No problem they may judge, and the Spirit may teach.John Tavner wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 7:26 amI'm not reading most of your stuff at this point- no offense intended I'm jsut finished with the conversation.ransomme wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 6:42 am See my comments in red.Hope: Hebrew words for hope include qavah (to wait for - https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6960.htm), batach (to trust - https://biblehub.com/hebrew/982.htm), and yachal (to wait, await - https://www.biblehub.com/hebrew/3176.htm) are used to indicate trust in God to not disappoint us. Qavah is found within biblical prayers that express belief that God will transform hopes into reality, batach to trust in God, and yachal as in waiting patiently for God.John Tavner wrote: ↑March 19th, 2023, 7:57 pm I agree Jesus' example was to "DO" the Father's will and work, because HE WAS THE WILL OF GOD IN THE FLESH and He WILLINGLY Did it. HE WAS as in that IS His state of being, it was/IS WHO He was/IS. He did NOT JUST DO it because the Father told Him to. HE did it ALL because of WHO He was and His LOVE towards us and for us. He wanted us to be restored in our relationship with the Father and fulfill the divine potential God made us for in the beginning. And His message was "Follow me." Put another way, He couldn't have done the Father's work unless HE was WILLING unless He IS/WAS. As the Example He shows us what we are to become. If He wasn't love and didn't love us He never could have done the will of hte Father, because there would have been hypocrisy in Him and there was NO hypocrisy in Him. yeah, this is good.
I agree to become is to do, but to do is not to become and the problem is most of us try to DO to become. That is wrong entirely- if it doesn't apply to you, then don't apply it to yourself. Side note: there may be a place of growth in there, but too often our purpose is not to grow, we act out of fear or guilt rather than a desire to obtain faith and growth and in submission seeking to be transformed if the yielding to God is not found in there we are relying on our flesh to save us rather than grace through faith. never said "to do is to become". This is the kind of thing that I think Nightlight was talking about. You argue against things that no one said or thinks, so it appears as a strawman.
Faith is not an action, faith is a trust and belief that leads to action. It is why one does their works by faith. If one does works to try to and prove belief they will fail. Half of our prayers are without faith. Most of us pray in unbelief or without faith, they are needs driven rather than faith or answer driven. See below, faith is a larger principle than that. Well not just a principle it is an ordinance
Know about Jesus' life IS the most important thing. It isn't a neither here nor there. It is THE thing. THat is my entire point. I have said that multiple times. That is fine you can think I"m cherry picking- but for clarification- I'm defining the word and interpreting hte word through Jesus who is the Word who spoke the Will of God as clear as can be, not through people, but through His Son, who was the visible image of the Invisible God. It may be THE thing, but it's not the only thing. "He counts the number of the stars;
he names all of them." (Psalms 147:4) He knows and cares about way more than you give Him credit for. That's why we don't get how you easily dismiss things of God. So it looks much worse when given what you admit to believing and not believing. It seems disingenuine at the very least.
I don't know what you mean about Nightlight calling me out or what you are talking about in regards to me not admitting things until then. Please explain? No I"m not ashamed, sometimes I don't want to get into the weeds of things because I don't find it relevant, his question was in my mind and understanding irrelevant to what I had been saying (I still don't know how it was relevant) and the entire premise of what I have been saying is this "Unless you know God which means to come unto HIm and become love, through yielding and submitting all this knowledge and supposed understanding and doing will mean nothing- so it doesn't matter if we can't believe the Life of Jesus and what HE says about us and His purpose for us. HE IS THE Way, The Truth and The Life. Do we understand that HE is supposed to be OUR LIFE, OUR WAY, OUR TRUTH. Every perspective we take has to be through Jesus life. If we can't see it in Jesus' life it shouldn't be in ours. I am trying to show but apparently failing how our view has gotten so messed up that we (in general) don't put Christ first. We talk about Him, we preach about Him, but we don't become like Him because we see ourselves through our circumstances and the precepts of man rather than what Christ said about us. We don't yield to Him, but we will talk for hours about our pre-mortal existence and then create theologies about who was worse beforehand and who was better etc etc.. We incorporate CHrist into our lives more than we become like Him in our lives. The whole "calling and election" thing get so focused on the "event" or whatever that we miss the purpose of which is to BECOME. IF we yield, it will come. If we do as Peter says, not because I need to "do" it but because I am yielding and submitting and letting God become my life through Christ, then it happens because we learn to trust and have faith in Christ, we grow from grace to grace. Answering a question like **Do you believe you existed as spirit in heaven before you came to earth and took to the flesh?** or **Do you believe this land was set apart, as the Book of Mormon claims ?** is not getting into the weeds
I know I"m militant about this and sorry if I"m too forceful, it isn't my intention, I"m trying to break the mindsets that we've grown un with. maybe I'm terrible at explaining myself, but these nuances are so essential to embracing and knowing God- because knowing Him means you become love and Know Him also means you have eternal life. If we have not love we are nothing. IF we miss this we will strive all our days, be miserable "HOPING" but not in the scriptural way that God will see somehow to accept us, and never come to know God because we never fully communed with Him and let His Spirit have His way with us and transform us into His image, which is Love. We will find Matt 7 happening to us despite all our "wonderful works" and "casting outs." These wonderful works are done by and in faith. Faith is action. "they who have faith in him will CLEAVE unto every good thing…to MINISTER according to the word of his command, SHOWING themselves unto them of strong faith and a firm mind in every form of godliness…And Christ hath said: If ye will have faith in me ye shall have POWER TO DO whatsoever thing is expedient in me…for it is by faith that miracles are wrought; and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men;" (Moroni 7)
The Greek word is elpis. According to Strong’s Concordance, elpis (https://biblehub.com/greek/1680.htm) means hope, expectation, trust, and confidence. Elpis is an expectation of what is guaranteed.
Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. - 1 Peter 1:13
We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, sure and steadfast, which reaches inside behind the veil, where Jesus our forerunner entered on our behalf, since he became a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek. - Hebrews 6:19-20 You see knowing about what is to come is very important, it is knowing who Jesus is and that He is able to deliver on His promises! It is similar to know what came before, and knowing things like Jesus Had glory with the Father before He descended to Earth in the Flesh.
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. For in hope we were saved, but hope that is seen is not hope, for who hopes for what he already sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we eagerly wait for it. - Romans 8:18-25
Hope is essential to “Enduring to the End” (part of the Doctrine of Christ). Perseverance in our suffering brings hope.
sons of God, see (John 1:12; Romans 8:2,8,14; 1 John 3:1-3; 3 Nephi 9:17; Moroni 7:26,48; D&C 11:30, 32:5, & 45:8; Moses 6:62-68) but this also seems to be referring to the Endtime when God swore to return Zion, the City of Enoch to the Earth;
Hebrew 12:22-23 "To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."
JST, Genesis 9:21–25: God sets the rainbow in heaven as a reminder of His covenant to Enoch and to Noah. In the last days the general assembly of the Church of the Firstborn will join the righteous on earth.
21 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant, which I made unto thy father Enoch; that, when men should keep all my commandments, Zion should again come on the earth, the city of Enoch which I have caught up unto myself.
22 And this is mine everlasting covenant, that when thy posterity shall embrace the truth, and look upward, then shall Zion look downward, and all the heavens shall shake with gladness, and the earth shall tremble with joy;
23 And the general assembly of the church of the firstborn shall come down out of heaven, and possess the earth, and shall have place until the end come. And this is mine everlasting covenant, which I made with thy father Enoch.
24 And the bow shall be in the cloud, and I will establish my covenant unto thee, which I have made between me and thee, for every living creature of all flesh that shall be upon the earth.
25 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant which I have established between me and thee; for all flesh that shall be upon the earth.
Faith is something we "exercise", something we put into action. Faith is an animating principle, and without action, it is nothing.
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. - James 2:26
Faith is more than believing, it is acting. We act to realize, to bring about what we hope for. We act in accordance with what we believe and what we treasure. The word “believe” sometimes refers to an acknowledgment that a certain statement is true, and sometimes as a definite commitment of one’s soul into acting.
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for, being convinced of what we do not see. - Hebrews 11:1
Scripture often uses the word obedience as a synonym for faith (John 3:36; Acts 6:7; Hebrews 5:9). Obedience is not passive either.
Also in reference to God's promise to Enoch and Noah by the sign of the bow "exercise faith", "keep all my commandments", etc. Faith is about taking action:
Ether 4
6 For the Lord said unto me: They shall not go forth unto the Gentiles until the day that they shall repent of their iniquity, and become clean before the Lord.
7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.
And it is "...by faith, they become the sons of God..." (Moroni 7) How is this done? By acting, by BECOMING, and partaking in the divine nature of God. SHOWING forth the fruits. FAITH is to BECOME, which is TO DO.
Much of what I say is for others reading, not so much for you it is to clarify things because while you may not say to "do is to become" the majority of people take that approach. They think they have to "do" to have faith. You have faith and then you do- it's why there is so much unbelief in the world.
I've made my point. If your obsession is with making people slaves in the terms you want rather than how God sees it which is willingly giving all, that is up to you, that is not scriptures intent or God's intent. If you are agreeing with me, great, if not, then so be it, that will be how you live your life. "As a man thinketh in His heart, so Is He." It is not how God intends you to see it- other than the sense that you are willingly giving Him everything you are because you love Him and are a Son and wish to serve your Father, so you commit to doing so forever, but of your own free will- even though you can still reject that, but if you truly are humble (like a slave) and you love Him you will not want to and the best word to describe that in translation is a slave.
It is obvious that you don't understand what I am saying and have no desire to try to understand when you speak in such a manner saying things like "obsession". It's not about translation, it is in deeper layers of the text in the scriptures. It is in the stories and patterns. Sorry that you are not open to the scriptures and seeing the beauty of what Jesus the Redeemer is doing for us to bring us out of bondage and offer to us to bond with Him, and be adopted by Him. When you search the scriptures from beginning to end this is one of many wonderful patterns that may open up to you. Perhaps someday.