Where would you start looking for off grid property?

[solonan]

Veda, what type of coal do y'all have? I don't want soft coal I want anthocite. Thanks.

Where can you find a community of people with a predominantly productive (as opposed to consumptive) orientation in Utah?

Central and Southeast Utah. There isn’t a lot to consume, but you must produce if you want to make a go of it.

One of RW's criteria was a stream on the property. I've been looking in central and SW Utah for land and this criteria, and the one about large portions of the property being wooded seem difficult to achieve. If I am mistaken, please let me know, because I love that region and would prefer it myself.

There aren’t a lot of wooded areas, wooded areas aren’t far away. Most of the rural towns in central and SE Utah concentrate on farming, and cattle, and sheep. They also produce a ton of energy via coal and solar. Water is there, I have a year round creek 3/4 mile from my house. It can be tough to find.

[solonan]

Cewa, what type of coal do y'all have in Utah. I need it and I wondered if it's anthocite.

[M249Gunner]

Cewa, what type of coal do y'all have in Utah. I need it and I wondered if it's anthocite.

Coal is in short supply in Utah with Lila Canyon starting on fire and shutting down and other reasons. I don't believe any anthracite is mined in Utah. Our power plants are running out.

[Silver Pie]

land with NO RESTRICTIONS. No CCRs, HOAs, covenants or building code.

Amen! I avoid HOAs and covenant properties like the plague! (I'm not familiar with CCRs.) Also, timber rights, water rights, and mineral rights, or you may find you can't cut down your own trees, you have no control over the water you may find on your property, and someone else may come in and claim any minerals they find on your property.

A very, very few places have no building codes. There's a county in Colorado that I mentioned above (Delta, I think), and maybe another Colorado county. I'm not sure if there's any other place like that in the U.S.

[Silver Pie]

I had a friend recently say that when he asked his realtor about building codes and restrictions they just kind of scrunched their face and said, “What?”

That's pretty much the reaction my mom got when she wanted to buy some property and asked about timber rights/water rights/mineral rights. The seller had no idea what she was talking about. Not necessarily a good sign, at least in her case.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

land with NO RESTRICTIONS. No CCRs, HOAs, covenants or building code.

Amen! I avoid HOAs and covenant properties like the plague! (I'm not familiar with CCRs.) Also, timber rights, water rights, and mineral rights, or you may find you can't cut down your own trees, you have no control over the water you may find on your property, and someone else may come in and claim any minerals they find on your property.

A very, very few places have no building codes. There's a county in Colorado that I mentioned above (Delta, I think), and maybe another Colorado county. I'm not sure if there's any other place like that in the U.S.

@Fred how are the restrictions on those properties out in Duchesne county? What rights do the properties come with?

[mudflap]

land with NO RESTRICTIONS. No CCRs, HOAs, covenants or building code.

Amen! I avoid HOAs and covenant properties like the plague! (I'm not familiar with CCRs.) Also, timber rights, water rights, and mineral rights, or you may find you can't cut down your own trees, you have no control over the water you may find on your property, and someone else may come in and claim any minerals they find on your property.

A very, very few places have no building codes. There's a county in Colorado that I mentioned above (Delta, I think), and maybe another Colorado county. I'm not sure if there's any other place like that in the U.S.

oh, they're everywhere, actually - if your property is outside city limits or outside of an incorporated area (no sewers / no power), you might not need permits. Best thing to do is go to the county permit office and just ask them. My cabin is about a mile from an unincorporated area - actually 3 of them - west, east, and south - where you don't need a permit - but you don't usually get utilities in those areas (so that's a clue as to whether a permit is required).

My buddy went to about 20 counties in TN and talked to the county building permit offices and finally found a county he liked that didn't require permits. he just got done building a garage, and cleared his driveway. This spring he's cutting trees for logs and doing his foundation. no permit required.

We weighed our options and decided that power/ sewer /and water was an added expense we didn't want to deal with, so we bought land within a "permit required" area.

[Silver Pie]

On the rammed earth, We built heavy duty forms, bought a 200 cfm compressor and air pounder, mixed the proper dirt mix with heavy equipment, pounded the hell out of it.

A friend and his brother built a rammed earth building around his well. I don't think they had what you had. Seems they just used hammers (not the kind for nails; maybe more like a mallet or a sledge hammer) - something less fancy than you had to beat down the dirt, then took the forms off. It does have a very few cracks (it was built several years ago), but has survived nicely through many summers and winters (they get snow and sometimes the rain causes a lot of flooding; typical desert).

I do like the idea of using wood with straw bale, but I'd like to try it on its own, as well as around wood frame construction (with the little buildings I mentioned).

[Silver Pie]

A very, very few places have no building codes. There's a county in Colorado that I mentioned above (Delta, I think), and maybe another Colorado county. I'm not sure if there's any other place like that in the U.S.

oh, they're everywhere, actually - if your property is outside city limits or outside of an incorporated area (no sewers / no power), you might not need permits. Best thing to do is go to the county permit office and just ask them. My cabin is about a mile from an unincorporated area - actually 3 of them - west, east, and south - where you don't need a permit - but you don't usually get utilities in those areas (so that's a clue as to whether a permit is required).

My buddy went to about 20 counties in TN and talked to the county building permit offices and finally found a county he liked that didn't require permits. he just got done building a garage, and cleared his driveway. This spring he's cutting trees for logs and doing his foundation. no permit required.

Wow! I totally did not know that! That gives me some hope.

[Fred]

land with NO RESTRICTIONS. No CCRs, HOAs, covenants or building code.

Amen! I avoid HOAs and covenant properties like the plague! (I'm not familiar with CCRs.) Also, timber rights, water rights, and mineral rights, or you may find you can't cut down your own trees, you have no control over the water you may find on your property, and someone else may come in and claim any minerals they find on your property.

A very, very few places have no building codes. There's a county in Colorado that I mentioned above (Delta, I think), and maybe another Colorado county. I'm not sure if there's any other place like that in the U.S.

@Fred how are the restrictions on those properties out in Duchesne county? What rights do the properties come with?

Mineral rights depend on who you buy from. I have an old rancher friend that owns thousands of acres and he earns thousands of dollars per month from each oil well that is on his land. But most people do not get the mineral rights when they purchase land. Sometimes it is as simple as demanding them, but sometimes the owner does not have them as they were retained in an earlier sale.

[Fred]

Also, if you get a well permit, you have a right to water on your property in perpetuity.

Most of the off-grid property in Duchesne County is zoned recreational. Therefore, there are no restrictions on mobile buildings. So to legally build a building without a permit, simply build it on blocks. It is mobile. It could be moved. You are under no obligation to ever move it, however.

[Silver Pie]

Also, if you get a well permit, you have a right to water on your property in perpetuity.

Most of the off-grid property in Duchesne County is zoned recreational. Therefore, there are no restrictions on mobile buildings. So to legally build a building without a permit, simply build it on blocks. It is mobile. It could be moved. You are under no obligation to ever move it, however.

I don't know about your area, but in a county I lived in in Arizona, if you put a building on skids, it was also considered mobile because you could pull it to another place.

[mudflap]

https://monolithicdome.com/on-a-hill-am ... -dome-home

interesting.

[Silver Pie]

In keeping with cool houses, I just saw this on another forum:

[FoxMammaWisdom]

https://monolithicdome.com/on-a-hill-am ... -dome-home

interesting.

I grew up in this house that used to be located in timberline Utah halfway between Salt Lake and Park City. It was artistic and eccentric like my parents, definitely not a survival home like the dirt Barbapa domes. The closest dome you see was a big massive living room. My bedroom was half of the dome on the other side of the house. My brother's room was the other half. The top dome was the master suite. The domes were made with large pie shaped pieces that curved and met together at the top. Very bad design - we had leaks and mushrooms growing out of the seams on the walls at one point. My stepfather tore it all apart and we lived in a half built mess the rest of the time. At some point after we left the home it was destroyed and a completely different design built from scratch on the foundation.

The design in the video would work a million times better, but dome homes are fun!

[tmac]

In keeping with cool houses, I just saw this on another forum:

Thanks for the video. Pretty amazing.

[Silver Pie]

It actually made me think of mudflap. Because they both made houses from scratch.

[Mala_Suerte]

I’ve honest thought about South America. I just need to get remote enough.

That shouldn't be too big of a problem. Lol.

If you're looking to stay stateside, I'd look in Eastern Oklahoma and Arkansas, in the Ozarks. Plenty of rain, streams, rivers, forest and a long growing season. Tornadoes do not generally materialize in hilly areas, so that shouldn't be a problem. While there is an Air Force Base in Norman, OK, the Ozarks are far enough east and south of Norman that it shouldn't be a problem. Oklahoma is a great state.

[Mala_Suerte]

https://monolithicdome.com/on-a-hill-am ... -dome-home

interesting.

Monolithic domes are about the best survival home out there. Fireproof, windproof and to an extent bulletproof (video on YT of some guy shooting his w/ a .30-06 and nothing happening). They are also extremely energy efficient. One centralized wood stove will heat the whole thing.

[Mala_Suerte]

https://monolithicdome.com/on-a-hill-am ... -dome-home

interesting.

I grew up in this house that used to be located in timberline Utah halfway between Salt Lake and Park City. It was artistic and eccentric like my parents, definitely not a survival home like the dirt Barbapa domes. The closest dome you see was a big massive living room. My bedroom was half of the dome on the other side of the house. My brother's room was the other half. The top dome was the master suite. The domes were made with large pie shaped pieces that curved and met together at the top. Very bad design - we had leaks and mushrooms growing out of the seams on the walls at one point. My stepfather tore it all apart and we lived in a half built mess the rest of the time. At some point after we left the home it was destroyed and a completely different design built from scratch on the foundation.

The design in the video would work a million times better, but dome homes are fun!

Cool house.

[Fred]

I lived near here for over 10 years. I don't recommend it, but land is cheap.

[mudflap]

I lived near here for over 10 years. I don't recommend it, but land is cheap.

$9500 for 1/4 acre? That's a bit steep at $38k per acre... why? is there gold in the dirt?

I paid somewhere around $5k per acre for flat land with trees that doesn't need irrigation. I could dig for water if I had to - I'm hearing it's like 20' down, is all. But I have water, sewer and power at the road.

I've never understood why land out west is so pricey, especially desert land. It should be like $1k per acre, IMO.

[Fred]

I lived near here for over 10 years. I don't recommend it, but land is cheap.

$9500 for 1/4 acre? That's a bit steep at $38k per acre... why? is there gold in the dirt?

I paid somewhere around $5k per acre for flat land with trees that doesn't need irrigation. I could dig for water if I had to - I'm hearing it's like 20' down, is all. But I have water, sewer and power at the road.

I've never understood why land out west is so pricey, especially desert land. It should be like $1k per acre, IMO.

There is land for less than $1k per acre in Arizona and Utah. Just not if you want only a small piece. There was some land near where I am now for only a few hundred per acre last year or so, but it was thousands of acres and they want cash.

One thing the west has is space. If you want to guarantee no neighbors within 5 miles, that is pretty easy. Try that east of the Mississippi.

[mudflap]

I lived near here for over 10 years. I don't recommend it, but land is cheap.

$9500 for 1/4 acre? That's a bit steep at $38k per acre... why? is there gold in the dirt?

I paid somewhere around $5k per acre for flat land with trees that doesn't need irrigation. I could dig for water if I had to - I'm hearing it's like 20' down, is all. But I have water, sewer and power at the road.

I've never understood why land out west is so pricey, especially desert land. It should be like $1k per acre, IMO.

There is land for less than $1k per acre in Arizona and Utah. Just not if you want only a small piece. There was some land near where I am now for only a few hundred per acre last year or so, but it was thousands of acres and they want cash.

One thing the west has is space. If you want to guarantee no neighbors within 5 miles, that is pretty easy. Try that east of the Mississippi.

I mean, if you only want 1/4 acre, I guess I get that, but for "off-grid" in a desert, you typically need MORE land in a desert to get the same yield you would get in a less arid environment - that's why cattle ranches in the west were huge, historically. So, yeah, if you can get it for less than $1k, that's where it's at, in my book.

And I'll give you that the west has more open space- that's one thing I really miss. But in the Appalachians, there are plenty of private "hollers" where you can't see any neighbors, due to the hills and vales all over the place.

If you want solitude though, 1/4 doesn't give you much. Some meth head could buy the 1/4 acre next to yours, and phhht! there goes the neighborhood, right? I get squeamish with my < 4 acres. wish it was 100. but it is what it is. i DO have some awesome neighbors, so I'm not going to complain. Feels like the almost perfect place to survive a collapse with the ones I've got - good fishing, good hunting, plenty of game, defensible, good crop land, mild seasons, plenty of water, buffered by some mountains (what you would call hills, lol), not too near anything big.

Practically, I would value "usefulness" and "productivity" over just solitude. And also, pretty hard to survive off-grid all by yourself on 1/4 acre - you really need a community. well, most of us would. I mean, I lie to myself and say I could take a backpack out in the backcountry and survive just fine for months, but reality is, I've never done it. Add a wife and kids.....definite nope.

[Fred]

$9500 for 1/4 acre? That's a bit steep at $38k per acre... why? is there gold in the dirt?

I paid somewhere around $5k per acre for flat land with trees that doesn't need irrigation. I could dig for water if I had to - I'm hearing it's like 20' down, is all. But I have water, sewer and power at the road.

I've never understood why land out west is so pricey, especially desert land. It should be like $1k per acre, IMO.

There is land for less than $1k per acre in Arizona and Utah. Just not if you want only a small piece. There was some land near where I am now for only a few hundred per acre last year or so, but it was thousands of acres and they want cash.

One thing the west has is space. If you want to guarantee no neighbors within 5 miles, that is pretty easy. Try that east of the Mississippi.

I mean, if you only want 1/4 acre, I guess I get that, but for "off-grid" in a desert, you typically need MORE land in a desert to get the same yield you would get in a less arid environment - that's why cattle ranches in the west were huge, historically. So, yeah, if you can get it for less than $1k, that's where it's at, in my book.

And I'll give you that the west has more open space- that's one thing I really miss. But in the Appalachians, there are plenty of private "hollers" where you can't see any neighbors, due to the hills and vales all over the place.

If you want solitude though, 1/4 doesn't give you much. Some meth head could buy the 1/4 acre next to yours, and phhht! there goes the neighborhood, right? I get squeamish with my < 4 acres. wish it was 100. but it is what it is. i DO have some awesome neighbors, so I'm not going to complain. Feels like the almost perfect place to survive a collapse with the ones I've got - good fishing, good hunting, plenty of game, defensible, good crop land, mild seasons, plenty of water, buffered by some mountains (what you would call hills, lol), not too near anything big.

Practically, I would value "usefulness" and "productivity" over just solitude. And also, pretty hard to survive off-grid all by yourself on 1/4 acre - you really need a community. well, most of us would. I mean, I lie to myself and say I could take a backpack out in the backcountry and survive just fine for months, but reality is, I've never done it. Add a wife and kids.....definite nope.

Agreed. Where I am at, you can't even get a building permit on less than ten acres. Or a well permit. An old rancher friend told me why the ranchers called the area "Starvation." It is because there is almost nothing for the open range cattle to eat. They named the reservoir Starvation for that reason.