Jacob chapter 2 is ALL about temporal laws and commandments and the devastating consequences that all forms of sexual sin including polygamy rent upon the Nephites civilization. The Lord is clearly not talking about raising seed in eternity when he makes the rare telestial exceptions to this law. Apples to oranges.Baurak Ale wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 3:47 pmThe promises of Abraham and increase of seed go beyond this world. Joseph Smith marrying older women (or Brigham doing the same) provides seed unto the Lord in the eternities. To God, he views covenants and promises without regard for the wasting away of physical bodies.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 1:42 pmUh,oh.LDS Physician wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 1:29 pmHe didn't want them to generate children, BA ...Baurak Ale wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 11:58 am
Levity is not a winning characteristic.
Going back to the graph, how do you 'grapple' with Brigham's wives who were well beyond child-bearing years? Why do you think he would marry such women?
The ONLY exception the Lord granted was when He saw fit to raise up seed. He certainly never called it a New and Everlasting Covenant, the Fullness of the Priesthood, or the only means to exaltation in the scriptures!
Screenshot_20230312-153835.png So marrying barren women and old widows might sound noble on the surface, but is clearly NOT permitted by the Lord.
Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
The few exceptions in mortality is polygamy. The law of heaven is monogamy.Baurak Ale wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 3:47 pmThe promises of Abraham and increase of seed go beyond this world. Joseph Smith marrying older women (or Brigham doing the same) provides seed unto the Lord in the eternities. To God, he views covenants and promises without regard for the wasting away of physical bodies.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 1:42 pmUh,oh.LDS Physician wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 1:29 pmHe didn't want them to generate children, BA ...Baurak Ale wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 11:58 am
Levity is not a winning characteristic.
Going back to the graph, how do you 'grapple' with Brigham's wives who were well beyond child-bearing years? Why do you think he would marry such women?
The ONLY exception the Lord granted was when He saw fit to raise up seed. He certainly never called it a New and Everlasting Covenant, the Fullness of the Priesthood, or the only means to exaltation in the scriptures!
Screenshot_20230312-153835.png So marrying barren women and old widows might sound noble on the surface, but is clearly NOT permitted by the Lord.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
uh huh, that makes sense, Joseph had 30 but he only let those chumps have one extra. What were all of Joseph's wedding dates again? and the fruit/offspring? Why didn't Joseph keep better records since he was commanded to by the Lord, and was told if they weren't recorded on Earth then they wouldn't be recorded in Heaven?JLHPROF wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 8:45 amWell those dozens were Joseph's widows...ransomme wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 8:15 amBruh, it is just a coincidence that B.Young and HC Kimball only had like one plural wife before Joseph died, and then a dozen within months after Joseph & Hyrum's murders.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 11th, 2023, 8:06 pmThe explosion of abuse (sorry, marriages) after Joseph was murdered, should speak volumes.Luke wrote: ↑March 11th, 2023, 7:57 pm
Two things:
1. They didn’t murder him—you are just delusional.
2. They didn’t tell anyone anything until eight years later. They continued to do what Joseph did (i.e. lie to the public) about it until they were safe in Salt Lake. If they were what you said they are, why didn’t they just tell the world straight away? No-one seems to want to address this.
Delusional indeed.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
And you usually seem reasonable, but not today sir, not today. Maybe EQ has you upset stillRobin Hood wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 9:15 amYep.ransomme wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 8:09 amDo you mean to say that it was unreasonable for the US government to send an army out (across a treacherous journey, across Indian lands) to check on newly acquired lands (from Mexico), that were settled by a people that were led by men that fled the law after they were indicted, which group fled US territory for Mexico when they left, which group had a militia, the Mormon Battalion, was growing in number, etc., and which people religiously swore by blood oaths to curse and take revenge on the US government? Really? Did it seem heavy-handed and particularly laden with persecution?Robin Hood wrote: ↑March 11th, 2023, 2:38 pmI'm talking about when the army was sent to Utah. Nothing to do with the Nauvoo Legion or Gen. Joseph Smith.ransomme wrote: ↑March 11th, 2023, 1:19 pm
This is an oversell on having "the army SENT after them", especially since the "Mormons" had a large militia, and Joseph was General Joseph. Don't be brainwashed by the Brighamites and Church Inc.'s version of history. Of course, there is a lot more to all this, but Brighamites won't listen anyway. They are as stubborn and more than TBM's.
Context, context, context.
But maybe if I can come up with a few quotes decades later I will have a shot with the Brighamites...
And my point is, that there were a number of federal aggressions against the Saints in what became Utah, which would clearly have contributed significantly to the "us against the world" mentality amongst the Saints.
It's pretty obvious when you think about it.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
What are you talking about? That is ridiculous hyperbole. Go reread your history again.Luke wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 9:18 amCompletely unreasonable. It’s the 1850s equivalent of launching an invasion on Iraq, Libya, or Syria. It wasn’t US territory. They had no business there whatsoever. Completely unnecessary and wrong.ransomme wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 8:09 amDo you mean to say that it was unreasonable for the US government to send an army out (across a treacherous journey, across Indian lands) to check on newly acquired lands (from Mexico), that were settled by a people that were led by men that fled the law after they were indicted, which group fled US territory for Mexico when they left, which group had a militia, the Mormon Battalion, was growing in number, etc., and which people religiously swore by blood oaths to curse and take revenge on the US government? Really? Did it seem heavy-handed and particularly laden with persecution?Robin Hood wrote: ↑March 11th, 2023, 2:38 pmI'm talking about when the army was sent to Utah. Nothing to do with the Nauvoo Legion or Gen. Joseph Smith.ransomme wrote: ↑March 11th, 2023, 1:19 pm
This is an oversell on having "the army SENT after them", especially since the "Mormons" had a large militia, and Joseph was General Joseph. Don't be brainwashed by the Brighamites and Church Inc.'s version of history. Of course, there is a lot more to all this, but Brighamites won't listen anyway. They are as stubborn and more than TBM's.
Context, context, context.
But maybe if I can come up with a few quotes decades later I will have a shot with the Brighamites...
And my point is, that there were a number of federal aggressions against the Saints in what became Utah, which would clearly have contributed significantly to the "us against the world" mentality amongst the Saints.
It's pretty obvious when you think about it.
The Church started settling in Utah on July 24, 1847. The US acquired the land with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo on Feb. 2, 1848. Utah was incorporated on Sept. 9, 1850. The Mormon rebellion/Utah War/Utah Expedition happened in 1857/58, some 7+ years after Utah was incorporated. It wasn't really a war and 80% of the 150 casualties were the Mormons killing 120 civilians in the infamous Mountain Meadows Massacre.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
Actually, the survey says that a Sense of Humor is one of the leading traits people look for in selecting a partner. Just saying...Baurak Ale wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 11:58 amLevity is not a winning characteristic.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 11:18 amHaha… sure, justify that however you like. I love how Briggy played the “proxy” husband for all of those women. Even taking some women away from MARRIED, living, men.Luke wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 11:16 amYeah—because they were all Joseph’s wives and needed to be married off. Of course there’s going to be a load of marriages when a husband of 30+ dies. But it’s not what you’re describing it to be—as if polygamous marriages only begun in substance when JS died. These were wives he had acquired over a period of a few years.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 11:14 am
What do you call this? It’s like these men were just waiting to… umm…. *cough*
“Well fellas, I’m gonna take one for the team.”
Going back to the graph, how do you 'grapple' with Brigham's wives who were well beyond child-bearing years? Why do you think he would marry such women?
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
I see a couple responses to me now about a sense of humor. Why?ransomme wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 8:44 pmActually, the survey says that a Sense of Humor is one of the leading traits people look for in selecting a partner. Just saying...Baurak Ale wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 11:58 amLevity is not a winning characteristic.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 11:18 amHaha… sure, justify that however you like. I love how Briggy played the “proxy” husband for all of those women. Even taking some women away from MARRIED, living, men.Luke wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 11:16 am
Yeah—because they were all Joseph’s wives and needed to be married off. Of course there’s going to be a load of marriages when a husband of 30+ dies. But it’s not what you’re describing it to be—as if polygamous marriages only begun in substance when JS died. These were wives he had acquired over a period of a few years.
“Well fellas, I’m gonna take one for the team.”
Going back to the graph, how do you 'grapple' with Brigham's wives who were well beyond child-bearing years? Why do you think he would marry such women?
Levity ≠ sense of humor
One is a sin, the other is a good quality.
My wife loves that I make her laugh every day.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
At least you can now have "loud laughter" since that has been removed from the temple ceremony.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
Whew..... I'm safe now ;DReluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 13th, 2023, 9:52 am At least you can now have "loud laughter" since that has been removed from the temple ceremony.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
Interesting moral compassBaurak Ale wrote: ↑March 13th, 2023, 9:05 amI see a couple responses to me now about a sense of humor. Why?ransomme wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 8:44 pmActually, the survey says that a Sense of Humor is one of the leading traits people look for in selecting a partner. Just saying...Baurak Ale wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 11:58 amLevity is not a winning characteristic.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 11:18 am
Haha… sure, justify that however you like. I love how Briggy played the “proxy” husband for all of those women. Even taking some women away from MARRIED, living, men.
“Well fellas, I’m gonna take one for the team.”
Going back to the graph, how do you 'grapple' with Brigham's wives who were well beyond child-bearing years? Why do you think he would marry such women?
Levity ≠ sense of humor
One is a sin, the other is a good quality.
My wife loves that I make her laugh every day.
Polygamy, or as the Lord called it, abomination and whoredom, is not a sin
&
Levity is a sin
Ok then...
Fun fact Jesus used sarcasm on several occasions in the Bible
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
Nobility like David, Solomon, King Noah, and Riplakish.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 12:09 pmNobility… really? You guys have turned an abomination into an idol.JLHPROF wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 12:03 pmHe doesn't grapple with it.Baurak Ale wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 11:58 amLevity is not a winning characteristic.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 11:18 am
Haha… sure, justify that however you like. I love how Briggy played the “proxy” husband for all of those women. Even taking some women away from MARRIED, living, men.
“Well fellas, I’m gonna take one for the team.”
Going back to the graph, how do you 'grapple' with Brigham's wives who were well beyond child-bearing years? Why do you think he would marry such women?
The polygamy conspiracy crowd are completely incapable of seeing any nobility in polygamy. Throw in their misplaced hatred of Brigham Young and the smorgasbord approach to Joseph's historical records and they simply don't have to grapple with anything they don't like.
Just blame Brigham and walk away.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
Nobility like Abraham, Israel, Moses, Gideon, the Brother of Jared, the Prophet Joseph, and the Savior.Alexander wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 4:01 pmNobility like David, Solomon, King Noah, and Riplakish.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 12:09 pmNobility… really? You guys have turned an abomination into an idol.JLHPROF wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 12:03 pmHe doesn't grapple with it.Baurak Ale wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 11:58 am
Levity is not a winning characteristic.
Going back to the graph, how do you 'grapple' with Brigham's wives who were well beyond child-bearing years? Why do you think he would marry such women?
The polygamy conspiracy crowd are completely incapable of seeing any nobility in polygamy. Throw in their misplaced hatred of Brigham Young and the smorgasbord approach to Joseph's historical records and they simply don't have to grapple with anything they don't like.
Just blame Brigham and walk away.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
No no, you’ve got it wrong. Jesus was queer.JLHPROF wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 5:35 pmNobility like Abraham, Israel, Moses, Gideon, the Brother of Jared, the Prophet Joseph, and the Savior.Alexander wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 4:01 pmNobility like David, Solomon, King Noah, and Riplakish.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 12:09 pmNobility… really? You guys have turned an abomination into an idol.JLHPROF wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 12:03 pm
He doesn't grapple with it.
The polygamy conspiracy crowd are completely incapable of seeing any nobility in polygamy. Throw in their misplaced hatred of Brigham Young and the smorgasbord approach to Joseph's historical records and they simply don't have to grapple with anything they don't like.
Just blame Brigham and walk away.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
Yeah, you've said that before.Alexander wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 6:05 pmNo no, you’ve got it wrong. Jesus was queer.JLHPROF wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 5:35 pmNobility like Abraham, Israel, Moses, Gideon, the Brother of Jared, the Prophet Joseph, and the Savior.Alexander wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 4:01 pmNobility like David, Solomon, King Noah, and Riplakish.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 12th, 2023, 12:09 pm
Nobility… really? You guys have turned an abomination into an idol.
His wives beg to differ.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
They had giant faggy celestial orgies
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
Did they get rid of their wives after being renamed?
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
They did not have any more children with them.Luke wrote: ↑March 18th, 2023, 7:36 amDid they get rid of their wives after being renamed?
Why get rid of handmaids, who were only doing what their respective masters commanded them to do? How would that recompense them?
In Jacob's case, Leah did go away. Though, it's unclear if that was simply due to irreconcilable contentions in the household. Sad situation.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
Here are few videos that do a good job of expressing doubt about Joseph Smith being a polygamist:
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
HA HA HA HA HA....Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 13th, 2023, 9:52 am At least you can now have "loud laughter" since that has been removed from the temple ceremony.
doesn't feel the same now.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
Here is additional evidence that Joseph did reveal section 132 back in 1843.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
I'm glad we can now include "loud laughter."
It's funny he uses the word "facts" when discussing church history.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
So you don't believe they held a council or that they didn't discuss section 132 topics in that 1843 high council meeting?Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 18th, 2023, 7:03 pmI'm glad we can now include "loud laughter."
It's funny he uses the word "facts" when discussing church history.
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Re: Polygamy Killed Honesty, Rob F.
I’ve heard about that council meeting, whatever was discussed it wasn’t what Brigham rolled out later on. Subsequent discourses by the Smiths would suggest otherwise.onefour1 wrote: ↑March 18th, 2023, 8:45 pmSo you don't believe they held a council or that they didn't discuss section 132 topics in that 1843 high council meeting?Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 18th, 2023, 7:03 pmI'm glad we can now include "loud laughter."
It's funny he uses the word "facts" when discussing church history.