Flee From Mormylon - By Staying in The Church and Building Zion!

[endlessQuestions]

For those who haven't left "the Church" yet.

Please consider the idea that you can be a powerful influence for good in your wards and stakes simply by fleeing from Mormylon, but STAYING IN YOUR WARDS and politely but insistently demanding accountability.

Zion has to be built somewhere. Why not try building it where you've been planted?

I have a testimony that this is the church of Jesus Christ.

Like the Nephites of old, we have forsaken our Master.

But like those men and women, we can turn back to Him, renew our covenant, and allow Him to lead us once again.

I KNOW He will honor our faithful efforts.

And if they mock us?

And smite us on the cheek?

And cast us out of our synagogues?

And call us crazy?

What is that to us?

Can they harm us more than they harmed our Master, and his other faithful servants throughout the ages?

Of course not.

We can do this!

He will help!

[Reluctant Watchman]

Zion will not be built in the LDS construct. IMO.

[endlessQuestions]

Zion will not be built in the LDS construct. IMO.

Sure. I understand.

Hence the "For those who haven't left "the Church" yet disclaimer at the top of my post.

But I get it.

I really do.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I don’t have a testimony of a “church” that teaches philosophies that directly contradict Christ’s teachings. Sure, there was truth there when Joseph established a group of believers, but the authenticity and validity of such an organization becomes invalid once they change the very word of the Lord.

[Fight for the right]

For those who haven't left "the Church" yet.

Please consider the idea that you can be a powerful influence for good in your wards and stakes simply by fleeing from Mormylon, but STAYING IN YOUR WARDS and politely but insistently demanding accountability.

Zion has to be built somewhere. Why not try building it where you've been planted?

I have a testimony that this is the church of Jesus Christ.

Like the Nephites of old, we have forsaken our Master.

But like those men and women, we can turn back to Him, renew our covenant, and allow Him to lead us once again.

I KNOW He will honor our faithful efforts.

And if they mock us?

And smite us on the cheek?

And cast us out of our synagogues?

And call us crazy?

What is that to us?

Can they harm us more than they harmed our Master, and his other faithful servants throughout the ages?

Of course not.

We can do this!

He will help!

Right there with you. I will never leave. I also know that that it is still Jesus Christ's Church.

[Reluctant Watchman]

If I’ve learned one thing from studying thousands of years of religious history and even our modern history, is that things almost never turn out the way we think they will. God’s ways are higher than our ways.

[endlessQuestions]

If I’ve learned one thing from studying thousands of years of religious history and even our modern history, is that things almost never turn out the way we think they will. God’s ways are higher than our ways.

Amen to that!

[Original_Intent]

If I’ve learned one thing from studying thousands of years of religious history and even our modern history, is that things almost never turn out the way we think they will. God’s ways are higher than our ways.

That is very true. Which is why we make such poor prophets, we know nothing, and God has to preach His own sermons in ways that we cannot say "Our idol foretold this.."

…5Therefore I declared it to you long ago; I announced it before it came to pass, so that you could not claim, ‘My idol has done this; my carved image and molten god has ordained it.’ 6You have heard these things; look at them all. Will you not acknowledge them? From now on I will tell you of new things, hidden things unknown to you. 7They are created now, and not long ago; you have not heard of them before today. So you cannot claim, ‘I already knew them!’ - Isaiah 48: 5-7

[Reluctant Watchman]

How do you guys plan on dealing with the glass ceiling of leadership?

[Reluctant Watchman]

If I’ve learned one thing from studying thousands of years of religious history and even our modern history, is that things almost never turn out the way we think they will. God’s ways are higher than our ways.

That is very true. Which is why we make such poor prophets, we know nothing, and God has to preach His own sermons in ways that we cannot say "Our idol foretold this.."

…5Therefore I declared it to you long ago; I announced it before it came to pass, so that you could not claim, ‘My idol has done this; my carved image and molten god has ordained it.’ 6You have heard these things; look at them all. Will you not acknowledge them? From now on I will tell you of new things, hidden things unknown to you. 7They are created now, and not long ago; you have not heard of them before today. So you cannot claim, ‘I already knew them!’ - Isaiah 48: 5-7

I think there are some people who make wonderful prophets. I truly, deep down, believe that God inspires men and women with truth. I have learned so much from them. Were they perfect? Not at all. But many of them are pretty amazing. And almost none of them take upon themselves the title of prophet.

[tmac]

How do you guys plan on dealing with the glass ceiling of leadership?

As a means/form of non-aggressive, passive resistance, there should be a united, grassroots request to be released from callings, without any fuss, drama, or explanation. If that effort would gain traction and grow legs, and bishoprics and stake presidencies would start requesting to be released en masse, it would send a strong message. If it caught on like “Let’s Go Brandon,” it would finally start to get the “Brethren’s” attention, and they would have to re-evaluate. But how many will have the backbone to do that?

And/or if enough people simply quit paying tithes and offerings to the Church, and held those funds for further direction, that too would start to get some attention.

[Original_Intent]

How do you guys plan on dealing with the glass ceiling of leadership?

As a means/form of non-aggressive, passive resistance, there should be a united request to be released from callings, without any fuss, drama, or explanation. If that effort would gain traction and grow legs, and bishoprics and stake presidencies would start requesting to be released en masse, it would send a strong message, and would finally get the “Brethren’s” attention, and they would have to re-evaluate. But how many will have the backbone to do that?

And/or if enough people simply quit paying tithes and offerings to the Church, and held those funds for further direction, that too would start to get some attention.

I just read an article talking about Mao and how hundreds of millions supported him even though millions were dying of starvation from his policies. The sentence from the article that synchronizes with your post:

To paraphrase Ghandi, it is not possible for a few to impose their will upon millions without their tacit acceptance.

Boy, do we need to take that message to heart in regards to the church, the government, and the globalists!

[endlessQuestions]

How do you guys plan on dealing with the glass ceiling of leadership?

As a means/form of non-aggressive, passive resistance, there should be a united request to be released from callings, without any fuss, drama, or explanation. If that effort would gain traction and grow legs, and bishoprics and stake presidencies would start requesting to be released en masse, it would send a strong message, and would finally get the “Brethren’s” attention, and they would have to re-evaluate. But how many will have the backbone to do that?

And/or if enough people simply quit paying tithes and offerings to the Church, and held those funds for further direction, that too would start to get some attention.

I just read an article talking about Mao and how hundreds of millions supported him even though millions were dying of starvation from his policies. The sentence from the article that synchronizes with your post:

To paraphrase Ghandi, it is not possible for a few to impose their will upon millions without their tacit acceptance.

Boy, do we need to take that message to heart in regards to the church, the government, and the globalists!

See, now we're getting somewhere.

The principle applies everywhere.

Our consent is what allows unjust men to rule over us.

They are our servants.

We are their masters.

We have been poor masters.

So they have become poor servants.

If we become good masters,

they will either become good servants

Or be swept away (either by men or God Himself)

But the answer is us.

WE must repent

and then ask THEM to repent

and refuse to consent to their illegitimate rule

no matter the cost

(the first few through the door usually end up taking a bullet, but it all works out in the end, from an eternal perspective)

in my opinion, of course.

[Reluctant Watchman]

How do you guys plan on dealing with the glass ceiling of leadership?

As a means/form of non-aggressive, passive resistance, there should be a united, grassroots request to be released from callings, without any fuss, drama, or explanation. If that effort would gain traction and grow legs, and bishoprics and stake presidencies would start requesting to be released en masse, it would send a strong message. If it caught on like “Let’s Go Brandon,” it would finally start to get the “Brethren’s” attention, and they would have to re-evaluate. But how many will have the backbone to do that?

And/or if enough people simply quit paying tithes and offerings to the Church, and held those funds for further direction, that too would start to get some attention.

I guess I was ahead of the curve.

[tmac]

How do you guys plan on dealing with the glass ceiling of leadership?

As a means/form of non-aggressive, passive resistance, there should be a united request to be released from callings, without any fuss, drama, or explanation. If that effort would gain traction and grow legs, and bishoprics and stake presidencies would start requesting to be released en masse, it would send a strong message, and would finally get the “Brethren’s” attention, and they would have to re-evaluate. But how many will have the backbone to do that?

And/or if enough people simply quit paying tithes and offerings to the Church, and held those funds for further direction, that too would start to get some attention.

I just read an article talking about Mao and how hundreds of millions supported him even though millions were dying of starvation from his policies. The sentence from the article that synchronizes with your post:

To paraphrase Ghandi, it is not possible for a few to impose their will upon millions without their tacit acceptance.

Boy, do we need to take that message to heart in regards to the church, the government, and the globalists!

See, now we're getting somewhere.

The principle applies everywhere.

Our consent is what allows unjust men to rule over us.

They are our servants.

We are their masters.

We have been poor masters.

So they have become poor servants.

If we become good masters,

they will either become good servants

Or be swept away (either by men or God Himself)

But the answer is us.

WE must repent

and then ask THEM to repent

and refuse to consent to their illegitimate rule

no matter the cost

(the first few through the door usually end up taking a bullet, but it all works out in the end, from an eternal perspective)

in my opinion, of course.

In Constitutional terms it’s called government “by consent of the governed.” In the Church it is the concept of “Common Consent.” They mean essentially the same thing, but in both cases are mostly theoretical at this point.

But, if enough people simply start to withdraw their consent to what is going on, it starts to make a difference. To make a difference, though, it requires Critical Mass. It can’t just be onesie twosies. But if such an effort can amass enough critical mass, it can truly make a difference. And it usually starts with one person.

I have been involved in such efforts before, and can attest to their effectiveness. Unfortunately, in at least one case it involved the federal government, and when they started feeling threatened enough by the prospect of critical mass, they started killing people and throwing others in jail to shut it down, make examples, and put the fear of government into everyone else.

That kind of physical force and intimidation will probably not be the issue here, but they have a remarkable amount of mind control in their favor, and the means of putting the fear of God/church in people to the point that it will likely have the same effect — so most people roll over, and continue to offer their consent to be governed, by whatever means.

[endlessQuestions]

As a means/form of non-aggressive, passive resistance, there should be a united request to be released from callings, without any fuss, drama, or explanation. If that effort would gain traction and grow legs, and bishoprics and stake presidencies would start requesting to be released en masse, it would send a strong message, and would finally get the “Brethren’s” attention, and they would have to re-evaluate. But how many will have the backbone to do that?

And/or if enough people simply quit paying tithes and offerings to the Church, and held those funds for further direction, that too would start to get some attention.

I just read an article talking about Mao and how hundreds of millions supported him even though millions were dying of starvation from his policies. The sentence from the article that synchronizes with your post:

To paraphrase Ghandi, it is not possible for a few to impose their will upon millions without their tacit acceptance.

Boy, do we need to take that message to heart in regards to the church, the government, and the globalists!

See, now we're getting somewhere.

The principle applies everywhere.

Our consent is what allows unjust men to rule over us.

They are our servants.

We are their masters.

We have been poor masters.

So they have become poor servants.

If we become good masters,

they will either become good servants

Or be swept away (either by men or God Himself)

But the answer is us.

WE must repent

and then ask THEM to repent

and refuse to consent to their illegitimate rule

no matter the cost

(the first few through the door usually end up taking a bullet, but it all works out in the end, from an eternal perspective)

in my opinion, of course.

In Constitutional terms it’s called government “by consent of the governed.”

If enough people simply start to withdraw their consent to what is going on, it starts to make a difference. But to make a difference, it requires Critical Mass. It can’t just be onesie twosie. But if it can amass enough critical mass, it can truly make a difference. And it usually starts with one person.

I have been involved in such efforts before, and can attest to their effectiveness. Unfortunately, in at least one case it involved the federal government, and when they started feeling threatened enough by the prospect of critical mass, they started killing people and throwing others in jail to shut it down, make examples, and put the fear of government in everyone.

That kind of physical force and intimidation will not be the issue here, but they have a remarkable amount of mind control in their favor, and the means of putting the fear of God/church in people to the point that it will likely have the same effect — so most people roll over, and continue to offer their consent to be governed, by whatever means.

Well, I am one who will not.

So I guess we'll see what happens.

Do me a favor, though.

If something happens to me

Keep an eye on this place, would you?

It's kind of special to me.

[Niemand]

My position is a lot more unclear now, but it was certainly very useful to be in my calling during government restrictions. I was able to help some other people and do some things I would have been unable to without it.

[Hogmeister]

For those who haven't left "the Church" yet.

Please consider the idea that you can be a powerful influence for good in your wards and stakes simply by fleeing from Mormylon, but STAYING IN YOUR WARDS and politely but insistently demanding accountability.

Zion has to be built somewhere. Why not try building it where you've been planted?

I have a testimony that this is the church of Jesus Christ.

Like the Nephites of old, we have forsaken our Master.

But like those men and women, we can turn back to Him, renew our covenant, and allow Him to lead us once again.

I KNOW He will honor our faithful efforts.

And if they mock us?

And smite us on the cheek?

And cast us out of our synagogues?

And call us crazy?

What is that to us?

Can they harm us more than they harmed our Master, and his other faithful servants throughout the ages?

Of course not.

We can do this!

He will help!

Right there with you. I will never leave. I also know that that it is still Jesus Christ's Church.

Same

[The Red Pill]

Zion will not be built in the LDS construct. IMO.

Completely agree .

Think about it, how could they???

They don't understand their own BOM
They don't follow their own scriptures
They think secret combinations are the mob
They didn't flee Babylon, they joined it

They get caught in illegal corruption...and have the Deseret News cover for them

They publicly support gay marriage...and pretend it was about religious freedom

Sorry, but the salt has lost is savor...

I believe there will be some members involved in Zion, but not the leadership.

The Lord didn't permit the apostate Zoramite's to progress the work, even though they were part of the church...

I believe the Lord will use the apostate church as an object lesson...in what NOT to do. They are in the process of hanging themselves with the free agency rope given them.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Zion will not be built in the LDS construct. IMO.

Completely agree .

Think about it, how could they???

They don't understand their own BOM
They don't follow their own scriptures
They think secret combinations are the mob
They didn't flee Babylon, they joined it

They get caught in illegal corruption...and have the Deseret News cover for them

They publicly support gay marriage...and pretend it was about religious freedom

Sorry, but the salt has lost is savor...

I believe there will be some members involved in Zion, but not the leadership.

The Lord didn't permit the apostate Zoramite's to progress the work, even though they were part of the church...

I believe the Lord will use the apostate church as an object lesson...in what NOT to do. They are in the process of hanging themselves with the free agency rope given them.

I think one of the reasons Zion will have peace for so long during the Millenium is because the righteous will be so abhorred by the examples of the past. The face of evil masquerading as godly will literally traumatize dozens of future generations.

[tmac]

Zion will not be built in the LDS construct. IMO.

Completely agree .

Think about it, how could they???

They don't understand their own BOM
They don't follow their own scriptures
They think secret combinations are the mob
They didn't flee Babylon, they joined it

They get caught in illegal corruption...and have the Deseret News cover for them

They publicly support gay marriage...and pretend it was about religious freedom

Sorry, but the salt has lost is savor...

I believe there will be some members involved in Zion, but not the leadership.

The Lord didn't permit the apostate Zoramite's to progress the work, even though they were part of the church...

I believe the Lord will use the apostate church as an object lesson...in what NOT to do. They are in the process of hanging themselves with the free agency rope given them.

And that perspective will undoubtedly prevail if the core mainstream of the Church just stays the course and continues on its current path.

If, on the other hand, a genuine cleansing begins to occur essentially from the bottom up, and inside out, it could be a different story. The realistic likelihood of that is remote, but it may be too early to tell. It is in long odds situations like this that God can make the greatest difference in the equation.

If a critical mass of members started standing up, and if members of of the Q15 and Seventies started dropping like flies, succumbing to a combination of the vax, old age, and outright corruption, with a little help from the destroying angel, who knows what might happen?

[Dusty Wanderer]

How do you guys plan on dealing with the glass ceiling of leadership?

As a means/form of non-aggressive, passive resistance, there should be a united, grassroots request to be released from callings, without any fuss, drama, or explanation. If that effort would gain traction and grow legs, and bishoprics and stake presidencies would start requesting to be released en masse, it would send a strong message. If it caught on like “Let’s Go Brandon,” it would finally start to get the “Brethren’s” attention, and they would have to re-evaluate. But how many will have the backbone to do that?

And/or if enough people simply quit paying tithes and offerings to the Church, and held those funds for further direction, that too would start to get some attention.

There were many with this kind of backbone in the early days of the Church. From our "Utah" Church perspective, we think them all apostates. The more I study church history, though, the more I'm convinced some of them were good and honorable, and who refused to compromise on their understanding of the Gospel.

Setting aside my doubts that that kind of spine even exists in mass anymore, I wonder if most members are even aware of the concept of Common Consent as taught by Joseph? They would probably be shocked to know that Joseph himself submitted to a vote among the members to remain in the First Presidency multiple times.

[HereWeGo]

To paraphrase Ghandi, it is not possible for a few to impose their will upon millions without their tacit acceptance.

Boy, do we need to take that message to heart in regards to the church, the government, and the globalists!

Good quote. My advice to people who want to flee Mormylon is to diligently seek guidance from the Lord. Some people can serve Him from within. Some people will be more use to the Lord from outside. I have seen much success in helping from within where we were able to help people to keep a faith in Jesus, Joseph, the BoM, the gospel as taught by Joseph, etc. I also know people who have helped others keep the above faith after they have left the church.

The Lord has a different path for each of us. Don't do anything until you have firmly been guided by the Lord.

[Reluctant Watchman]

If a critical mass of members started standing up, and if members of of the Q15 and Seventies started dropping like flies, succumbing to a combination of the vax, old age, and outright corruption, with a little help from the destroying angel, who knows what might happen?

The LDS machine creates obedient servants. The top of the pyramid is the hardest and last to crack. The foundation could be in shambles and those at the top would still be extolling their virtuous examples of obesiannce to authority which they claim came from God.

[The Red Pill]

Zion will not be built in the LDS construct. IMO.

Completely agree .

Think about it, how could they???

They don't understand their own BOM
They don't follow their own scriptures
They think secret combinations are the mob
They didn't flee Babylon, they joined it

They get caught in illegal corruption...and have the Deseret News cover for them

They publicly support gay marriage...and pretend it was about religious freedom

Sorry, but the salt has lost is savor...

I believe there will be some members involved in Zion, but not the leadership.

The Lord didn't permit the apostate Zoramite's to progress the work, even though they were part of the church...

I believe the Lord will use the apostate church as an object lesson...in what NOT to do. They are in the process of hanging themselves with the free agency rope given them.

And that perspective will undoubtedly prevail if the core mainstream of the Church just stays the course and continues on its current path.

If, on the other hand, a genuine cleansing begins to occur essentially from the bottom up, and inside out, it could be a different story. The realistic likelihood of that is remote, but it may be too early to tell. It is in long odds situations like this that God can make the greatest difference in the equation.

If a critical mass of members started standing up, and if members of of the Q15 and Seventies started dropping like flies, succumbing to a combination of the vax, old age, and outright corruption, with a little help from the destroying angel, who knows what might happen?

I believe we need to follow the BOM example of the Lord not favoring a certain organization or group...The Lord cared about righteousness. Whoever was being righteous...WERE His people. It shifted...and different "ites" were worthy of his blessing and protection at different times.

Currently, I see NO prominent leaders in the LDS Church that I look up to or admire...

...who is standing tall and speaking out about the dangers of the deadly-jab????

...who is standing tall and speaking out about the corruption in government, rampant deception and secret combinations???

...who is standing tall and speaking out about the evil agenda behind the LBGTQ movement and their grooming children???

...who is standing tall and speaking out about the evil UN Agenda 2030, fake climate change nonsense and a one world government???

Crap...we've got Rasband and Ballard wearing their damn lapel pins.

The house cleaning in red-chair world would have to be more like a demolition and rebuild...personally I don't see it.

I see the Lord working through a righteous remnant that are doing righteous things right now, at great personal cost. Unfortunately...I see NO LDS leaders in that group.

I do think we see the same problem and what needs to be done...just how we get there differs.