Drag Queen Story hour protected by the Church

[helloitsme]

Wolfwoman, your post made me finally decide to join LDSFF. I don't post, just read, but I finally decided to do it. I've been hanging around for years. I agree completely, and it's where I've been for a while. When I checked the thread again (I've been watching this one all night), and saw Dave62's post, I finally went and did it. Thanks! (I hope)

Out of respect to the fact that this is indeed an LDS freedom forum (and one from which I have been able to gain a tremendous amount of processing of questions about all kinds of things bantered back and forth--thanks to all), I will try to respectfully add to what Dave62 is saying.

I have been thinking a lot lately about this idea: that there are many faithful LDS people who are deeply committed to Jesus Christ, and all of the truly Christian things we have all found over the years, but that now find ourselves wondering what has happened to the Church that bears His name. We are experiencing cognitive dissonance precisely because we cannot do this any longer. For me (not that it's important), it's already been a few years. People, Wolfwoman is right. And Dave62, I'm not sure about the B of M reference, but I can tell you all that there <is> something to Eastern Orthodoxy that I believe truly dedicated disciples of Christ (like I know many, many LDS to be), are now starting to realize. I'm in the process myself of trying to study Orthodoxy from every which way, and I know there are issues within it (primarily ecumenism--a word I had never seen before about six months ago), but at some level, I'm beginning to think that early Christianity (and what followed) is something that every Christian has to deal with--one way or another. There's just too much history to ignore it.

I am specifically interested in the Russian Orthodox Church, for a lot of reasons, but there are some things in its history that leave me unsettled. I am also looking at the very early Christian Church Fathers (first milennium--which is obviously not specific to the Russian church) and trying to at least establish a starting point (787, after the 7th Council). Anyway, I digress. All I am saying is that I believe the true disciples of Christ will find his church, and hopefully, along the way, each other. I do not know what I will finally conclude about Orthodoxy, but there is something to be looked at, of that I am certain.

One starting point is the Great Apostasy. The entire LDS narrative is based on the early church sliding off into the ditch, sometime around about 100 AD. Talmage says as much in the preface to his own book. What if when Jesus tells us that the gates of Hell shall not prevail (against the church), He really meant it? Where is that church? Did apostolic succession survive to the present day? Have we gotten our theology, and especially our Christology wrong? When you start to understand what went into what became the early apostolic church I think it compels one to at least try to understand it, and possibly even accept it. I don't know. But, I believe that it's quite possible that the Great Apostasy may not be what we were all told. If so, that changes everything.

As for Wolfwoman's lines, yes, they have been crossed. What more proof do we need? It's tremendously sad, and at the same time... really angers me (I had to edit myself there). Show me a church, show me a leader, show me a people who will stand unequivocally against the subject of this post. The judgment of God cannot come soon enough.

I never thought in a million years that a Stake President--in freaking Idaho--would be concerning himself more with the feelings of people who court demons--literally--than those of children. But he's just doing his job, with professor Milgram standing by, and this--this is the church.

So what now? Well, there's this, from the loudest rock band on the planet...

"And we get on our knees and pray... We don't get fooled again!!"

Long live rock.

I’m curious. I get the sense that you are seeking “religion”, but I do have to ask, does that only come through an organization? IMO God doesn’t care if you are one or many, but that you live true to righteous princples built upon the doctrine of Christ.

I am seeking the correct relationship with God the Father and His Son, and the Holy Spirit. The religion that I have come from cannot describe that relationship properly because I believe it is fundamentally false. Note, I am respecting the site's name so I am not trying to convince anyone of that--it's just my conclusion after living it for most of my life. Leaving Mormonism (I will always use that name) was a very difficult and long process. I knew I was some kind of Christian but had really no idea beyond that. For about 5 years I did nothing. My interest in Orthodoxy came from multiple sources, and, suffice it say, once I started looking at it I felt I had to make a decision about it. That's where I am now, as mentioned above.

I have thought, like you mention, that finding the right way to live and worship could be very individual, and it is my nature to be drawn to that approach. However, the five "Solas" (and for example, the most common, "Sola Scriptura"), I believe, fall apart as a viable presupposition for Christian theology. The canon of scripture cannot be the only source of one's faith outside of a church, because it literally came from the church of the first milennium. Paul talks about both oral and written tradition. The Bible is the written part of that duo. So, in my view, the basic Protestant notion of faith by scripture alone falls flat (including churches by name as well as individual Evangelicals). And in all due respect to Roman Catholics, their church has too many problems to even list.

I suspect your mentioning of "religion" in quotes is a reference to the Temple. Out of respect for those here I will not disparage that ceremony, but I will say that is precisely the thing that finally "broke my shelf" (to use a worn-out idiom). I knew the whole thing never made sense. It wasn't until I finally admitted that to myself that I was able to move forward at all. But I sometimes wonder (as I suspect you are as well by your question), about organizations in general because it seems they are all corrupt, and that, as Roger Daltrey growls out the last line of the above-mentioned Who anthem, I don't want to make the wrong choice again. I might be the sensitive type, but I get super angry at people and organizations who lie to me, whether on purpose or by omission.

When Jesus said that we need to eat of his body and blood I believe he meant it. That is something that has to come from a church with priesthood--on that point clearly Mormons would certainly agree. I will say that as I am studying the idea of Eucharist more, it is clear that the Orthodox take it really seriously. For them it is literal and transformative. It's my view that the Mormon sacrament is symbolic and contractual. These are two very different ways to understand what Christ offered to us. So, that is one reason I believe that I need something more than living by "righteous principles." Thanks for your question. I think I write too much!

I kind of get where you are going.. sort of.

I believe we are capable of learning truth from anywhere. No one group has a monopoly on truth. But, I do think some religious groups have more than others.

As far as scripture goes, what I gather, is that its purpose is to facilitate our ability to connect with heaven. They are not an “end all be all” work. They are not intended to be a dead work that stand alone independent. They are guide posts that should teach us how to connect with heaven, to pierce the veil.

As far as the temple, it breaks my heart to see what the LDS church has done with it. Beyond almost any doctrine or principle, this one hurts the most because of what I’ve learned it was intended to be. It has become a facade, a shell, of what it should be. It has become a place of dead works. It is not a place of learning. It is not a “house of the Lord.”

The one record that helped me filter through the separate many false and true principles of the restoration was the Nemenhah Record. I can’t stress that enough. The endowment became something completely new to me there and it completely changed my perspective as to how I perceive truth.

As far as the sacrament, I’ve come to find that it is a beautiful outward ordinance that reminds us of an inward commitment to follow Jesus. But it goes far beyond that. I’ve come to learn that the sacrament is a constant reminder of the New and Everlasting Covenant. That covenant being when Elohim joined with the Holy Ghost and Christ accepted the role as Savior. Essentially it was not just the formation of the Godhead, but in the defining of their individual and collective roles. Elohim are our spirit parents and began creation, Christ descended below all to atone, and the Holy Ghost seals or ratifies all truth and binds that to our spirits. All three are represented in the sacramental prayers.

Oh, and I’d suggest that you ask the Lord when and where you can partake of those sacramental symbols and if you need organized religion to do that.

Anyhoo… I do wish you well going forward.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I feel like I've gotten too far away from the topic of this thread (maybe there's a different part of the site for more of a thelolgical ping-pong game, not sure). All I can say is that I'm learning a lot about how Mormonism fits into religion in general--something that as a Mormon (I know, super evil word now--I'll bet those billboards have all spontaneously combusted deep the landfill somewhere, opening up a portal directly to Hell), something as a Mormon I never considered even remotely important. "We have the truth, everyone else is stupid, and maybe the Spirit will lead them to it when they're ready." I think my view has changed.

[JandD6572]

This is incredible.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made that statement. It was official. (Or I should say the official spokesperson for the church made that statement.)

You guys. There are lines that we all have (I’m assuming), that if crossed, we leave the church.

We are there. The church is defending drag queen story hour in public libraries for young children.

What?!

I have known there were problems in the church for years now. I have stayed an active member for the sake of my husband and my family. Plus I knew other churches have their issues too. So why leave one church to go join another imperfect church?

But damn. It sounds like, at this point, that Baptist church or whatever was in the article would be a better fit (I don’t reside in Idaho though). If they’re not part of agenda 2030 too.

Lines are being crossed now. How can we in good conscience stay in?

I joined a baptist church after leaving the Mormon cooperation. I have never been so comfortable, and at peace in all my years of attending this so-called Mormonism, as I am now with the baptist.

[Reluctant Watchman]

This is incredible.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made that statement. It was official. (Or I should say the official spokesperson for the church made that statement.)

You guys. There are lines that we all have (I’m assuming), that if crossed, we leave the church.

We are there. The church is defending drag queen story hour in public libraries for young children.

What?!

I have known there were problems in the church for years now. I have stayed an active member for the sake of my husband and my family. Plus I knew other churches have their issues too. So why leave one church to go join another imperfect church?

But damn. It sounds like, at this point, that Baptist church or whatever was in the article would be a better fit (I don’t reside in Idaho though). If they’re not part of agenda 2030 too.

Lines are being crossed now. How can we in good conscience stay in?

I joined a baptist church after leaving the Mormon cooperation. I have never been so comfortable, and at peace in all my years of attending this so-called Mormonism, as I am now with the baptist.

I’m curious, was their anything from the Restoration that you took away from the Mormon faith as restored by Joseph? The trinitarian view of the godhead is something that would make me feel uncomfortable in any other church.

[pho·to·syn·the·sis]

You are really telling me you believe the church thinks this is acceptable?

Then why make a public statement, condemning individuals who peacefully prevented such behavior and activity?

[spiritMan]

This is incredible.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made that statement. It was official. (Or I should say the official spokesperson for the church made that statement.)

You guys. There are lines that we all have (I’m assuming), that if crossed, we leave the church.

We are there. The church is defending drag queen story hour in public libraries for young children.

What?!

I have known there were problems in the church for years now. I have stayed an active member for the sake of my husband and my family. Plus I knew other churches have their issues too. So why leave one church to go join another imperfect church?

But damn. It sounds like, at this point, that Baptist church or whatever was in the article would be a better fit (I don’t reside in Idaho though). If they’re not part of agenda 2030 too.

Lines are being crossed now. How can we in good conscience stay in?

I joined a baptist church after leaving the Mormon cooperation. I have never been so comfortable, and at peace in all my years of attending this so-called Mormonism, as I am now with the baptist.

I’m curious, was their anything from the Restoration that you took away from the Mormon faith as restored by Joseph? The trinitarian view of the godhead is something that would make me feel uncomfortable in any other church.

I think the video below starts to give a good explanation of things, especially from 4 min. to 13 min. I can really, really understand how to most other Christian stating that "Christ is our elder brother" is just a completely insulting statement. The ancient Christians thought very, very deeply about these issues.

There are ways LDS get around it . . .but it's not exactly made very explicit or clear and I'm not quite convinced that it truly holds up. It's on a better footing I think than Arias, but only slightly better.

[spiritMan]

This is incredible.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made that statement. It was official. (Or I should say the official spokesperson for the church made that statement.)

You guys. There are lines that we all have (I’m assuming), that if crossed, we leave the church.

We are there. The church is defending drag queen story hour in public libraries for young children.

What?!

I have known there were problems in the church for years now. I have stayed an active member for the sake of my husband and my family. Plus I knew other churches have their issues too. So why leave one church to go join another imperfect church?

But damn. It sounds like, at this point, that Baptist church or whatever was in the article would be a better fit (I don’t reside in Idaho though). If they’re not part of agenda 2030 too.

Lines are being crossed now. How can we in good conscience stay in?

I joined a baptist church after leaving the Mormon cooperation. I have never been so comfortable, and at peace in all my years of attending this so-called Mormonism, as I am now with the baptist.

I’m curious, was their anything from the Restoration that you took away from the Mormon faith as restored by Joseph? The trinitarian view of the godhead is something that would make me feel uncomfortable in any other church.

As a slight aside; most Mormons have been taught that most other Christians view of the Trinity is actually what is called Modalism/Sabellianism; i.e. God transforms into Christ on the earth, God transforms into the Holy Ghost, God transforms into the Father; i.e. they are all different forms of the same being with different modes.

That's actually not what most Christians believe at all and almost all Christian denominations condemn modalism as a heresy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism
"Condemned as heresy, Modalism is the belief that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three different modes of God, as opposed to a Trinitarian view of three distinct persons within the Godhead.["

The bigger differences really in up being the relationship between Father and Son . . .which Mormons aren't quite Arian but not quite Nicene. Really my take is LDS wants to be both Arian and Nicene. In some aspects it's Arian in some aspects it's Nicene. In it's deep, deep root it wants to be Arian (which is that there was a time when the Father was without the Son; i.e. Christ was the 1st spirit child of God) but not Arian (we all came from intelligences).

And that the Father has a physical body of flesh and bones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed

[Reluctant Watchman]

This is incredible.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made that statement. It was official. (Or I should say the official spokesperson for the church made that statement.)

You guys. There are lines that we all have (I’m assuming), that if crossed, we leave the church.

We are there. The church is defending drag queen story hour in public libraries for young children.

What?!

I have known there were problems in the church for years now. I have stayed an active member for the sake of my husband and my family. Plus I knew other churches have their issues too. So why leave one church to go join another imperfect church?

But damn. It sounds like, at this point, that Baptist church or whatever was in the article would be a better fit (I don’t reside in Idaho though). If they’re not part of agenda 2030 too.

Lines are being crossed now. How can we in good conscience stay in?

I joined a baptist church after leaving the Mormon cooperation. I have never been so comfortable, and at peace in all my years of attending this so-called Mormonism, as I am now with the baptist.

I’m curious, was their anything from the Restoration that you took away from the Mormon faith as restored by Joseph? The trinitarian view of the godhead is something that would make me feel uncomfortable in any other church.

As a slight aside; most Mormons have been taught that most other Christians view of the Trinity is actually what is called Modalism/Sabellianism; i.e. God transforms into Christ on the earth, God transforms into the Holy Ghost, God transforms into the Father; i.e. they are all different forms of the same being with different modes.

That's actually not what most Christians believe at all and almost all Christian denominations condemn modalism as a heresy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism
"Condemned as heresy, Modalism is the belief that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three different modes of God, as opposed to a Trinitarian view of three distinct persons within the Godhead.["

God is a man. Jesus is a man. The Holy Ghost is Spirit. They constitute the Godhead.

Have a nice day.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Here’s some counsel I believe we can learn a great deal from w/ regards to the subject of the OP:

59) And if men and women bind themselves together in a holy state of matrimony, let them be faithful one to another. And if they be found in adultery, let them be cast out, and the children shall remain with the faithful party. And if both mother and father be unfaithful, let the children be adopted unto the faithful. For, it is not good for children to be raised up among adulterers.

60) Men and women shall not bind themselves for convenience. For, this union is one of fornication and lust and shall undermine the community. Let men and women bind themselves with a durable covenant.

61) And any man who shall make fornication with a child, but with the consent of the child, shall be taken outside the wall and stoned to death. And the child shall be taken aside and counseled diligently.

62) And any woman who shall make fornication with a child, but with the consent of the child, shall be taken outside the wall and stoned to death. And the child shall be taken aside and counseled diligently.

63) And when children do fornicate with a man or a woman, or with another child, they shall be taken aside and counseled diligently, that they might understand the gravity of their misconduct. But they are not punished, for they are children.

64) However, let also their parents be taken aside and judged. For they have failed in their duty to teach their children. Wherefore, it might needs be that the children ought to be raised by another. But let this be decided by the Council, for there are mitigating circumstances in such cases.

[Reluctant Watchman]

This is also extremely applicable. It is not hateful, but righteous judgment on the part of their community:

67) Now, there has not been any case of a man violating a man (rape), but such things might occur. When such is the case, and proofs are provided, the malefactor is taken outside the wall and stoned to death.

68) And behold, there have been some few cases of unnatural lust and of the fornication that comes of it (gay and lesbian), but this has been mainly among sojourners. Nevertheless, when men make fornication with one another, they are not cast out from among the communities of the Nemenhah but are counseled not to marry.

69) Likewise, when women make fornication with women, they are not cast out from among the communities, but they are counseled not to marry. And, no stewardship can be given them, but they are left to work for another to earn their bread. And this is done in order to encourage them to leave the community of their own accord. For, can a community be built or stand upon fornication?

70) Such men and women ought to be taken aside and counseled diligently to repent. For, their acting out might lead to greater injury that might take away their lives. And such men and women are not numbered in the counting of the families of the community.

71) But let no violence come to them, for they may be able to repent. And, if they repent, they may yet be numbered among the families.

This is what the LDS church needs to do. Teach doctrine, encourage them to repent.

[helloitsme]

Reluctant, where is all of this from anyway?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Reluctant, where is all of this from anyway?

From the Nemenhah Records. I wrote a short intro to the record here: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/nemenhah-records

There is also a thread on the forum where I've been posting excerpts: viewtopic.php?t=69075

[helloitsme]

Oh OK, I remember you mentioned that in one of my earlier posts--I didn't realize this was it, thanks.

[spiritMan]

Someone's comment about Primary at Church. Looks like someone already beat us to it. We should join the bandwagon.

https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/lifes ... n-saturday

[JandD6572]

This is incredible.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made that statement. It was official. (Or I should say the official spokesperson for the church made that statement.)

You guys. There are lines that we all have (I’m assuming), that if crossed, we leave the church.

We are there. The church is defending drag queen story hour in public libraries for young children.

What?!

I have known there were problems in the church for years now. I have stayed an active member for the sake of my husband and my family. Plus I knew other churches have their issues too. So why leave one church to go join another imperfect church?

But damn. It sounds like, at this point, that Baptist church or whatever was in the article would be a better fit (I don’t reside in Idaho though). If they’re not part of agenda 2030 too.

Lines are being crossed now. How can we in good conscience stay in?

I joined a baptist church after leaving the Mormon cooperation. I have never been so comfortable, and at peace in all my years of attending this so-called Mormonism, as I am now with the baptist.

I’m curious, was their anything from the Restoration that you took away from the Mormon faith as restored by Joseph? The trinitarian view of the godhead is something that would make me feel uncomfortable in any other church.

nope, not to much of anything, most of you all on this forum can't even agree with the things joseph smith said and did. I can't accept something when I never did, and don't now, believe in the things the Mormon church teaches. I'm taking the bible for what it says, in John 3:16, at least there, I can build my foundation on the fact that I believe and accept Jesus Christ. the rest I'm not concerning myself with. no more stress. I accept Jesus Christ, whether there 3 separate beings in the God head or one, will be clarified when I die I suppose. the most important concept for me is to focus on and accept is Jesus Christ.

[Reluctant Watchman]

nope, not to much of anything, most of you all on this forum can't even agree with the things joseph smith said and did. I can't accept something when I never did, and don't now, believe in the things the Mormon church teaches. I'm taking the bible for what it says, in John 3:16, at least there, I can build my foundation on the fact that I believe and accept Jesus Christ. the rest I'm not concerning myself with. no more stress. I accept Jesus Christ, whether there 3 separate beings in the God head or one, will be clarified when I die I suppose. the most important concept for me is to focus on and accept is Jesus Christ.

I think we (the forum) can almost all universally agree on the BoM. There are a few exceptions, but the majority of us know that it wasn't written by Joseph or anyone of his era. The BoM adds much-needed clarity to the Bible. Other records add even more clarity. The more truth we have, the closer we become like our parents.

God does send messengers to teach us. Do we need them? It depends on what you choose to get out of life.

[JandD6572]

nope, not to much of anything, most of you all on this forum can't even agree with the things joseph smith said and did. I can't accept something when I never did, and don't now, believe in the things the Mormon church teaches. I'm taking the bible for what it says, in John 3:16, at least there, I can build my foundation on the fact that I believe and accept Jesus Christ. the rest I'm not concerning myself with. no more stress. I accept Jesus Christ, whether there 3 separate beings in the God head or one, will be clarified when I die I suppose. the most important concept for me is to focus on and accept is Jesus Christ.

I think we (the forum) can almost all universally agree on the BoM. There are a few exceptions, but the majority of us know that it wasn't written by Joseph or anyone of his era. The BoM adds much-needed clarity to the Bible. Other records add even more clarity. The more truth we have, the closer we become like our parents.

God does send messengers to teach us. Do we need them? It depends on what you choose to get out of life.

The book of Mormon is about the only thing I trust from the Mormon church, but even that, they couldn't agree on when first published, one of the first things they did was go against the very words of the book. How can I have faith and trust a church that can't even adhere to their own scripture, or have scripture that contradicts itself, or changes like the wind.

[Reluctant Watchman]

The book of Mormon is about the only thing I trust from the Mormon church, but even that, they couldn't agree on when first published, one of the first things they did was go against the very words of the book. How can I have faith and trust a church that can't even adhere to their own scripture, or have scripture that contradicts itself, or changes like the wind.

The Lord condemned them for not heeding the words of the BoM (D&C 84). That doesn't mean we throw out the book because a church became corrupt. I don't have faith in the church either. It's not about "religion", it's about learning truth that helps us ascend. Take what you believe to be true, verify all things through the Spirit, and by all means, that doesn't mean you have to be part of a church.

[BroJones]

Great article - thanks for posting it!

https://www.idahostatejournal.com/freea ... 8bf88.html

Interesting that we just completed - last Saturday - a multi-stake discussion on Religious Freedom, including the First Amendment, in our area. (NW Missouri)
I stand with those who peacefully assembled and protested, in the public library.

[spiritMan]

Great article - thanks for posting it!

https://www.idahostatejournal.com/freea ... 8bf88.html

Interesting that we just completed - last Saturday - a multi-stake discussion on Religious Freedom, including the First Amendment, in our area. (NW Missouri)
I stand with those who peacefully assembled and protested, in the public library.

Church has got to shore up it's remaining traditional members and tell them that their official support for the "Dis"respect for Marriage act was really, truly, honestly God's will.

[Free_Man]

Can we get back to the purpose of this thread? Badger, please explain your comment.

My brother was asked by church HQ to make a statement that this wasn’t sanctioned by the church.

Point 1 The church wants to make a comment condemning the members peacefully protesting the DQSH. (This is ludicrous)
Point 2 The church doesn't want to make the comment directly from SLC HQ. (Why not?)
Point 3 The church then looks for a segregate they can use to make the comment they want to make--the puppet. You have said as much that he was just the pass through vehicle for the message from the church. You have said that he did not believe in the statement nor create the statement himself.
Point 4 LDS HQ is shielded from being directly questioned on its stance to support the LGBQi+ agenda. My guess is that HQ feels any heat, it can fall back on a stake president speaking on his own initiative.

How did your brother get the message from SLC? Ask you brother who contacted him? Was he told not to divulge his contact with SLC? (Why?) SLC initiated the statement being released. If this is what the church believes and stands for, why hide?

Some thoughts to ponder.

Those supporting this agenda have already declared, "We are coming for your children." They can't procreate, so they must indoctrinate (recruit--and the easiest low lying fruit are the children).

I don't know if Badger is aware of what is going on in Deseret Book. Here are a few samples. The Mormon church is embracing the LGBTQi+ movement.

Building Zion: Faithful LGBTQ Allyship
https://seek.deseretbook.com/p/building ... n-schilaty

Listen, Learn, and Love Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints
https://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn- ... day-saints

Deseret Book Now Supports The Pride Flag and Same Sex Partners
https://www.cwicmedia.com/blog/deseret- ... x-partners

I for one am grateful for those that went and peacefully protested at the library. I would hope that I would have courage to stand for something at a time of need.

Badger, you have expressed your desire and efforts to protect your children and grandchildren from immorality and such. If you were asked to do a sit in at the library to protect children from DQSH, would you do it--peacefully?

Please ask your brother who made contact with him to make his statement. Put that baby to bed.

[Godislove]

I’m not here to shame anyone. I was just telling you my experience. I had never before personally met any of these individuals and therefore had unfairly judged them. I’m not justifying anyone with a perverted agenda.

Is it really 'unfair' to judge that their actions are not at all appropriate for children? Whether or not you've actually met them?
If their motives were pure they would not be showing up in their costumes to meet with innocent children. Have you heard of righteous judgement? Our YW had a lesson on it yesterday.
The whole 'we shouldn't judge' or 'unfairly judge' is sugar coated evil. We never make final judgments but we are expected to make righteous judgements.

[Trucker]

Can we get back to the purpose of this thread? Badger, please explain your comment.

My brother was asked by church HQ to make a statement that this wasn’t sanctioned by the church.

Point 1 The church wants to make a comment condemning the members peacefully protesting the DQSH. (This is ludicrous)
Point 2 The church doesn't want to make the comment directly from SLC HQ. (Why not?)
Point 3 The church then looks for a segregate they can use to make the comment they want to make--the puppet. You have said as much that he was just the pass through vehicle for the message from the church. You have said that he did not believe in the statement nor create the statement himself.
Point 4 LDS HQ is shielded from being directly questioned on its stance to support the LGBQi+ agenda. My guess is that HQ feels any heat, it can fall back on a stake president speaking on his own initiative.

How did your brother get the message from SLC? Ask you brother who contacted him? Was he told not to divulge his contact with SLC? (Why?) SLC initiated the statement being released. If this is what the church believes and stands for, why hide?

Some thoughts to ponder.

Those supporting this agenda have already declared, "We are coming for your children." They can't procreate, so they must indoctrinate (recruit--and the easiest low lying fruit are the children).

I don't know if Badger is aware of what is going on in Deseret Book. Here are a few samples. The Mormon church is embracing the LGBTQi+ movement.

Building Zion: Faithful LGBTQ Allyship
https://seek.deseretbook.com/p/building ... n-schilaty

Listen, Learn, and Love Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints
https://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn- ... day-saints

Deseret Book Now Supports The Pride Flag and Same Sex Partners
https://www.cwicmedia.com/blog/deseret- ... x-partners

I for one am grateful for those that went and peacefully protested at the library. I would hope that I would have courage to stand for something at a time of need.

Badger, you have expressed your desire and efforts to protect your children and grandchildren from immorality and such. If you were asked to do a sit in at the library to protect children from DQSH, would you do it--peacefully?

Please ask your brother who made contact with him to make his statement. Put that baby to bed.

... ♪ With the help of the chuuuuurch! ♪

Reminder that this is the same SF Gay's Mens Choir that has been invited to sing twice at the Washington DC visitors center.

The lyrics, for the record:

You think we're sinful
You fight against our rights
You say we all lead live you can't respect
But you're just frightened
You think that we'll corrupt your kids
If our agenda goes unchecked
Funny, just this once, you're correct

We'll convert your children
Happens bit by bit
Quietly and subtlely
And you will barely notice it
You can keep them from disco
Warn about San Francisco
Make 'em wear pleated pants
We don't care...
We'll convert your children...
We'll make them tolerant and fair

Just like you worriеd
They'll change their group of friеnds
You won't approve of where they go at night
(to protests)
Oh, and you'll be disgusted
(so gross)
When they start finding things online
That you've kept far from their sight
(like information...)
Guess what?
You'll still be alright!

We'll convert your children
Reaching one and all
There's really no escaping it
'cause even grandma likes Rupaul
And the world's getting kinder
Gen Z's gayer than Grindr
Learn to love
Learn to vogue
Face your fate!
We'll convert your children
Someone's gotta teach them not to hate

We're coming for them
We're coming for your children
We're coming for them
We're coming for them
We're coming for your children
For your children

[spiritMan]

Can we get back to the purpose of this thread? Badger, please explain your comment.

My brother was asked by church HQ to make a statement that this wasn’t sanctioned by the church.

Point 1 The church wants to make a comment condemning the members peacefully protesting the DQSH. (This is ludicrous)
Point 2 The church doesn't want to make the comment directly from SLC HQ. (Why not?)
Point 3 The church then looks for a segregate they can use to make the comment they want to make--the puppet. You have said as much that he was just the pass through vehicle for the message from the church. You have said that he did not believe in the statement nor create the statement himself.
Point 4 LDS HQ is shielded from being directly questioned on its stance to support the LGBQi+ agenda. My guess is that HQ feels any heat, it can fall back on a stake president speaking on his own initiative.

How did your brother get the message from SLC? Ask you brother who contacted him? Was he told not to divulge his contact with SLC? (Why?) SLC initiated the statement being released. If this is what the church believes and stands for, why hide?

Some thoughts to ponder.

Those supporting this agenda have already declared, "We are coming for your children." They can't procreate, so they must indoctrinate (recruit--and the easiest low lying fruit are the children).

I don't know if Badger is aware of what is going on in Deseret Book. Here are a few samples. The Mormon church is embracing the LGBTQi+ movement.

Building Zion: Faithful LGBTQ Allyship
https://seek.deseretbook.com/p/building ... n-schilaty

Listen, Learn, and Love Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints
https://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn- ... day-saints

Deseret Book Now Supports The Pride Flag and Same Sex Partners
https://www.cwicmedia.com/blog/deseret- ... x-partners

I for one am grateful for those that went and peacefully protested at the library. I would hope that I would have courage to stand for something at a time of need.

Badger, you have expressed your desire and efforts to protect your children and grandchildren from immorality and such. If you were asked to do a sit in at the library to protect children from DQSH, would you do it--peacefully?

Please ask your brother who made contact with him to make his statement. Put that baby to bed.

... ♪ With the help of the chuuuuurch! ♪

Reminder that this is the same SF Gay's Mens Choir that has been invited to sing twice at the Washington DC visitors center.

That's the DC Gay Men's Choir . . .but effectively the same thing.

[Trucker]

Can we get back to the purpose of this thread? Badger, please explain your comment.

My brother was asked by church HQ to make a statement that this wasn’t sanctioned by the church.

Point 1 The church wants to make a comment condemning the members peacefully protesting the DQSH. (This is ludicrous)
Point 2 The church doesn't want to make the comment directly from SLC HQ. (Why not?)
Point 3 The church then looks for a segregate they can use to make the comment they want to make--the puppet. You have said as much that he was just the pass through vehicle for the message from the church. You have said that he did not believe in the statement nor create the statement himself.
Point 4 LDS HQ is shielded from being directly questioned on its stance to support the LGBQi+ agenda. My guess is that HQ feels any heat, it can fall back on a stake president speaking on his own initiative.

How did your brother get the message from SLC? Ask you brother who contacted him? Was he told not to divulge his contact with SLC? (Why?) SLC initiated the statement being released. If this is what the church believes and stands for, why hide?

Some thoughts to ponder.

Those supporting this agenda have already declared, "We are coming for your children." They can't procreate, so they must indoctrinate (recruit--and the easiest low lying fruit are the children).

I don't know if Badger is aware of what is going on in Deseret Book. Here are a few samples. The Mormon church is embracing the LGBTQi+ movement.

Building Zion: Faithful LGBTQ Allyship
https://seek.deseretbook.com/p/building ... n-schilaty

Listen, Learn, and Love Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints
https://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn- ... day-saints

Deseret Book Now Supports The Pride Flag and Same Sex Partners
https://www.cwicmedia.com/blog/deseret- ... x-partners

I for one am grateful for those that went and peacefully protested at the library. I would hope that I would have courage to stand for something at a time of need.

Badger, you have expressed your desire and efforts to protect your children and grandchildren from immorality and such. If you were asked to do a sit in at the library to protect children from DQSH, would you do it--peacefully?

Please ask your brother who made contact with him to make his statement. Put that baby to bed.

... ♪ With the help of the chuuuuurch! ♪

Reminder that this is the same SF Gay's Mens Choir that has been invited to sing twice at the Washington DC visitors center.

That's the DC Gay Men's Choir . . .but effectively the same thing.

I stand corrected. I'm getting confused with all the gay men's choirs the church likes to work with.

Motab did sing with the SF gay men's choir, but the DC gay men's choir is the one that sang in DC visitor's center, twice.

https://utahstories.com/2023/01/gay-men ... ds-temple/

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/chu ... s?lang=eng

https://www.thechurchnews.com/2018/6/26 ... ens-chorus

[Obeone]

God has to allow the possibility of sin for without that we have no agency and cannot grow, but according to His word He does not love it. Unless we repent we'll find out how much God hates sin.

Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! (Matthew 18:7)

There is a big difference between hate and not loving or agreeing with something.

 Alma 26:34 
34 For behold, they would take up arms against their brethren; they would not suffer themselves to be slain. But behold how many of these have laid down their lives; and we know that they have gone to their God, because of their love and of their hatred to sin.

 Alma 37:32 
32 And now, my son, remember the words which I have spoken unto you; trust not those secret plans unto this people, but teach them an everlasting hatred against sin and iniquity.

You need to read the Book of Mormon more carefully.

And here is from Jesus Himself:

 Rev. 2:6 
6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.