What does it take to be the Lord's anointed?

[ransomme]

Like I said, he was quoting from 2 Peter That whole chapter explains how to partake of Divine nature- It explains exactly what I said. Joseph revealed nothing new. The Book of Mormon revealed nothing new. The Holy Ghost is how one begins to partake and are anointed then they grow up into hte full stature of Christ. THe "sealing" power is a creation of man - it is just when one is aligned with God they do as HE would do- it isn't somethign special- it is becoming ONE with God. All Joseph did was throw some large words around it and make it more emotional. Trust in Jesus. Trials build our trust in Him, we grow in Him so when those things do happen, we aren't moved and we are supported. God doesn't always give us the power to remove the trials, but HE give sus the power to remain in them sustained- because we believe and are continually doing as Peter said- which is relying on Chrsit unto Salvation, growing in this knowledge of Salvation nad redemption.

Do you believe you existed as spirit in heaven before you came to earth and took to the flesh?

I don't think it matters - our purpose is what we are to become, not what we were. God told us what we were to become. God told us what we were created to be. God said we were to be formed in is image. To manifest Him. Jesus said "follow me" to show we are to live a life like Him. To put that in perspective, if I were to define myself by my past, I would be damned for eternity. Our past does not and should not define us ever- God transforms us- I cant live my life as if I "was with God and now I'm not" I need to live my life as "I am with God because He sent His Spirit upon me and anointed me to bear His name and I am His child adopted through the blood of Jesus." That said according to scripture God knew us before we were placed in the womb- that means we existed before we were conceived.

Jeremiah 1:5“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you.
Compare that with Matt 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
We can not live by what we were, but who we are to be and who God says we are to be.

He came to redeem us (restore us) So, we must be "Born again" My new Identity is in and through Christ. He has told me what I am and what I am to be. The past doesn't matter- it doesn't define me, who God says I am and what Christ says I am defines me and where I am going and I am to take to the Spirit

We are not formed in his image. We are formed after His likeness. Image of different, it's not a quality, it's a status. We are created to image Him, to be His agents, His messengers. In case you don't understand I'll expound just a little. Christ is the ultimate messenger, the Word (perfect embodiment/example of following God's counsel, full of His authority, bearer of His name, etc) of God. We are to receive the Spirit so we can become messengers, and speak with the tongue of angels, and be an extension of our Lord and Savior Jesus the Messiah as his epistles. I'm happy to share the verses of the references if you need those too.

You need to live your life as if you were with God and need to return to Him. I wouldn't dismiss the value of that so easily.

"He came to redeem us"
That does not mean to restore us. We are Jesus' slaves. He bought us. He redeemed, aka bought us from bondage. We are His. It is the Truth in Jesus that sets us free.

Romans 6
But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you have your benefit, leading to sanctification, and the end, eternal life.

2 Corinthians 4
5 For we do not preach ourselves but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your slaves for the sake of Jesus.

1 Corinthians 6
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

1 Corinthians 6:20
For you were bought with a price:




1 Corinthians 6
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

[John Tavner]

Do you believe you existed as spirit in heaven before you came to earth and took to the flesh?

I don't think it matters - our purpose is what we are to become, not what we were. God told us what we were to become. God told us what we were created to be. God said we were to be formed in is image. To manifest Him. Jesus said "follow me" to show we are to live a life like Him. To put that in perspective, if I were to define myself by my past, I would be damned for eternity. Our past does not and should not define us ever- God transforms us- I cant live my life as if I "was with God and now I'm not" I need to live my life as "I am with God because He sent His Spirit upon me and anointed me to bear His name and I am His child adopted through the blood of Jesus." That said according to scripture God knew us before we were placed in the womb- that means we existed before we were conceived.

Jeremiah 1:5“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you.
Compare that with Matt 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
We can not live by what we were, but who we are to be and who God says we are to be.

He came to redeem us (restore us) So, we must be "Born again" My new Identity is in and through Christ. He has told me what I am and what I am to be. The past doesn't matter- it doesn't define me, who God says I am and what Christ says I am defines me and where I am going and I am to take to the Spirit

We are not formed in his image. We are formed after His likeness. Image of different, it's not a quality, it's a status. We are created to image Him, to be His agents, His messengers. In case you don't understand I'll expound just a little. Christ is the ultimate messenger, the Word (perfect embodiment/example of following God's counsel, full of His authority, bearer of His name, etc) of God. We are to receive the Spirit so we can become messengers, and speak with the tongue of angels, and be an extension of our Lord and Savior Jesus the Messiah as his epistles. I'm happy to share the verses of the references if you need those too.

You need to live your life as if you were with God and need to return to Him. I wouldn't dismiss the value of that so easily.

"He came to redeem us"
That does not mean to restore us. We are Jesus' slaves. He bought us. He redeemed, aka bought us from bondage. We are His. It is the Truth in Jesus that sets us free.

Romans 6
But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you have your benefit, leading to sanctification, and the end, eternal life.

2 Corinthians 4
5 For we do not preach ourselves but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your slaves for the sake of Jesus.

1 Corinthians 6
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

1 Corinthians 6:20
For you were bought with a price:




1 Corinthians 6
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

Col 1: 15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Look up the word Redeem. It means restore. To Return back to original value.

SLave means chained to God - we are His.

The Blood is what purchased us from death by our belief.

We are the temple of GOd, meaning we are supposed ot "deny ourselves, pick up our cross daily and follow HIm" We are to yield to the Spirit and not the natural man. Glorify means to manifest or show the value of who God really is to the world.

The Spirit is what transform us- it is why we must be "born again"

John 14: 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Matt 28: 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

[nightlight]

All you're doing is making accusations with no actual substance, - not inviting, not even try to show me how I'm scripturally wrong - . If that makes you feel better, then go for it, feel free to continue making your accusations and I sincerely mean that, if you aren't finished, feel free to continue. The fact of the matter is that in the end if you (general) aren't teaching truth and bringing people to Christ by living a life in Him all you're doing is exactly what I'm saying "you have knowledge, but it doesn't make you look like Him." Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. "these are they who wiill say in the last day "Lord Lord have we not done many miracles and wonderful works in your name and the Lord will say "depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you." You did a lot of things that looked good but you still didn't know me. LIke JOhn said. He who says He loves God, but hates His brother is a liar. The sad part is here is an example of some of the confusion that book creates, this is from a FB group where people claim to follow the Lord and His Doctrine I quote " I agree I feel nothing from the other scriptures. Too altered" This because of scripture that talks about plain and precious truths being taken out- Only the BoM apparently has truth. This is rampant. This attitude builds up even more so for those that often leave the church - the think everything is wrong so they become agnostic or false atheists.

So for all the "extra" knowledge Mormon's claim to have, they sure live lives in a hellish landscape ... always wondering if they will "measure up" or be "worthy of God's love." Seems their extra "knowledge" isn't helping them at all. They act the same way any non-believer acts- act the same way other non-mormon supposed believers act. I see no difference. You can say I don't know God, by saying I am "offended" but your words don't judge me, God does and I thank God that He is my judge and I am free. You think it is pacifism, I am just believing the words that tell me "not to be angry with my brother" to "turn the other cheek" "if someone sues for you cloak give them you coat also" "if someone compels you to walk a mile witht them, walk with them twain" By their fruits ye shall know them - it's why I pray for them and attend church with them, because I want them to know Jesus and He is amazing an I have seen people repent and receive forgiveness of their sins, being made whole, actually seing who they are in God's sight, without needing to teach them a single thing about their "pre-mortal existence" They just need to know that God made them with purpose and the proof of that is that Christ came and gave His life for them when they didn't even know Him and could not have cared less about God. So, brother, bless you and while I think you're deceived in your perception of God because of the "way that seems right to a man" I believe God will still work in you and continue to transform you into His image as you continue to submit and yield to Him, because that is who God sees in you, is a Son and Son who looks like "THE Son" because of His grace and mercy and His love for you. So have a blessed night. Here are some scripture reasons as to why I believe the way I do. If i take a misstep, I run to God receive His mercy and grow in grace and become more transformed and made more mature in Him.


1 Peter 2: 21For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for you, LEAVING YOU AN EXAMPLE, that YOU SHOULD FOLLOW in His footsteps:

22“He committed no sin,

and NO deceit was found in His mouth.”

23When they heaped abuse on Him,

HE DID NOT RETALIATE;

when He suffered, He made no threats,

but ENTRUSTED HIMSELf TO HIM WHO JUDGES JUSTLY.

24He Himself bore our sins

in His body on the tree,

so that we might DIE TO SIN

and live to righteousness.

“By His stripes you are healed.”i

25For “you were like sheep going astray,”j but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.


I'm looking at the fruits of those who claim to have so much more and calim it is necessary jbknowledge... I guess to salvation or something... The fruits don't look good and we've had almost 200 years. The good fruits I see are those who give their lives to Christ and submit to Him (both in and out of hte church) it isn't fruit of believing the BoM. I see lots of temples and ancestral worship (see 1 Tim 1:3) I see lots of abuse from leadership. I see people who are "doing" things because they are afraid of going to hell. I see the poor and the widowed and orphans abused and their faces ground into the dust. And my heart cries out to God- and still I have hope for them and all men because God has declared hope through His Son and God doesn't change.

1 Cor 8: 2The one who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3But the one who loves God is known by God.

1 Tim 1: 3As I urged you on my departure to Macedonia, you should stay on at Ephesus to instruct certain men not to teach false doctrines 4or devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculation rather than the stewardship of God’s work, which is by faith. 5The goal of our instruction is the love that comes from a pure heart, a clear conscience, and a sincere faith. This is the goal of all instruction. How can you have faith if you're always wondering what God is gonna do- will he won't he. It is why scripture says this is a yes and amen gospel all promises are that way with God (2 cor 1:20) How can I be not conformed to the world if I don't even know who God is because one minute He is killing people and the next saving them, how can I Pray in faith know His will? Romans 12:2 2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.

As a final point, when Jesus went to the MT. of Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah were there - representing hte Law and the PRophets. God the Father said to them and hte Apostles "HEAR HIM" meaning Jesus. All is subject to Him- the true meaning is from Christ and His life of how we are to live. He was the living epistle of God in the flesh. Col 1: 15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. and we are to put on that image Col 3: 9Do not lie to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices, 1and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, or free, but Christ is all and is in all

God is love 1 John 4
1 Cor 13 if ye have not love ye are nothing (describes love).

Lol yes, because it's just me doing the accusing and assuming

Pacifism breeds passive aggression. You're a grown man, shrug that sh!t off.

No aggression towards people, but ideas. 2 Cor 10:4The weapons of our warfare are not the weapons of the world. Instead, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5We tear down arguments and every presumption set up against the knowledge of God; and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. People are destroyed for lack of knowledge of God if you want to save people it isn't the sword, it is the knowledge of God. You are welcome to try and plant the seed as Alma says- see if it bears good fruit, buth the purpose isn't "pacifism" that is where you get what I'm saying is wrong, the purpose is love. It is seeing more in the person that they see in themselves and despite their actions knowing they can know God more. That often times the way they react is because of traditions or lack of understanding. It doesn't make them "lost" It is "not loving your own life, even unto death., but loving God and man with the heart of God" It is the hope for them, it is what Christ did for us on the cross- through hte First Adam man fell and became sensual full of hate and self seeking, but through the Last Adam, all men might be lifted back up and restored by belief on His name redeemed by His blood.. Blessings to you brother

You speak against The Book of Mormon.

That's what it comes down to.

You're not tearing down any argument.....lol You're not even making an argument except for "what the book of Mormon says doesn't matter"

You're hiding behind platitudes and abstracts

And I'm not making accusations against you, you are doing these things

What you do it's what all passive aggressive LDS do. You create a strawman who is a failure and apply it to the person you're talking to , but in a indirect way.

It's not how men should speak

Say what you mean, don't be shy. Don't hide behind Corinthians and Paul

[John Tavner]

Lol yes, because it's just me doing the accusing and assuming

Pacifism breeds passive aggression. You're a grown man, shrug that sh!t off.

No aggression towards people, but ideas. 2 Cor 10:4The weapons of our warfare are not the weapons of the world. Instead, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5We tear down arguments and every presumption set up against the knowledge of God; and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. People are destroyed for lack of knowledge of God if you want to save people it isn't the sword, it is the knowledge of God. You are welcome to try and plant the seed as Alma says- see if it bears good fruit, buth the purpose isn't "pacifism" that is where you get what I'm saying is wrong, the purpose is love. It is seeing more in the person that they see in themselves and despite their actions knowing they can know God more. That often times the way they react is because of traditions or lack of understanding. It doesn't make them "lost" It is "not loving your own life, even unto death., but loving God and man with the heart of God" It is the hope for them, it is what Christ did for us on the cross- through hte First Adam man fell and became sensual full of hate and self seeking, but through the Last Adam, all men might be lifted back up and restored by belief on His name redeemed by His blood.. Blessings to you brother

You speak against The Book of Mormon.

That's what it comes down to.

You're not tearing down any argument.....lol You're not even making an argument except for "what the book of Mormon says doesn't matter"

You're hiding behind platitudes and abstracts

And I'm not making accusations against you, you are doing these things

What you do it's what all passive aggressive LDS do. You create a strawman who is a failure and apply it to the person you're talking to , but in a indirect way.

It's not how men should speak

Say what you mean, don't be shy. Don't hide behind Corinthians and Paul

I don't speak out against it. I disagree with some things in it or the way it is interpreted modernly. I don't think it is what people claim it is- I am agnostic towards it. It could be true it might not be, what does not conform to the previous word of God, I reject. I use it when needful- the fruits though of those who claim it is true and "embrace" it and say they get closer to God by it than any thing else is this : Polygamy, lying, pride, being lifted up in the world. That isn't a condition of the book per se, but it shows that having knowledge doesn't make you better or help you know God. Christ said there will be many from the East and West who will sit with Abraham and eat and the children of Abraham will be in hell.

I'm not saying anyone is a failure. THat's your interpretation. I'm saying our perceptions are wrong, the way we interpret things are wrong - I'm saying Christ is a better way, He is THE WAY, rather than us always relying on our flesh and what "seems right to a man" I'm saying htere is more for us and it is time we cast off the flesh and the way that seems "right" to a man and put on Christ.

I use scripture as backing for what I say.

Does it matter if you have all the knowledge in teh world, but aren't love? Are you nothing? Yes or no? Does it matter if you ahve faith to move ALL mountains, but are not love? Yes or no?

Here I will use Moroni- whom you say you believe. "If Ye have not charity, ye are nothing" Moroni 7:46

Moroni 7:47 But charity is the pure love of Christ, and it endureth forever; and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him.

48 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen.

[Luke]

I don't speak out against it. I disagree with some things in it or the way it is interpreted modernly. I don't think it is what people claim it is- I am agnostic towards it. It could be true it might now be, what does not conform to the previous word of God, I reject. I use it when needful.

This approach to religion is simply nonsense. You can’t just write off entire sections you don’t like.

[John Tavner]

I don't speak out against it. I disagree with some things in it or the way it is interpreted modernly. I don't think it is what people claim it is- I am agnostic towards it. It could be true it might now be, what does not conform to the previous word of God, I reject. I use it when needful.

This approach to religion is simply nonsense. You can’t just write off entire sections you don’t like.

I never said it was my approach to religion. I said in regards to this book. If it doesn't fit the character of God it isn't true. I will search for ways in how it fits- sometimes it isn't worth the effort because I don't need to spend hours (like I did before) explaining and discovering what "saved after all you can do means" when I can just read the New Testament and it makes it pretty clear.

[Luke]

I don't speak out against it. I disagree with some things in it or the way it is interpreted modernly. I don't think it is what people claim it is- I am agnostic towards it. It could be true it might now be, what does not conform to the previous word of God, I reject. I use it when needful.

This approach to religion is simply nonsense. You can’t just write off entire sections you don’t like.

I never said it was my approach to religion. I said in regards to this book. If it doesn't fit the character of God it isn't true. I will search for ways in how it fits- sometimes it isn't worth the effort because I don't need to spend hours (like I did before) explaining and discovering what "saved after all you can do means" when I can just read the New Testament and it makes it pretty clear.

Does God not fight battles?

Nothing wrong with spending hours discovering pearls of wisdom (even though in that case, you really don’t).

[John Tavner]

This approach to religion is simply nonsense. You can’t just write off entire sections you don’t like.

I never said it was my approach to religion. I said in regards to this book. If it doesn't fit the character of God it isn't true. I will search for ways in how it fits- sometimes it isn't worth the effort because I don't need to spend hours (like I did before) explaining and discovering what "saved after all you can do means" when I can just read the New Testament and it makes it pretty clear.

Does God not fight battles?

Nothing wrong with spending hours discovering pearls of wisdom (even though in that case, you really don’t).

I don't understand your first question- like the context? he already overcame the battle. God won.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with discovering pearls of wisdom. I spend hours seeking pearls of wisdom - much of it in the New Testament now, some in the old. I'm saying I shouldn't have to work hours to prove truths that are clear in other books in a book that is supposed to be the most correct book. What Is most important though is us embracing and becoming the nature of God- the knowledge we gain, if not set on a sure foundation of Christ will lead to destruction because we will read it wrong, understand it wrong and apply it wrong. He really is the Truth, the Way, and the The Life we will see through our flesh rather than the Spirit and it is easy to look through the yes of flesh. Our traditions often mess with all of us and have often taught us to see that way.

[nightlight]

No aggression towards people, but ideas. 2 Cor 10:4The weapons of our warfare are not the weapons of the world. Instead, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5We tear down arguments and every presumption set up against the knowledge of God; and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. People are destroyed for lack of knowledge of God if you want to save people it isn't the sword, it is the knowledge of God. You are welcome to try and plant the seed as Alma says- see if it bears good fruit, buth the purpose isn't "pacifism" that is where you get what I'm saying is wrong, the purpose is love. It is seeing more in the person that they see in themselves and despite their actions knowing they can know God more. That often times the way they react is because of traditions or lack of understanding. It doesn't make them "lost" It is "not loving your own life, even unto death., but loving God and man with the heart of God" It is the hope for them, it is what Christ did for us on the cross- through hte First Adam man fell and became sensual full of hate and self seeking, but through the Last Adam, all men might be lifted back up and restored by belief on His name redeemed by His blood.. Blessings to you brother

You speak against The Book of Mormon.

That's what it comes down to.

You're not tearing down any argument.....lol You're not even making an argument except for "what the book of Mormon says doesn't matter"

You're hiding behind platitudes and abstracts

And I'm not making accusations against you, you are doing these things

What you do it's what all passive aggressive LDS do. You create a strawman who is a failure and apply it to the person you're talking to , but in a indirect way.

It's not how men should speak

Say what you mean, don't be shy. Don't hide behind Corinthians and Paul

I don't speak out against it. I disagree with some things in it or the way it is interpreted modernly. I don't think it is what people claim it is- I am agnostic towards it. It could be true it might not be, what does not conform to the previous word of God, I reject. I use it when needful- the fruits though of those who claim it is true and "embrace" it and say they get closer to God by it than any thing else is this : Polygamy, lying, pride, being lifted up in the world. That isn't a condition of the book per se, but it shows that having knowledge doesn't make you better or help you know God. Christ said there will be many from the East and West who will sit with Abraham and eat and the children of Abraham will be in hell.

I'm not saying anyone is a failure. THat's your interpretation. I'm saying our perceptions are wrong, the way we interpret things are wrong - I'm saying Christ is a better way, He is THE WAY, rather than us always relying on our flesh and what "seems right to a man" I'm saying htere is more for us and it is time we cast off the flesh and the way that seems "right" to a man and put on Christ.

I use scripture as backing for what I say.

Does it matter if you have all the knowledge in teh world, but aren't love? Are you nothing? Yes or no? Does it matter if you ahve faith to move ALL mountains, but are not love? Yes or no?

Here I will use Moroni- whom you say you believe. "If Ye have not charity, ye are nothing" Moroni 7:46

Moroni 7:47 But charity is the pure love of Christ, and it endureth forever; and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him.

48 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen.

You're doing it again

You create a strawman who lacks love, and then indirectly apply it to me.

You wouldn't even bring any of that up if you didn't think it was relevant to the conversation

A conversation about a book I believe in and you don't

As if someone who believes in this Book is, by default, deceived about the true nature of God



John , you don't know me.

I would never presume to know the way you love God and His children based upon you believing or not believing the Book of Mormon.

If it's not about the Book of Mormon, then speak plainly about what flaw you see in me instead of this strange roundabout way you come at people

I believe this is a difference between the way we talk to each other. I literally speak freely with you... I don't dissemble when talking to you

[John Tavner]

You speak against The Book of Mormon.

That's what it comes down to.

You're not tearing down any argument.....lol You're not even making an argument except for "what the book of Mormon says doesn't matter"

You're hiding behind platitudes and abstracts

And I'm not making accusations against you, you are doing these things

What you do it's what all passive aggressive LDS do. You create a strawman who is a failure and apply it to the person you're talking to , but in a indirect way.

It's not how men should speak

Say what you mean, don't be shy. Don't hide behind Corinthians and Paul

I don't speak out against it. I disagree with some things in it or the way it is interpreted modernly. I don't think it is what people claim it is- I am agnostic towards it. It could be true it might not be, what does not conform to the previous word of God, I reject. I use it when needful- the fruits though of those who claim it is true and "embrace" it and say they get closer to God by it than any thing else is this : Polygamy, lying, pride, being lifted up in the world. That isn't a condition of the book per se, but it shows that having knowledge doesn't make you better or help you know God. Christ said there will be many from the East and West who will sit with Abraham and eat and the children of Abraham will be in hell.

I'm not saying anyone is a failure. THat's your interpretation. I'm saying our perceptions are wrong, the way we interpret things are wrong - I'm saying Christ is a better way, He is THE WAY, rather than us always relying on our flesh and what "seems right to a man" I'm saying htere is more for us and it is time we cast off the flesh and the way that seems "right" to a man and put on Christ.

I use scripture as backing for what I say.

Does it matter if you have all the knowledge in teh world, but aren't love? Are you nothing? Yes or no? Does it matter if you ahve faith to move ALL mountains, but are not love? Yes or no?

Here I will use Moroni- whom you say you believe. "If Ye have not charity, ye are nothing" Moroni 7:46

Moroni 7:47 But charity is the pure love of Christ, and it endureth forever; and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him.

48 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen.

You're doing it again

You create a strawman who lacks love, and then indirectly apply it to me.

You wouldn't even bring any of that up if you didn't think it was relevant to the conversation

A conversation about a book I believe in and you don't

As if someone who believes in this Book is, by default, deceived about the true nature of God



John , you don't know me.

I would never presume to know the way you love God and His children based upon you believing or not believing the Book of Mormon.

If it's not about the Book of Mormon, then speak plainly about what flaw you see in me instead of this strange roundabout way you come at people

I believe this is a difference between the way we talk to each other. I literally speak freely with you... I don't dissemble when talking to you

I'm not though. You are reading into that. I'm stating it as a fact it wasn't intended as a bludgeon to you. If I wanted to say it was you I was describing, I would say it. For me to do what you are saying would make me no better than what I am preaching against- even worse because I would be using the words of Christ as some sort of weapon to accuse rather than to lift up and build and strengthen, I would be a massive hypocrite, ones who Jesus' called out often and unless I repented i would have weeping and gnashing of teeth in the last day. I'm saying what I find in general- most people don't have it. Or if they did they aren't maintaining it or seeking after it with all the energy of their heart. That is the most important thing- How can I know? Because they are self-seeking, they take account for all their suffered wrongs, they don't have long -suffering. Stop applying things to yourself unless they apply to you. I will straight up tell you if I THink you have NO love in your life. I don't know you, so I am not saying anyting to you. I do know that you ahve made accusations about me, but people do that all the time. We all get things wrong. Do I think you can improve ABSOLUTELY, do I think I can improve and grow in it too, ABSOLUTELY -if we don't have it we are nothing. There are absolutely times in my life when I become self-focused, so I realign myself with God, maturing and growing in Him- as I yield, that thing literally does not bother many any more. I have grown through grace to another level.

This whole time you think I've been speaking about you in passive aggressive terms and that isn't even in my mind or heart. I'm stating what I have seen and experienced. If it applies to you, then it does, but I am not mentioning it to "describe" you or to be "passive aggressive" towards you. Don't take offense where none is intended and even if it were intended, that just makes me foolish.

To put into perspective my ENTIRE point is that knowledge is not as essential as knowing God and becoming love. KNOWING things does not save you. That is the point I"m driving across. KNOWING you were with God before this life does not save you. Believing in Christ saves you, becoming like Him is the demonstration of that salvation and grace. You can have all the knowledge in the world (and when I say YOU I Mean in general I'm not specifically calling YOU out - just so we are clear and that has been the case with most of hte stuff I've written, so I apologize for failing to communicate that clearly if that is part of what made you think I was being passive aggressive) and it can puff you up if you don't have love, it can draw you away from God and make you miss the entire point of why Christ came. So IT doesn't matter if you KNOW everything but aren't becoming like Him growing up into the full stature of Christ, yielding and submitting/ knowing God/becoming love/charity. Can little tidbits help, absolutely, but believing in the Lord and trusting His word and continually being transformed is what is essential.

In regards to deception. You can be deceived about the nature of God from the Bible- it isn't JUST the Book of Mormon, there are things in there that I believe explain beautifully the nature of God (in the BoM), but other things do not jive with other scripture or at least the reading on the face doesn't. We are all deceived in someway. 2 Nephi 28: 14 they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men. Too much precepts of men has poisoned our minds and only turning to God continually being renewed will remove those strongholds.

[TheChristian]

"What does it take to be the Lords anointed"

Whenever a man or a woman, no matter whom they may be, wether their station in life be of the very lowest, if they arise and declare that Jesus is Lord to a crowd wether they be hostile or friendly, at that moment in time that man or woman is the Lords anionted.........
I have witnessed such events, never to be forgotten when men I knew that oft stuttered and stumbled over the most basic of words, yet when the occasion arose and there was a great need for a witness to Christ, such lowly stuttering men sprang to life, were filled with a boldness and a clarity of flowing speech that was not of their own power but the very power of the spirit of God and out of their mouths flowed an eloquence and inspiration that defied description, apon them fell a mantel of gentle but powerfull Authority as they declared Christ Jesus, Him crucified and Him rising from the dead.
Hard hearts were softened as they spoke, unbelief in Jesus gave way to belief, folks deep in sin were convicted of their sin, whilst the righteous amongst them rejoiced along with the Angels of heaven that souls were being saved....

And so whom is the Lords Anointed?........ It is any man or woman that will happily bear record that Jesus of Nazerath is Lord.

“Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
I tell you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will also confess him before the angels of God." Amen.

[ransomme]

I don't think it matters - our purpose is what we are to become, not what we were. God told us what we were to become. God told us what we were created to be. God said we were to be formed in is image. To manifest Him. Jesus said "follow me" to show we are to live a life like Him. To put that in perspective, if I were to define myself by my past, I would be damned for eternity. Our past does not and should not define us ever- God transforms us- I cant live my life as if I "was with God and now I'm not" I need to live my life as "I am with God because He sent His Spirit upon me and anointed me to bear His name and I am His child adopted through the blood of Jesus." That said according to scripture God knew us before we were placed in the womb- that means we existed before we were conceived.

Jeremiah 1:5“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you.
Compare that with Matt 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
We can not live by what we were, but who we are to be and who God says we are to be.

He came to redeem us (restore us) So, we must be "Born again" My new Identity is in and through Christ. He has told me what I am and what I am to be. The past doesn't matter- it doesn't define me, who God says I am and what Christ says I am defines me and where I am going and I am to take to the Spirit

We are not formed in his image. We are formed after His likeness. Image of different, it's not a quality, it's a status. We are created to image Him, to be His agents, His messengers. In case you don't understand I'll expound just a little. Christ is the ultimate messenger, the Word (perfect embodiment/example of following God's counsel, full of His authority, bearer of His name, etc) of God. We are to receive the Spirit so we can become messengers, and speak with the tongue of angels, and be an extension of our Lord and Savior Jesus the Messiah as his epistles. I'm happy to share the verses of the references if you need those too.

You need to live your life as if you were with God and need to return to Him. I wouldn't dismiss the value of that so easily.

"He came to redeem us"
That does not mean to restore us. We are Jesus' slaves. He bought us. He redeemed, aka bought us from bondage. We are His. It is the Truth in Jesus that sets us free.

Romans 6
But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you have your benefit, leading to sanctification, and the end, eternal life.

2 Corinthians 4
5 For we do not preach ourselves but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your slaves for the sake of Jesus.

1 Corinthians 6
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

1 Corinthians 6:20
For you were bought with a price:




1 Corinthians 6
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

Col 1: 15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Look up the word Redeem. It means restore. To Return back to original value.

SLave means chained to God - we are His.

The Blood is what purchased us from death by our belief.

We are the temple of GOd, meaning we are supposed ot "deny ourselves, pick up our cross daily and follow HIm" We are to yield to the Spirit and not the natural man. Glorify means to manifest or show the value of who God really is to the world.

The Spirit is what transform us- it is why we must be "born again"

John 14: 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Matt 28: 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Firstly, I'm saying everything with brotherly kindness...

* maybe it's just me, and correct me if I am wrong. It seems to me that you respond to things with a measure of force. Quite aggressively. It, kind of, seems like you talk down to people as if you think that they don't know anything. Pro-tip, not every blog post is a full treatise on a given subject or the breadth of one's understanding of a subject. My suggestion is to ask more questions and invite sharing (I do these same things too sometimes, so beam in my eye).

* As sure as you are about some things, because you don't lack confidence or conviction, you still err at times. To err is human, to forgive is divine.

One example here, is you err in your meaning of redeem/redemption, as seen here: https://biblehub.com/dictionary/r/redeem.htm
Cliff notes, it means to PURCHASE, RANSOM, LIBERATE, or RESCUE especially from bondage/captivity; 7. (v. t.) To pay the penalty of; to make amends for; to serve as an equivalent or offset for; to atone for; to compensate; as, to redeem an error.

Another is your take on our bodies being temples. These verses are so straightforward and hard to misinterpret for the most part:
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. - 1 Corinthians 6

Another example is how you are defining the word image. Just citing verses with the keyword image doesn't help very much. Imaging God is really simple though. Take a look at this, it is a good primer to see what imaging God means.

[ransomme]

Like I said, he was quoting from 2 Peter That whole chapter explains how to partake of Divine nature- It explains exactly what I said. Joseph revealed nothing new. The Book of Mormon revealed nothing new. The Holy Ghost is how one begins to partake and are anointed then they grow up into hte full stature of Christ. THe "sealing" power is a creation of man - it is just when one is aligned with God they do as HE would do- it isn't somethign special- it is becoming ONE with God. All Joseph did was throw some large words around it and make it more emotional. Trust in Jesus. Trials build our trust in Him, we grow in Him so when those things do happen, we aren't moved and we are supported. God doesn't always give us the power to remove the trials, but HE give sus the power to remain in them sustained- because we believe and are continually doing as Peter said- which is relying on Chrsit unto Salvation, growing in this knowledge of Salvation nad redemption.

Go back to the beginning, you are more or less saying what I already had hinted at. I merely put this out in question form for expediency (I was on my phone at work) and to give food for thought.

Was Joseph not saying this?
The anointing and sealing is to be called, (and then one needs to be) elected, and (finally that election needs to be) made sure.

A type of growing from grace to grace?

If you are referring to what the modern CoJCoLDS calls the sealing power then I agree. But it is more than just being aligned with God's will. It is God sharing His authority with someone because He has become one with God to a degree that God may entrust them with such honor. It is having one's calling and election made sure. At that point, the only other path is to become a son of Perdition. That is to become Firstborn, a member of the Church of the Firstborn, Zion.

Halaman 10:3-10
3 ...a voice came unto him saying:
4 Blessed art thou, Nephi, for those things which thou hast done; for I have beheld how thou hast with unwearyingness declared the word, which I have given unto thee, unto this people. And thou hast not feared them, and hast not sought thine own life, but hast sought my will, and to keep my commandments.
5 And now, because thou hast done this with such unwearyingness, behold, I will bless thee forever; and I will make thee mighty in word and in deed, in faith and in works; yea, even that all things shall be done unto thee according to thy word, for thou shalt not ask that which is contrary to my will.
6 Behold, thou art Nephi, and I am God. Behold, I declare it unto thee in the presence of mine angels, that ye shall have power over this people, and shall smite the earth with famine, and with pestilence, and destruction, according to the wickedness of this people.
7 Behold, I give unto you power, that whatsoever ye shall seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven; and thus shall ye have power among this people.
8 And thus, if ye shall say unto this temple it shall be rent in twain, it shall be done.
9 And if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou cast down and become smooth, it shall be done.
10 And behold, if ye shall say that God shall smite this people, it shall come to pass.

THe "sealing" power is a creation of man - it is just when one is aligned with God they do as HE would do- it isn't somethign special- it is becoming ONE with God.

The Lord says in a different way, the same thing as Peter:
D&C 58 (2 Peter 1:1-11)
26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.
27 Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;
28 For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.

It's always good to think!

D&C 58 if it can be believed is simply this," you can't do things to please the Lord, you have to become what He has declared you already are, through His Son, and then He is pleased"

Furthermore, Hel 10 the part everyone focuses on is talking more about faith, rather than becoming one with God- God says He will give Him faith to do those things. What God says to him before and the why is that sought the Lord's will and kept His commandments and He did it not because it was a burden, but because He wanted to, I'm not a big fan of how that is written out (in the scripture because people think it was because He declared the word without being weary, but that isn't hte reason). So Nephi is given faith, and God knows that He will "seek His will and Keep His commandments"

God isn't "entrusting" anyone with the "honor" it is that we are living up to that which God desired for us in the beginning. God doesn't need to "learn how to trust us" He knows our hearts, He knows what we are going to do. Nephi just did what Peter said.
We get too caught up in the experience and think the experience is what "makes a person" It isn't the experience it is the perspective and submission to God- His grace does that to us so we have the Image of God. All that Christ did is what God wants us to do- the way He lived His life is what GOd wants us to do. To bear our cross, to deny ourselves, to take no account for suffered wrongs, to love people and bless them. God already declared His sermon through His Son which was "follow me" and "the things ye have seen me do ye shall do also." What we lack is faith and that is because we rarely commune with God and let HIm transform us- the world speaks louder than truth and most of our perceptions in life are determined by the world and not the Word of God.

Another Edit: In short the "authority" is from our relationship with God - it jsut means we know HIm and trust Him and have let Him work in us. It isn't a moment in time - in order to develop relationship with God you don't "seek after sealing power" you seek after God. When you know Him more (God is love and we can not say we know Him if we hate our brother, because if we do we are a liar - 1 John) then you trust more, you grow in faith, you become love you manifest Christ because you are the light of hte world as He told us to be. Anointing is receiving the HOly Ghost. It is that simple. Once we receive we are to continue to grow up into Him, into the full stature of Christ- the full measure and know His love which surpasses all understanding. The anointing is what allows you to even get there. It is God changing you and saying " now grow up into what I've anointed you to be, a Christ-like one, for that is my image"

I guess part of my thing is (and I"m not saying this because you are doing it) but we spend so much time seeking after signs and wonders that we are missing the point- which is to become like The Lord, through submission and yielding, denying ourselves, picking up our cross daily and following Him i.e becoming the manifesation of God in the flesh i.e. Love- and not as the world defines it, but God, so that way we become living epistles of God in the flesh to glorify Him and manifest His love to others so they too can know God.

Sorry, but no. Look to the patterns in the scriptures. In particular pay attention to the principle of the firstborn. How many firstborn end up with the birthright? Look what happens to all those who try to take the birthright for themselves.

We do not earn honors, they may only be given to us by grace. Even Jesus the Messiah asked praying: "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. (John 17:5). As you seem to understand already, it is only through submission (a broken heart and contrite spirit) that we may obtain all that the Father has.
*Edit - adding that reading Ephesians and adds much to this conversation.

Highlights
Chapter 3
7 I became a servant of this gospel according to the gift of God's grace that was given to me by the exercise of his power.
8 To me - less than the least of all the saints - this grace was given, to proclaim to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ
9 and to enlighten everyone about God's secret plan - a secret that has been hidden for ages in God who has created all things.

Chapter 4
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Therefore it says, "When he ascended on high he captured captives; he gave gifts to men."
9 Now what is the meaning of "he ascended," except that he also descended to the lower regions, namely, the earth?
10 He, the very one who descended, is also the one who ascended above all the heavens, in order to fill all things.
11 It was he who gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, that is, to build up the body of Christ,
13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God - a mature person, attaining to the measure of Christ's full stature.

It is important to know from whence we came (premortal existence with the Father of our spirits) and to where we are going (the promise land, Zion) (I don't understand your reluctance to answer such questions, and the ease with which you dismiss their value). If you don't understand your origins, you won't understand your inheritance. If you don't understand your inheritance your aim won't be as precise as it could and should. Also to the same degree to which one lacks understanding of these things, they will miss out on understand God

I would add to what you said about authority. We receive authority by fulfilling the patterns. Jesus was the perfect pattern, the Way, the Truth and the Life. As you and that Peter guy preach, we must partake in the divine. To me this is why the priesthood is called the Holy Priesthood, after the Order (pattern) of the Son of God. To paraphrase Neal A. Maxwell, 'we must translate Gospel principles into (godliness) improved personal character and behavior.'. I think the stories and patterns in the scriptures are clear that God bestows his authority on us and without an Atoner and companionship of the Holy Ghost our priesthood / authority is nothing.

And I agree whole-heartedly with your sentiments here:

we spend so much time seeking after signs and wonders that we are missing the point- which is to become like The Lord, through submission and yielding, denying ourselves, picking up our cross daily and following Him i.e becoming the manifesation of God in the flesh i.e. Love- and not as the world defines it, but God, so that way we become living epistles of God in the flesh to glorify Him and manifest His love to others so they too can know God.

[Luke]

In regards to deception. You can be deceived about the nature of God from the Bible- it isn't JUST the Book of Mormon

No!! False!!

Now according to you we can’t even trust the Bible.

This is just sad.

[ransomme]

"What does it take to be the Lords anointed"

Whenever a man or a woman, no matter whom they may be, wether their station in life be of the very lowest, if they arise and declare that Jesus is Lord to a crowd wether they be hostile or friendly, at that moment in time that man or woman is the Lords anionted.........
I have witnessed such events, never to be forgotten when men I knew that oft stuttered and stumbled over the most basic of words, yet when the occasion arose and there was a great need for a witness to Christ, such lowly stuttering men sprang to life, were filled with a boldness and a clarity of flowing speech that was not of their own power but the very power of the spirit of God and out of their mouths flowed an eloquence and inspiration that defied description, apon them fell a mantel of gentle but powerfull Authority as they declared Christ Jesus, Him crucified and Him rising from the dead.
Hard hearts were softened as they spoke, unbelief in Jesus gave way to belief, folks deep in sin were convicted of their sin, whilst the righteous amongst them rejoiced along with the Angels of heaven that souls were being saved....

And so whom is the Lords Anointed?........ It is any man or woman that will happily bear record that Jesus of Nazerath is Lord.

“Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
I tell you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will also confess him before the angels of God." Amen.

This is the pattern. I love manifestations of the Spirit, I hope to witness them in greater abundance.

Thinking on your words here, perhaps something that we are missing is differentiating more clearly a distinction between being anointed and having that anointing sealed by the Holy Ghost, by God.

People are "anointed" by the Spirit whenever the show forth the fruits and gifts of the Spirit.

But this is different than being LORD'S anointed. Having our washings and anointings sealed, with His name on it foreheads.

Something like this?

[John Tavner]

In regards to deception. You can be deceived about the nature of God from the Bible- it isn't JUST the Book of Mormon

No!! False!!

Now according to you we can’t even trust the Bible.

This is just sad.

You read my intent wrong. What I was saying is someone can read the Bible and not seek to know God and get the wrong impression of who God is. 2 Peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,

[John Tavner]

Go back to the beginning, you are more or less saying what I already had hinted at. I merely put this out in question form for expediency (I was on my phone at work) and to give food for thought.



If you are referring to what the modern CoJCoLDS calls the sealing power then I agree. But it is more than just being aligned with God's will. It is God sharing His authority with someone because He has become one with God to a degree that God may entrust them with such honor. It is having one's calling and election made sure. At that point, the only other path is to become a son of Perdition. That is to become Firstborn, a member of the Church of the Firstborn, Zion.

Halaman 10:3-10
3 ...a voice came unto him saying:
4 Blessed art thou, Nephi, for those things which thou hast done; for I have beheld how thou hast with unwearyingness declared the word, which I have given unto thee, unto this people. And thou hast not feared them, and hast not sought thine own life, but hast sought my will, and to keep my commandments.
5 And now, because thou hast done this with such unwearyingness, behold, I will bless thee forever; and I will make thee mighty in word and in deed, in faith and in works; yea, even that all things shall be done unto thee according to thy word, for thou shalt not ask that which is contrary to my will.
6 Behold, thou art Nephi, and I am God. Behold, I declare it unto thee in the presence of mine angels, that ye shall have power over this people, and shall smite the earth with famine, and with pestilence, and destruction, according to the wickedness of this people.
7 Behold, I give unto you power, that whatsoever ye shall seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven; and thus shall ye have power among this people.
8 And thus, if ye shall say unto this temple it shall be rent in twain, it shall be done.
9 And if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou cast down and become smooth, it shall be done.
10 And behold, if ye shall say that God shall smite this people, it shall come to pass.




The Lord says in a different way, the same thing as Peter:
D&C 58 (2 Peter 1:1-11)
26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.
27 Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;
28 For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.

It's always good to think!

D&C 58 if it can be believed is simply this," you can't do things to please the Lord, you have to become what He has declared you already are, through His Son, and then He is pleased"

Furthermore, Hel 10 the part everyone focuses on is talking more about faith, rather than becoming one with God- God says He will give Him faith to do those things. What God says to him before and the why is that sought the Lord's will and kept His commandments and He did it not because it was a burden, but because He wanted to, I'm not a big fan of how that is written out (in the scripture because people think it was because He declared the word without being weary, but that isn't hte reason). So Nephi is given faith, and God knows that He will "seek His will and Keep His commandments"

God isn't "entrusting" anyone with the "honor" it is that we are living up to that which God desired for us in the beginning. God doesn't need to "learn how to trust us" He knows our hearts, He knows what we are going to do. Nephi just did what Peter said.
We get too caught up in the experience and think the experience is what "makes a person" It isn't the experience it is the perspective and submission to God- His grace does that to us so we have the Image of God. All that Christ did is what God wants us to do- the way He lived His life is what GOd wants us to do. To bear our cross, to deny ourselves, to take no account for suffered wrongs, to love people and bless them. God already declared His sermon through His Son which was "follow me" and "the things ye have seen me do ye shall do also." What we lack is faith and that is because we rarely commune with God and let HIm transform us- the world speaks louder than truth and most of our perceptions in life are determined by the world and not the Word of God.

Another Edit: In short the "authority" is from our relationship with God - it jsut means we know HIm and trust Him and have let Him work in us. It isn't a moment in time - in order to develop relationship with God you don't "seek after sealing power" you seek after God. When you know Him more (God is love and we can not say we know Him if we hate our brother, because if we do we are a liar - 1 John) then you trust more, you grow in faith, you become love you manifest Christ because you are the light of hte world as He told us to be. Anointing is receiving the HOly Ghost. It is that simple. Once we receive we are to continue to grow up into Him, into the full stature of Christ- the full measure and know His love which surpasses all understanding. The anointing is what allows you to even get there. It is God changing you and saying " now grow up into what I've anointed you to be, a Christ-like one, for that is my image"

I guess part of my thing is (and I"m not saying this because you are doing it) but we spend so much time seeking after signs and wonders that we are missing the point- which is to become like The Lord, through submission and yielding, denying ourselves, picking up our cross daily and following Him i.e becoming the manifesation of God in the flesh i.e. Love- and not as the world defines it, but God, so that way we become living epistles of God in the flesh to glorify Him and manifest His love to others so they too can know God.

Sorry, but no. Look to the patterns in the scriptures. In particular pay attention to the principle of the firstborn. How many firstborn end up with the birthright? Look what happens to all those who try to take the birthright for themselves.

We do not earn honors, they may only be given to us by grace. Even Jesus the Messiah asked praying: "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. (John 17:5). As you seem to understand already, it is only through submission (a broken heart and contrite spirit) that we may obtain all that the Father has.
*Edit - adding that reading Ephesians and much to this conversation.

Highlights
Chapter 3
7 I became a servant of this gospel according to the gift of God's grace that was given to me by the exercise of his power.
8 To me - less than the least of all the saints - this grace was given, to proclaim to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ
9 and to enlighten everyone about God's secret plan - a secret that has been hidden for ages in God who has created all things.

Chapter 4
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Therefore it says, "When he ascended on high he captured captives; he gave gifts to men."
9 Now what is the meaning of "he ascended," except that he also descended to the lower regions, namely, the earth?
10 He, the very one who descended, is also the one who ascended above all the heavens, in order to fill all things.
11 It was he who gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, that is, to build up the body of Christ,
13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God - a mature person, attaining to the measure of Christ's full stature.

It is important to know from whence we came (premortal existence with the Father of our spirits) and to where we are going (the promise land, Zion) (I don't understand your reluctance to answer such questions, and the ease with which you dismiss their value). If you don't understand your origins, you won't understand your inheritance. If you don't understand your inheritance your aim won't be as precise as it could and should. Also to the same degree to which one lacks understanding of these things, they will miss out on understand God

I would add to what you said about authority. We receive authority by fulfilling the patterns. Jesus was the perfect pattern, the Way, the Truth and the Life. As you and that Peter guy preach, we must partake in the divine. To me this is why the priesthood is called the Holy Priesthood, after the Order (pattern) of the Son of God. To paraphrase Neal A. Maxwell, 'we must translate Gospel principles into (godliness) improved personal character and behavior.'. I think the stories and patterns in the scriptures are clear that God bestows his authority on us and without an Atoner and companionship of the Holy Ghost our priesthood / authority is nothing.

And I agree whole-heartedly with your sentiments here:

we spend so much time seeking after signs and wonders that we are missing the point- which is to become like The Lord, through submission and yielding, denying ourselves, picking up our cross daily and following Him i.e becoming the manifesation of God in the flesh i.e. Love- and not as the world defines it, but God, so that way we become living epistles of God in the flesh to glorify Him and manifest His love to others so they too can know God.

It isn't a releuctance it is a focus. If I don't believe who Jesus is now and what He did, it doesn't matter where I came from or where I can go. We don't believe.. or shouldn't believe in Jesus to "just" get to heaven. THe purpose is to become like Him- to manifest the love of God in the flesh to others. God made us with intent. Jesus Christ is the manifestation of that intent in the flesh- He is the Perfect image of hte invisible God, whose image we are to grow into. It is trust in the here and now. Too many people "Know" where they are going before this life and after- few of them understand NOW is what is essential. If we don't fully grasp that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, then all that knowledge means nothing. IF we do not BECOME through faith and grace, then it means nothing. - If we do not udnersatnd the love that God has for us, then we can not love God. "We love because He loved us first." What I'm saying is we spend way too much time focusing on the past and way too much on the future and too little on submitting and yielding to God daily and becoming through His grace and the SPirit that dwells in us. We struggle with our beliefs... any trial seems to derail us- Christ should define us more than a life in the flesh, but too often He is not our Life, it is our circumstances. I'm saying if we can't grasp the milk, the extra stuff won't help you- we have to Build on teh foundation of CHrist, not on the foundation of where we came from and where we are going.

[John Tavner]

We are not formed in his image. We are formed after His likeness. Image of different, it's not a quality, it's a status. We are created to image Him, to be His agents, His messengers. In case you don't understand I'll expound just a little. Christ is the ultimate messenger, the Word (perfect embodiment/example of following God's counsel, full of His authority, bearer of His name, etc) of God. We are to receive the Spirit so we can become messengers, and speak with the tongue of angels, and be an extension of our Lord and Savior Jesus the Messiah as his epistles. I'm happy to share the verses of the references if you need those too.

You need to live your life as if you were with God and need to return to Him. I wouldn't dismiss the value of that so easily.

"He came to redeem us"
That does not mean to restore us. We are Jesus' slaves. He bought us. He redeemed, aka bought us from bondage. We are His. It is the Truth in Jesus that sets us free.

Romans 6
But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you have your benefit, leading to sanctification, and the end, eternal life.

2 Corinthians 4
5 For we do not preach ourselves but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your slaves for the sake of Jesus.

1 Corinthians 6
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

1 Corinthians 6:20
For you were bought with a price:




1 Corinthians 6
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

Col 1: 15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Look up the word Redeem. It means restore. To Return back to original value.

SLave means chained to God - we are His.

The Blood is what purchased us from death by our belief.

We are the temple of GOd, meaning we are supposed ot "deny ourselves, pick up our cross daily and follow HIm" We are to yield to the Spirit and not the natural man. Glorify means to manifest or show the value of who God really is to the world.

The Spirit is what transform us- it is why we must be "born again"

John 14: 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Matt 28: 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Firstly, I'm saying everything with brotherly kindness...

* maybe it's just me, and correct me if I am wrong. It seems to me that you respond to things with a measure of force. Quite aggressively. It, kind of, seems like you talk down to people as if you think that they don't know anything. Pro-tip, not every blog post is a full treatise on a given subject or the breadth of one's understanding of a subject. My suggestion is to ask more questions and invite sharing (I do these same things too sometimes, so beam in my eye).

* As sure as you are about some things, because you don't lack confidence or conviction, you still err at times. To err is human, to forgive is divine.

One example here, is you err in your meaning of redeem/redemption, as seen here: https://biblehub.com/dictionary/r/redeem.htm
Cliff notes, it means to PURCHASE, RANSOM, LIBERATE, or RESCUE especially from bondage/captivity; 7. (v. t.) To pay the penalty of; to make amends for; to serve as an equivalent or offset for; to atone for; to compensate; as, to redeem an error.

Another is your take on our bodies being temples. These verses are so straightforward and hard to misinterpret for the most part:
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. - 1 Corinthians 6

Another example is how you are defining the word image. Just citing verses with the keyword image doesn't help very much. Imaging God is really simple though. Take a look at this, it is a good primer to see what imaging God means.

We all have been slave to sin. Our value is reduced to sin. When we are redeemed we are in the Garden as if we had never sinned. In the past that word has been used to "redeem" or restore to proper value. If you are freed, you are no longer a slave. You did not start out as a slave. You are returned to original value. If you are rescued you are restored to safety. etc- it isn't about hte "definition" but the intent.

1 Cor 6 - I'm aware what it says, intent is important -look at what Luke just did misinterpreting what I said ( and this isn't a condemnation of what he did, I"m just using it as an example). God does not want slaves. IT isn't in His character. He came to set people free, not to "enslave them again." We serve Him because we love him, not because we are slaves or "we aren't our own". If you are doing it because you see yourself as a slave you will never grow up into the full stature of Christ as God intends to manifest His love to all flesh. He is saying "deny yourself" stop "being self-focused" don't lose sight of what Jesus called you to be and what He says about you. THe Spirit is what transforms you if you let it. Live in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

I didin't listen to the video so I will just say we will agree to disagree. What i do know is scripture says We are to conform ourselves to the IMage of the Son, who is the perfect image of the Father.

This all goes to my point. If we have a wrong image of God, we will read scriptures with hte wrong intent - we read words of others with the wrong intent (if we have the wrong image of them).

[Luke]

In regards to deception. You can be deceived about the nature of God from the Bible- it isn't JUST the Book of Mormon

No!! False!!

Now according to you we can’t even trust the Bible.

This is just sad.

You read my intent wrong. What I was saying is someone can read the Bible and not seek to know God and get the wrong impression of who God is. 2 Peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,

Obviously anyone can misinterpret something, that goes for anyone and any text.

What you implied was that the Bible portrays (in parts) a false version of God.

[ransomme]

It's always good to think!

D&C 58 if it can be believed is simply this," you can't do things to please the Lord, you have to become what He has declared you already are, through His Son, and then He is pleased"

Furthermore, Hel 10 the part everyone focuses on is talking more about faith, rather than becoming one with God- God says He will give Him faith to do those things. What God says to him before and the why is that sought the Lord's will and kept His commandments and He did it not because it was a burden, but because He wanted to, I'm not a big fan of how that is written out (in the scripture because people think it was because He declared the word without being weary, but that isn't hte reason). So Nephi is given faith, and God knows that He will "seek His will and Keep His commandments"

God isn't "entrusting" anyone with the "honor" it is that we are living up to that which God desired for us in the beginning. God doesn't need to "learn how to trust us" He knows our hearts, He knows what we are going to do. Nephi just did what Peter said.
We get too caught up in the experience and think the experience is what "makes a person" It isn't the experience it is the perspective and submission to God- His grace does that to us so we have the Image of God. All that Christ did is what God wants us to do- the way He lived His life is what GOd wants us to do. To bear our cross, to deny ourselves, to take no account for suffered wrongs, to love people and bless them. God already declared His sermon through His Son which was "follow me" and "the things ye have seen me do ye shall do also." What we lack is faith and that is because we rarely commune with God and let HIm transform us- the world speaks louder than truth and most of our perceptions in life are determined by the world and not the Word of God.

Another Edit: In short the "authority" is from our relationship with God - it jsut means we know HIm and trust Him and have let Him work in us. It isn't a moment in time - in order to develop relationship with God you don't "seek after sealing power" you seek after God. When you know Him more (God is love and we can not say we know Him if we hate our brother, because if we do we are a liar - 1 John) then you trust more, you grow in faith, you become love you manifest Christ because you are the light of hte world as He told us to be. Anointing is receiving the HOly Ghost. It is that simple. Once we receive we are to continue to grow up into Him, into the full stature of Christ- the full measure and know His love which surpasses all understanding. The anointing is what allows you to even get there. It is God changing you and saying " now grow up into what I've anointed you to be, a Christ-like one, for that is my image"

I guess part of my thing is (and I"m not saying this because you are doing it) but we spend so much time seeking after signs and wonders that we are missing the point- which is to become like The Lord, through submission and yielding, denying ourselves, picking up our cross daily and following Him i.e becoming the manifesation of God in the flesh i.e. Love- and not as the world defines it, but God, so that way we become living epistles of God in the flesh to glorify Him and manifest His love to others so they too can know God.

Sorry, but no. Look to the patterns in the scriptures. In particular pay attention to the principle of the firstborn. How many firstborn end up with the birthright? Look what happens to all those who try to take the birthright for themselves.

We do not earn honors, they may only be given to us by grace. Even Jesus the Messiah asked praying: "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. (John 17:5). As you seem to understand already, it is only through submission (a broken heart and contrite spirit) that we may obtain all that the Father has.
*Edit - adding that reading Ephesians and much to this conversation.

Highlights
Chapter 3
7 I became a servant of this gospel according to the gift of God's grace that was given to me by the exercise of his power.
8 To me - less than the least of all the saints - this grace was given, to proclaim to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ
9 and to enlighten everyone about God's secret plan - a secret that has been hidden for ages in God who has created all things.

Chapter 4
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Therefore it says, "When he ascended on high he captured captives; he gave gifts to men."
9 Now what is the meaning of "he ascended," except that he also descended to the lower regions, namely, the earth?
10 He, the very one who descended, is also the one who ascended above all the heavens, in order to fill all things.
11 It was he who gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, that is, to build up the body of Christ,
13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God - a mature person, attaining to the measure of Christ's full stature.

It is important to know from whence we came (premortal existence with the Father of our spirits) and to where we are going (the promise land, Zion) (I don't understand your reluctance to answer such questions, and the ease with which you dismiss their value). If you don't understand your origins, you won't understand your inheritance. If you don't understand your inheritance your aim won't be as precise as it could and should. Also to the same degree to which one lacks understanding of these things, they will miss out on understand God

I would add to what you said about authority. We receive authority by fulfilling the patterns. Jesus was the perfect pattern, the Way, the Truth and the Life. As you and that Peter guy preach, we must partake in the divine. To me this is why the priesthood is called the Holy Priesthood, after the Order (pattern) of the Son of God. To paraphrase Neal A. Maxwell, 'we must translate Gospel principles into (godliness) improved personal character and behavior.'. I think the stories and patterns in the scriptures are clear that God bestows his authority on us and without an Atoner and companionship of the Holy Ghost our priesthood / authority is nothing.

And I agree whole-heartedly with your sentiments here:

we spend so much time seeking after signs and wonders that we are missing the point- which is to become like The Lord, through submission and yielding, denying ourselves, picking up our cross daily and following Him i.e becoming the manifesation of God in the flesh i.e. Love- and not as the world defines it, but God, so that way we become living epistles of God in the flesh to glorify Him and manifest His love to others so they too can know God.

It isn't a releuctance it is a focus. If I don't believe who Jesus is now and what He did, it doesn't matter where I came from or where I can go. We don't believe.. or shouldn't believe in Jesus to "just" get to heaven. THe purpose is to become like Him- to manifest the love of God in the flesh to others. God made us with intent. Jesus Christ is the manifestation of that intent in the flesh- He is the Perfect image of hte invisible God, whose image we are to grow into. It is trust in the here and now. Too many people "Know" where they are going before this life and after- few of them understand NOW is what is essential. If we don't fully grasp that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, then all that knowledge means nothing. IF we do not BECOME through faith and grace, then it means nothing. - If we do not udnersatnd the love that God has for us, then we can not love God. "We love because He loved us first." What I'm saying is we spend way too much time focusing on the past and way too much on the future and too little on submitting and yielding to God daily and becoming through His grace and the SPirit that dwells in us. We struggle with our beliefs... any trial seems to derail us- Christ should define us more than a life in the flesh, but too often He is not our Life, it is our circumstances. I'm saying if we can't grasp the milk, the extra stuff won't help you- we have to Build on teh foundation of CHrist, not on the foundation of where we came from and where we are going.

Sure, but they aren't exclusive. They add to one another, glory, to glory. We are supposed to take notice of the things that God has done for us. Glory to God.

As it is written, "...remember how great things the Lord had done for [us]...".
"...remember the Lord your God in the things with which he hath blessed you...".
"...walk humbly before the Lord, and did remember how great things the Lord had done for his father, and also taught his people how great things the Lord had done for their fathers."
"...remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts."

The more I know about what God had done and will do, the deeper and more rich my songs of praise become. And the brighter my hope becomes.

[ransomme]

28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

Col 1: 15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Look up the word Redeem. It means restore. To Return back to original value.

SLave means chained to God - we are His.

The Blood is what purchased us from death by our belief.

We are the temple of GOd, meaning we are supposed ot "deny ourselves, pick up our cross daily and follow HIm" We are to yield to the Spirit and not the natural man. Glorify means to manifest or show the value of who God really is to the world.

The Spirit is what transform us- it is why we must be "born again"

John 14: 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Matt 28: 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Firstly, I'm saying everything with brotherly kindness...

* maybe it's just me, and correct me if I am wrong. It seems to me that you respond to things with a measure of force. Quite aggressively. It, kind of, seems like you talk down to people as if you think that they don't know anything. Pro-tip, not every blog post is a full treatise on a given subject or the breadth of one's understanding of a subject. My suggestion is to ask more questions and invite sharing (I do these same things too sometimes, so beam in my eye).

* As sure as you are about some things, because you don't lack confidence or conviction, you still err at times. To err is human, to forgive is divine.

One example here, is you err in your meaning of redeem/redemption, as seen here: https://biblehub.com/dictionary/r/redeem.htm
Cliff notes, it means to PURCHASE, RANSOM, LIBERATE, or RESCUE especially from bondage/captivity; 7. (v. t.) To pay the penalty of; to make amends for; to serve as an equivalent or offset for; to atone for; to compensate; as, to redeem an error.

Another is your take on our bodies being temples. These verses are so straightforward and hard to misinterpret for the most part:
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. - 1 Corinthians 6

Another example is how you are defining the word image. Just citing verses with the keyword image doesn't help very much. Imaging God is really simple though. Take a look at this, it is a good primer to see what imaging God means.

We all have been slave to sin. Our value is reduced to sin. When we are redeemed we are in the Garden as if we had never sinned. In the past that word has been used to "redeem" or restore to proper value. If you are freed, you are no longer a slave. You did not start out as a slave. You are returned to original value. If you are rescued you are restored to safety. etc- it isn't about hte "definition" but the intent.

1 Cor 6 - I'm aware what it says, intent is important -look at what Luke just did misinterpreting what I said ( and this isn't a condemnation of what he did, I"m just using it as an example). God does not want slaves. IT isn't in His character. He came to set people free, not to "enslave them again." We serve Him because we love him, not because we are slaves or "we aren't our own". If you are doing it because you see yourself as a slave you will never grow up into the full stature of Christ as God intends to manifest His love to all flesh. He is saying "deny yourself" stop "being self-focused" don't lose sight of what Jesus called you to be and what He says about you. THe Spirit is what transforms you if you let it. Live in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

I didin't listen to the video so I will just say we will agree to disagree. What i do know is scripture says We are to conform ourselves to the IMage of the Son, who is the perfect image of the Father.

This all goes to my point. If we have a wrong image of God, we will read scriptures with hte wrong intent - we read words of others with the wrong intent (if we have the wrong image of them).

The words redeem/redemption have profound meaning. They are specifically used for our instruction. Not just in their express usage, but also in stories and patterns. For example the 30 pieces of silver that Judas Iscariot received for selling out Jesus.

Jesus, "6 who though he existed in the form of God did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped,
7 but emptied himself by taking on the form of a slave, by looking like other men, and by sharing in human nature.
8 He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to the point of death - even death on a cross!"

Jesus died for the price of a slave on the cross! The price of a slave is what was paid for His innocent blood! The very blood by which he purchased all those who covenant, ally with Him

Brother there are much deeper and more beautiful truths woven throughout a unified story in the scriptures. They are used to foreshadow and show patterns so that we are not deceived. And to reward seekers.

And we are slaves / servants of Jesus. But He is a just Master and He is guiding us to our freedom. Lean more about
biblical slavery.

[John Tavner]

No!! False!!

Now according to you we can’t even trust the Bible.

This is just sad.

You read my intent wrong. What I was saying is someone can read the Bible and not seek to know God and get the wrong impression of who God is. 2 Peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,

Obviously anyone can misinterpret something, that goes for anyone and any text.

What you implied was that the Bible portrays (in parts) a false version of God.

If you want to believe that is what I implied, that is your prerogative. I know what I meant.

[John Tavner]

Sorry, but no. Look to the patterns in the scriptures. In particular pay attention to the principle of the firstborn. How many firstborn end up with the birthright? Look what happens to all those who try to take the birthright for themselves.

We do not earn honors, they may only be given to us by grace. Even Jesus the Messiah asked praying: "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. (John 17:5). As you seem to understand already, it is only through submission (a broken heart and contrite spirit) that we may obtain all that the Father has.
*Edit - adding that reading Ephesians and much to this conversation.

Highlights
Chapter 3
7 I became a servant of this gospel according to the gift of God's grace that was given to me by the exercise of his power.
8 To me - less than the least of all the saints - this grace was given, to proclaim to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ
9 and to enlighten everyone about God's secret plan - a secret that has been hidden for ages in God who has created all things.

Chapter 4
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Therefore it says, "When he ascended on high he captured captives; he gave gifts to men."
9 Now what is the meaning of "he ascended," except that he also descended to the lower regions, namely, the earth?
10 He, the very one who descended, is also the one who ascended above all the heavens, in order to fill all things.
11 It was he who gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, that is, to build up the body of Christ,
13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God - a mature person, attaining to the measure of Christ's full stature.

It is important to know from whence we came (premortal existence with the Father of our spirits) and to where we are going (the promise land, Zion) (I don't understand your reluctance to answer such questions, and the ease with which you dismiss their value). If you don't understand your origins, you won't understand your inheritance. If you don't understand your inheritance your aim won't be as precise as it could and should. Also to the same degree to which one lacks understanding of these things, they will miss out on understand God

I would add to what you said about authority. We receive authority by fulfilling the patterns. Jesus was the perfect pattern, the Way, the Truth and the Life. As you and that Peter guy preach, we must partake in the divine. To me this is why the priesthood is called the Holy Priesthood, after the Order (pattern) of the Son of God. To paraphrase Neal A. Maxwell, 'we must translate Gospel principles into (godliness) improved personal character and behavior.'. I think the stories and patterns in the scriptures are clear that God bestows his authority on us and without an Atoner and companionship of the Holy Ghost our priesthood / authority is nothing.

And I agree whole-heartedly with your sentiments here:

It isn't a releuctance it is a focus. If I don't believe who Jesus is now and what He did, it doesn't matter where I came from or where I can go. We don't believe.. or shouldn't believe in Jesus to "just" get to heaven. THe purpose is to become like Him- to manifest the love of God in the flesh to others. God made us with intent. Jesus Christ is the manifestation of that intent in the flesh- He is the Perfect image of hte invisible God, whose image we are to grow into. It is trust in the here and now. Too many people "Know" where they are going before this life and after- few of them understand NOW is what is essential. If we don't fully grasp that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, then all that knowledge means nothing. IF we do not BECOME through faith and grace, then it means nothing. - If we do not udnersatnd the love that God has for us, then we can not love God. "We love because He loved us first." What I'm saying is we spend way too much time focusing on the past and way too much on the future and too little on submitting and yielding to God daily and becoming through His grace and the SPirit that dwells in us. We struggle with our beliefs... any trial seems to derail us- Christ should define us more than a life in the flesh, but too often He is not our Life, it is our circumstances. I'm saying if we can't grasp the milk, the extra stuff won't help you- we have to Build on teh foundation of CHrist, not on the foundation of where we came from and where we are going.

Sure, but they aren't exclusive. They add to one another, glory, to glory. We are supposed to take notice of the things that God has done for us. Glory to God.

As it is written, "...remember how great things the Lord had done for [us]...".
"...remember the Lord your God in the things with which he hath blessed you...".
"...walk humbly before the Lord, and did remember how great things the Lord had done for his father, and also taught his people how great things the Lord had done for their fathers."
"...remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts."

The more I know about what God had done and will do, the deeper and more rich my songs of praise become. And the brighter my hope becomes.

I agree with this, but to remember we have to know and understand who He is here and now. first. When you see Him for who He is, then we can grow in faith. If you don't believe He is merciful, then you can't remember His mercy.

[John Tavner]

Firstly, I'm saying everything with brotherly kindness...

* maybe it's just me, and correct me if I am wrong. It seems to me that you respond to things with a measure of force. Quite aggressively. It, kind of, seems like you talk down to people as if you think that they don't know anything. Pro-tip, not every blog post is a full treatise on a given subject or the breadth of one's understanding of a subject. My suggestion is to ask more questions and invite sharing (I do these same things too sometimes, so beam in my eye).

* As sure as you are about some things, because you don't lack confidence or conviction, you still err at times. To err is human, to forgive is divine.

One example here, is you err in your meaning of redeem/redemption, as seen here: https://biblehub.com/dictionary/r/redeem.htm
Cliff notes, it means to PURCHASE, RANSOM, LIBERATE, or RESCUE especially from bondage/captivity; 7. (v. t.) To pay the penalty of; to make amends for; to serve as an equivalent or offset for; to atone for; to compensate; as, to redeem an error.

Another is your take on our bodies being temples. These verses are so straightforward and hard to misinterpret for the most part:
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. - 1 Corinthians 6

Another example is how you are defining the word image. Just citing verses with the keyword image doesn't help very much. Imaging God is really simple though. Take a look at this, it is a good primer to see what imaging God means.

We all have been slave to sin. Our value is reduced to sin. When we are redeemed we are in the Garden as if we had never sinned. In the past that word has been used to "redeem" or restore to proper value. If you are freed, you are no longer a slave. You did not start out as a slave. You are returned to original value. If you are rescued you are restored to safety. etc- it isn't about hte "definition" but the intent.

1 Cor 6 - I'm aware what it says, intent is important -look at what Luke just did misinterpreting what I said ( and this isn't a condemnation of what he did, I"m just using it as an example). God does not want slaves. IT isn't in His character. He came to set people free, not to "enslave them again." We serve Him because we love him, not because we are slaves or "we aren't our own". If you are doing it because you see yourself as a slave you will never grow up into the full stature of Christ as God intends to manifest His love to all flesh. He is saying "deny yourself" stop "being self-focused" don't lose sight of what Jesus called you to be and what He says about you. THe Spirit is what transforms you if you let it. Live in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

I didin't listen to the video so I will just say we will agree to disagree. What i do know is scripture says We are to conform ourselves to the IMage of the Son, who is the perfect image of the Father.

This all goes to my point. If we have a wrong image of God, we will read scriptures with hte wrong intent - we read words of others with the wrong intent (if we have the wrong image of them).

The words redeem/redemption have profound meaning. They are specifically used for our instruction. Not just in their express usage, but also in stories and patterns. For example the 30 pieces of silver that Judas Iscariot received for selling out Jesus.

Jesus, "6 who though he existed in the form of God did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped,
7 but emptied himself by taking on the form of a slave, by looking like other men, and by sharing in human nature.
8 He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to the point of death - even death on a cross!"

Jesus died for the price of a slave on the cross! The price of a slave is what was paid for His innocent blood! The very blood by which he purchased all those who covenant, ally with Him

Brother there are much deeper and more beautiful truths woven throughout a unified story in the scriptures. They are used to foreshadow and show patterns so that we are not deceived. And to reward seekers.

And we are slaves / servants of Jesus. But He is a just Master and He is guiding us to our freedom. Lean more about
biblical slavery.

Was Jesus a slave though? Despite the fact that we was bought with a slaves price? Though thinking about it it adds to the idea that "He who knew no sin became sin" we were chained/slaves to sin, couldn't escape, He became sin, was placed on a pole as sin, so the world could see God was cursing sin in the flesh so we might be free. Then He was resurrected. We in turn die in His likeness and are "born again" or resurrected as new creations. That said, Whose name do we bear/ are we supposed to bear? We are only slaves if we live our lives like the Law requires (in that we do only and don't become). Grace is what sets us free and makes us Sons. You are right, there is a pattern. Don't get trapped into thinking the Old Testament was God's intention for us- it, the law and its application was what happened when they rejected Him. The New Covenant is God's demonstration of what He desires in us, it is Righteousness for us through His Son becoming like the Son.

[FrankOne]

There is a limit, 144k! #theJW'swereright

I know 144k is not a specific number, but it's they who have their anointings sealed so to speak. Firstborn.

Funny how I never really contemplated this before now. Man the precepts run deep and strong

yes, now contemplating this , it does become an interesting topic.

off the cuff, barring any sort of official definition, my mind goes to this:

Someone that is anointed has reached a level that can never be undone. A sort of benchmark which was likely attained from a previous existence in most cases. This level cannot be 'granted' but it is a level attained through personal spiritual growth.

Sorry to go to the 'previous existence' idea, but I have found so very very few men in my life that change much during the course of their life. From observation, we typically are who we are for our lives, perhaps growing , in some cases , a few grades at most in a lifetime. Kindergarten-> PHD.

ie, Self-deceiving liars in their youth, invariably continue that pattern although, in adulthood, they create a good mask to wear in order to achieve their desires.

Alma 42
25 What, do ye suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God would cease to be God.

God has agency too.

I perceive that an anointing is not relative to forgiveness per se. My view is that an anointing occurs after having gone through enough experiences, while making the 'right' choices, which refines the individual to a certain state of being. Like doing a work out program for many years and the body is in top condition.

As far as mercy robbing justice, that all depends on one's concept of sin. Consider a courtroom in the U.S. where a man is being tried for a crime. As the trial proceeds , it is discovered that the man on trial is actually not a citizen of the U.S. and in his case, the law cannot apply to him and he is then deported to his country of origin. When he returns home, the judicial system awards him full freedom because no such law exists in that country for him to be found guilty of. He is exonerated of all charges.

The courtroom is the earth . The judge on earth is the God of this world.
His country of origin is where Christ resides.

just something to consider.