The Church Playing shell games with your tithing

[Ciams]

They are whoring after Babylon. Seems pretty evil to me. Heaven forbid we try to understand the doctrine of Christ.

Surely, the Lord could never command to "make unto yourselves friends with the mammon of unrighteousness" (D&C 82:22; Luke 16:9)
Certainly it would never mean to make yourselves alliances with organizations and people of the lesser evils of the world, and to use federal reserve notes to fund things, and to invest things wisely in the market. No. It can never mean that. I mean, the Lord expects the brethren to take all earnings from the corporation and to hide their talent. I mean, of course the guy that hid the talent was the wise steward, and was the one congratulated for burying his talent in his mattress.

Surely the fact that the Corporation has directed its holdings to be held in the market and the Lord has blessed those holdings to multiply according to the parable of talents must mean that they ought to be condemned and likened unto the pride of the world condemned by Moroni. How dare they invest the talents of the Church in the market and get returns on those talents. Heaven forbid that the Lord would ever have anyone participate in investments according to the parable of the talents.

Surely the Church ought to never have a rainy day fund when nobody can pay tithing. But everyone is bellyaching about tithing that they are required to pay, and would then find fault even if the Church decided to not require tithing as they do, and whine about how the church is not giving all of its holdings to the poor at once and bankrupting itself to be like the CoC/RLDS who will be lucky if they don't lose all of their real estate in a couple of years time.

How dare the brethren direct the tithing funds to be used according to directives in policy to fund costly temples like the one built by Solomon with the finest of materials according to scriptural precedent!!! I mean, because surely, all endowments ought to be done on ensign peak. I mean, all temples ought to be built like the one built by Nephi! Because surely Nephi had a large trade network all across Meso and North America, having hooked up with ALL native American civilizations when he first got there, to have access to all that finery. NOT. The Nephites maybe at the time were numbered in the hundreds, having a sword in one hand and a trowel in another, not unlike the people in their desperate circumstances in Nauvoo.

“It is not intended that in making friends of the ‘mammon of unrighteousness’ that the brethren were to partake with them in their sins; to receive them to their bosoms, intermarry with them and otherwise come down to their level. They were to so live that peace with their enemies might be assured. They were to treat them kindly, be friendly with them as far as correct and virtuous principles would permit, but never to swear with them or drink and carouse with them. If they could allay prejudice and show a willingness to trade with and show a kindly spirit, it might help to turn them away from their bitterness. Judgment was to be left with the Lord” (Church History and Modern Revelation, 2 vols. [1953], 1:323).




43 And now, I will show unto you a parable, that you may know my will concerning the aredemption of Zion.

44 A certain anobleman had a spot of land, very choice; and he said unto his servants: Go ye unto my bvineyard, even upon this very choice piece of land, and plant twelve olive trees;

45 And set awatchmen round about them, and build a tower, that one may overlook the land round about, to be a watchman upon the tower, that mine olive trees may not be broken down when the enemy shall come to spoil and take upon themselves the fruit of my vineyard.

46 Now, the servants of the nobleman went and did as their lord commanded them, and planted the olive trees, and built a hedge round about, and set watchmen, and began to build a tower.

47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower?

48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace?

49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.

50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very aslothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.

51 And the enemy came by night, and broke down the ahedge; and the servants of the nobleman arose and were affrighted, and fled; and the enemy destroyed their works, and broke down the olive trees.

52 Now, behold, the nobleman, the lord of the avineyard, called upon his servants, and said unto them, Why! what is the cause of this great evil?

53 Ought ye not to have done even as I commanded you, and—after ye had planted the vineyard, and built the hedge round about, and set watchmen upon the walls thereof—built the tower also, and set a awatchman upon the tower, and watched for my vineyard, and not have fallen asleep, lest the enemy should come upon you?

54 And behold, the watchman upon the tower would have seen the enemy while he was yet afar off; and then ye could have made ready and kept the enemy from breaking down the hedge thereof, and saved my vineyard from the hands of the destroyer.

55 And the lord of the vineyard said unto one of his aservants: Go and gather together the residue of my servants, and take ball the strength of mine house, which are my warriors, my young men, and they that are of middle age also among all my servants, who are the strength of mine house, save those only whom I have appointed to tarry;

56 And go ye straightway unto the land of my vineyard, and redeem my vineyard; for it is mine; I have bought it with money.

57 Therefore, get ye straightway unto my land; break down the awalls of mine enemies; throw down their tower, and scatter their watchmen.

58 And inasmuch as they gather together against you, aavenge me of mine enemies, that by and by I may come with the residue of mine house and possess the land.

59 And the servant said unto his lord: When shall these things be?

60 And he said unto his servant: When I will; go ye straightway, and do all things whatsoever I have commanded you;

61 And this shall be my seal and ablessing upon you—a faithful and bwise steward in the midst of mine house, a cruler in my kingdom.

62 And his servant went straightway, and did all things whatsoever his lord commanded him; and aafter many days all things were fulfilled.

It's bizarre you cite these verses while being at variance with the church. Literally you are the one who is distracting from the building of the tower. The church is building churches and temples and calling missionaries, and mission presidents and doing everything it can to grow the church. The members are commanded to take part in building up the vineyards and you're distracted arguing about money and where we should put the effort instead.

Watch towers are where prophets can see and warn of coming dangers. What do you think all the conferences worldwide etc are for? The church is warning the vineyard and trying to strengthen it regularly. You are arguing about money, not them.

[InfoWarrior82]

They are whoring after Babylon. Seems pretty evil to me. Heaven forbid we try to understand the doctrine of Christ.

Surely, the Lord could never command to "make unto yourselves friends with the mammon of unrighteousness" (D&C 82:22; Luke 16:9)
Certainly it would never mean to make yourselves alliances with organizations and people of the lesser evils of the world, and to use federal reserve notes to fund things, and to invest things wisely in the market. No. It can never mean that. I mean, the Lord expects the brethren to take all earnings from the corporation and to hide their talent. I mean, of course the guy that hid the talent was the wise steward, and was the one congratulated for burying his talent in his mattress.

Surely the fact that the Corporation has directed its holdings to be held in the market and the Lord has blessed those holdings to multiply according to the parable of talents must mean that they ought to be condemned and likened unto the pride of the world condemned by Moroni. How dare they invest the talents of the Church in the market and get returns on those talents. Heaven forbid that the Lord would ever have anyone participate in investments according to the parable of the talents.

Surely the Church ought to never have a rainy day fund when nobody can pay tithing. But everyone is bellyaching about tithing that they are required to pay, and would then find fault even if the Church decided to not require tithing as they do, and whine about how the church is not giving all of its holdings to the poor at once and bankrupting itself to be like the CoC/RLDS who will be lucky if they don't lose all of their real estate in a couple of years time.

How dare the brethren direct the tithing funds to be used according to directives in policy to fund costly temples like the one built by Solomon with the finest of materials according to scriptural precedent!!! I mean, because surely, all endowments ought to be done on ensign peak. I mean, all temples ought to be built like the one built by Nephi! Because surely Nephi had a large trade network all across Meso and North America, having hooked up with ALL native American civilizations when he first got there, to have access to all that finery. NOT. The Nephites maybe at the time were numbered in the hundreds, having a sword in one hand and a trowel in another, not unlike the people in their desperate circumstances in Nauvoo.

“It is not intended that in making friends of the ‘mammon of unrighteousness’ that the brethren were to partake with them in their sins; to receive them to their bosoms, intermarry with them and otherwise come down to their level. They were to so live that peace with their enemies might be assured. They were to treat them kindly, be friendly with them as far as correct and virtuous principles would permit, but never to swear with them or drink and carouse with them. If they could allay prejudice and show a willingness to trade with and show a kindly spirit, it might help to turn them away from their bitterness. Judgment was to be left with the Lord” (Church History and Modern Revelation, 2 vols. [1953], 1:323).




43 And now, I will show unto you a parable, that you may know my will concerning the aredemption of Zion.

44 A certain anobleman had a spot of land, very choice; and he said unto his servants: Go ye unto my bvineyard, even upon this very choice piece of land, and plant twelve olive trees;

45 And set awatchmen round about them, and build a tower, that one may overlook the land round about, to be a watchman upon the tower, that mine olive trees may not be broken down when the enemy shall come to spoil and take upon themselves the fruit of my vineyard.

46 Now, the servants of the nobleman went and did as their lord commanded them, and planted the olive trees, and built a hedge round about, and set watchmen, and began to build a tower.

47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower?

48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace?

49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.

50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very aslothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.

51 And the enemy came by night, and broke down the ahedge; and the servants of the nobleman arose and were affrighted, and fled; and the enemy destroyed their works, and broke down the olive trees.

52 Now, behold, the nobleman, the lord of the avineyard, called upon his servants, and said unto them, Why! what is the cause of this great evil?

53 Ought ye not to have done even as I commanded you, and—after ye had planted the vineyard, and built the hedge round about, and set watchmen upon the walls thereof—built the tower also, and set a awatchman upon the tower, and watched for my vineyard, and not have fallen asleep, lest the enemy should come upon you?

54 And behold, the watchman upon the tower would have seen the enemy while he was yet afar off; and then ye could have made ready and kept the enemy from breaking down the hedge thereof, and saved my vineyard from the hands of the destroyer.

55 And the lord of the vineyard said unto one of his aservants: Go and gather together the residue of my servants, and take ball the strength of mine house, which are my warriors, my young men, and they that are of middle age also among all my servants, who are the strength of mine house, save those only whom I have appointed to tarry;

56 And go ye straightway unto the land of my vineyard, and redeem my vineyard; for it is mine; I have bought it with money.

57 Therefore, get ye straightway unto my land; break down the awalls of mine enemies; throw down their tower, and scatter their watchmen.

58 And inasmuch as they gather together against you, aavenge me of mine enemies, that by and by I may come with the residue of mine house and possess the land.

59 And the servant said unto his lord: When shall these things be?

60 And he said unto his servant: When I will; go ye straightway, and do all things whatsoever I have commanded you;

61 And this shall be my seal and ablessing upon you—a faithful and bwise steward in the midst of mine house, a cruler in my kingdom.

62 And his servant went straightway, and did all things whatsoever his lord commanded him; and aafter many days all things were fulfilled.

It's bizarre you cite these verses while being at variance with the church. Literally you are the one who is distracting from the building of the tower. The church is building churches and temples and calling missionaries, and mission presidents and doing everything it can to grow the church. The members are commanded to take part in building up the vineyards and you're distracted arguing about money and where we should put the effort instead.

Watch towers are where prophets can see and warn of coming dangers. What do you think all the conferences worldwide etc are for? The church is warning the vineyard and trying to strengthen it regularly. You are arguing about money, not them.

It is you who does not understand what the Lord is saying in this parable/prophecy. Do you and I get to decide what happens with tithing funds? No. It is the church leaders. You are attempting to take the responsibility away from those that have been given direct commandments from the Lord to build infrastructure that watches for the enemy.

If you are arguing that these men can "see around corners", then they are failing, and that's not our fault. I have seen no fruits of prophets from them. I have seen corrupt fruit though.

[Ciams]

Surely, the Lord could never command to "make unto yourselves friends with the mammon of unrighteousness" (D&C 82:22; Luke 16:9)
Certainly it would never mean to make yourselves alliances with organizations and people of the lesser evils of the world, and to use federal reserve notes to fund things, and to invest things wisely in the market. No. It can never mean that. I mean, the Lord expects the brethren to take all earnings from the corporation and to hide their talent. I mean, of course the guy that hid the talent was the wise steward, and was the one congratulated for burying his talent in his mattress.

Surely the fact that the Corporation has directed its holdings to be held in the market and the Lord has blessed those holdings to multiply according to the parable of talents must mean that they ought to be condemned and likened unto the pride of the world condemned by Moroni. How dare they invest the talents of the Church in the market and get returns on those talents. Heaven forbid that the Lord would ever have anyone participate in investments according to the parable of the talents.

Surely the Church ought to never have a rainy day fund when nobody can pay tithing. But everyone is bellyaching about tithing that they are required to pay, and would then find fault even if the Church decided to not require tithing as they do, and whine about how the church is not giving all of its holdings to the poor at once and bankrupting itself to be like the CoC/RLDS who will be lucky if they don't lose all of their real estate in a couple of years time.

How dare the brethren direct the tithing funds to be used according to directives in policy to fund costly temples like the one built by Solomon with the finest of materials according to scriptural precedent!!! I mean, because surely, all endowments ought to be done on ensign peak. I mean, all temples ought to be built like the one built by Nephi! Because surely Nephi had a large trade network all across Meso and North America, having hooked up with ALL native American civilizations when he first got there, to have access to all that finery. NOT. The Nephites maybe at the time were numbered in the hundreds, having a sword in one hand and a trowel in another, not unlike the people in their desperate circumstances in Nauvoo.

“It is not intended that in making friends of the ‘mammon of unrighteousness’ that the brethren were to partake with them in their sins; to receive them to their bosoms, intermarry with them and otherwise come down to their level. They were to so live that peace with their enemies might be assured. They were to treat them kindly, be friendly with them as far as correct and virtuous principles would permit, but never to swear with them or drink and carouse with them. If they could allay prejudice and show a willingness to trade with and show a kindly spirit, it might help to turn them away from their bitterness. Judgment was to be left with the Lord” (Church History and Modern Revelation, 2 vols. [1953], 1:323).




43 And now, I will show unto you a parable, that you may know my will concerning the aredemption of Zion.

44 A certain anobleman had a spot of land, very choice; and he said unto his servants: Go ye unto my bvineyard, even upon this very choice piece of land, and plant twelve olive trees;

45 And set awatchmen round about them, and build a tower, that one may overlook the land round about, to be a watchman upon the tower, that mine olive trees may not be broken down when the enemy shall come to spoil and take upon themselves the fruit of my vineyard.

46 Now, the servants of the nobleman went and did as their lord commanded them, and planted the olive trees, and built a hedge round about, and set watchmen, and began to build a tower.

47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower?

48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace?

49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.

50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very aslothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.

51 And the enemy came by night, and broke down the ahedge; and the servants of the nobleman arose and were affrighted, and fled; and the enemy destroyed their works, and broke down the olive trees.

52 Now, behold, the nobleman, the lord of the avineyard, called upon his servants, and said unto them, Why! what is the cause of this great evil?

53 Ought ye not to have done even as I commanded you, and—after ye had planted the vineyard, and built the hedge round about, and set watchmen upon the walls thereof—built the tower also, and set a awatchman upon the tower, and watched for my vineyard, and not have fallen asleep, lest the enemy should come upon you?

54 And behold, the watchman upon the tower would have seen the enemy while he was yet afar off; and then ye could have made ready and kept the enemy from breaking down the hedge thereof, and saved my vineyard from the hands of the destroyer.

55 And the lord of the vineyard said unto one of his aservants: Go and gather together the residue of my servants, and take ball the strength of mine house, which are my warriors, my young men, and they that are of middle age also among all my servants, who are the strength of mine house, save those only whom I have appointed to tarry;

56 And go ye straightway unto the land of my vineyard, and redeem my vineyard; for it is mine; I have bought it with money.

57 Therefore, get ye straightway unto my land; break down the awalls of mine enemies; throw down their tower, and scatter their watchmen.

58 And inasmuch as they gather together against you, aavenge me of mine enemies, that by and by I may come with the residue of mine house and possess the land.

59 And the servant said unto his lord: When shall these things be?

60 And he said unto his servant: When I will; go ye straightway, and do all things whatsoever I have commanded you;

61 And this shall be my seal and ablessing upon you—a faithful and bwise steward in the midst of mine house, a cruler in my kingdom.

62 And his servant went straightway, and did all things whatsoever his lord commanded him; and aafter many days all things were fulfilled.

It's bizarre you cite these verses while being at variance with the church. Literally you are the one who is distracting from the building of the tower. The church is building churches and temples and calling missionaries, and mission presidents and doing everything it can to grow the church. The members are commanded to take part in building up the vineyards and you're distracted arguing about money and where we should put the effort instead.

Watch towers are where prophets can see and warn of coming dangers. What do you think all the conferences worldwide etc are for? The church is warning the vineyard and trying to strengthen it regularly. You are arguing about money, not them.

It is you who does not understand what the Lord is saying in this parable/prophecy. Do you and I get to decide what happens with tithing funds? No. It is the church leaders. You are attempting to take the responsibility away from those that have been given direct commandments from the Lord to build infrastructure that watches for the enemy.

If you are arguing that these men can "see around corners", then they are failing, and that's not our fault. I have seen no fruits of prophets from them. I have seen corrupt fruit though.

To be clear, that parable was given when the saints were driven out of their homes and their attempts to build up Zion thwarted.

The lesson to be learned is to work together in unity to build up those things that will provide a defense against wickedness. Not to argue and be complacent when the Lord commands us to get to work.

The lesson is NOT: "don't invest surplus funds".

The saints did not do as they were commanded in Jackson County because they were focused on their own needs, desires, arguing against the directives of the church and even refusing to consecrate their funds towards the building of the kingdom (huh, sounds like some here).

And they were overrun as a consequence. The parable is not one about the FP and Q12 being unwise and refusing to do God's will and instead just investing the money.

[InfoWarrior82]

“It is not intended that in making friends of the ‘mammon of unrighteousness’ that the brethren were to partake with them in their sins; to receive them to their bosoms, intermarry with them and otherwise come down to their level. They were to so live that peace with their enemies might be assured. They were to treat them kindly, be friendly with them as far as correct and virtuous principles would permit, but never to swear with them or drink and carouse with them. If they could allay prejudice and show a willingness to trade with and show a kindly spirit, it might help to turn them away from their bitterness. Judgment was to be left with the Lord” (Church History and Modern Revelation, 2 vols. [1953], 1:323).




43 And now, I will show unto you a parable, that you may know my will concerning the aredemption of Zion.

44 A certain anobleman had a spot of land, very choice; and he said unto his servants: Go ye unto my bvineyard, even upon this very choice piece of land, and plant twelve olive trees;

45 And set awatchmen round about them, and build a tower, that one may overlook the land round about, to be a watchman upon the tower, that mine olive trees may not be broken down when the enemy shall come to spoil and take upon themselves the fruit of my vineyard.

46 Now, the servants of the nobleman went and did as their lord commanded them, and planted the olive trees, and built a hedge round about, and set watchmen, and began to build a tower.

47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower?

48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace?

49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.

50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very aslothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.

51 And the enemy came by night, and broke down the ahedge; and the servants of the nobleman arose and were affrighted, and fled; and the enemy destroyed their works, and broke down the olive trees.

52 Now, behold, the nobleman, the lord of the avineyard, called upon his servants, and said unto them, Why! what is the cause of this great evil?

53 Ought ye not to have done even as I commanded you, and—after ye had planted the vineyard, and built the hedge round about, and set watchmen upon the walls thereof—built the tower also, and set a awatchman upon the tower, and watched for my vineyard, and not have fallen asleep, lest the enemy should come upon you?

54 And behold, the watchman upon the tower would have seen the enemy while he was yet afar off; and then ye could have made ready and kept the enemy from breaking down the hedge thereof, and saved my vineyard from the hands of the destroyer.

55 And the lord of the vineyard said unto one of his aservants: Go and gather together the residue of my servants, and take ball the strength of mine house, which are my warriors, my young men, and they that are of middle age also among all my servants, who are the strength of mine house, save those only whom I have appointed to tarry;

56 And go ye straightway unto the land of my vineyard, and redeem my vineyard; for it is mine; I have bought it with money.

57 Therefore, get ye straightway unto my land; break down the awalls of mine enemies; throw down their tower, and scatter their watchmen.

58 And inasmuch as they gather together against you, aavenge me of mine enemies, that by and by I may come with the residue of mine house and possess the land.

59 And the servant said unto his lord: When shall these things be?

60 And he said unto his servant: When I will; go ye straightway, and do all things whatsoever I have commanded you;

61 And this shall be my seal and ablessing upon you—a faithful and bwise steward in the midst of mine house, a cruler in my kingdom.

62 And his servant went straightway, and did all things whatsoever his lord commanded him; and aafter many days all things were fulfilled.

It's bizarre you cite these verses while being at variance with the church. Literally you are the one who is distracting from the building of the tower. The church is building churches and temples and calling missionaries, and mission presidents and doing everything it can to grow the church. The members are commanded to take part in building up the vineyards and you're distracted arguing about money and where we should put the effort instead.

Watch towers are where prophets can see and warn of coming dangers. What do you think all the conferences worldwide etc are for? The church is warning the vineyard and trying to strengthen it regularly. You are arguing about money, not them.

It is you who does not understand what the Lord is saying in this parable/prophecy. Do you and I get to decide what happens with tithing funds? No. It is the church leaders. You are attempting to take the responsibility away from those that have been given direct commandments from the Lord to build infrastructure that watches for the enemy.

If you are arguing that these men can "see around corners", then they are failing, and that's not our fault. I have seen no fruits of prophets from them. I have seen corrupt fruit though.

To be clear, that parable was given when the saints were driven out of their homes and their attempts to build up Zion thwarted.

The lesson to be learned is to work together in unity to build up those things that will provide a defense against wickedness. Not to argue and be complacent when the Lord commands us to get to work.

The lesson is NOT: "don't invest surplus funds".

The saints did not do as they were commanded in Jackson County because they were focused on their own needs, desires, arguing against the directives of the church and even refusing to consecrate their funds towards the building of the kingdom (huh, sounds like some here).

And they were overrun as a consequence. The parable is not one about the FP and Q12 being unwise and refusing to do God's will and instead just investing the money.

The Lord clearly appoints his Servants to do the work. He says that giving the money from the church to the exchangers is wrong. He said nothing about "surplus funds". You or I don't get to decide what happens to these sacred funds. Our church leaders do.

What happened to the second half of the prophecy/parable? You left this part out. The servants get overrun by their enemies. This has not happened yet. The enemy hasn't destroyed the vineyard yet. You know how I know this? Because immediately after, He comes back and appoints a new Servant to take back Zion by power. Notice how He uses the word Servant again? Yes, the Lord is speaking about the church leaders here.