LDS Freedom Forum

This is one of the most common questions I see from members towards anyone who attempts to question or condemn the actions and policies of LDS leadership, so I figured I'd address this and give my own formal answer.

1. Most of us are/were members and as such have a connection to the org that doesn't exist with other religions. We tend to focus on things that we can understand and are meaningful to us. I was a member for nearly 20 years, and it's ridiculous to suppose that I just woke up one day and decided to start criticizing the doctrines, policies, and leaders for no good reason. I care now because I cared then.
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2. I care deeply about my friends and family who are members of the LDS org and want to have meaningful conversations with them; both about religious doctrine and what's happening in the world. In order to do so we have to have some mutual understanding of each others' beliefs and should be able to question and discuss said beliefs.
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3. Because I love my friends and family I have a strong desire to share with them the things that bring me joy and make me a better person. If I find something to be true, false, beneficial, or dangerous... I'm going to let them know.
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4. How is this any different from LDS missionaries? You are totally OK with a bunch of young adults traveling the world and discussing with millions of people in an effort to convince them that your religious beliefs are correct, but not cool with a few people sharing their opinions on public social platforms? Would you rather I put on a suit, create pamphlets, practice a script for hours, and then come knock on your door? I'm simply sharing the truth as far as I know it, and I'm allowing you the same privilege.

If you're asking someone this question, obviously you also care about the church. Why? What makes your caring so different from my own? Why is it that members can spend countless hours doing family history work, reading scriptures, serving in their calling, going to the temple, serving missions, learning about church history, going to classes, and studying doctrine... but as soon as they come to a conclusion that differs from the mainstream narrative their "righteous devotion" becomes "obsessive criticism"? Where are you going to draw the line between the two? Because right now it's all based upon who agrees or disagrees with your supposedly infallible leaders.

Stop with your ridiculous double standards and blatant gaslighting.

To clarify, I'm not "anti-Mormon" and want nothing to do with those who are. Unlike most critics of the org I am not interested in the faults of a few men and more interested in Christ's teachings, His church, His doctrines, and the truth. There are times when corruption needs to be exposed, but it has everything to do with your intention.

If you are absolutely sure of your beliefs, then why does it matter what others think? Reflect on this statement from J. Reuben Clark: “If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.” If you oppose anyone shedding doubt on your beliefs then you admit to not understanding their truthfulness.

You can leave the Church, but you can't leave it alone!

Get back on the boat. (¬‿¬)

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 10:18 am To clarify, I'm not "anti-Mormon" and want nothing to do with those who are.

Only an anti-Mormon would say that. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 10:19 am... J. Reuben Clark: “If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.” ...

Yep, some people care about truth, many don't, at least not enough to question anything they currently believe. Most people love the comfort of their current beliefs, whether right or wrong. And unfortunately, many people have become NPCs (mindless automatons), going about their lives doing the same thing over and over again with no real freedom of thought.

creator wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 11:12 am

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 10:19 am... J. Reuben Clark: “If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.” ...

Yep, some people care about truth, many don't, at least not enough to question anything they currently believe. Most people love the comfort of their current beliefs, whether right or wrong. And unfortunately, many people have become NPCs (mindless automatons), going about their lives doing the same thing over and over again with no real freedom of thought.

Even when you try to show them evidence - people put up a block and won't even LOOK INTO IT. Yep that mind-comfort tastes soooooo good not even going to look away.

creator wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 11:08 am

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 10:18 am To clarify, I'm not "anti-Mormon" and want nothing to do with those who are.

Only an anti-Mormon would say that. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I disagree strongly. I have spent years dealing with the questions from anti-Mormons and answering their concerns, but if I have questions that doesn't make me an anti-Mormon.

cachemagic wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 11:18 am

creator wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 11:08 am

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 10:18 am To clarify, I'm not "anti-Mormon" and want nothing to do with those who are.

Only an anti-Mormon would say that. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I disagree strongly. I have spent years dealing with the questions from anti-Mormons and answering their concerns, but if I have questions that doesn't make me an anti-Mormon.

He was being facetious.

creator wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 11:01 am You can leave the Church, but you can't leave it alone!

Get back on the boat. (¬‿¬)

"You're just finding fault..."

Birds of a feather...

You’re a conspiracy theorist.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 12:38 pm You’re a conspiracy theorist.

You just played the trump card, you win the argument for sure. At least that's what CIA psychological operations specialist have concluded. If you'll excuse me, I have some droids I'm looking for.

Being demanded or influenced to fit the molly mormon cookie cutter is manipulative and dishonorable.

FoxMammaWisdom wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 11:15 am Even when you try to show them evidence - people put up a block and won't even LOOK INTO IT.

I think it's because it's terrifying to them on some level. Like Gad Slayer said, they're not firm in their foundation (belief) - or they're afraid you're sent by the devil to lead them carefully down to hell where their soul will perish.

I think the best thing that ever happened to me was being beaten down so hard by life that I had no pride left, and nothing left to fear as far as differing beliefs go (no more sacred cows). I'd prefer to have been open without any of that, but I'm glad the pride and the "I know, and it's my way or the devil's way" is gone.

cachemagic wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 11:18 am

creator wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 11:08 am

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 10:18 am To clarify, I'm not "anti-Mormon" and want nothing to do with those who are.

Only an anti-Mormon would say that. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I disagree strongly. I have spent years dealing with the questions from anti-Mormons and answering their concerns, but if I have questions that doesn't make me an anti-Mormon.

It was a joke - but there are definitely people who seriously believe that questioners are anti-Mormon.

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 1:05 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑February 28th, 2023, 12:38 pm You’re a conspiracy theorist.

You just played the trump card, you win the argument for sure. At least that's what CIA psychological operations specialist have concluded. If you'll excuse me, I have some droids I'm looking for.

“You’re an apostate”

Fellow slaves don’t like it when the uppity slave starts talking sense.


No one knows who will take the beating, or if the crackers will get taken from everyone instead of just the agitator.

Basic plantation mentality.

Funny that there are people on the forum who use this logic and have asked identical questions, but no one wants to address this.

My favorite one is. "Don't you want an eternal family, you love your family, right?" Nothing like good old fashioned passive aggressive hoopla.

DivineSpark wrote: ↑March 15th, 2023, 10:51 pm My favorite one is. "Don't you want an eternal family, you love your family, right?" Nothing like good old fashioned passive aggressive hoopla.

It always becomes your fault, and often they aren’t willing or capable of comprehending the truth.

DivineSpark wrote: ↑March 15th, 2023, 10:51 pm My favorite one is. "Don't you want an eternal family, you love your family, right?" Nothing like good old fashioned passive aggressive hoopla.

I was chatting w/ a friend who is an emeritus member of the 70. One thing he threw out in the conversation was this, “So you think your parents were deceived?” This was in response to a two hour conversation about how the LDS church is in apostasy. What he said really bothered me. I told him straight up, “Yes! There were lied to.”

Some of y’all need to read this OP again.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 16th, 2023, 6:00 am

DivineSpark wrote: ↑March 15th, 2023, 10:51 pm My favorite one is. "Don't you want an eternal family, you love your family, right?" Nothing like good old fashioned passive aggressive hoopla.

I was chatting w/ a friend who is an emeritus member of the 70. One thing he threw out in the conversation was this, “So you think your parents were deceived?” This was in response to a two hour conversation about how the LDS church is in apostasy. What he said really bothered me. I told him straight up, “Yes! There were lied to.”

The deception continues to crumble.

But they refuse to see it.

I suppose I do it to soften the landing for others, and the Church is just a sandbox to play in. I am open to the Spirit directing my paths in a different direction.

DivineSpark wrote: ↑March 15th, 2023, 10:51 pm My favorite one is. "Don't you want an eternal family, you love your family, right?" Nothing like good old fashioned passive aggressive hoopla.

yah.

That's what they played on me when I stopped attending about 30 yrs ago. Elders quorum pres calls me and tells me that if I don't want to attend and have an eternal family, then I should send my wife and kids alone to church so they will be blessed. He said, 'your kids are exceptional , you should send them to church" . My response was "It wasn't the church that guided them to be who they are and they will stay that way". He didn't like that and I didn't hear from them again. That experience gave me clear vision of what the church can do to families if allowed.

My kids were young and hearing them sing "follow the prophet, he knows the way" gave me a sick feeling. Watching parents tell their kids the words to repeat in testimony meeting also made me feel ill. It all became very clear. One of the major reasons that I left was that I didn't want my kids, in their adult years, to have to go through the difficulty of extricating the hypnotic brain washing. For me, the negative side of the church outweighed the positive.

I thank God that we left. The biggest general benefit of leaving the church is that they all currently know that God loves them unconditionally and they rely on that. They understand the messages of Christ and his Gospel. They didn't learn these things from the church. The church is a great and spacious building that is hollow.