Drag Queen Story hour protected by the Church

[Reluctant Watchman]

God has to allow the possibility of sin for without that we have no agency and cannot grow, but according to His word He does not love it. Unless we repent we'll find out how much God hates sin.

Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! (Matthew 18:7)

There is a big difference between hate and not loving or agreeing with something.

 Alma 26:34 
34 For behold, they would take up arms against their brethren; they would not suffer themselves to be slain. But behold how many of these have laid down their lives; and we know that they have gone to their God, because of their love and of their hatred to sin.

 Alma 37:32 
32 And now, my son, remember the words which I have spoken unto you; trust not those secret plans unto this people, but teach them an everlasting hatred against sin and iniquity.

You need to read the Book of Mormon more carefully.

And here is from Jesus Himself:

 Rev. 2:6 
6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

It seems like you guys think my comments were condoning sin. They were not. I truly believe God had a different perspective on sin. Sin allows for opposition which then leads to our progression. Does He want us to sin willingly? No. Will we sin? Yes. It’s one of the only way we can learn and progress.

So maybe my view is a bit nuanced. Should we “hate” sin. Sure.

[HVDC]

Not too long ago I believed exactly as you all do. I then had an opportunity to help at a counseling center working under 27 counselors. Many of these people you condemn have had severe childhood trauma wether it be abuse, or being born as both genders (this really does happen more often than we think). It was heartbreaking for me to see that in most cases they hadn’t just chose to be this way. I was so ashamed of myself for passing judgment on them. I don’t know if this number is still accurate but a couple of years ago 97% of lesbians had been severely abused by a man. I still would not chose to take my children to this event, but I never want to be one that would be associated with making these peoples lives anymore difficult than they already are. Yes they have every right to protest and I also understand that felt like they were doing the right thing and most of them were not doing anything wrong. I appreciate people trying to protect innocent children, fighting for pornographic material to be removed form schools, fighting for our Christian rights. I think we are all more similar than we want to believe. And once again if I didn’t feel my brother was being unfairly portrayed I would’ve not came on this forum.

Just out of curiosity have any of you ever served in a leadership position that have had people come into your office completely broken because they were struggling with their gender?or they were born with both male and female chromosomes? I would love to hear your experiences if you have.

Some people struggle with their gender.

Because they are attention seeking narcissists.

And the more society gives them that attention.

The more people will jump on the look at me bandwagon.

You are hurting them.

Not helping them.

They need professional help.

They kind of help a Bishop or Stake President cannot provide.

You are Naive.

Whether you have had professional training or not.

And should be kept far far away from mentally ill people.

Reminds me of when my Branch wanted volunteers to Minister at the local prison.

I asked the leadership if they were going to send these well meaning volunteers to a training class which would teach them about the psychology of inmates and about the various scams they use on well meaning but unsuspecting people.

This kind of training used to be given to civilian workers and volunteers in prisons.

Guards receive it during their training.

The answer.

Why would we need to do that?

You are an example of just such a person.

Who didn't receive any training.

Or if you did.

It didn't take.

Yes.

Some people believe all kinds of things that aren't real.

Religious people are in that group.

People are either sane or insane.

If one is confused as to what sex they are.

Tell them to Disrobe and look in a mirror.

Penis = Male

No Penis = Female

Still confused?

Ask for a second opinion.

If they are attractive.

I will volunteer my expertise.

You however.

Should stay home.

Better for everyone.

Take up knitting.

Sir H

Woah! That was intense!
No professional training. I was just there to help a friend out who was the owner. I don’t work there anymore. It was too hard for me to see people so sad.
I also didn’t say a bishop or stake president could provide help for them. I simply asked if anyone had this experience. Some of you like to put words in my mouth.
“Attention seeking narcissists” that statement also tells me you have not had any professional training either.
Knitting?! I like that idea! Thanks for the suggestion!

Fiesty.

I like feisty.

Sir H

[BroJones]

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:10 am
This is incredible.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made that statement. It was official. (Or I should say the official spokesperson for the church made that statement.)". UNQUOTE

I'm not buying that. Yes, I disagree with what the Chubbuck Stake President wrote (as quoted in the news article cited in the OP), but he's not my Stake President. Fortunately.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:10 am
This is incredible.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made that statement. It was official. (Or I should say the official spokesperson for the church made that statement.)". UNQUOTE

I'm not buying that. Yes, I disagree with what the Chubbuck Stake President wrote (as quoted in the news article cited in the OP), but he's not my Stake President. Fortunately.

What aren’t you buying? Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words. It did not come from him. He said so himself. This came from the church.

[BroJones]

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:10 am
This is incredible.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made that statement. It was official. (Or I should say the official spokesperson for the church made that statement.)". UNQUOTE

I'm not buying that. Yes, I disagree with what the Chubbuck Stake President wrote (as quoted in the news article cited in the OP), but he's not my Stake President. Fortunately.

What aren’t you buying? Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words. It did not come from him. He said so himself. This came from the church.

NONSENSE! "Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words." No way you can prove that with the information we have available...

Yes, you could ask this SP... go ahead. I suspect he's getting a lot of mail/email these days. (I hope so!)

[Reluctant Watchman]

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:10 am
This is incredible.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made that statement. It was official. (Or I should say the official spokesperson for the church made that statement.)". UNQUOTE

I'm not buying that. Yes, I disagree with what the Chubbuck Stake President wrote (as quoted in the news article cited in the OP), but he's not my Stake President. Fortunately.

What aren’t you buying? Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words. It did not come from him. He said so himself. This came from the church.

NONSENSE! "Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words." No way you can prove that with the information we have available... Yes, you could ask this SP... go ahead. I suspect he's getting a lot of messages these days.

BroJones, the stake president made a post on his personal facebook page. You would have read that if you had taken the time to read this thread. This is a direct quote from his FB page:

“Because of my role as the priesthood advisor for Communications and Media Relations in the Pocatello Area, my name was attached to the statement which came from church headquarters. Therefore, the Church made the statement for clarification through me, the local representative of the Church.”

Here’s his FB profile: https://www.facebook.com/cameron.brower.9

Scroll down to the post that begins with “To be Christlike..”

Then scroll down in the comments and see the one that he wrote. The quote I noted above is right there in black and white. “NONSENSE!!” Indeed.

[BroJones]

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:10 am
This is incredible.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made that statement. It was official. (Or I should say the official spokesperson for the church made that statement.)". UNQUOTE

I'm not buying that. Yes, I disagree with what the Chubbuck Stake President wrote (as quoted in the news article cited in the OP), but he's not my Stake President. Fortunately.

What aren’t you buying? Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words. It did not come from him. He said so himself. This came from the church.

NONSENSE! "Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words." No way you can prove that with the information we have available... Yes, you could ask this SP... go ahead. I suspect he's getting a lot of messages these days.

BroJones, the stake president made a post on his personal facebook page. You would have read that if you had taken the time to read this thread. This is a direct quote from his FB page:

“Because of my role as the priesthood advisor for Communications and Media Relations in the Pocatello Area, my name was attached to the statement which came from church headquarters. Therefore, the Church made the statement for clarification through me, the local representative of the Church.”

Here’s his FB profile: https://www.facebook.com/cameron.brower.9

Scroll down to the post that begins with “To be Christlike..”

Then scroll down in the comments and see the one that he wrote. The quote I noted above is right there in black and white. “NONSENSE!!” Indeed.

My apologies, RW. I am shocked, to tell the truth.

[Lizzy60]

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:10 am
This is incredible.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made that statement. It was official. (Or I should say the official spokesperson for the church made that statement.)". UNQUOTE

I'm not buying that. Yes, I disagree with what the Chubbuck Stake President wrote (as quoted in the news article cited in the OP), but he's not my Stake President. Fortunately.

What aren’t you buying? Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words. It did not come from him. He said so himself. This came from the church.

NONSENSE! "Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words." No way you can prove that with the information we have available...

Yes, you could ask this SP... go ahead. I suspect he's getting a lot of mail/email these days. (I hope so!)

Bro Jones —
On page 5 of this thread, the sister of the SP joined our conversation to defend her brother. She is Badgerone45. She says many times that her brother, the Stake President, and PR spokesman for the area, was given the statement by Church HQ in Salt Lake, and they asked him to sign it and publish it. Which he did, like a good little boy, always obedient to his elders.

Edit to add that I see you have realized that we were correct, but I’m leaving this here in case you want to check out what his sister had to say.

[Reluctant Watchman]

My apologies, RW. I am shocked, to tell the truth.

No worries. Apology accepted. I have a friend on FB who’s “in the boat.” She had a similar reaction to you. Upon first hearing it she said, “What the hell?” She thought this was a rogue SP, and was shocked to find out this came from church HQ.

What church headquarters did is inexcusable.

[InfoWarrior82]

What aren’t you buying? Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words. It did not come from him. He said so himself. This came from the church.

NONSENSE! "Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words." No way you can prove that with the information we have available... Yes, you could ask this SP... go ahead. I suspect he's getting a lot of messages these days.

BroJones, the stake president made a post on his personal facebook page. You would have read that if you had taken the time to read this thread. This is a direct quote from his FB page:

“Because of my role as the priesthood advisor for Communications and Media Relations in the Pocatello Area, my name was attached to the statement which came from church headquarters. Therefore, the Church made the statement for clarification through me, the local representative of the Church.”

Here’s his FB profile: https://www.facebook.com/cameron.brower.9

Scroll down to the post that begins with “To be Christlike..”

Then scroll down in the comments and see the one that he wrote. The quote I noted above is right there in black and white. “NONSENSE!!” Indeed.

My apologies, RW. I am shocked, to tell the truth.

After the past three years, you're still shocked?

[helloitsme]

(Note: This was written to BroJones, "I am shocked" quote from above, but when it got posted it looked like it was referring to a later post--just for clarity--I fixed it just now.)

I think we all are. This demonstrates institutional control, institutional managment of a narrative, and perhaps even more darkly, a Stanley Milgram-esque compliance on the part of the Stake President--though I don't judge him because I cannot know what was going through his mind. There was a lot of discussion earlier in the thread about what the SP himself thought about it, and whether or not he supported the directive--and of course, he could have told the Church to cram it and make their own statement, but that wasn't going to happen.

So there was a fair amount of derision being cast about both towards him personally, and to the Church, and the Stake President's sister (she eventually revealed as much), was going back and forth trying to defend her brother, as well as the idea of not supporting the "hateful and divisive behavior" toward the drag-queens. Although I disagreed with her and invited her to defend her positions, she mostly did not, or could not, or--maybe she really hadn't thought all of this through. I think some people were a bit hard on her--I tried to be respectful and not make it personal.

We're in very difficult times. No decent people can support this insanity, and no church which professes anything other than complete depravity can chastise people peacefully and legally pushing back. What's really disturbing--to me anyway--is that there are people--whoever was manning the ship in SLC, the SP who wouldn't say no to the church, and sadly, people like his sister that seem think that loving people--quite literally, in their sins, safety of the children be damned--that this is the way to demonstrate dedication to Jesus Christ and his teachings.

You don't take your kids to the freeway, turn them loose and say, "Yay! We love all kinds of cars, and we don't judge the ones who are expressng themselves at 70 mph."

And for the people stupid enough to even consider such a thing, fortunately, inspired adults showed up, read their Bibles, and de-facto created a guardrail.

[Obeone]

My apologies, RW. I am shocked, to tell the truth.

Bro Jones, what is your view on our duty to follow the Spirit more than the prophet?

Also, what is your view on "safe and effective" statement from the First Presidency?

Doesn't it look like a lesson God is giving to the Church to forever learn that the Spirit of God outranks the prophet every time? And if they do not learn this key lesson they cannot grow up as God wants them to?

(BTW I respect greatly your courage and integrity in exposing the controlled demolitions of 911).

The Church is true, but we need to grow up. This is a solid doctrine.

[Trucker]

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:10 am
This is incredible.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made that statement. It was official. (Or I should say the official spokesperson for the church made that statement.)". UNQUOTE

I'm not buying that. Yes, I disagree with what the Chubbuck Stake President wrote (as quoted in the news article cited in the OP), but he's not my Stake President. Fortunately.

What aren’t you buying? Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words. It did not come from him. He said so himself. This came from the church.

NONSENSE! "Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words." No way you can prove that with the information we have available... Yes, you could ask this SP... go ahead. I suspect he's getting a lot of messages these days.

BroJones, the stake president made a post on his personal facebook page. You would have read that if you had taken the time to read this thread. This is a direct quote from his FB page:

“Because of my role as the priesthood advisor for Communications and Media Relations in the Pocatello Area, my name was attached to the statement which came from church headquarters. Therefore, the Church made the statement for clarification through me, the local representative of the Church.”

Here’s his FB profile: https://www.facebook.com/cameron.brower.9

Scroll down to the post that begins with “To be Christlike..”

Then scroll down in the comments and see the one that he wrote. The quote I noted above is right there in black and white. “NONSENSE!!” Indeed.

I love the use of the passive voice: "my name was attached to the statement which came from church headquarters".

Just like when Dieter got busted donating to political camp gains against church policy: "These donations were made by our family using an online account, which is shared by our family and associated with my name,”

[Reluctant Watchman]

The Church is true, but we need to grow up. This is a solid doctrine.

??? The church huh… What is the church? Who defines what the church is? I honestly have to ask, do you think the Lord is going to completely overhaul this organization from top to bottom? He’d literally have to start over. Every temple should be torn down and/or sold to care for the poor.

[Reluctant Watchman]

You can’t make this stuff up: “ Push to require Mormon clergy to report child sexual abuse in Utah stalls”

WTH Utah?

Are you TBMs awake yet?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/push-to-requ ... tGNC8SJ2nc

[NeveR]

The Church is true, but we need to grow up. This is a solid doctrine.

??? The church huh… What is the church? Who defines what the church is? I honestly have to ask, do you think the Lord is going to completely overhaul this organization from top to bottom? He’d literally have to start over. Every temple should be torn down and/or sold to care for the poor.

Maybe the lesson is that no matter how well-intentioned or Godly at the outset, ALL churches end up becoming an obstacle between human beings and a real relationship with the Lord?

Maybe all we really need in the end is a good heart and and honest desire to do the Lord's bidding here on earth?

[Reluctant Watchman]

The Church is true, but we need to grow up. This is a solid doctrine.

??? The church huh… What is the church? Who defines what the church is? I honestly have to ask, do you think the Lord is going to completely overhaul this organization from top to bottom? He’d literally have to start over. Every temple should be torn down and/or sold to care for the poor.

Maybe the lesson is that no matter how well-intentioned or Godly at the outset, ALL churches end up becoming an obstacle between human beings and a real relationship with the Lord?

Maybe all we really need in the end is a good heart and and honest desire to do the Lord's bidding here on earth?

While I believe those are vital, and are essential to the Lord’s teachings, I do think we need some set of doctrinal precedents in order for Zion to be established. I don’t think it’s super complicated, but there has to be some structure. While offenses would be rare if all people had a good heart, some type of boundaries would have to be set.

Which earthly body is capable of handing down judgements for things like murder or pedophilia? What about marriage or the lack thereof? What about how we perceive fornication, sex outside of marriage?

Then we get into things like population growth, caring for the earth, and handling conflict with other groups or nations. The core doctrine is simple, faith, repentance, baptism of fire and HG, but then we would need to define what His other teachings really are. Polygamy would need to come up. Tithing and consecration clearly defined. We could go down the list. I don’t see this as being super difficult, but maybe it’s just more of my self-affirming beliefs. Of course I don’t want to argue with myself.

[BroJones]

What aren’t you buying? Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words. It did not come from him. He said so himself. This came from the church.

NONSENSE! "Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words." No way you can prove that with the information we have available... Yes, you could ask this SP... go ahead. I suspect he's getting a lot of messages these days.

BroJones, the stake president made a post on his personal facebook page. You would have read that if you had taken the time to read this thread. This is a direct quote from his FB page:

“Because of my role as the priesthood advisor for Communications and Media Relations in the Pocatello Area, my name was attached to the statement which came from church headquarters. Therefore, the Church made the statement for clarification through me, the local representative of the Church.”

Here’s his FB profile: https://www.facebook.com/cameron.brower.9

Scroll down to the post that begins with “To be Christlike..”

Then scroll down in the comments and see the one that he wrote. The quote I noted above is right there in black and white. “NONSENSE!!” Indeed.

My apologies, RW. I am shocked, to tell the truth.

For the record, this from that Stk President in Idaho:

QUOTE from FB,
The protest consisted of private citizens some of whom happen to be members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and members from other Christian churches.
Because of my role as the priesthood advisor for Communications and Media Relations in the Pocatello Area, my name was attached to the statement which came from church headquarters. Therefore, the Church made the statement for clarification through me, the local representative of the Church.
And yes, I agreed to have my name attached to the statement and to represent the church in this area and concerning this matter.
Once the article was updated, there were some adjustments made to the original article, including adding the Church’s official statement.
Therefore, it was an official statement from the Church and not just “opinion” of a local stake president.
UNQUOTE

[spiritMan]

NONSENSE! "Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words." No way you can prove that with the information we have available... Yes, you could ask this SP... go ahead. I suspect he's getting a lot of messages these days.

BroJones, the stake president made a post on his personal facebook page. You would have read that if you had taken the time to read this thread. This is a direct quote from his FB page:

“Because of my role as the priesthood advisor for Communications and Media Relations in the Pocatello Area, my name was attached to the statement which came from church headquarters. Therefore, the Church made the statement for clarification through me, the local representative of the Church.”

Here’s his FB profile: https://www.facebook.com/cameron.brower.9

Scroll down to the post that begins with “To be Christlike..”

Then scroll down in the comments and see the one that he wrote. The quote I noted above is right there in black and white. “NONSENSE!!” Indeed.

My apologies, RW. I am shocked, to tell the truth.

For the record, this from that Stk President in Idaho:

QUOTE from FB,
The protest consisted of private citizens some of whom happen to be members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and members from other Christian churches.
Because of my role as the priesthood advisor for Communications and Media Relations in the Pocatello Area, my name was attached to the statement which came from church headquarters. Therefore, the Church made the statement for clarification through me, the local representative of the Church.
And yes, I agreed to have my name attached to the statement and to represent the church in this area and concerning this matter.
Once the article was updated, there were some adjustments made to the original article, including adding the Church’s official statement.
Therefore, it was an official statement from the Church and not just “opinion” of a local stake president.
UNQUOTE

Part of me wonders if he is lying to cover his own rear.

Who told him? Who is he protecting?

[Reluctant Watchman]

NONSENSE! "Church headquarters told this SP exactly what to say. This SP never wrote those words." No way you can prove that with the information we have available... Yes, you could ask this SP... go ahead. I suspect he's getting a lot of messages these days.

BroJones, the stake president made a post on his personal facebook page. You would have read that if you had taken the time to read this thread. This is a direct quote from his FB page:

“Because of my role as the priesthood advisor for Communications and Media Relations in the Pocatello Area, my name was attached to the statement which came from church headquarters. Therefore, the Church made the statement for clarification through me, the local representative of the Church.”

Here’s his FB profile: https://www.facebook.com/cameron.brower.9

Scroll down to the post that begins with “To be Christlike..”

Then scroll down in the comments and see the one that he wrote. The quote I noted above is right there in black and white. “NONSENSE!!” Indeed.

My apologies, RW. I am shocked, to tell the truth.

For the record, this from that Stk President in Idaho:

QUOTE from FB,
The protest consisted of private citizens some of whom happen to be members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and members from other Christian churches.
Because of my role as the priesthood advisor for Communications and Media Relations in the Pocatello Area, my name was attached to the statement which came from church headquarters. Therefore, the Church made the statement for clarification through me, the local representative of the Church.
And yes, I agreed to have my name attached to the statement and to represent the church in this area and concerning this matter.
Once the article was updated, there were some adjustments made to the original article, including adding the Church’s official statement.
Therefore, it was an official statement from the Church and not just “opinion” of a local stake president.
UNQUOTE

Does this make the situation any better?

[pho·to·syn·the·sis]

my name was attached to the statement which came from church headquarters. Therefore, the Church made the statement for clarification through me

This affords someone "plausible deniability". The Church can say the statement didn't come from them; it was the personal view of the Stake President. Or like in the FB post, vice versa.

[Godislove]

Does anyone have any contact with church hq that they could verify?

[Badgerone45]

my name was attached to the statement which came from church headquarters. Therefore, the Church made the statement for clarification through me

This affords someone "plausible deniability". The Church can say the statement didn't come from them; it was the personal view of the Stake President. Or like in the FB post, vice versa.

Wow! You leave for a few days and come back to all kinds of new info and assumptions!
You all obviously aren’t familiar with how the church works. He can’t make an official statement for the church as a local Stake President. The church would’ve pulled that so fast. That’s why he had to make a statement in the first place, because someone in attendance was claiming the protest was a church sanctioned event. You all seem pretty smart, but I have had to say the same thing over and over, so I’m starting to wonder if I’m being punked or exactly who is on the other end of the screen.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Does anyone have any contact with church hq that they could verify?

No, but I have a shell company if you want some info on that. The returns are pretty good. We just have to keep it hush-hush. Maybe use a different name, no social media presence, and you most certainly can't tell the other members who donated... you know, the typical stuff.

[Reluctant Watchman]

That’s why he had to make a statement in the first place, because someone in attendance was claiming the protest was a church sanctioned event.

I may be mistaken here, but this statement was never made. A person said that members of various faiths were in attendance, including those of the LDS persuasion. There's a big difference.