Second Anointing's Given by Joseph Smith

[HereWeGo]

I'm turning to the experts here on the site. Who received a second anointing from Joseph Smith? Is there verifiable documentation as to these second anointings? To me, being told something is hearsay without documentation.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I can't find it off hand, but I did read an entry in an early saints' journal that he received his second anointing from Joseph Smith. I think I have the journal on my computer, but I've got 2 or 3 dozen of them. This is from the Doctrines of the Gospel Teacher's Manual.

"Caution: Exercise caution while discussing the doctrine of having our calling and election made sure. Avoid speculation. Use only the sources given here and in the student manual. Do not attempt in any way to discuss or answer questions about the second anointing." (p 67)

I believe this to be false doctrine because only God can make your calling and election sure. Only God - not man - can pass final judgment on a person because that is what your C&E does: it is a final judgment that you are worthy of exaltation.

[CaptainM]

I'm sure Brigham Young, Lyman Wight, James Strang, Joseph Smith III, Sidney Rigdon, the Smith boys, and many other false prophets did. Probably most of JS wives and friends who believed in the precepts of men and followed a so-called prophet and not the Savior.

[Luke]

I'm turning to the experts here on the site. Who received a second anointing from Joseph Smith? Is there verifiable documentation as to these second anointings? To me, being told something is hearsay without documentation.

Most references are in Joseph’s journal which you can find on the JSP website. There’s others too. I’ll dig them up.

[The Red Pill]

Since Joseph taught that the 2nd anointing HAD TO BE from Christ directly...I think anything outside of that constraint...would be document doctoring (which was prevalent) or just fictional accounts (which was also prevalent).

[Luke]

Since Joseph taught that the 2nd anointing HAD TO BE from Christ directly...I think anything outside of that constraint...would be document doctoring (which was prevalent) or just fictional accounts (which was also prevalent).

Joseph literally never taught this

[The Red Pill]

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You are a lazy researcher Luke.

[HereWeGo]

Isn't there a difference between Second Anointing (an ordinance of the Church for certain individuals) and Second Comforter (an actual personal visit from the Savior)?

[The Red Pill]

Isn't there a difference between Second Anointing (an ordinance of the Church for certain individuals) and Second Comforter (an actual personal visit from the Savior)?

The same idea...

That your eternal salvation is made sure while in the flesh.

But starting with Brigham, it was taught (falsely) that this can be conferred on another by a man in church leadership. This is still being done, they call it the second endowment.

Joseph made it clear that it is only conferred by Christ personally.

[Luke]

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You are a lazy researcher Luke.

I am fully aware of this quote, and have posted it/discussed it numerous times on the forum.

Like many others, you misinterpreted it. Joseph says:

“When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints . . .”

There’s a pattern

Serve God at all hazards and be thoroughly proved - > Have your calling and election made sure - > Receive the Second Comforter

The Second Comforter is a blessing which follows having your calling and election made sure.

Joseph clearly taught in Nauvoo that the Second Anointing ordinance is what made a man’s calling and election sure. Obviously it’s been butchered now, but that doesn’t take away from what Joseph taught.

[Luke]

Isn't there a difference between Second Anointing (an ordinance of the Church for certain individuals) and Second Comforter (an actual personal visit from the Savior)?

The same idea...

That your eternal salvation is made sure while in the flesh.

But starting with Brigham, it was taught (falsely) that this can be conferred on another by a man in church leadership. This is still being done, they call it the second endowment.

Joseph made it clear that it is only conferred by Christ personally.

You have your head so far in the ground with BY hatred that you completely ignore historical facts. Joseph Smith was the one who introduced the Second Anointing ordinance.

[The Red Pill]

Screenshot_20230303_194749_Samsung Notes.jpg

Screenshot_20230303_194634_Samsung Notes.jpg

You are a lazy researcher Luke.

I am fully aware of this quote, and have posted it/discussed it numerous times on the forum.

Like many others, you misinterpreted it. Joseph says:

“When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints . . .”

There’s a pattern

Serve God at all hazards and be thoroughly proved - > Have your calling and election made sure - > Receive the Second Comforter

The Second Comforter is a blessing which follows having your calling and election made sure.

Joseph clearly taught in Nauvoo that the Second Anointing ordinance is what made a man’s calling and election sure. Obviously it’s been butchered now, but that doesn’t take away from what Joseph taught.

I don't agree with your interpretation. Joseph asks a question..."what is the second comforter"...then he answers it...clearly and concisely. It is a personal visit from Jesus Chist.

How can anyone interpret that any differently. The qualifications to get there cannot be confused with what it is. No mortal man can discern if those qualifications have been met. Only God and Christ.

Q15 couldn't even get anything right about covid. Are we supposed to believe they can hand out the "calling and election made sure" to their elite friends with authority to do so?? That's false doctrine.

Your belief in polygamy and worship of BY is why we will probably never agree on many issues.

[HereWeGo]

Joseph Smith was the one who introduced the Second Anointing ordinance.

This is what I had understood. I thought he had instituted this in the upper room. I had heard that he had given this ordinance to about 8 people. Problem is, we have learned that things we have heard and been taught have turned out to be false and traditions of the fathers.

A friend had asked if I had any evidence that Brigham had received this from Joseph.

[Luke]

Screenshot_20230303_194749_Samsung Notes.jpg

Screenshot_20230303_194634_Samsung Notes.jpg

You are a lazy researcher Luke.

I am fully aware of this quote, and have posted it/discussed it numerous times on the forum.

Like many others, you misinterpreted it. Joseph says:

“When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints . . .”

There’s a pattern

Serve God at all hazards and be thoroughly proved - > Have your calling and election made sure - > Receive the Second Comforter

The Second Comforter is a blessing which follows having your calling and election made sure.

Joseph clearly taught in Nauvoo that the Second Anointing ordinance is what made a man’s calling and election sure. Obviously it’s been butchered now, but that doesn’t take away from what Joseph taught.

I don't agree with your interpretation. Joseph asks a question..."what is the second comforter"...then he answers it...clearly and concisely. It is a personal visit from Jesus Chist.

How can anyone interpret that any differently. The qualifications to get there cannot be confused with what it is. No mortal man can discern if those qualifications have been met. Only God and Christ.

Q15 couldn't even get anything right about covid. Are we supposed to believe they can hand out the "calling and election made sure" to their elite friends with authority to do so?? That's false doctrine.

Your belief in polygamy and worship of BY is why we will probably never agree on many issues.

You completely misinterpreted my comment… I’ll try again:

The Second Comforter IS (a personal visitation of) Jesus Christ.

Having your calling and election and election made sure IS NOT the same thing as receiving the Second Comforter.

Having your calling and election made sure PRECEDES the Second Comforter.

As Joseph said:

• “When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints . . .”

Two separate events.

[Luke]

Joseph Smith was the one who introduced the Second Anointing ordinance.

This is what I had understood. I thought he had instituted this in the upper room. I had heard that he had given this ordinance to about 8 people. Problem is, we have learned that things we have heard and been taught have turned out to be false and traditions of the fathers.

A friend had asked if I had any evidence that Brigham had received this from Joseph.

It wasn’t just eight people. The eight you’re referring to are the eight to whom he first gave the washing, anointing and endowment to in May 1842.

Joseph went on to give the Second Anointing ordinance to dozens of people.

[HereWeGo]

Joseph Smith was the one who introduced the Second Anointing ordinance.

This is what I had understood. I thought he had instituted this in the upper room. I had heard that he had given this ordinance to about 8 people. Problem is, we have learned that things we have heard and been taught have turned out to be false and traditions of the fathers.

A friend had asked if I had any evidence that Brigham had received this from Joseph.

It wasn’t just eight people. The eight you’re referring to are the eight to whom he first gave the washing, anointing and endowment to in May 1842.

Joseph went on to give the Second Anointing ordinance to dozens of people.

Was Brigham one of them?

[Luke]

Joseph Smith was the one who introduced the Second Anointing ordinance.

This is what I had understood. I thought he had instituted this in the upper room. I had heard that he had given this ordinance to about 8 people. Problem is, we have learned that things we have heard and been taught have turned out to be false and traditions of the fathers.

A friend had asked if I had any evidence that Brigham had received this from Joseph.

It wasn’t just eight people. The eight you’re referring to are the eight to whom he first gave the washing, anointing and endowment to in May 1842.

Joseph went on to give the Second Anointing ordinance to dozens of people.

Was Brigham one of them?

Yes

Happened in November 1843

[larsenb]

Joseph Smith was the one who introduced the Second Anointing ordinance.

This is what I had understood. I thought he had instituted this in the upper room. I had heard that he had given this ordinance to about 8 people. Problem is, we have learned that things we have heard and been taught have turned out to be false and traditions of the fathers.

A friend had asked if I had any evidence that Brigham had received this from Joseph.

It wasn’t just eight people. The eight you’re referring to are the eight to whom he first gave the washing, anointing and endowment to in May 1842.

Joseph went on to give the Second Anointing ordinance to dozens of people.

I'm rather new to the Second Anointing ordinance, and don't remember ever running across references to it in my past readings and researches. CFRs on the whole topic, if you are able.

[Luke]

Joseph Smith was the one who introduced the Second Anointing ordinance.

This is what I had understood. I thought he had instituted this in the upper room. I had heard that he had given this ordinance to about 8 people. Problem is, we have learned that things we have heard and been taught have turned out to be false and traditions of the fathers.

A friend had asked if I had any evidence that Brigham had received this from Joseph.

It wasn’t just eight people. The eight you’re referring to are the eight to whom he first gave the washing, anointing and endowment to in May 1842.

Joseph went on to give the Second Anointing ordinance to dozens of people.

I'm rather new to the Second Anointing ordinance, and don't remember ever running across references to it in my past readings and researches. CFRs on the whole topic, if you are able.

I’ve been busy but will try and get round to it tomorrow

[HereWeGo]

I found this on:

http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/secondendowment.htm

What about those that apostacized after receiving their Second Anointing?
The Second Anointing seems to guarantee Celestial Salvation for anyone that received it. That seems to imply that if someone transgresses after receiving their Second Anointing that those sins won't count against them. In practice, the majority of people receiving their S.A. are probably solid, upstanding church members and probably won't drastically alter their lifestyles e.g. if they were righteous before their S.A. they will be righteous after their S.A. The only reason a person having received the second anointing can fail to receive their exaltation in the next life is to shed innocent blood according to D&C 132.


This would explain why the church leadership would feel no need to admit wrong-doing. They think it is guaranteed that they will slide into the CK as long as they personally don't kill anyone.

[The Red Pill]

Screenshot_20230303_194749_Samsung Notes.jpg

Screenshot_20230303_194634_Samsung Notes.jpg

You are a lazy researcher Luke.

I am fully aware of this quote, and have posted it/discussed it numerous times on the forum.

Like many others, you misinterpreted it. Joseph says:

“When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints . . .”

There’s a pattern

Serve God at all hazards and be thoroughly proved - > Have your calling and election made sure - > Receive the Second Comforter

The Second Comforter is a blessing which follows having your calling and election made sure.

Joseph clearly taught in Nauvoo that the Second Anointing ordinance is what made a man’s calling and election sure. Obviously it’s been butchered now, but that doesn’t take away from what Joseph taught.

I don't agree with your interpretation. Joseph asks a question..."what is the second comforter"...then he answers it...clearly and concisely. It is a personal visit from Jesus Chist.

How can anyone interpret that any differently. The qualifications to get there cannot be confused with what it is. No mortal man can discern if those qualifications have been met. Only God and Christ.

Q15 couldn't even get anything right about covid. Are we supposed to believe they can hand out the "calling and election made sure" to their elite friends with authority to do so?? That's false doctrine.

Your belief in polygamy and worship of BY is why we will probably never agree on many issues.

You completely misinterpreted my comment… I’ll try again:

The Second Comforter IS (a personal visitation of) Jesus Christ.

Having your calling and election and election made sure IS NOT the same thing as receiving the Second Comforter.

Having your calling and election made sure PRECEDES the Second Comforter.

As Joseph said:

• “When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints . . .”

Two separate events.

It's not that I don't understand your position...I do understand it...I just don't agree with it.

[The Red Pill]

I found this on:

http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/secondendowment.htm

What about those that apostacized after receiving their Second Anointing?
The Second Anointing seems to guarantee Celestial Salvation for anyone that received it. That seems to imply that if someone transgresses after receiving their Second Anointing that those sins won't count against them. In practice, the majority of people receiving their S.A. are probably solid, upstanding church members and probably won't drastically alter their lifestyles e.g. if they were righteous before their S.A. they will be righteous after their S.A. The only reason a person having received the second anointing can fail to receive their exaltation in the next life is to shed innocent blood according to D&C 132.


This would explain why the church leadership would feel no need to admit wrong-doing. They think it is guaranteed that they will slide into the CK as long as they personally don't kill anyone.

So....with the urged clot-shot...they certainly are responsible for people dying...that would not have died...if they kept their mouth shut on the issue.

That's not even debatable. No, they didn't inject the needle...but they might as well have.

[Luke]

I am fully aware of this quote, and have posted it/discussed it numerous times on the forum.

Like many others, you misinterpreted it. Joseph says:

“When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints . . .”

There’s a pattern

Serve God at all hazards and be thoroughly proved - > Have your calling and election made sure - > Receive the Second Comforter

The Second Comforter is a blessing which follows having your calling and election made sure.

Joseph clearly taught in Nauvoo that the Second Anointing ordinance is what made a man’s calling and election sure. Obviously it’s been butchered now, but that doesn’t take away from what Joseph taught.

I don't agree with your interpretation. Joseph asks a question..."what is the second comforter"...then he answers it...clearly and concisely. It is a personal visit from Jesus Chist.

How can anyone interpret that any differently. The qualifications to get there cannot be confused with what it is. No mortal man can discern if those qualifications have been met. Only God and Christ.

Q15 couldn't even get anything right about covid. Are we supposed to believe they can hand out the "calling and election made sure" to their elite friends with authority to do so?? That's false doctrine.

Your belief in polygamy and worship of BY is why we will probably never agree on many issues.

You completely misinterpreted my comment… I’ll try again:

The Second Comforter IS (a personal visitation of) Jesus Christ.

Having your calling and election and election made sure IS NOT the same thing as receiving the Second Comforter.

Having your calling and election made sure PRECEDES the Second Comforter.

As Joseph said:

• “When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints . . .”

Two separate events.

It's not that I don't understand your position...I do understand it...I just don't agree with it.

You misinterpreted what I said. You said that I said that the Second Comforter and a visitation from Jesus Christ wasn’t the same thing. I never did. What I said was that having your calling and election made sure isn’t the same thing as a personal visitation from Jesus Christ.

That quote from Joseph makes it clear that they’re two different things.

[Dusty Wanderer]

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Screenshot_20230303_194634_Samsung Notes.jpg

You are a lazy researcher Luke.

I am fully aware of this quote, and have posted it/discussed it numerous times on the forum.

Like many others, you misinterpreted it. Joseph says:

“When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints . . .”

There’s a pattern

Serve God at all hazards and be thoroughly proved - > Have your calling and election made sure - > Receive the Second Comforter

The Second Comforter is a blessing which follows having your calling and election made sure.

Joseph clearly taught in Nauvoo that the Second Anointing ordinance is what made a man’s calling and election sure. Obviously it’s been butchered now, but that doesn’t take away from what Joseph taught.

I don't agree with your interpretation. Joseph asks a question..."what is the second comforter"...then he answers it...clearly and concisely. It is a personal visit from Jesus Chist.

How can anyone interpret that any differently. The qualifications to get there cannot be confused with what it is. No mortal man can discern if those qualifications have been met. Only God and Christ.

Q15 couldn't even get anything right about covid. Are we supposed to believe they can hand out the "calling and election made sure" to their elite friends with authority to do so?? That's false doctrine.

Your belief in polygamy and worship of BY is why we will probably never agree on many issues.

You completely misinterpreted my comment… I’ll try again:

The Second Comforter IS (a personal visitation of) Jesus Christ.

Having your calling and election and election made sure IS NOT the same thing as receiving the Second Comforter.

Having your calling and election made sure PRECEDES the Second Comforter.

As Joseph said:

• “When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints . . .”

Two separate events.

There does seem to be a decent amount of support for the calling and election made sure being in the realm of the First Comforter, the voice of the Lord.

It is one thing to receive knowledge by the voice of God (this is my Beloved Son), another to know that you yourself will be saved, to have a positive promise of your own salvation is making your calling and election sure - the voice of Jesus saying my beloved thou shalt have eternal life. Brethren never cease struggling until you get this evidence. Joseph Smith, May 21st 1843, Nauvoo temple stand

"[The saints] make their calling and election sure [when they] when they obtain a promise from the Lord of Glory (hear His voice, a promise from His mouth) that their salvation was sealed, that their election was sure" Oliver Cowdery, E&MS 2 June 1834, 167

Make your calling sure, go on from grace to grace until you obtain a promise from God for yourselves that you shall have eternal life, this is eternal life to know God and his son Jesus Christ, it is to be sealed up unto eternal life and obtain a promise for our posterity. Joseph Smith, 10 March 1844, Nauvoo

Is the calling and election made sure and the Holy Spirit of Promise the same thing? Seeing a lot of this terminology associated with the same concept in the above quotes.

[Luke]

I am fully aware of this quote, and have posted it/discussed it numerous times on the forum.

Like many others, you misinterpreted it. Joseph says:

“When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints . . .”

There’s a pattern

Serve God at all hazards and be thoroughly proved - > Have your calling and election made sure - > Receive the Second Comforter

The Second Comforter is a blessing which follows having your calling and election made sure.

Joseph clearly taught in Nauvoo that the Second Anointing ordinance is what made a man’s calling and election sure. Obviously it’s been butchered now, but that doesn’t take away from what Joseph taught.

I don't agree with your interpretation. Joseph asks a question..."what is the second comforter"...then he answers it...clearly and concisely. It is a personal visit from Jesus Chist.

How can anyone interpret that any differently. The qualifications to get there cannot be confused with what it is. No mortal man can discern if those qualifications have been met. Only God and Christ.

Q15 couldn't even get anything right about covid. Are we supposed to believe they can hand out the "calling and election made sure" to their elite friends with authority to do so?? That's false doctrine.

Your belief in polygamy and worship of BY is why we will probably never agree on many issues.

You completely misinterpreted my comment… I’ll try again:

The Second Comforter IS (a personal visitation of) Jesus Christ.

Having your calling and election and election made sure IS NOT the same thing as receiving the Second Comforter.

Having your calling and election made sure PRECEDES the Second Comforter.

As Joseph said:

• “When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints . . .”

Two separate events.

There does seem to be a decent amount of support for the calling and election made sure being in the realm of the First Comforter, the voice of the Lord.

It is one thing to receive knowledge by the voice of God (this is my Beloved Son), another to know that you yourself will be saved, to have a positive promise of your own salvation is making your calling and election sure - the voice of Jesus saying my beloved thou shalt have eternal life. Brethren never cease struggling until you get this evidence. Joseph Smith, May 21st 1843, Nauvoo temple stand

"[The saints] make their calling and election sure [when they] when they obtain a promise from the Lord of Glory (hear His voice, a promise from His mouth) that their salvation was sealed, that their election was sure" Oliver Cowdery, E&MS 2 June 1834, 167

Make your calling sure, go on from grace to grace until you obtain a promise from God for yourselves that you shall have eternal life, this is eternal life to know God and his son Jesus Christ, it is to be sealed up unto eternal life and obtain a promise for our posterity. Joseph Smith, 10 March 1844, Nauvoo

Is the calling and election made sure and the Holy Spirit of Promise the same thing? Seeing a lot of this terminology associated with the same concept in the above quotes.

This is true doctrine. I think that the Second Anointing ordinance does have to be ratified by the Holy Spirit of Promise actually making it known to you that you are sealed, the same way that an actual baptism of fire and Holy Ghost needs to attend the laying on of hands to make it effective.