The Church Playing shell games with your tithing

[Reluctant Watchman]

Read carefully who Moroni is calling out for their pride. Sure, the members are included, but there's a heck of a lot that sits squarely upon the leadership of the corporation.

Ah, of course, because we all know how evil those guys in that corporation are, because their revelation is not according to my pet theory and my politics, I mean, because remember, only I, a guy with the grievance and who bellyaches, knows the mind of the Lord, surely not those whose stewardship it is.

They are whoring after Babylon. Seems pretty evil to me. Heaven forbid we try to understand the doctrine of Christ.

[edgoble123]

They are whoring after Babylon. Seems pretty evil to me. Heaven forbid we try to understand the doctrine of Christ.

Surely, the Lord could never command to "make unto yourselves friends with the mammon of unrighteousness" (D&C 82:22; Luke 16:9)
Certainly it would never mean to make yourselves alliances with organizations and people of the lesser evils of the world, and to use federal reserve notes to fund things, and to invest things wisely in the market. No. It can never mean that. I mean, the Lord expects the brethren to take all earnings from the corporation and to hide their talent. I mean, of course the guy that hid the talent was the wise steward, and was the one congratulated for burying his talent in his mattress.

Surely the fact that the Corporation has directed its holdings to be held in the market and the Lord has blessed those holdings to multiply according to the parable of talents must mean that they ought to be condemned and likened unto the pride of the world condemned by Moroni. How dare they invest the talents of the Church in the market and get returns on those talents. Heaven forbid that the Lord would ever have anyone participate in investments according to the parable of the talents.

Surely the Church ought to never have a rainy day fund when nobody can pay tithing. But everyone is bellyaching about tithing that they are required to pay, and would then find fault even if the Church decided to not require tithing as they do, and whine about how the church is not giving all of its holdings to the poor at once and bankrupting itself to be like the CoC/RLDS who will be lucky if they don't lose all of their real estate in a couple of years time.

How dare the brethren direct the tithing funds to be used according to directives in policy to fund costly temples like the one built by Solomon with the finest of materials according to scriptural precedent!!! I mean, because surely, all endowments ought to be done on ensign peak. I mean, all temples ought to be built like the one built by Nephi! Because surely Nephi had a large trade network all across Meso and North America, having hooked up with ALL native American civilizations when he first got there, to have access to all that finery. NOT. The Nephites maybe at the time were numbered in the hundreds, having a sword in one hand and a trowel in another, not unlike the people in their desperate circumstances in Nauvoo.

[Reluctant Watchman]

They are whoring after Babylon. Seems pretty evil to me. Heaven forbid we try to understand the doctrine of Christ.

Surely, the Lord could never command to "make unto yourselves friends with the mammon of unrighteousness" (D&C 82:22; Luke 16:9)
Certainly it would never mean to make yourselves alliances with organizations and people of the lesser evils of the world, and to use federal reserve notes to fund things, and to invest things wisely in the market. No. It can never mean that. I mean, the Lord expects the brethren to take all earnings from the corporation and to hide their talent. I mean, of course the guy that hid the talent was the wise steward, and was the one congratulated for burying his talent in his mattress.

Surely the fact that the Corporation has directed its holdings to be held in the market and the Lord has blessed those holdings to multiply according to the parable of talents must mean that they ought to be condemned and likened unto the pride of the world condemned by Moroni. How dare they invest the talents of the Church in the market and get returns on those talents. Heaven forbid that the Lord would ever have anyone participate in investments according to the parable of the talents.

Surely the Church ought to never have a rainy day fund when nobody can pay tithing. But everyone is bellyaching about tithing that they are required to pay, and would then find fault even if the Church decided to not require tithing as they do, and whine about how the church is not giving all of its holdings to the poor at once and bankrupting itself to be like the CoC/RLDS who will be lucky if they don't lose all of their real estate in a couple of years time.

How dare the brethren direct the tithing funds to be used according to directives in policy to fund costly temples like the one built by Solomon with the finest of materials according to scriptural precedent!!!

You've made a philosophical/doctrinal pretzel. I suggest a heavy dose of that fake cheesy stuff. That's the only way it goes down.

[edgoble123]

You've made a philosophical/doctrinal pretzel. I suggest a heavy dose of that fake cheesy stuff. That's the only way it goes down.

Ah, ok, I'll make sure I watch sound of Music tonight with my wife, and and get a spoon full of sugar too.

[edgoble123]

You've made a philosophical/doctrinal pretzel. I suggest a heavy dose of that fake cheesy stuff. That's the only way it goes down.

Ah, ok, I'll make sure I watch sound of Music tonight with my wife, and and get a spoon full of sugar too.

Woops. Mary Poppins. Wrong reference.

[Reluctant Watchman]

You've made a philosophical/doctrinal pretzel. I suggest a heavy dose of that fake cheesy stuff. That's the only way it goes down.

Ah, ok, I'll make sure I watch sound of Music tonight with my wife, and and get a spoon full of sugar too.

I'd suggest Ricos Gourmet Nacho cheese: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ricos-Gourme ... hbdg=L1200

It helps any doctrine go down easier.

[edgoble123]

You've made a philosophical/doctrinal pretzel. I suggest a heavy dose of that fake cheesy stuff. That's the only way it goes down.

Ah, ok, I'll make sure I watch sound of Music tonight with my wife, and and get a spoon full of sugar too.

I'd suggest Ricos Gourmet Nacho cheese: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ricos-Gourme ... hbdg=L1200

It helps any doctrine go down easier.

Oh, Awesome!!!

[InfoWarrior82]

They are whoring after Babylon. Seems pretty evil to me. Heaven forbid we try to understand the doctrine of Christ.

Surely, the Lord could never command to "make unto yourselves friends with the mammon of unrighteousness" (D&C 82:22; Luke 16:9)
Certainly it would never mean to make yourselves alliances with organizations and people of the lesser evils of the world, and to use federal reserve notes to fund things, and to invest things wisely in the market. No. It can never mean that. I mean, the Lord expects the brethren to take all earnings from the corporation and to hide their talent. I mean, of course the guy that hid the talent was the wise steward, and was the one congratulated for burying his talent in his mattress.

Surely the fact that the Corporation has directed its holdings to be held in the market and the Lord has blessed those holdings to multiply according to the parable of talents must mean that they ought to be condemned and likened unto the pride of the world condemned by Moroni. How dare they invest the talents of the Church in the market and get returns on those talents. Heaven forbid that the Lord would ever have anyone participate in investments according to the parable of the talents.

Surely the Church ought to never have a rainy day fund when nobody can pay tithing. But everyone is bellyaching about tithing that they are required to pay, and would then find fault even if the Church decided to not require tithing as they do, and whine about how the church is not giving all of its holdings to the poor at once and bankrupting itself to be like the CoC/RLDS who will be lucky if they don't lose all of their real estate in a couple of years time.

How dare the brethren direct the tithing funds to be used according to directives in policy to fund costly temples like the one built by Solomon with the finest of materials according to scriptural precedent!!! I mean, because surely, all endowments ought to be done on ensign peak. I mean, all temples ought to be built like the one built by Nephi! Because surely Nephi had a large trade network all across Meso and North America, having hooked up with ALL native American civilizations when he first got there, to have access to all that finery. NOT. The Nephites maybe at the time were numbered in the hundreds, having a sword in one hand and a trowel in another, not unlike the people in their desperate circumstances in Nauvoo.

“It is not intended that in making friends of the ‘mammon of unrighteousness’ that the brethren were to partake with them in their sins; to receive them to their bosoms, intermarry with them and otherwise come down to their level. They were to so live that peace with their enemies might be assured. They were to treat them kindly, be friendly with them as far as correct and virtuous principles would permit, but never to swear with them or drink and carouse with them. If they could allay prejudice and show a willingness to trade with and show a kindly spirit, it might help to turn them away from their bitterness. Judgment was to be left with the Lord” (Church History and Modern Revelation, 2 vols. [1953], 1:323).




43 And now, I will show unto you a parable, that you may know my will concerning the aredemption of Zion.

44 A certain anobleman had a spot of land, very choice; and he said unto his servants: Go ye unto my bvineyard, even upon this very choice piece of land, and plant twelve olive trees;

45 And set awatchmen round about them, and build a tower, that one may overlook the land round about, to be a watchman upon the tower, that mine olive trees may not be broken down when the enemy shall come to spoil and take upon themselves the fruit of my vineyard.

46 Now, the servants of the nobleman went and did as their lord commanded them, and planted the olive trees, and built a hedge round about, and set watchmen, and began to build a tower.

47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower?

48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace?

49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.

50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very aslothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.

51 And the enemy came by night, and broke down the ahedge; and the servants of the nobleman arose and were affrighted, and fled; and the enemy destroyed their works, and broke down the olive trees.

52 Now, behold, the nobleman, the lord of the avineyard, called upon his servants, and said unto them, Why! what is the cause of this great evil?

53 Ought ye not to have done even as I commanded you, and—after ye had planted the vineyard, and built the hedge round about, and set watchmen upon the walls thereof—built the tower also, and set a awatchman upon the tower, and watched for my vineyard, and not have fallen asleep, lest the enemy should come upon you?

54 And behold, the watchman upon the tower would have seen the enemy while he was yet afar off; and then ye could have made ready and kept the enemy from breaking down the hedge thereof, and saved my vineyard from the hands of the destroyer.

55 And the lord of the vineyard said unto one of his aservants: Go and gather together the residue of my servants, and take ball the strength of mine house, which are my warriors, my young men, and they that are of middle age also among all my servants, who are the strength of mine house, save those only whom I have appointed to tarry;

56 And go ye straightway unto the land of my vineyard, and redeem my vineyard; for it is mine; I have bought it with money.

57 Therefore, get ye straightway unto my land; break down the awalls of mine enemies; throw down their tower, and scatter their watchmen.

58 And inasmuch as they gather together against you, aavenge me of mine enemies, that by and by I may come with the residue of mine house and possess the land.

59 And the servant said unto his lord: When shall these things be?

60 And he said unto his servant: When I will; go ye straightway, and do all things whatsoever I have commanded you;

61 And this shall be my seal and ablessing upon you—a faithful and bwise steward in the midst of mine house, a cruler in my kingdom.

62 And his servant went straightway, and did all things whatsoever his lord commanded him; and aafter many days all things were fulfilled.

[edgoble123]

“It is not intended that in making friends of the ‘mammon of unrighteousness’ that the brethren were to partake with them in their sins; to receive them to their bosoms, intermarry with them and otherwise come down to their level. They were to so live that peace with their enemies might be assured. They were to treat them kindly, be friendly with them as far as correct and virtuous principles would permit, but never to swear with them or drink and carouse with them. If they could allay prejudice and show a willingness to trade with and show a kindly spirit, it might help to turn them away from their bitterness. Judgment was to be left with the Lord” (Church History and Modern Revelation, 2 vols. [1953], 1:323).

(https://www.dictionary.com/browse/trade)

HMMMMMM.....

Then there's that good ol' refrain.

Cursed are all those that shall lift up the heel against mine anointed, saith the Lord, and cry they have sinned when they have not sinned before me, saith the Lord, but have done that which was meet in mine eyes, and which I commanded them. But those who cry transgression do it because they are the servants of sin, and are the children of disobedience themselves.

(D&C 121:16-17)

[InfoWarrior82]

“It is not intended that in making friends of the ‘mammon of unrighteousness’ that the brethren were to partake with them in their sins; to receive them to their bosoms, intermarry with them and otherwise come down to their level. They were to so live that peace with their enemies might be assured. They were to treat them kindly, be friendly with them as far as correct and virtuous principles would permit, but never to swear with them or drink and carouse with them. If they could allay prejudice and show a willingness to trade with and show a kindly spirit, it might help to turn them away from their bitterness. Judgment was to be left with the Lord” (Church History and Modern Revelation, 2 vols. [1953], 1:323).

(https://www.dictionary.com/browse/trade)

HMMMMMM.....

Then there's that good ol' refrain.

Cursed are all those that shall lift up the heel against mine anointed, saith the Lord, and cry they have sinned when they have not sinned before me, saith the Lord, but have done that which was meet in mine eyes, and which I commanded them. But those who cry transgression do it because they are the servants of sin, and are the children of disobedience themselves.

(D&C 121:16-17)

Trading as in bartering, my friend. What are we doing instead now? What are we trading?

You also left out the part where I showed you the words of Jesus Christ speaking and prophesying against His slothful servants doing improper things with tithing money.

Who are the Lord's anointed?

Are our leaders being more than kind? I believe so. Kindness is not joining with the secret combinations. Which is what they are openly and proudly doing.

[TwochurchesOnly]

“It is not intended that in making friends of the ‘mammon of unrighteousness’ that the brethren were to partake with them in their sins; to receive them to their bosoms, intermarry with them and otherwise come down to their level. They were to so live that peace with their enemies might be assured. They were to treat them kindly, be friendly with them as far as correct and virtuous principles would permit, but never to swear with them or drink and carouse with them. If they could allay prejudice and show a willingness to trade with and show a kindly spirit, it might help to turn them away from their bitterness. Judgment was to be left with the Lord” (Church History and Modern Revelation, 2 vols. [1953], 1:323).

(https://www.dictionary.com/browse/trade)

HMMMMMM.....

Then there's that good ol' refrain.

Cursed are all those that shall lift up the heel against mine anointed, saith the Lord, and cry they have sinned when they have not sinned before me, saith the Lord, but have done that which was meet in mine eyes, and which I commanded them. But those who cry transgression do it because they are the servants of sin, and are the children of disobedience themselves.

(D&C 121:16-17)

Trading as in bartering, my friend. What are we doing instead now? What are we trading?

You also left out the part where I showed you the words of Jesus Christ speaking and prophesying against His slothful servants doing improper things with tithing money.

Who are the Lord's anointed?

Are our leaders being more than kind? I believe so. Kindness is not joining with the secret combinations. Which is what they are openly and proudly doing.

And they gift millions of dollars to enemies of righteousness
- to " befriend" them?? And they pay millions to be members of and controlled by UN ... sickening

[InfoWarrior82]

“It is not intended that in making friends of the ‘mammon of unrighteousness’ that the brethren were to partake with them in their sins; to receive them to their bosoms, intermarry with them and otherwise come down to their level. They were to so live that peace with their enemies might be assured. They were to treat them kindly, be friendly with them as far as correct and virtuous principles would permit, but never to swear with them or drink and carouse with them. If they could allay prejudice and show a willingness to trade with and show a kindly spirit, it might help to turn them away from their bitterness. Judgment was to be left with the Lord” (Church History and Modern Revelation, 2 vols. [1953], 1:323).

(https://www.dictionary.com/browse/trade)

HMMMMMM.....

Then there's that good ol' refrain.

Cursed are all those that shall lift up the heel against mine anointed, saith the Lord, and cry they have sinned when they have not sinned before me, saith the Lord, but have done that which was meet in mine eyes, and which I commanded them. But those who cry transgression do it because they are the servants of sin, and are the children of disobedience themselves.

(D&C 121:16-17)

Trading as in bartering, my friend. What are we doing instead now? What are we trading?

You also left out the part where I showed you the words of Jesus Christ speaking and prophesying against His slothful servants doing improper things with tithing money.

Who are the Lord's anointed?

Are our leaders being more than kind? I believe so. Kindness is not joining with the secret combinations. Which is what they are openly and proudly doing.

And they gift millions of dollars to enemies of righteousness
- to " befriend" them?? And they pay millions to be members of and controlled by UN ... sickening

They openly and proudly joined with the United Nations officially. We officially, literally, (not figuratively) joined the United Nations Multi Faith Council on Sustainability for Agenda 2030.

If this is not the very definition of joining with secret combinations, I don't know what it means to be a Mormon anymore.


But don't fret, readers! What if I told you that prophets in the old testament and Book of Mormon already foretold of these things happening?

[Pahoran]

Have we talked about this scripture in reference to church investments?

Dc121
44 A certain nobleman had a spot of land, very choice; and he said unto his servants: Go ye unto my vineyard, even upon this very choice piece of land, and plant twelve olive trees; 45 And set watchmen round about them, and build a tower, that one may overlook the land round about, to be a watchman upon the tower, that mine olive trees may not be broken down when the enemy shall come to spoil and take upon themselves the fruit of my vineyard. 46 Now, the servants of the nobleman went and did as their lord commanded them, and planted the olive trees, and built a hedge round about, and set watchmen, and began to build a tower. 47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower? 48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace? 49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things. 50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very slothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord. 51 And the enemy came by night, and broke down the hedge; and the servants of the nobleman arose and were affrighted, and fled; and the enemy destroyed their works, and broke down the olive trees. 52 Now, behold, the nobleman, the lord of the vineyard, called upon his servants, and said unto them, Why! what is the cause of this great evil?

[InfoWarrior82]

Have we talked about this scripture in reference to church investments?

Dc121
44 A certain nobleman had a spot of land, very choice; and he said unto his servants: Go ye unto my vineyard, even upon this very choice piece of land, and plant twelve olive trees; 45 And set watchmen round about them, and build a tower, that one may overlook the land round about, to be a watchman upon the tower, that mine olive trees may not be broken down when the enemy shall come to spoil and take upon themselves the fruit of my vineyard. 46 Now, the servants of the nobleman went and did as their lord commanded them, and planted the olive trees, and built a hedge round about, and set watchmen, and began to build a tower. 47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower? 48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace? 49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things. 50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very slothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord. 51 And the enemy came by night, and broke down the hedge; and the servants of the nobleman arose and were affrighted, and fled; and the enemy destroyed their works, and broke down the olive trees. 52 Now, behold, the nobleman, the lord of the vineyard, called upon his servants, and said unto them, Why! what is the cause of this great evil?

Great minds think alike!

[Seed Starter]

(https://www.dictionary.com/browse/trade)

HMMMMMM.....

Then there's that good ol' refrain.

(D&C 121:16-17)

Trading as in bartering, my friend. What are we doing instead now? What are we trading?

You also left out the part where I showed you the words of Jesus Christ speaking and prophesying against His slothful servants doing improper things with tithing money.

Who are the Lord's anointed?

Are our leaders being more than kind? I believe so. Kindness is not joining with the secret combinations. Which is what they are openly and proudly doing.

And they gift millions of dollars to enemies of righteousness
- to " befriend" them?? And they pay millions to be members of and controlled by UN ... sickening

They openly and proudly joined with the United Nations officially. We officially, literally, (not figuratively) joined the United Nations Multi Faith Council on Sustainability for Agenda 2030.

If this is not the very definition of joining with secret combinations, I don't know what it means to be a Mormon anymore.


But don't fret, readers! What if I told you that prophets in the old testament and Book of Mormon already foretold of these things happening?

If they're going to get in bed with the UN they could at least request that the name of Jesus be included when our church is mentioned.
https://www.unaoc.org/2020/04/joint-sta ... velopment/


The church seems to be real sticklers on the use of its name.


They even have a style guide for media to use.
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/style-guide

I wonder how this oversight happened on a joint statement the church endorsed about a month after lockdowns.

"In this time of upheaval, sorrow and distress, religious leaders and faith-based organizations play a unique role in bringing people together around the common values of our shared humanity – solidarity and compassion. Solidarity and compassion should be promoted both within and between communities of faith. In this context, the IATF appreciates the strong engagement of its Multi-Faith Advisory Council (MFAC) and calls upon its members to remain strongly engaged with their respective constituencies to assist them in preparing for and responding to the current crisis, including by disseminating science-based information, facts, and evidence in accordance with UN policies and frameworks, and in particular with the guidance of the World Health Organization on COVID-19. IATF members look forward to working closely with the MFAC in this regard."

Flex those soft power muscles!

I'm sorry to interrupt the spirited back and forth. All is well in Zion. Carry on

[Reluctant Watchman]

I'm sorry to interrupt the spirited back and forth. All is well in Zion. Carry on

Well... Jesus has left the building.

[Atrasado]

Did I say that, or is the school in Utah not teaching proper reasoning for a few decades?

You guys sure need more classical studies.

Do you really believe Russell M Nelson has the gift of omniscience? I have never heard anyone, including President Nelson himself, make that claim.

Chega, já! Você precisa humildade. Você é muito mal educado e mostra por suas palavras que você não é um Cristão, apesar de seu professasão. Se você esta tentando afastir a gente aquí da Igreja esta fazendo um trabalho ótimo. Por favor, deixa a trabalho de Deus para as pessoas que tem um pouco mais amor pelas irmas e irmãos daqui e aprenda a significado de caridade.

[Silver Pie]

Chega, já! Você precisa humildade. Você é muito mal educado e mostra por suas palavras que você não é um Cristão, apesar de seu professasão. Se você esta tentando afastir a gente aquí da Igreja esta fazendo um trabalho ótimo. Por favor, deixa a trabalho de Deus para as pessoas que tem um pouco mais amor pelas irmas e irmãos daqui e aprenda a significado de caridade.

Google translate, so might not be super accurate.

Enough already! You need humility. You are very rude and show by your words that you are not a Christian, despite your profession. If you're trying to drive people away from the Church, you're doing a great job. Please leave God's work to the people who have a little more love for the sisters and brothers here and learn the meaning of charity.

[Silver Pie]

Google translate, so might not be super accurate.

[Silver Pie]

Google translate, so might not be super accurate.

I can't resist one more.

[Liahona]

Queue the video detailing how the son’s of Mosiah had great desires to change the behavior of their brethren the Lamanites and bring them to Jesus.

Sounds like you need to go to salt lake and call them to repentance right away then. You had better get on the phone and set up an appointment with Russel M. Nelson in his office right away, without delay and make your accusations instead of bellyaching on an internet forum.

Or, you could just worry about your own life, your own behavior, your own faults and things you can rationally change for yourself.

You are implicitly advocating for blind loyalty to men simply on the basis of their station within the Church. That kind of blind loyalty is what gets people defrauded. The SEC has laid out a compelling case of intentional efforts to obfuscate and deceive, all of which was done with the knowledge and approval of the First Presidency and the Presiding Bishopric. You may be willing to look past all of that, but you don't get to tell people how they should feel about that kind of deception.

Good reply to that ridiculous comment. I’ll just add that the Church agreed to the SEC’s case. So it’s much more than it just being compelling.

[Liahona]

You’re shifting blame to the people. The blame lies right with Ensign Peak and the top leadership of the Church.

What matters here is how the leadership, who agreed to the settlement are going to decide how to behave. Are you seriously advocating that they have a different standard than the rest of us?

What happened to “do what is right, let the consequences follow”? A consequence is the huge erosion of trust with the membership and public.

The matter is NOT closed.

Is that so? When something is out of someone's personal control, why does that matter to that person's personal choices and behavior, when they have been directed on how to behave, if they choose that direction? If they don't choose that direction, and choose not to care about what they have been directed to do, well, sure, go right ahead and obsess about other people's behavior.

I affirm my commitment to comply with the rules of this forum, regret your comments on blind loyalty, and now consider the matter closed.

[Silver Pie]

I affirm my commitment to comply with the rules of this forum, regret your comments on blind loyalty, and now consider the matter closed.

[[email protected]]

It's both sad and amusing to see certain people here (one from Brazil of all places) defend the Church's decision to dishonestly hide it's wealth from the members for fear tithing revenue would drop if they were honest and transparent with the amount of wealth they currently hold. As has been stated, this decision was made with the knowledge and approval of the First Presidency going back over two decades and it had nothing to do with tax evasion or avoidance and everything to do with keeping the tithe paying membership in the dark.

That is what the main issue is, it's not really about the amount of money amassed so much as the deception of the membership that took place. A deception that went so far as to violate Federal regulations leading to the recent SEC fine of 5 million dollars. This fine almost certainly would have been much higher if the US government in fact were "out to get the Church" as some have baselessly suggested. The amount of money paid is less than pocket change for both the Church and the US government. Again, it's not really about the money for any party.

"Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow man?"

https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2023-35

Were the senior leadership of the Church honest in their dealings with their fellow members?

The uncomfortable facts are these:

We have a Church which is cutting back significantly on spending for youth programs, local ward and stake activities and is generally very tight with money for it's own membership and employees. This same Church was now caught hiding billions of dollars of wealth and assets from this same membership it both generates revenue from, and has cut back on spending on.

I'm sorry but this is not a good look.

[spiritMan]

It's both sad and amusing to see certain people here (one from Brazil of all places) defend the Church's decision to dishonestly hide it's wealth from the members for fear tithing revenue would drop if they were honest and transparent with the amount of wealth they currently hold. As has been stated, this decision was made with the knowledge and approval of the First Presidency going back over two decades and it had nothing to do with tax evasion or avoidance and everything to do with keeping the tithe paying membership in the dark.

That is what the main issue is, it's not really about the amount of money amassed so much as the deception of the membership that took place. A deception that went so far as to violate Federal regulations leading to the recent SEC fine of 5 million dollars. This fine almost certainly would have been much higher if the US government in fact were "out to get the Church" as some have baselessly suggested. The amount of money paid is less than pocket change for both the Church and the US government. Again, it's not really about the money for any party.

"Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow man?"

https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2023-35

Were the senior leadership of the Church honest in their dealings with their fellow members?

The uncomfortable facts are these:

We have a Church which is cutting back significantly on spending for youth programs, local ward and stake activities and is generally very tight with money for it's own membership and employees. This same Church was now caught hiding billions of dollars of wealth and assets from this same membership it both generates revenue from, and has cut back on spending on.

I'm sorry but this is not a good look.

They were fined the maximum amount possible.