Page 1 of 2

The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 10th, 2023, 1:23 pm
by Leland41-2
The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church


In recent years, the LDS Church has focused an enormous amount of energy on supposedly "getting the name right" for the LDS Church. I consider this effort to be worse than wasted, since they have not spent a corresponding amount of effort on getting the substance right, as opposed to merely attending to first level appearances. As the old saying goes, you can try to put lipstick on a pig, but it is still just a pig.

If the leaders wanted to be successful according to scriptural standards by exhibiting the inherent power of the gospel to change societies for the better, (e.g. Moses 7:19 – the city of Enoch), they would do that, but they don't have any such desire. They are perfectly happy to be successful Pharisees – "rich young[/old] rulers." Perhaps something really radical will cause them to change their minds some time, but it is hard to imagine how big that jolt would have to be.

In the spirit of getting the correct descriptive name or names for whatever the Salt Lake City church should be called, I would like to make some suggestions on how to make the names match the substance:

Donald Trump has made into an art form the use of single word (or very short) nicknames to differentiate himself from other big names in the political world. I think he's onto something. We have terms in common use in the Mormon subculture such as TSSC -- the so-called Church (or should it be TSSTC – the so-called true church?) Then there is TBM --- true blue Mormon, I believe -- etc. Perhaps we need to use that kind of social shorthand for a different purpose here to assign the correct names to whatever this institution is which thrives in offices located in downtown Salt Lake City.

There is such a thing as the Fundamentalist LDS Church. Unfortunately, that truth interferes with the use of the letter "F" in this manner. But perhaps we can convince people to start thinking of the terms "Failed" or "Fake" when they see the letter "F” instead of Fundamentalist, since the Salt Lake City LDS church is anything but a fundamentalist church. But it most certainly is both Fake and Failed.

Failed state/church
Apparently, the normal meaning of a "failed state" is that “A failed state is a state that has lost its effective ability to govern its populace.” Or “According to the political theories of Max Weber, a state is defined as maintaining a monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force within its borders.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state

Those definitions are not a perfect fit for describing the government of God on earth, since that particular government is NEVER supposed to use physical force, but only persuasion. However, if that "government of God" totally abandons any effort to inspire people to heed the directives and actions and the lessons of the Scriptures, then it has truly failed in its mission.

My guess is that the church leaders have taken in about $1 trillion since 1896. Not too bad of a profit from a confidence game. But that is relatively unimportant. The fact that the Church is exploiting its opportunities to turn the church into a priestcraft piggy bank, while the leaders present themselves as being terrible examples of Christians to the members and potential members (while claiming otherwise, of course), makes the whole church program hostile to the true gospel of Christ. Illegitimately implementing the tax on religion (finalized in about 1960) which is the new tithing, means that the bad effect of the Church turning to priestcraft and taking $1 trillion from naïve members, means that they have actually done about $100 trillion worth of damage, or more, to the US society and the world since 1896. Or if we say it a different way, they have prevented at least $100 trillion in good being done in the name of Christianity, things that would lead us towards an ideal human society which we might call Zion, or the Millennium.

I would say that church leaders today, in cooperation with their predecessors beginning in 1896, have committed the worst crime in three centuries of human history by totally failing in their assigned mission to improve human society. They had, or could have had, the means to carry out their mission, but they abandoned that mission and took the money and ran.

Those church leaders have been active participants in, and contributors to, every evil which has befallen our society since that fateful year of 1896 when Wilford Woodruff, Lorenzo Snow, and others, decided that Nehor and Korihor had the right idea, and they should follow suit rather than follow the clear examples of Christ himself.

Perhaps we should start holding public funerals to mourn the passing of the real Christian Church in 1896. We have the Muslims and the Jews who mourn various religious losses, with those rituals being carried on for thousands of years. The Muslim yearly event is quite striking:
Blood has been spilt as Shia Muslims marked the Day of Ashura, commemorating the death of the Prophet Mohammed’s grandson, Imam Hussein, with mass self-flagellation ceremonies.
Ashura Day: Why Shia Muslims mutilate themselves & their children (WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGES)
https://www.rt.com/news/319654-ashura-blood-muslim-cut/
Perhaps we should create a “death of Christianity” memorial service and celebrate it at least once a year from now until the end of time (or perhaps the Second Coming). Maybe we could skip the blood-draining and blood-splattering part, although that is certainly graphic.

What was supposed to happen?
The original Church of Christ established Judeo-Christian standards throughout much of the world and created the Western world and its great defense of freedom.

The restored church was supposed to be the second dose or booster of freedom and righteousness, to add to the gains made to society through Christianity which brought us Western civilization, and push us on to much higher Zion or Millennial social standards, but instead it blew up on the launching pad, and it still sits there in smoking ruins, and no one has a clue as to how to rebuild it or relaunch it. Maybe an Elon Musk kind of person can fix this mess as he has fixed others (reusable rockets, Twitter, electric vehicles, etc.), but I don't see that on the horizon yet. Maybe we will ALL have to become Elon Musks to get things moving again.

We don’t even know what the truth is
Things have deteriorated so far, that essentially no one living today can even tell us what the gospel was that Christ taught while he was alive on the earth. Incidentally, I am quite certain that one can only explain it with action, not by a plethora of nice-sounding words. It appears that the church leaders and most of the members are willing to accept the atonement of Jesus Christ, but haven't a clue about what else he might have accomplished and intended during his life and thereafter. A very large segment of the leaders and church members today seem to believe that, except for the atonement, nothing changed between the Old Testament and the New Testament, and it is still Old Testament time in modern America. Christ taught a new gospel, but we have ignored it or twisted it into nonsense.

We read the words of our Scriptures and they are gibberish to us. We are mesmerized by the words, but completely miss his meaning. He taught us in parables, and we imagine that we understand the parables today, but we appear to be no wiser than most of the people at his time in understanding his complete meaning. Again, action is all that matters. Buckets of soothing words are meaningless. If we are not changing society for the better every day, in a major way, then we are no better than the pagans.

Paganism
Incidentally, I want to write another post which argues that today we truly are no better than the pagans. (And many DNA Mormons ARE pagans.) Later this year a book should be published entitled Pagan America: The Decline of Christianity and the Coming Dark Age, by John Daniel Davidson. That should be interesting.

The new church slogan "The Covenant Path" sounds suspiciously like the Tao or the Dao, "The Way" of Eastern religions such as Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism. We are actually being instructed on how to become good Chinese pagan slaves, not free American Christians. The Asian “Way of Heaven" includes being properly obedient to the Emperor and all other authority figures, dead or alive. Today's church’s anti-Constitution globalist teachings and actions are the exact opposite of the personal freedom and resultant prosperity and multitude of good works implied by a Zion or Millennial society.
https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/ ... orship.htm

The solution (Jordan Peterson has it right in another current LDSFF post)
The antidote to the passive slave/victim religion taught by the LDS church today is voluminous and aggressive free-will charity-based action to improve society and improve the levels of freedom and personal responsibility.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 10th, 2023, 1:51 pm
by The Red Pill
Joseph Smith restored the true gospel to the earth...everything went downhill with his murder.

I think a proper name for the church today is given at the end of 1st Nephi..."The Church of the Devil (TCOTD). It's just part of a larger club now.

That's not hyperbole...

4 attributes distinguish TCOTD. Nephi instructs us to NOT to go after these 4 things.

1. Money (Ensign Peak Advisors)
2. Popularity (Q15/ red-chair worship)
3. Power (disagree and get excommunicated)
4. Lusts of the flesh (SRA, LGBTG worship)

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 10th, 2023, 2:07 pm
by Bronco73idi
The Red Pill wrote: March 10th, 2023, 1:51 pm Joseph Smith restored the true gospel to the earth...everything went downhill with his murder.

I think a proper name for the church today is given at the end of 1st Nephi..."The Church of the Devil (TCOTD). It's just part of a larger club now.

That's not hyperbole...

4 attributes distinguish TCOTD. Nephi instructs us to NOT to go after these 4 things.

1. Money (Ensign Peak Advisors)
2. Popularity (Q15/ red-chair worship)
3. Power (disagree and get excommunicated)
4. Lusts of the flesh (SRA, LGBTG worship)
Did he?

In order for him to do so he would have to be a descendant of Ephraim (Jeremiah 31:6-9) and he would have had to taught a “new everlasting covenant” per Jeremiah 31:31……

For Jospeh to be a true prophet, the people who proclaim that he taught a new everlasting covenant would have to be true and correct….

Simple math, unless you think Isaiah is a fake prophet…..

Isaiah 24
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 10th, 2023, 3:49 pm
by CaptainM
Bronco73idi wrote: March 10th, 2023, 2:07 pm
The Red Pill wrote: March 10th, 2023, 1:51 pm Joseph Smith restored the true gospel to the earth...everything went downhill with his murder.

I think a proper name for the church today is given at the end of 1st Nephi..."The Church of the Devil (TCOTD). It's just part of a larger club now.

That's not hyperbole...

4 attributes distinguish TCOTD. Nephi instructs us to NOT to go after these 4 things.

1. Money (Ensign Peak Advisors)
2. Popularity (Q15/ red-chair worship)
3. Power (disagree and get excommunicated)
4. Lusts of the flesh (SRA, LGBTG worship)
Did he?

In order for him to do so he would have to be a descendant of Ephraim (Jeremiah 31:6-9) and he would have had to taught a “new everlasting covenant” per Jeremiah 31:31……

For Jospeh to be a true prophet, the people who proclaim that he taught a new everlasting covenant would have to be true and correct….

Simple math, unless you think Isaiah is a fake prophet…..

Isaiah 24
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Agreed! I addressed this whole thing in viewtopic.php?t=69754. The true church of Christ was only able to come out of the wilderness briefly, but was driven back until the marvelous work and wonder does actually happen.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 10th, 2023, 4:02 pm
by Leland41-2
Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church
Post by Bronco73idi » March 10th, 2023, 2:07 pm

The Red Pill wrote: ↑March 10th, 2023, 1:51 pm
Joseph Smith restored the true gospel to the earth...everything went downhill with his murder.

I think a proper name for the church today is given at the end of 1st Nephi..."The Church of the Devil (TCOTD). It's just part of a larger club now.

That's not hyperbole...

4 attributes distinguish TCOTD. Nephi instructs us to NOT to go after these 4 things.

1. Money (Ensign Peak Advisors)
2. Popularity (Q15/ red-chair worship)
3. Power (disagree and get excommunicated)
4. Lusts of the flesh (SRA, LGBTG worship)


Did he?
Here is my version of church history:
I happen to believe that Joseph Smith did a really good job of restoring the Church which Christ had set up during his own lifetime. Since that time people have muddied the waters a great deal, sometimes quite intentionally, to reach a certain result. There were various minor and mostly transient problems after the death of Joseph Smith, but, as I see it, the real major problem, the turning point in everything was when Wilford Woodruff and Lorenzo Snow decided in 1896 to put their hands in the cookie jar and start giving themselves salaries from church monies. Having gotten away with that change (and throwing Moses Thatcher out of the 12 apostles because he did not agree with them), they kept pressing on in that effort with Lorenzo Snow's fake revelation about tithing in 1899, and things have gotten progressively worse since. As far as I can tell, it was N. Eldon Tanner who finally decided to keep people out of the temple unless they paid their tithing to the central offices. That happened in about 1961, I would guess, since N. Eldon Tanner joined the church leadership in 1960. That gave the church leaders a lot of money, none of which they deserved, and most of which they have wasted.

Since that time (1896) enormous changes have been made to the church, as they have basically stopped practicing the gospel and substituted the teachings of men. Personally most irritating to me is the action during World War II when the LDS church declared themselves to be neutral and pacifist as far as freedom was concerned. I take that as deleting the teachings of Capt. Moroni concerning the importance of freedom in the Book of Mormon.

Later, in the events surrounding the building of the Temple in communist East Germany, the church actually acted as an agent of the various communist governments, especially those in East Germany, to resist the expansion of US nuclear defense forces in Utah and Nevada. I believe that was a direct quid pro quo for being allowed to build the temple in East Germany, and thus have an excuse to make the East German church members stay in the miserable place called East Germany. Talk about hubris! The church leaders imagined that they could make money by extracting tithing from communist countries, all the time being careful to not irritate the Communists (or the fascists, or any other kinds of totalitarians).

I could go on at length about the church's hostility to individual freedom, the US Constitution, and the legitimate US government, but I won't at the moment.

I do not like to be part of an anti-American fifth column movement in the United States, which the LDS church has been at times in the past. Things have changed a little bit, because now the church can support a Marxist government inside the United States, instead of having to look to East Germany (or Russia or China) for a Marxist government to support. (Of course, they support those too, plus the Marxist globalist people.)

That is quite a digression, but I believe Joseph Smith got it right, Brigham Young basically continued it, as did John Taylor. But it was a greedy self-centered Wilford Woodruff who really started the steep downward arc of the church to the mess it is today. I find it especially egregious that up until the time of Wilford Woodruff, the role of the patriarchs was to hold the sealing power and make that available at the stake level throughout the church, naturally for free. It was the sinister plot of Wilford Woodruff and Lorenzo Snow to take away the powers of the local patriarchs and centralize them, like a good Marxist, so that the church members could then be extorted to make them pay tithing if they wanted to go to the temple to receive those sealing ordinances which they certainly could not get anywhere else. Wilford Woodruff intentionally created a monopoly and exploited it so that he and the other leaders could charge billions of dollars each year for delivering those ordinances which should always have been free. People today seem to have no idea what happened, but that is the basis for the extortion that we see today. Unfortunately, the local leadership supports this extortion through this complex temple recommend system. Otherwise the local church leaders mostly have it right, and most of the big errors are invented and perpetuated at the central offices.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 10th, 2023, 4:21 pm
by Christianlee
So why wouldn’t you consider becoming a member of one of the churches descended from Joseph Smith III? The Restoration branches and the Remnant LDS Church seem to be fairly close to the Restoration as believed before Nauvoo and never asked for an exorbitant amount of money from their members.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 10th, 2023, 5:13 pm
by Leland41-2
Christianlee wrote: March 10th, 2023, 4:21 pm So why wouldn’t you consider becoming a member of one of the churches descended from Joseph Smith III? The Restoration branches and the Remnant LDS Church seem to be fairly close to the Restoration as believed before Nauvoo and never asked for an exorbitant amount of money from their members.
That is an interesting question, and you make a good point. I think the main reason I would stick with the Brighamite branch is simply that they persevered much further before disintegrating. At great cost, Brigham Young did get the Saints to a place where they COULD have continued to live the gospel safely, and John Taylor continued with that project. If Wilford Woodruff had not let Satan tempt him with money and ease and fame and power, we might still be on the right track. Unfortunately, it only takes one weakling to break the chain and stop the whole process, which he did. And no one has had the guts and good sense to get us back on course ever since. History, precedent, and the "traditions of the fathers" are really great at wearing things down to dust. It never lasts more than 200 years, no matter what. See 4 Ne. We are worse than they were.

But the essential gospel lasted up through John Taylor's life, and the Utah church has done some good work on printing and enhancing the Scriptures with study aids. They mostly have not changed the actual text of anything yet, although I think that comes next. Make sure to keep the old editions of your scriptures as references.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 10th, 2023, 6:32 pm
by Bronco73idi
JRM wrote: March 10th, 2023, 3:49 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: March 10th, 2023, 2:07 pm
The Red Pill wrote: March 10th, 2023, 1:51 pm Joseph Smith restored the true gospel to the earth...everything went downhill with his murder.

I think a proper name for the church today is given at the end of 1st Nephi..."The Church of the Devil (TCOTD). It's just part of a larger club now.

That's not hyperbole...

4 attributes distinguish TCOTD. Nephi instructs us to NOT to go after these 4 things.

1. Money (Ensign Peak Advisors)
2. Popularity (Q15/ red-chair worship)
3. Power (disagree and get excommunicated)
4. Lusts of the flesh (SRA, LGBTG worship)
Did he?

In order for him to do so he would have to be a descendant of Ephraim (Jeremiah 31:6-9) and he would have had to taught a “new everlasting covenant” per Jeremiah 31:31……

For Jospeh to be a true prophet, the people who proclaim that he taught a new everlasting covenant would have to be true and correct….

Simple math, unless you think Isaiah is a fake prophet…..

Isaiah 24
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Agreed! I addressed this whole thing in viewtopic.php?t=69754. The true church of Christ was only able to come out of the wilderness briefly, but was driven back until the marvelous work and wonder does actually happen.
9 And he said: Go and tell this people—Hear ye indeed, but they understood not; and see ye indeed, but they perceived not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes—lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted and be healed.

Most of these people’s heart are fat and their ears are heavy….

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 15th, 2023, 10:34 am
by Thinker
Leland41-2 wrote: March 10th, 2023, 1:23 pm... Christ taught a new gospel, but we have ignored it or twisted it into nonsense...
Worse than nonsense - twisted (by Constantine, Eusebius & others) into satanic pretending to drink blood and eat body, human sacrifice scapegoating. Truth is too precious to be handed out on silver platters to be blindly swallowed whole, as is pretended with vain repetitions in church. Truth must be hungered after - worked for - sifting through countless lies. “There must needs be opposition in all things.”

“...if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God” - BofM Intro

"Search the scriptures, search the prophets, and learn what portion of them belongs to you." -Joseph Smith


Image

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 15th, 2023, 12:44 pm
by Shawn Henry
Bronco73idi wrote: March 10th, 2023, 2:07 pm In order for him to do so he would have to be a descendant of Ephraim (Jeremiah 31:6-9) and he would have had to taught a “new everlasting covenant” per Jeremiah 31:31……

For Jospeh to be a true prophet, the people who proclaim that he taught a new everlasting covenant would have to be true and correct….

Simple math, unless you think Isaiah is a fake prophet…..

Isaiah 24
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Joseph was an Ephraimite and he did teach the new and everlasting covenant.

Isaiah's words became fulfilled once the saints changed and broke what JS revealed.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 15th, 2023, 12:53 pm
by Shawn Henry
Leland41-2 wrote: March 10th, 2023, 4:02 pm Joseph Smith got it right, Brigham Young basically continued it
BY undermined just about everything JS taught. BY took the church in the complete opposite direction. He made us a sexist, racist, polygamist, blood atoning, massacring group of hypocrites and he led us out of the promised land into exile while supporting his concubines and wine and tobacco habits off of the backs of the people.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 15th, 2023, 1:24 pm
by Bronco73idi
Shawn Henry wrote: March 15th, 2023, 12:44 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: March 10th, 2023, 2:07 pm In order for him to do so he would have to be a descendant of Ephraim (Jeremiah 31:6-9) and he would have had to taught a “new everlasting covenant” per Jeremiah 31:31……

For Jospeh to be a true prophet, the people who proclaim that he taught a new everlasting covenant would have to be true and correct….

Simple math, unless you think Isaiah is a fake prophet…..

Isaiah 24
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Joseph was an Ephraimite and he did teach the new and everlasting covenant.

Isaiah's words became fulfilled once the saints changed and broke what JS revealed.
I know he was an Ephraimite. I would love to read his direct words or see the direct proof of him teaching the new everlasting covenant.

I believe he taught it, D&C 132

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 15th, 2023, 2:22 pm
by Shawn Henry
Bronco73idi wrote: March 15th, 2023, 1:24 pm I know he was an Ephraimite. I would love to read his direct words or see the direct proof of him teaching the new everlasting covenant.

I believe he taught it, D&C 132
132 only claims to be the new and everlasting covenant, but the language of new and everlasting covenant clearly pre-dates 132. No 132 apologist has ever come up with a good response to that.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 15th, 2023, 2:24 pm
by Bronco73idi
Shawn Henry wrote: March 15th, 2023, 2:22 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: March 15th, 2023, 1:24 pm I know he was an Ephraimite. I would love to read his direct words or see the direct proof of him teaching the new everlasting covenant.

I believe he taught it, D&C 132
132 only claims to be the new and everlasting covenant, but the language of new and everlasting covenant clearly pre-dates 132. No 132 apologist has ever come up with a good response to that.
?

I asked for your source and all you gave me is opinion…

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 15th, 2023, 2:40 pm
by simpleton
Shawn Henry wrote: March 15th, 2023, 12:53 pm
Leland41-2 wrote: March 10th, 2023, 4:02 pm Joseph Smith got it right, Brigham Young basically continued it
BY undermined just about everything JS taught. BY took the church in the complete opposite direction. He made us a sexist, racist, polygamist, blood atoning, massacring group of hypocrites and he led us out of the promised land into exile while supporting his concubines and wine and tobacco habits off of the backs of the people.
BY did no such a thing, you've got it all wrong.
Infact BY took it in the exact direction JS/God told him to, and into every single item of doctrine you like to &!@$# about about.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 16th, 2023, 1:52 am
by Luke
Shawn Henry wrote: March 15th, 2023, 12:53 pm
Leland41-2 wrote: March 10th, 2023, 4:02 pm Joseph Smith got it right, Brigham Young basically continued it
BY undermined just about everything JS taught. BY took the church in the complete opposite direction. He made us a sexist, racist, polygamist, blood atoning, massacring group of hypocrites and he led us out of the promised land into exile while supporting his concubines and wine and tobacco habits off of the backs of the people.
“Racist”, “sexist”, oh please. Can’t you see you’re using the exact same arguments as wokeites?

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 16th, 2023, 11:24 am
by Shawn Henry
Bronco73idi wrote: March 15th, 2023, 2:24 pm I asked for your source and all you gave me is opinion…
You didn't ask me for a source, you simply said: "I would love to read his direct words or see the direct proof..."

If you have yet to do a key word search for New and Everlasting Covenant to see how it has been used in scripture prior to 132, I highly recommend you do that and that you do it on your own, as it will have more meaning to you that way. Knowledge we attain for ourselves is always more important to us.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 16th, 2023, 11:27 am
by Shawn Henry
Luke wrote: March 16th, 2023, 1:52 am “Racist”, “sexist”, oh please. Can’t you see you’re using the exact same arguments as wokeites?
Wow Luke! Who can possibly respond to such an intellectual retort! I guess you win this round, lol.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 16th, 2023, 11:34 am
by Bronco73idi
Shawn Henry wrote: March 16th, 2023, 11:24 am
Bronco73idi wrote: March 15th, 2023, 2:24 pm I asked for your source and all you gave me is opinion…
You didn't ask me for a source, you simply said: "I would love to read his direct words or see the direct proof..."

If you have yet to do a key word search for New and Everlasting Covenant to see how it has been used in scripture prior to 132, I highly recommend you do that and that you do it on your own, as it will have more meaning to you that way. Knowledge we attain for ourselves is always more important to us.
So this dispensation is damned because we haven’t gotten baptized?

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 16th, 2023, 11:38 am
by Luke
Shawn Henry wrote: March 16th, 2023, 11:27 am
Luke wrote: March 16th, 2023, 1:52 am “Racist”, “sexist”, oh please. Can’t you see you’re using the exact same arguments as wokeites?
Wow Luke! Who can possibly respond to such an intellectual retort! I guess you win this round, lol.
I’ll take that as a “no” then.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 16th, 2023, 11:47 am
by Shawn Henry
simpleton wrote: March 15th, 2023, 2:40 pm BY did no such a thing, you've got it all wrong.
Infact BY took it in the exact direction JS/God told him to, and into every single item of doctrine you like to &!@$# about about.
So I have it all wrong because you say so? Is that how it works? When your emotional investiture is threatened you are automatically entitled to be able to throw down the emotional 'get out of jail free' card and thereby are relieved of any obligation to respond with facts or intellect.

Please, back up your statement that Joseph told BY to teach those things.

Where are the quotes from Joseph showing that he taught BY to stop allowing women to bless the sick?

Where are the quotes from Joseph showing that he taught BY to stop giving blacks the priesthood and ban them from saving ordinances?

Where are the quotes from Joseph showing that he taught BY to stop teaching monogamy and start teaching the abomination known as polygamy?

Where did he teach BY to teach blood atonement? Is there a revelation from the Lord about blood atonement or should we stick to the scriptures that teach that only the blood of a God is sufficient?

Also, do you care to explain how BY became the richest man in Salt Lake? Where did that money come from, if not from tithing? Why is history void of BY out earning a living at his trade? Why does no one talk about how he set up his shop and worked extra hours to buy a second mansion in St George and to feed all his 50 plus wives? I know why, because it never happened. He helped himself to tithing funds.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 16th, 2023, 11:50 am
by Shawn Henry
Bronco73idi wrote: March 16th, 2023, 11:34 am So this dispensation is damned because we haven’t gotten baptized?
We, and all of Christianity, are offered a preparatory baptism. That will suffice until we are offered a baptism under the fulness.

That's all anyone has to do. Hold on faithfully to what you have received and you will eventually receive more.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 16th, 2023, 11:58 am
by Shawn Henry
Luke wrote: March 16th, 2023, 11:38 am I’ll take that as a “no” then.
"Wokeites", don't have a monopoly on things they say or do. Are you going to stop using toilet paper because woke people wipe with toilet paper?

JS allowed women to bless and anoint with oil. BY changed that, as if he knew better than JS. That my friend is sexism. That is sexism in any universe, with or without woke people.

It's very telling how you never defend the prophet Joseph in his decision to empower women.

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 16th, 2023, 12:14 pm
by Bronco73idi
Shawn Henry wrote: March 16th, 2023, 11:50 am
Bronco73idi wrote: March 16th, 2023, 11:34 am So this dispensation is damned because we haven’t gotten baptized?
We, and all of Christianity, are offered a preparatory baptism. That will suffice until we are offered a baptism under the fulness.

That's all anyone has to do. Hold on faithfully to what you have received and you will eventually receive more.
Isn’t this a theme with 99% of Christianity?

Re: The Failed/Fake LDS Church – The New FLDS Church

Posted: March 16th, 2023, 12:22 pm
by Shawn Henry
Bronco73idi wrote: March 16th, 2023, 12:14 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: March 16th, 2023, 11:50 am
Bronco73idi wrote: March 16th, 2023, 11:34 am So this dispensation is damned because we haven’t gotten baptized?
We, and all of Christianity, are offered a preparatory baptism. That will suffice until we are offered a baptism under the fulness.

That's all anyone has to do. Hold on faithfully to what you have received and you will eventually receive more.
Isn’t this a theme with 99% of Christianity?
I don't know about that, but I know all anyone can do, is to do the best with what they have and always seek more.