyack's Libertas Institute in Lehi is also very worthy of donations. I've been highly impressed with Connor ever since I first met him many years ago long before Libertas or before he wrote any of his books. I think he got up and spoke at a GOP caucus (not a scheduled speaker, just another guy speaking his mind). Anyways.

Just the OP and most of the comments is a very good hopeful sign - I love the mindset being expressed here.

I do think we have the foundational principles that we need, but I agree with what many are saying it is hard to know how to implement it with so many who will vote in opposition. Seems like a calling out has to happen, and I BELIEVE that calling out will be one-by-one by the spirit, not over the pulpit at Sacrament meeting or General Conference.

I do think somehow that we need to return to the idea of the school of the prophets. I feel that was done away with to establish a more Babylon-ish hierarchal organization. We should all be learning to be prophets and prophetesses, I have been working on the idea of some kind of round table organization, and honestly LDSFF serves the purpose pretty well. The goal for everyone should be preparation to meet with the Father and the Son, God willing. And I believe God wills it.

I disagree really with only one post in this thread, the one about building Zion is not about building it in your neighborhood. I agree that there will be a separation and an establishment of a physical Zion. But before Zion, there must be a Zion people, and that is only going to happen at the individual level, then the family, and then spreading it as possible within your circle of influence. It's not dramatic or easy. We want things to be like a story or a movie where right when hope seems lost that suddenly all is made right and the good guys win. It may unfold that way, but we have still got to be ready for that moment and have our own errors of ideas corrected, otherwise we too will burn with the chaff.

I am very grateful to the OP and the many great responses - I needed to hear the voices of my brothers and sisters yearning for Zion.