Ongoing Investigation Into Church Finances by IRS? $20 Billion in Taxes Dodged?

[endlessQuestions]

Saw this comment on that Deseret News propaganda piece:

Hey folks, the real problem that is the ongoing investigation by the IRS. The IRS is where the big money penalties and criminal indictments will materialize. This criminal activity is settled with the SEC only, not the DOJ or IRS. This is gonna get very interesting indeed.

Anyone know anything about this?

[InfoWarrior82]

As long as the church continues going in a desired direction, the penalties and investigations will be lenient. But this will not work out in the end.


14Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

15Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

16Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

17Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

18And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

19From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

20For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

21For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.

22Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.

[endlessQuestions]

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2023/02 ... tax-fraud/

Same whistleblower that started the SEC action, I believe.

[endlessQuestions]

Ruh roh.

https://religionunplugged.com/news/2023 ... -committee

The new document alleges several new violations by EPA and its leaders.

Foreign accounts: “EPA now admits having foreign accounts, after denying it under oath for 10+ years: Mr. Nielsen’s prior submissions demonstrated that EPA has falsely denied under oath each year since at least 2007 that EPA has long had foreign bank and investment accounts, estimated to exceed $9 billion — and thus EPA is liable for FBAR (Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts) penalties of more than $2 billion. Now, EPA has finally admitted in a recently published Form 990-T filing in November 2020 (for 2019) that EPA does have foreign bank and investment accounts.” Nielsen’s document argues that EPA should be liable for more than $2 billion in penalties.

Deceptive statements: Nielsen’s document states that EPA was deceptive in describing its assets to regulators even after the stories broke in 2019 and the firm came under national scrutiny. “EPA has always had billions in assets since its formation in 1997. The deception began in 2007 with the false statement of EPA’s having only ‘$1,000,000’ in assets,” says Nielsen’s document. “In the 2019 filing, EPA continued to withhold that required information from the IRS, and to repeat the annual, false and deceptive statement, ‘OVER 1,000,000.’“

Fraudulent SEC filings: Nielsen’s document says EPA disguised its massive investment business by making filings with the SEC of Form 13F in the names of various LLCs more than 260 times over 10+ years, rather than in EPA’s own name. “Upon learning of Mr. Nielsen’s IRS submission in December 2019, EPA abruptly began filing in its own name as required. EPA’s change in approach is an admission by conduct that its more than 260 fraudulent SEC filings were improper and were acts in furtherance of a Klein conspiracy to defraud the IRS, by concealing its massive securities investment business,” the document reads.

Tax avoidance: Nielsen’s document claims EPA has not disputed his original allegations that 1) EPA engaged in no “religious, charitable or … educational” activities in the entire relevant period, 1997-2019, and 2) “EPA’s only distributions over 22 years were for the for-profit operations of an insurance company and a luxury shopping mall. This was approximately $2 billion to fund classic ‘private’ interests.”

[endlessQuestions]

Uploading the 90 page document... now.

Standby for archive.org link.

.pdf available for download, preview should be up soon

https://archive.org/details/624497727-s ... mo-1-31-21

Direct download:

https://ia601608.us.archive.org/35/item ... -31-21.pdf

[endlessQuestions]

Temporary Google Drive link:

<removed>

And no, I'm not going through this tonight.

I have to get up for seminary in the morning!

[InfoWarrior82]

New accusations in the memo
The new document alleges several new violations by EPA and its leaders.

Foreign accounts: “EPA now admits having foreign accounts, after denying it under oath for 10+ years: Mr. Nielsen’s prior submissions demonstrated that EPA has falsely denied under oath each year since at least 2007 that EPA has long had foreign bank and investment accounts, estimated to exceed $9 billion — and thus EPA is liable for FBAR (Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts) penalties of more than $2 billion. Now, EPA has finally admitted in a recently published Form 990-T filing in November 2020 (for 2019) that EPA does have foreign bank and investment accounts.” Nielsen’s document argues that EPA should be liable for more than $2 billion in penalties.

Deceptive statements: Nielsen’s document states that EPA was deceptive in describing its assets to regulators even after the stories broke in 2019 and the firm came under national scrutiny. “EPA has always had billions in assets since its formation in 1997. The deception began in 2007 with the false statement of EPA’s having only ‘$1,000,000’ in assets,” says Nielsen’s document. “In the 2019 filing, EPA continued to withhold that required information from the IRS, and to repeat the annual, false and deceptive statement, ‘OVER 1,000,000.’“

Fraudulent SEC filings: Nielsen’s document says EPA disguised its massive investment business by making filings with the SEC of Form 13F in the names of various LLCs more than 260 times over 10+ years, rather than in EPA’s own name. “Upon learning of Mr. Nielsen’s IRS submission in December 2019, EPA abruptly began filing in its own name as required. EPA’s change in approach is an admission by conduct that its more than 260 fraudulent SEC filings were improper and were acts in furtherance of a Klein conspiracy to defraud the IRS, by concealing its massive securities investment business,” the document reads.

Tax avoidance: Nielsen’s document claims EPA has not disputed his original allegations that 1) EPA engaged in no “religious, charitable or … educational” activities in the entire relevant period, 1997-2019, and 2) “EPA’s only distributions over 22 years were for the for-profit operations of an insurance company and a luxury shopping mall. This was approximately $2 billion to fund classic ‘private’ interests.”

Looks like that shopping mall is coming back to bite them.

[Trucker]

Ruh roh.

https://religionunplugged.com/news/2023 ... -committee

The new document alleges several new violations by EPA and its leaders.

Foreign accounts: “EPA now admits having foreign accounts, after denying it under oath for 10+ years: Mr. Nielsen’s prior submissions demonstrated that EPA has falsely denied under oath each year since at least 2007 that EPA has long had foreign bank and investment accounts, estimated to exceed $9 billion — and thus EPA is liable for FBAR (Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts) penalties of more than $2 billion. Now, EPA has finally admitted in a recently published Form 990-T filing in November 2020 (for 2019) that EPA does have foreign bank and investment accounts.” Nielsen’s document argues that EPA should be liable for more than $2 billion in penalties.

Deceptive statements: Nielsen’s document states that EPA was deceptive in describing its assets to regulators even after the stories broke in 2019 and the firm came under national scrutiny. “EPA has always had billions in assets since its formation in 1997. The deception began in 2007 with the false statement of EPA’s having only ‘$1,000,000’ in assets,” says Nielsen’s document. “In the 2019 filing, EPA continued to withhold that required information from the IRS, and to repeat the annual, false and deceptive statement, ‘OVER 1,000,000.’“

Fraudulent SEC filings: Nielsen’s document says EPA disguised its massive investment business by making filings with the SEC of Form 13F in the names of various LLCs more than 260 times over 10+ years, rather than in EPA’s own name. “Upon learning of Mr. Nielsen’s IRS submission in December 2019, EPA abruptly began filing in its own name as required. EPA’s change in approach is an admission by conduct that its more than 260 fraudulent SEC filings were improper and were acts in furtherance of a Klein conspiracy to defraud the IRS, by concealing its massive securities investment business,” the document reads.

Tax avoidance: Nielsen’s document claims EPA has not disputed his original allegations that 1) EPA engaged in no “religious, charitable or … educational” activities in the entire relevant period, 1997-2019, and 2) “EPA’s only distributions over 22 years were for the for-profit operations of an insurance company and a luxury shopping mall. This was approximately $2 billion to fund classic ‘private’ interests.”

Oh boy

[Tall.Traveler]

I don't know about the substance of Nielsen's allegations, but it's important to point out that whistleblowers can receive from 15% to 30% of any amounts that the government collects. There's no doubt in my mind that this guy is trying to cash in any way he can and he's been trying for several years now.

[endlessQuestions]

I don't know about the substance of Nielsen's allegations, but it's important to point out that whistleblowers can receive from 15% to 30% of any amounts that the government collects. There's no doubt in my mind that this guy is trying to cash in any way he can and he's been trying for several years now.

Well, he's 1-0 on the SEC allegations.

Innocent until proven guilty, of course.

But your point is well taken.

Are you suggesting we should ignore the document?

[endlessQuestions]

Just a drop of that water to whet your appetite:

"Oversight is needed to rectify a glaring double standard in tax enforcement: tolerating influential, politically connected organizations that use fraud and false statements to unlawfully claim tax-exempt status. Since most
taxpaying citizens are held accountable if they violate our tax laws, the result is that law-abiding Americans not
only bear a greater share of the tax burden, but also lose confidence in the fairness of our tax system.1

For 22 years, the corporation known as Ensign Peak Advisors, Inc. (“EPA”) has employed corrupt practices—
falsified books and records, false statements, and deception—to masquerade as tax-exempt, even though EPA
failed to engage in any charitable activities for 22 years. Moreover, for many years EPA management have
operated corruptly, without basic controls and with fraudulent accounting, and have conspired to hide EPA’s
behavior and assets from the IRS and other government entities. EPA’s managers have also regularly permitted
large assets to be “deleted” from EPA’s books, which is strong evidence of “private inurement.” With such
evidence of private inurement and with no charitable activities over the period, it is clear that EPA has never
been tax-exempt."

Geez, how'd they get so politically connected <cough, cough, Beverly Campbell, cough, cough>?

"private inurement"? That sounds scary.

https://www.nonprofitexpert.com/nonprof ... ment-mean/

What is inurement?

Inurement occurs when an “insider” of an exempt organization receives any of an organization’s net income or inappropriately uses any of its assets for personal gain. An insider is a person who has a personal and private interest in the activities of an organization. Examples are officers, directors, and key employees. Any amount of inurement, no matter how small, can jeopardize an organization’s tax-exempt status. (This does not include paying reasonable salaries or providing services to individuals as part of an organization’s exempt-function activities.)

Oh, that's not so ba-

Hey, wait a minute!

That *does* sound bad!

[endlessQuestions]

And a table of contents for the night owls (which in the document is clickable - take that, Spencer W. Kimball journals!)

Contents
I. Executive Summary..................................................................................................................................... 4
II. Factual Background..................................................................................................................................... 7
A. With a history of operating “for-profit” businesses, Church leaders decided to incorporate
EPA in 1997. ........................................................................................................................................ 7
B. EPA’s principals have sophisticated financial backgrounds. ......................................................... 8
C. EPA’s for-profit business enterprise and investment fund grew tax-free to more than $100
billion.................................................................................................................................................... 9
D. EPA’s only distributions over 22 years (through 2019) have been to benefit “private interests”
and profit-making purposes, which preclude tax-exempt status................................................... 10
E. Mr. Nielsen learns that EPA has used none of its $100 billion for “religious, charitable . . . or
educational purposes” in 22 years. ................................................................................................... 11
F. Evidence of Systematic Accounting Fraud and Private Inurement at EPA—Including Years of
“Disappearance” of Assets from EPA’s Books, EPA’s Lack of Internal Controls for Senior
Officials, the Manipulation of EPA’s Books, and Resulting Unreliability of EPA’s Records. .. 11
1. EPA has been especially susceptible to financial malfeasance. .............................................. 12
2. Assets have been frequently deleted from EPA’s accounting system, for apparently at least
a decade........................................................................................................................................ 12
3. After Mr. Nielsen made EPA management aware of the problem, EPA management
deceptively continued to permit the deletion of assets............................................................. 13
4. EPA engaged in a sham "audit," which is further evidence of systematic accounting fraud
and private inurement. ............................................................................................................... 13
5. EPA lacked internal controls over cash.................................................................................... 14
6. EPA’s cash figures don’t generally reconcile. .......................................................................... 16
7. Conclusion: Strong evidence of accounting fraud and private inurement............................ 16
G. After Mr. Nielsen tries and fails to cause EPA’s officials to comply with the law, Mr. Nielsen
resigns in 2019. .................................................................................................................................. 17
H. The Klein conspiracy: as acts in furtherance, EPA made more than 260 fraudulent SEC filings
in the names of other entities—rather than in its own name—to conceal its vast securities
investment business........................................................................................................................... 17
1. EPA was required to make disclosures on SEC Form 13F each quarter since 1997. ..... 18
2. EPA initially gives false explanations to its portfolio managers about its use of LLCs.. 18
3. At an emergency meeting in May 2018, EPA’s CIO admits EPA’s deception to Mr.
Nielsen and other portfolio managers............................................................................................. 19
4. Once EPA has an opportunity to review Mr. Nielsen’s pro se IRS submission in
December 2019, EPA abruptly begins filing Form 13F in its own name..................................... 20
I. As additional acts in furtherance of a Klein conspiracy, EPA made more than 20 years of
material false statements to the IRS and other non-disclosures, to conceal EPA’s vast business
enterprise. .......................................................................................................................................... 20
Page | iii
1. EPA repeatedly made material false statements regarding the value of EPA’s assets in IRS
filings, which is further evidence of a Klein conspiracy............................................................... 21
2. Through years of additional false statements, EPA also concealed its ownership and
authority over foreign accounts in these 2007-2018 IRS filings, as further evidence of a Klein
conspiracy......................................................................................................................................... 25
3. By willfully failing to file FBARs each year, EPA violated its duty to disclose its billions
held in foreign accounts, as further evidence of a Klein conspiracy and as a basis for FBAR
penalties............................................................................................................................................ 30
III. Criminal Statutes Violated by EPA.......................................................................................................... 32
A. 18 USC § 371: EPA participated in a Klein conspiracy to defeat the lawful functioning of the
IRS...................................................................................................................................................... 32
B. 26 U.S.C. § 7206: False Declarations under Penalties of Perjury, Preparation of False
Returns............................................................................................................................................... 34
C. 18 USC § 1001: False Statements. ................................................................................................... 34
D. 26 U.S.C. § 7201: Tax Evasion......................................................................................................... 35
E. 31 U.S.C. § 5314: Failure to file FBARs.......................................................................................... 36
F. Various criminal statutes applicable to EPA’s more than 260 fraudulent SEC filings of Form
13F in other entities’ names. ............................................................................................................ 36
IV. EPA is Liable for Substantial Unpaid Tax and FBAR Penalties. ......................................................... 37
A. EPA and its vast securities investment fund are operated as a for-profit business, and EPA is
not an “Integrated Auxiliary” of the Church................................................................................. 38
B. EPA fails Integrated Auxiliary status by failing the requirements of IRC § 501(c)(3). ............. 39
1. The “purpose requirement” of IRC § 501(c)(3)....................................................................... 40
2. The “operational test” of IRC § 501(c)(3)................................................................................. 40
3. The “prohibition limitation” of IRC § 501(c)(3). ..................................................................... 40
4. EPA also fails IRC § 501(c)(3) because EPA’s only distributions over 22 years were to
transfer $2 billion to benefit classic “private interests”—an insurance company and a luxury
shopping mall...................................................................................................................................... 41
5. Providing for possible future events does not satisfy IRC § 501(c)(3). .................................. 47
6. Accumulation of funds is evidence of commercial purposes and failure to satisfy IRC
501(c)(3)............................................................................................................................................... 48
7. Substantial commercial purpose, sizable profits, and substantial reserves are evidence of
failure to satisfy IRC § 501(c)(3). ...................................................................................................... 49
8. Securities trading and accumulation of funds falls short of charitable purpose and of IRC §
501(c)(3)............................................................................................................................................... 50
9. Competing with commercial firms is strong evidence of primary nonexempt purpose which
fails IRC § 501(c)(3). .......................................................................................................................... 51
10. Failing to allocate resources to exempt purposes fails IRC § 501(c)(3). ................................ 52
11. Conclusion: EPA clearly fails the requirements of IRC § 501(c)(3). ..................................... 52
Page | iv
C. EPA also fails to qualify as an Integrated Auxiliary because it fails to fulfill the requirements
of IRC § 509(a)(1), (2), or (3). .......................................................................................................... 52
1. The four subsections of IRC § 509(a)........................................................................................ 53
2. EPA falls short of being an IRC § 509(a)(3) “supporting organization.”.............................. 53
3. EPA is not operated for the benefit of a charity. ..................................................................... 54
4. Conclusion: EPA clearly fails the requirements of IRC § 509(a)........................................... 55
D. Consequences of EPA’s failing to satisfy Integrated Auxiliary status......................................... 55
1. EPA was never exempt from tax and should have paid tax every year................................. 55
2. EPA also apparently failed to apply for exemption, and cannot be exempt as a result of
such failure.......................................................................................................................................... 55
3. EPA was required to file tax returns every year...................................................................... 56
4. EPA has also violated the rules governing “private foundations.” ........................................ 57
5. EPA should have filed FBARs every year and is subject to penalties for failing to do so. .. 58
6. Tax statute of limitations has not expired because EPA has failed to file tax returns. ........ 59
7. FBAR penalty statute of limitations has not expired because EPA has failed to file
FBARs.................................................................................................................................................. 59
V. Private Inurement is a Separate and Independent Reason Why EPA Cannot Qualify for Exempt
Status........................................................................................................................................................... 60
A. Any amount of “private inurement” disqualifies EPA from tax exemption................................ 62
B. EPA bears the burden of proving the absence of “private inurement.”...................................... 62
C. The years of deleting assets from EPA’s records, with the resulting unreliability of EPA’s
records, render it impossible for EPA to prove the absence of private inurement. ................... 63
VI. Conclusion .................................................................................................................................................. 64
EXHIBITS ........................................................................................................................................................... 66
ATTACHMENTS ............................................................................................................................................... 68
ATTACHMENT A: ................................................................................................................................. A-1
EPA’S Vast Business Enterprise and Investment Fund.................................................................... A-1
A. EPA has conducted a vast investment business enterprise. .................................................. A-1
B. EPA actively manages certain of its portfolios and rigorously controls all of its
portfolios. ............................................................................................................................................... A-1
C. EPA’s investment management team...................................................................................... A-1
D. EPA’s business model is highly successful and allows EPA to compete successfully with
Wall Street investment firms. .............................................................................................................. A-2
E. EPA’s Investment Fund. ................................................................................................................ A-3
ATTACHMENT B: ................................................................................................................................. B-1
Details of EPA’S More Than 260 Fraudulent SEC Filings—Which Were Acts in Furtherance of
the Klein Conspiracy to Defeat the Lawful Functioning of the IRS................................................. B-1
Page | v
A. Timeline of EPA’s fraudulent SEC filings.............................................................................. B-1
B. LLCs that EPA used to avoid filing in its own name............................................................. B-2
C. Documentation that EPA never filed form 13F in its own name until after receiving Mr.
Nielsen’s pro se IRS submission in December 2019. .......................................................................... B-2
D. Analysis of the stocks involved further proves EPA’s fraudulent filings. ........................... B-3
ATTACHMENT C: ................................................................................................................................. C-1
If the Service Wishes to Treat EPA as a Private Foundation........................................................... C-1
A. Factors that bring about private foundation status............................................................... C-1
B. Consequences of being regarded as a private foundation other than an operating
foundation.............................................................................................................................................. C-1
C. Tax on net investment income. ................................................................................................ C-2
D. EPA does not qualify for the exclusion from tax on undistributed income......................... C-3
E. EPA does not qualify for the exclusion from tax on net investment income....................... C-3
i. Conclusion: If taxed as a private foundation, EPA is liable for tax on undistributed income
as well as tax on net investment income.................................................................................. C-3
ii. EPA’s total tax as a private foundation exceeds $13 billion. ................................................ C-3
ATTACHMENT D: ................................................................................................................................. D-1
EPA’s Tax Payable and FBAR Penalties............................................................................................ D-1
A. EPA’s tax payable as a C corporation exceeds $20 billion.................................................... D-1
B. EPA’s tax payable as a private foundation exceeds $13 billion............................................ D-1
C. EPA’s FBAR penalty for 2018 alone exceeds $2.2 billion. .................................................... D-1
TABLE A – TAX AS A C CORPORATION ..................................................................................... D-3
TABLE B – TAX AS A PRIVATE FOUNDATION.......................................................................... D-5

[endlessQuestions]

Here's the one I want to read in the morning:

H. The Klein conspiracy: as acts in furtherance, EPA made more than 260 fraudulent SEC filings
in the names of other entities—rather than in its own name—to conceal its vast securities
investment business........................................................................................................................... 17

[endlessQuestions]

And, since I made the $20 billion part of the title, let's just get that out of the way so Duke can come explain to us how even though it IS about tax avoidance, we are still just silly, jealous, peasants that "miss understand" what he's trying to tell us:

A. EPA’s tax payable as a C corporation exceeds $20 billion.

Mr. Nielsen has quantified an estimate of EPA’s tax liability as a C corporation based on his knowledge of the
facts, and on certain assumptions referred to in the attached Table A. Table A provides a broad estimate of
EPA’s aggregate tax liability as a C corporation over the period 1997-2018. With a view to keeping the model
straightforward, adjustments have not been made for known factors that apply to certain specific years.
For example, the model shows tithing as zero or negative in certain years, when in reality tithing was received
in those years. This is with a view to retaining simplicity in the model. Mr. Nielsen can adjust the model to
increase year on year accuracy, but doing so will entail complexity.
In light of the above, aspects of the model for a particular year may be imprecise, but overall the model is likely
to be broadly correct both in direction and magnitude.
As appears from Table A, EPA’s tax payable as a C corporation in 2018 is in excess of $1.2 billion, and over
the period 1997 – 2018 is in excess of $20 billion.

[HVDC]

There is something more here beyond tax avoidance.

What are they hiding?

Every fund tries to make money.

How were they making money.

And with who.

If this were me.

I wouldn't be sleeping too well.

Sir H

[endlessQuestions]

There is something more here beyond tax avoidance.

What are they hiding?

Every fund tries to make money.

How were they making money.

And with who.

If this were me.

I wouldn't be sleeping too well.

Sir H

No wonder they consider that pesky SEC matter "closed".

They've got work to do!

p.s. - I see your questions, but have no idea how to pursue it. My one lead didn't pan out... any hints as to how to find an answer?

Because I'd DEFINITELY like to have an answer for that TRILLION dollar question:

How were they making money?

EDIT: Hmmm.

"The filings do not include all the church’s financial holdings, such as bonds, and the church isn’t required to disclose its holdings in property or private companies."

[HVDC]

There is something more here beyond tax avoidance.

What are they hiding?

Every fund tries to make money.

How were they making money.

And with who.

If this were me.

I wouldn't be sleeping too well.

Sir H

No wonder they consider that pesky SEC matter "closed".

They've got work to do!

p.s. - I see your questions, but have no idea how to pursue it. My one lead didn't pan out... any hints as to how to find an answer?

Because I'd DEFINITELY like to have an answer for that TRILLION dollar question:

How were they making money?

I have no idea how to find out.

But I do think it all ties into what they were upto during the Beverly years.

it might even tie into what is going on right now in Eastern Europe.

Speculation of course.

For now.

Sir H

[Tall.Traveler]

I don't know about the substance of Nielsen's allegations, but it's important to point out that whistleblowers can receive from 15% to 30% of any amounts that the government collects. There's no doubt in my mind that this guy is trying to cash in any way he can and he's been trying for several years now.

Well, he's 1-0 on the SEC allegations.

Innocent until proven guilty, of course.

But your point is well taken.

Are you suggesting we should ignore the document?

I think the tax allegations are very much a stretch and reflective of a desperate attempt to try to make money, but the latest news does not help EP's credibility.

[endlessQuestions]

I don't know about the substance of Nielsen's allegations, but it's important to point out that whistleblowers can receive from 15% to 30% of any amounts that the government collects. There's no doubt in my mind that this guy is trying to cash in any way he can and he's been trying for several years now.

Well, he's 1-0 on the SEC allegations.

Innocent until proven guilty, of course.

But your point is well taken.

Are you suggesting we should ignore the document?

I think the tax allegations are very much a stretch and reflective of a desperate attempt to try to make money, but the latest news does not help EP's credibility.

I know this might be surprising, but I sure hope you're right about the first part.

And I *know* you're right about the second part.

This guy worked there until 2019 - do you know what the PENALTIES are for lying, if he is indeed caught trying to make a quick buck?

And out of curiosity, are you qualified to make your assertion regarding it being a "desparate attempt"? Just curious, because this stuff is all Greek to me.

[endlessQuestions]

There is something more here beyond tax avoidance.

What are they hiding?

Every fund tries to make money.

How were they making money.

And with who.

If this were me.

I wouldn't be sleeping too well.

Sir H

No wonder they consider that pesky SEC matter "closed".

They've got work to do!

p.s. - I see your questions, but have no idea how to pursue it. My one lead didn't pan out... any hints as to how to find an answer?

Because I'd DEFINITELY like to have an answer for that TRILLION dollar question:

How were they making money?

I have no idea how to find out.

But I do think it all ties into what they were upto during the Beverly years.

it might even tie into what is going on right now in Eastern Europe.

Speculation of course.

For now.

Sir H

You-kraine.

I-kraine.

We all kraine

for CIA-kraine

[Ebenezer]

I don't know about the substance of Nielsen's allegations...

...There's no doubt in my mind

Come on, man.

[Fred]

As long as the church continues going in a desired direction, the penalties and investigations will be lenient. But this will not work out in the end.


14Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

15Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

16Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

17Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

18And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

19From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

20For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

21For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.

22Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.

Isn't it amusing how many scriptures are not in the Q15's books? Or maybe those scriptures don't count. Like Isaiah speaking of Drunkards of Ephraim. RMN says "Hmm, I don't remember reading that part." Or "Those scriptures do not apply to us. They are talking about someone else."

[Ebenezer]

Nielsen may very well be trying to cash in. But he apparently has a very qualified legal team and is in this fight for the duration - which can be a long time when the IRS is involved.

So far, the things he blew the whistle on are proving to be accurate.

Apparently the WaPo outed him by name without his consent as well, which has made his life miserable.

I'm less concerned about his motives though. I'm very concerned about the potential criminal behavior of men who claim to stand between me and salvation.

[Seed Starter]

Saw this comment on that Deseret News propaganda piece:

Hey folks, the real problem that is the ongoing investigation by the IRS. The IRS is where the big money penalties and criminal indictments will materialize. This criminal activity is settled with the SEC only, not the DOJ or IRS. This is gonna get very interesting indeed.

Anyone know anything about this?

How funny I saw that comment too

[Hogmeister]

Thanks for the link to the document. I'm reading the document with much interest as I am an internal auditor at a major bank since 14 years. I can already see that this may contain more meat than the usual attempts to harm the institution by a disaffected once member of the church. It was difficult to judge the merits of the accusations solely based on the summary. I'm only on page 13 thus far but there seems to be meat if what is written is true.