What does it mean to sustain somebody?

[endlessQuestions]

The culturally conditioned member of the Church misses the mark most often because they simply don't understand how the adversary uses his power and influence to change people's perception of what words mean.

You all have seen and talked about at length how the Church has changed the meaning of the word "interest" as it relates to tithing

How about the word "sustain"?

https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dict ... %20relieve.

The leaders are the ornaments.

We are the foundation.

We must endure. Suffer through their mistakes. Bear their iniquities. Maintain our faith in spite of their mistakes, and support them as they learn and grow in faith and capacity.

We musn't give up on them, but neither should we tolerate their foolishness.

We must sustain them, or the whole edifice falls.

[BeNotDeceived]

… the whole edifice falls.

Were you expecting something else.

[endlessQuestions]

… the whole edifice falls.

Were you expecting something else.

To be honest, yes.

[ransomme]

The culturally conditioned member of the Church misses the mark most often because they simply don't understand how the adversary uses his power and influence to change people's perception of what words mean.

You all have seen and talked about at length how the Church has changed the meaning of the word "interest" as it relates to tithing

How about the word "sustain"?

https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dict ... %20relieve.

The leaders are the ornaments.

We are the foundation.

We must endure. Suffer through their mistakes. Bear their iniquities. Maintain our faith in spite of their mistakes, and support them as they learn and grow in faith and capacity.

We musn't give up on them, but neither should we tolerate their foolishness.

We must sustain them, or the whole edifice falls.

1. Man they are piling on quite the burden for us pillars to bear. I wonder what will be the last straw?
2. Well we aren't allowed to keep them from falling, because if we don't agree we get uninvited to the wedding (as they see it)

[ransomme]

there is a Finnish saying, "the whole body suffers from a stupid head"

[Shawn Henry]

The whole edifice already fell. That's what being rejected as a church with your dead means. The bride of Christ has become the adulterous bride of Christ.

Apostles are to be sustained as apostles. They had no authority to reform the First Presidency and are therefore only apostles. I sustain them in going out in the mission field without purse or script.

[The Red Pill]

The culturally conditioned member of the Church misses the mark most often because they simply don't understand how the adversary uses his power and influence to change people's perception of what words mean.

You all have seen and talked about at length how the Church has changed the meaning of the word "interest" as it relates to tithing

How about the word "sustain"?

https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dict ... %20relieve.

The leaders are the ornaments.

We are the foundation.

We must endure. Suffer through their mistakes. Bear their iniquities. Maintain our faith in spite of their mistakes, and support them as they learn and grow in faith and capacity.

We musn't give up on them, but neither should we tolerate their foolishness.

We must sustain them, or the whole edifice falls.

Using the same logic, but applied to our founding fathers and America as the foundation.

Do you sustain Joe Biden? Do you support Joe Biden and his cabinet...as they "learn and grow in their capacity?

At some point we have to admit the building isn't in need of a remodel...it needs to be demolished.

[iWriteStuff]

I sustain them in going out in the mission field without purse or script.

Now wouldn't that be interesting to watch! How many would remain apostles if they had to do it for free, or at their own expense?

[Dusty Wanderer]

The culturally conditioned member of the Church misses the mark most often because they simply don't understand how the adversary uses his power and influence to change people's perception of what words mean.

You all have seen and talked about at length how the Church has changed the meaning of the word "interest" as it relates to tithing

How about the word "sustain"?

https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dict ... %20relieve.

The leaders are the ornaments.

We are the foundation.

We must endure. Suffer through their mistakes. Bear their iniquities. Maintain our faith in spite of their mistakes, and support them as they learn and grow in faith and capacity.

We musn't give up on them, but neither should we tolerate their foolishness.

We must sustain them, or the whole edifice falls.

Someone might suggest, subtle changes.

[oneClimbs]

Here's my take for what it is worth: https://oneclimbs.com/2012/01/03/sustai ... -the-lord/

[Gadianton Slayer]

From LDS.org: "When we sustain Church leaders and actions, we are keeping covenants."

Anyone care to explain how part of your covenants includes listening to a man?

[Subcomandante]

From the 1828 Webster's Dictionary:

1. To bear; to uphold; to support; as, a foundation sustains the superstructure; pillars sustain an edifice; a beast sustains a load.

2. To hold; to keep from falling; as, a rope sustains a weight.

3. To support; to keep from sinking in despondence. The hope of a better life sustains the afflicted amidst all their sorrows.

4. To maintain; to keep alive; to support; to subsist; as provisions to sustain a family or an army.

5. To support in any condition by aid; to assist or relieve.

His sons, who seek the tyrant to sustain

6. To bear; to endure without failing or yielding. The mind stands collected and sustains the shock.

Shall Turnus then such endless toil sustain?

7. To suffer; to bear; to undergo.

You shall sustain more new disgraces.

8. To maintain; to support; not to dismiss or abate. Notwithstanding the plea in bar or in abatement, the court sustained the action or suit.

9. To maintain as a sufficient ground. The testimony or the evidence is not sufficient to sustain the action, the accusation, the charges, or the impeachment.

In blue: How I view most members' ideas of the definition of Sustain as part of sustaining the leadership.
In red: Some definitions of sustain that I have viewed.
In green: My definition of sustain after years of going through the blue phase and then the red phase.

Supporting the leadership does not necessarily mean that you give them a carte blanche to let them do whatever the hell they want. When they are messing up, they need to know when they are messing up, yet I doubt that an internet forum is the way to address grievances. It's gotta be done directly through local and then general leadership.

[Gadianton Slayer]

[CuriousThinker]

From the 1828 Webster's Dictionary:

1. To bear; to uphold; to support; as, a foundation sustains the superstructure; pillars sustain an edifice; a beast sustains a load.

2. To hold; to keep from falling; as, a rope sustains a weight.

3. To support; to keep from sinking in despondence. The hope of a better life sustains the afflicted amidst all their sorrows.

4. To maintain; to keep alive; to support; to subsist; as provisions to sustain a family or an army.

5. To support in any condition by aid; to assist or relieve.

His sons, who seek the tyrant to sustain

6. To bear; to endure without failing or yielding. The mind stands collected and sustains the shock.

Shall Turnus then such endless toil sustain?

7. To suffer; to bear; to undergo.

You shall sustain more new disgraces.

8. To maintain; to support; not to dismiss or abate. Notwithstanding the plea in bar or in abatement, the court sustained the action or suit.

9. To maintain as a sufficient ground. The testimony or the evidence is not sufficient to sustain the action, the accusation, the charges, or the impeachment.

In blue: How I view most members' ideas of the definition of Sustain as part of sustaining the leadership.
In red: Some definitions of sustain that I have viewed.
In green: My definition of sustain after years of going through the blue phase and then the red phase.

Supporting the leadership does not necessarily mean that you give them a carte blanche to let them do whatever the hell they want. When they are messing up, they need to know when they are messing up, yet I doubt that an internet forum is the way to address grievances. It's gotta be done directly through local and then general leadership.

Other than saying you oppose, local leadership will not doing anything if you have a grievance with anyone over them, and even then they will probably excommunicate or take a recommend. There is a ceiling for grievances and they only go as high as the Stake President, unless you are very vocal. Then the higher ups hear about it and you still get excommunicated if you keep talking. So, how does one go about saying anything about the leaders?

[Reluctant Watchman]

The leaders are the ornaments.

We are the foundation.

Christ is the foundation.

[Fight for the right]

Here's my take for what it is worth: https://oneclimbs.com/2012/01/03/sustai ... -the-lord/

Thanks for your post, it gave me something to think about as I am struggling right now in sustaining the General Authorities. (Just to be clear regardless of my sustaining or not I know that it is still Christ's Church and I will never leave.) I'm not gonna say he did this or he did that or he didn't do this or that. I have taken it to the Lord. He knows my heart.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Just to be clear regardless of my sustaining or not I know that it is still Christ's Church and I will never leave.

Jesus already left the building... I'm sure He'll allow you to stay wherever you feel comfortable.

[Fight for the right]

Always got an answer don't ya Watchman.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Always got an answer don't ya Watchman.

[Dusty Wanderer]

The culturally conditioned member of the Church misses the mark most often because they simply don't understand how the adversary uses his power and influence to change people's perception of what words mean.

You all have seen and talked about at length how the Church has changed the meaning of the word "interest" as it relates to tithing

How about the word "sustain"?

https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dict ... %20relieve.

The leaders are the ornaments.

We are the foundation.

We must endure. Suffer through their mistakes. Bear their iniquities. Maintain our faith in spite of their mistakes, and support them as they learn and grow in faith and capacity.

We musn't give up on them, but neither should we tolerate their foolishness.

We must sustain them, or the whole edifice falls.

Using the same logic, but applied to our founding fathers and America as the foundation.

Do you sustain Joe Biden? Do you support Joe Biden and his cabinet...as they "learn and grow in their capacity?

At some point we have to admit the building isn't in need of a remodel...it needs to be demolished.

I get your analogy, and I know you were asking EQ, but it did get me thinking.

The major difference I see is that me and ole' Joe haven't entered into a mutual covenant to bear one another's burdens, etc, etc.

Now, I must admit a little of my hypocrisy, because me and Mittens Romney have entered into the same covenant and I don't afford him the same leniency that I extend to President Nelson. (But I also haven't sustained him in any office pertaining to the keys of the priesthood.) If anything, I expect much, much more from Mitt than I ever would of ole Joe.

[endlessQuestions]

The leaders are the ornaments.

We are the foundation.

Christ is the foundation.

Not in this context.

But you know that.

[Reluctant Watchman]

The leaders are the ornaments.

We are the foundation.

Christ is the foundation.

Not in this context.

But you know that.

No. Not in this context. God is no respecter of persons. Set apart or not, we can all approach God. In a righteous church, we should hold true/actual prophets in high regard, yet verify all they say through the HG.

[oneClimbs]

Here's my take for what it is worth: https://oneclimbs.com/2012/01/03/sustai ... -the-lord/

Thanks for your post, it gave me something to think about as I am struggling right now in sustaining the General Authorities. (Just to be clear regardless of my sustaining or not I know that it is still Christ's Church and I will never leave.) I'm not gonna say he did this or he did that or he didn't do this or that. I have taken it to the Lord. He knows my heart.

Glad it could be helpful in some way. This is tough call, I get where people are coming from on all sides of this and there are strong points to be made. On one hand, I feel like the current administration totally failed us on the Covid thing and I would appreciate at least an apology. I think some people should step down. One thing that I think we can't do is judge the hearts of people, but we can and should judge their actions. Weakness is one thing, mistakes and mortal failures are another thing, and outright transgression and wickedness are another.

My wife and I were talking about two people we know who are suffering immensely from taking those shots and boosters. They were encouraged to do so and even pressured by spiritual leaders to do so, to take experimental gene therapy that was said to be a "literal godsend." We can't just forget about this because others cannot, they are in a living hell due to evil designs that were meant to hurt people and those that should be watchmen on the tower told us to go to the wolves.

When I see the government, media, Hollywood, Pharma, etc. all combining and coming to the same rash point while silencing all dissent and imposing experimental medical intervention with as much force as possible, my B.S. detector goes wild. How wise men with experience and revelatory access for the church didn't see the same thing is a deep concern to me. Even more concerning is how we are well down this path without any other counsel to the contrary!

So there are just three options that I can think of.

1) our leaders are blind or otherwise incapable of seeing certain threats
2) our leaders are willing participants in the ruse.
3) our leaders are right and anyone who didn't get the shot is going to die or suffer for disobedience.

Maybe other options exist and maybe my three options are too reductive.

I think you've chosen the best option, and that's to take it to the Lord. He may not reveal to us what the actual state of things is, but I think he will reveal what we should do.

If anything, we should be praying for anyone in a leadership role, whether ecclesiastical or political. No man is our enemy, they are a brother. The power of prayer can have an impact, we know this from Paul, to Alma the elder, to Alma the Younger, to Zeezrom, to King Lamoni and his father. If we believe in Christ, we believe that the vilest sinner can become the greatest saint. I think many of our leaders are just like us, confused and lost and could use our prayer an support to find the right way.

[Cruiserdude]

Here's my take for what it is worth: https://oneclimbs.com/2012/01/03/sustai ... -the-lord/

Thanks for your post, it gave me something to think about as I am struggling right now in sustaining the General Authorities. (Just to be clear regardless of my sustaining or not I know that it is still Christ's Church and I will never leave.) I'm not gonna say he did this or he did that or he didn't do this or that. I have taken it to the Lord. He knows my heart.

Glad it could be helpful in some way. This is tough call, I get where people are coming from on all sides of this and there are strong points to be made. On one hand, I feel like the current administration totally failed us on the Covid thing and I would appreciate at least an apology. I think some people should step down. One thing that I think we can't do is judge the hearts of people, but we can and should judge their actions. Weakness is one thing, mistakes and mortal failures are another thing, and outright transgression and wickedness are another.

My wife and I were talking about two people we know who are suffering immensely from taking those shots and boosters. They were encouraged to do so and even pressured by spiritual leaders to do so, to take experimental gene therapy that was said to be a "literal godsend." We can't just forget about this because others cannot, they are in a living hell due to evil designs that were meant to hurt people and those that should be watchmen on the tower told us to go to the wolves.

When I see the government, media, Hollywood, Pharma, etc. all combining and coming to the same rash point while silencing all dissent and imposing experimental medical intervention with as much force as possible, my B.S. detector goes wild. How wise men with experience and revelatory access for the church didn't see the same thing is a deep concern to me. Even more concerning is how we are well down this path without any other counsel to the contrary!

So there are just three options that I can think of.

1) our leaders are blind or otherwise incapable of seeing certain threats
2) our leaders are willing participants in the ruse.
3) our leaders are right and anyone who didn't get the shot is going to die or suffer for disobedience.

Maybe other options exist and maybe my three options are too reductive.

I think you've chosen the best option, and that's to take it to the Lord. He may not reveal to us what the actual state of things is, but I think he will reveal what we should do.

If anything, we should be praying for anyone in a leadership role, whether ecclesiastical or political. No man is our enemy, they are a brother. The power of prayer can have an impact, we know this from Paul, to Alma the elder, to Alma the Younger, to Zeezrom, to King Lamoni and his father. If we believe in Christ, we believe that the vilest sinner can become the greatest saint. I think many of our leaders are just like us, confused and lost and could use our prayer an support to find the right way.

Reminded me of my favorite saying from Brother Brooks at Rick's College back in 90s, my Book of Mormon 101 teacher, he said:

There is no saint without a past, there is no sinner without a future.

That was BURNED into my mind at the time and has allowed me to looks at ALL of my brothers and sisters for who we truly are.... Children of eternal royalty.

Great post, oneclimbs

[Fight for the right]

Here's my take for what it is worth: https://oneclimbs.com/2012/01/03/sustai ... -the-lord/

Thanks for your post, it gave me something to think about as I am struggling right now in sustaining the General Authorities. (Just to be clear regardless of my sustaining or not I know that it is still Christ's Church and I will never leave.) I'm not gonna say he did this or he did that or he didn't do this or that. I have taken it to the Lord. He knows my heart.

Glad it could be helpful in some way. This is tough call, I get where people are coming from on all sides of this and there are strong points to be made. On one hand, I feel like the current administration totally failed us on the Covid thing and I would appreciate at least an apology. I think some people should step down. One thing that I think we can't do is judge the hearts of people, but we can and should judge their actions. Weakness is one thing, mistakes and mortal failures are another thing, and outright transgression and wickedness are another.

My wife and I were talking about two people we know who are suffering immensely from taking those shots and boosters. They were encouraged to do so and even pressured by spiritual leaders to do so, to take experimental gene therapy that was said to be a "literal godsend." We can't just forget about this because others cannot, they are in a living hell due to evil designs that were meant to hurt people and those that should be watchmen on the tower told us to go to the wolves.

When I see the government, media, Hollywood, Pharma, etc. all combining and coming to the same rash point while silencing all dissent and imposing experimental medical intervention with as much force as possible, my B.S. detector goes wild. How wise men with experience and revelatory access for the church didn't see the same thing is a deep concern to me. Even more concerning is how we are well down this path without any other counsel to the contrary!

So there are just three options that I can think of.

1) our leaders are blind or otherwise incapable of seeing certain threats
2) our leaders are willing participants in the ruse.
3) our leaders are right and anyone who didn't get the shot is going to die or suffer for disobedience.

Maybe other options exist and maybe my three options are too reductive.

I think you've chosen the best option, and that's to take it to the Lord. He may not reveal to us what the actual state of things is, but I think he will reveal what we should do.

If anything, we should be praying for anyone in a leadership role, whether ecclesiastical or political. No man is our enemy, they are a brother. The power of prayer can have an impact, we know this from Paul, to Alma the elder, to Alma the Younger, to Zeezrom, to King Lamoni and his father. If we believe in Christ, we believe that the vilest sinner can become the greatest saint. I think many of our leaders are just like us, confused and lost and could use our prayer an support to find the right way.

Very well said. I think many of our leaders do not have very much experience in being out in the world. President Nelson being a doctor and having seen vaccines work over his long life has put his faith in the pharmaceutical companies and wanting the Church to be a leader in what he thought was doing the right thing. I don't think he did anything maliciously. I think Pres Nelson has put to much trust in Church lawyers who are I think wanting the Church to become a friend of the world which is an enemy to God. Would praying for leadership be considered sustaining them.