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Re: "Why do you care so much about the church?"

Posted: October 10th, 2023, 9:40 am
by FrankOne
Gadianton Slayer wrote: October 9th, 2023, 11:35 pm Some of y’all need to read this OP again.
ok.

the question :

"Why do you care so much about the church?"

answer: I don't.

As to your reasons for caring, I don't identify with them. I have a very large and extended family (siblings/aunts/uncles/inlaws) which are very enmeshed TBM's and they like it. They want it. It is their choice and they will go to the other side as TBM's. It's ok! They have time. We all have time. I see no need to push them or convince them. God has it all figured out and I do not. To be perfectly honest, I do throw out ideas now and then, but who listens? hahahah. Only those searching can find.

edit to add:

I DO see the need for folks like the OP to make great efforts in helping others to see the fallacies of the current church organization. I do make comments about the church, but here, on this forum, I don't see it as educating them because the far majority here already have one foot out.

Re: "Why do you care so much about the church?"

Posted: October 10th, 2023, 9:51 am
by Nevervaxxed
Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 28th, 2023, 10:15 am This is one of the most common questions I see from members towards anyone who attempts to question or condemn the actions and policies of LDS leadership, so I figured I'd address this and give my own formal answer.
  1. Most of us are/were members and as such have a connection to the org that doesn't exist with other religions. We tend to focus on things that we can understand and are meaningful to us. I was a member for nearly 20 years, and it's ridiculous to suppose that I just woke up one day and decided to start criticizing the doctrines, policies, and leaders for no good reason. I care now because I cared then.
    -
  2. I care deeply about my friends and family who are members of the LDS org and want to have meaningful conversations with them; both about religious doctrine and what's happening in the world. In order to do so we have to have some mutual understanding of each others' beliefs and should be able to question and discuss said beliefs.
    -
  3. Because I love my friends and family I have a strong desire to share with them the things that bring me joy and make me a better person. If I find something to be true, false, beneficial, or dangerous... I'm going to let them know.
    -
  4. How is this any different from LDS missionaries? You are totally OK with a bunch of young adults traveling the world and discussing with millions of people in an effort to convince them that your religious beliefs are correct, but not cool with a few people sharing their opinions on public social platforms? Would you rather I put on a suit, create pamphlets, practice a script for hours, and then come knock on your door? I'm simply sharing the truth as far as I know it, and I'm allowing you the same privilege.
If you're asking someone this question, obviously you also care about the church. Why? What makes your caring so different from my own? Why is it that members can spend countless hours doing family history work, reading scriptures, serving in their calling, going to the temple, serving missions, learning about church history, going to classes, and studying doctrine... but as soon as they come to a conclusion that differs from the mainstream narrative their "righteous devotion" becomes "obsessive criticism"? Where are you going to draw the line between the two? Because right now it's all based upon who agrees or disagrees with your supposedly infallible leaders.

Stop with your ridiculous double standards and blatant gaslighting.
Exactly, well said

Re: "Why do you care so much about the church?"

Posted: October 10th, 2023, 9:57 am
by Fred
There was a time when Bishops and Stake Presidents were chosen for their faithfulness, testimony, or because they actually attempted to live Christlike. Those days are gone. Now, nearly every ward has possibly hundreds of people far more spiritual than the Bishop. Stooges are preferred over critical thinkers. If you are willing to kill your ward members by expressing a satanic view of the jab, you might qualify to be Bishop. Any Bishop that refuses to follow Fauci over Christ will be fired.

Show me even ONE Bishop that stood at the pulpit and declared truth over satanism regarding the jab. There are no disciples of Christ in church leadership.

Re: "Why do you care so much about the church?"

Posted: October 10th, 2023, 9:58 am
by Nevervaxxed
creator wrote: February 28th, 2023, 11:01 am You can leave the Church, but you can't leave it alone!

Get back on the boat. (¬‿¬)
IN spite of RMN stating otherwise to only listen to him and the brethren... but especially him! And I agree about having no anamous against the members of the church. Most of my friends are still active members, trying to "save" me. Many of them are people I love and admire. But most have not really investigated church history, and do not want to question the brethren...

Re: "Why do you care so much about the church?"

Posted: October 10th, 2023, 10:20 am
by Fred
Nevervaxxed wrote: October 10th, 2023, 9:58 am
creator wrote: February 28th, 2023, 11:01 am You can leave the Church, but you can't leave it alone!

Get back on the boat. (¬‿¬)
IN spite of RMN stating otherwise to only listen to him and the brethren... but especially him! And I agree about having no anamous against the members of the church. Most of my friends are still active members, trying to "save" me. Many of them are people I love and admire. But most have not really investigated church history, and do not want to question the brethren...
Just ask people a simple question: Do you think Christ wants only people that are too stupid to be considered human in his church?
Because that is the mental status of all people that believe the jab is a godsend. These people actually have to have an incredible hatred for the Almighty God that created them, in order to believe that God instructed Fauci to pay for the gain of function required to administer the hoax, in which millions were killed by ventilators and Remdesivir.

Re: "Why do you care so much about the church?"

Posted: October 10th, 2023, 10:42 am
by Nevervaxxed
Fred wrote: October 10th, 2023, 10:20 am
Nevervaxxed wrote: October 10th, 2023, 9:58 am
creator wrote: February 28th, 2023, 11:01 am You can leave the Church, but you can't leave it alone!

Get back on the boat. (¬‿¬)
IN spite of RMN stating otherwise to only listen to him and the brethren... but especially him! And I agree about having no anamous against the members of the church. Most of my friends are still active members, trying to "save" me. Many of them are people I love and admire. But most have not really investigated church history, and do not want to question the brethren...
Just ask people a simple question: Do you think Christ wants only people that are too stupid to be considered human in his church?
Because that is the mental status of all people that believe the jab is a godsend. These people actually have to have an incredible hatred for the Almighty God that created them, in order to believe that God instructed Fauci to pay for the gain of function required to administer the hoax, in which millions were killed by ventilators and Remdesivir.
17 mill deaths is the latest estimate for killer jab deaths... there was a story about it on gateway pundit

Re: "Why do you care so much about the church?"

Posted: October 10th, 2023, 11:20 am
by Being There
Gadianton Slayer wrote: March 15th, 2023, 5:24 pm Funny that there are people on the forum who use this logic and have asked identical questions, but no one wants to address this.
I'll address it. **********"Why do you care so much about the church?"
(down below)

from your other comment
There are times when corruption needs to be exposed
YES - there is -

7. .... in the days that the prophecies of Isaiah shall be fulfilled men shall know of a surety,
at the times when they shall come to pass

Second Nephi 25

AND THAT TIME IS NOW ***.


**********
"Why do you care so much about the church?"

Well - like Isaiah says - (and how the Lord feels)
when your beautiful wife - that you love so much - has become a harlot -
well - you can see WHY - you care sooooo much.

***
Isaiah 1
21 How the faithful city has become a harlot!
She was filled with justice; righteousness made its abode in her, but now murderers.

Foreseeing his people’s imminent calamity because they choose not to repent,
the prophet grieves for them, the word “How” characterizing a lament (Lamentations 1:1; 2:1; 4:1).
In other words, the prophet is asking, “How could this tragedy have happened?
How is it that this people didn’t repent in time?
How could those who were once righteous become so wicked?”
The term “harlot” attests to their broken covenant relationship with Jehovah their husband (Isaiah 57:3-13).
Besides identifying a specific place, the term “city” represents Jehovah’s covenant people in general
(Isaiah 45:13; 60:14).

She was filled with justice. Righteousness made her abode in her, but now murderers.

“Justice” (mispat) and “righteousness” (sedeq)—the basis of all covenant blessings and the underpinnings of a law-abiding society—have given way to injustice and unrighteousness.
The term “murderers” reiterates the level of wickedness to which Jehovah’s people have sunk.

Isaiah 50
1 Thus says Jehovah:Where is your mother’s bill of divorce with which I cast her out?
Or to which of my creditors did I sell you?
Surely, by sinning you have sold yourselves; because of your crimes is your mother cast off.

Two women appear in the Book of Isaiah:
(1) the current unfaithful wife, whom Jehovah divorces;
and (2) a formerly divorced wife, now faithful, whom he remarries (Isaiah 54:1, 4-14).
While the faithful woman—the Woman Zion, an elect category of Jehovah’s people—sees covenant curses turn into blessings, the unfaithful woman sees covenant blessings turn into curses.
The fact that Jehovah’s people who are “cast off” suffer the identical curses as the Harlot Babylon (Isaiah 1:21-31; 5:24-25; 9:13-21; 42:18-25; 47:8-15; 57:7-13) implies that they become a part of Isaiah’s Babylon category.

2 Why was no one there when I came; why did no one answer when I called?
Was my hand too short to redeem you; have I no power to deliver?
By a mere rebuke I dry up the Sea; rivers I turn into desert—their fish become parched
a for lack of water and perish because of thirst.

The current wife’s unfaithfulness is complete
when she rejects Jehovah at the time he “comes” and “calls” (Isaiah 65:12; 66:4).
That occurs when Jehovah appoints his servant to establish justice in the earth and restore his people
(Isaiah 42:1, 4; 49:5-8).
As Jehovah’s hand, the servant reclaims their remnant (Isaiah 11:11), smelts away their dross
(Isaiah 1:25), empowers them (Isaiah 41:10), leads their new exodus (Isaiah 11:15-16),
leads their new conquest (Isaiah 11:14), assigns them inheritances (Isaiah 34:17),
and protects them (Isaiah 51:16). Many, however, pay no regard to him (Isaiah 59:1-2).


Isaiah 54
1 Sing, O barren woman who did not give birth;break into jubilant song, you who were not in labor.
The children of the deserted wife shall outnumber those of the espoused, says Jehovah.

Isaiah’s depicting Jehovah’s people as two cities, one righteous, the other wicked, has a parallel in two women or wives, one faithful, the other unfaithful. The imagery of a woman who typifies Jehovah’s covenant relationship with his people thus divides into that of two women: (1) “a wife married in youth only to be rejected” for her unfaithfulness, but whom Jehovah now remarries (vv 5-6); and (2) the wife currently married, whom Jehovah now rejects for her unfaithfulness: “Surely by sinning you sold yourselves; because of your crimes is your mother cast off” (Isaiah 50:1; cf. 1:21; 57:3-13).

A reversal of circumstances takes place when the natural lineages of Jehovah’s people who anciently rejected their covenant Lord renew their relationship with him—while, at the same time, the assimilated lineages of his people who displaced them now reject him through their idolatries (Isaiah 42:17; 44:15; 45:20; 46:1-2). In the millennial age of peace, the “children” or “sons” (banim) who are born to the remarried spouse—a chief covenant blessing—far exceed those of the spouse who is cast off. She who was “barren” during the intervening centuries has cause to rejoice (Isaiah 49:20-22).