An Apron?

[Serragon]

The Apron represents our sin in following Satan instead of God. It represents our hubris in doing things our way and submitting to the natural man. It is a representation of our true master if we do not repent.

The Apron is later covered by the sash, which represents the atoning blood of Christ.

[Ciams]

So your perspective is that truth is actually being added to the Endowment, line upon line, rather than being taken away?

All these changes are just part of God’s plan from the beginning, to eventually perfect the Endowment little by little? I just want to clarify, is that what you’re saying?

Heavy sigh — just for the fun of it.

Here a little (for one generation) there a little (for another).

My contention is not that there is some platonic ideal endowment. I see that as the Greek influence creeping into the gospel. We have it all over the place. I probably have those beams in my eye from time to time! The only platonic ideal there is....is Christ. But our understanding of him grows across our lives, and that understanding becomes more widespread across generations. In other ways, it's contracts in our lives and likewise contracts across the generations.

So the endowment, I see it, as absolutely being modified to fit the needs of a generation that on one hand very much wants to follow Christ, but on the other, spends most of their day doing anything but that and then goes to the temple and doesn't have the patience to let the spirit connect all the dots for them. So various changes are instituted. Does that mean everything is gotten exactly right exactly as I would do it? No because I'm one individual out of billions and what's exactly right for me might not work for 30% of the other people who go to the temple and are confused or grump or like the seed sown on rocky ground that doesn't send it's roots deep enough. Meanwhile, in my view, I hope those of us, who profess to know better. Those of us, who profess to know God. Those of us who profess to know what God would do and what God wants.... would be willing to use that Godlike wisdom to.... BE PATIENT with the weakness of others and help them make forward progress one step at a time.

God doesn't expect us to run faster than we have strength. If we, collectively, as a people don't have enough strength to run, we need to walk. You might say, "but then we are losing something". No, if you have something to gain by the spirit God will give it to you. He gave me exactly what I progressed towards, that some would argue was lost. I never heard or knew about it, and I received it direct from the source. But for someone to argue any change represents apostasy, has to square the various law of consecration and united order type changes. It's always been the case that for those who are doing it "right" when things get changed to help others, the bar could said to be lowered. But all the more reason for those who profess to be right to actually step up and help and serve and bring others to what they suppose is their level.

In reality, I don't think by pointing the endowment more to Christ the bar was lowered. I think some of the changes are sad in my view, and that goes all the way back and before to ending live sessions and having filmed ones. But there are all very good and defensible ones to make. The church is always adapting, here a little there a little. No platonic ideals other than Christ in my theology.

[Hogmeister]

When you study Gnostisism it becomes rather clear that Freemasonry is a copycat.

Gnostisism is a corrupt form of ancient Christianity - The anti-christian secret Jewish societies tried to destroy Christianity as murdering Christ proved to be not enough. They still hate Christianity as they believe Christ was an impostor and a fraud. They tried to destroy Christianity by creating Gnosticism using fables and some of their own mysticism. And they continue to this day. Freemasons are for the most part useful idiots for more secret anti-christian societies…

It is becoming increasingly apparent that Freemasonry (which Mormon temple endowment etc is based) is “Luciferian.” Like most lower tier lds members, I’d guess most lower tier Freemason members are also clueless about evil in higher places.

How is Freemasonry copying Gnosticism?
I’ve never heard that & if you have any more info explaining that, I’d appreciate it.

Admittedly, I have a lot more to learn, but what I’ve gathered so far is that Rome/Catholicism was the great corruptor of Christianity & Catholic leaders opposed Gnosticism. I disagree with some Gnostic teachings - like discounting the body as evil - yet Jesus kinda did this when he said, “Let the dead bury the dead.” But much of it seemed to be opposite of evil Jewish & Catholic focus on the letter of the law. Gnosticism seems to focus (maybe to a fault) on the Spirit of the law, as Christ did.

My impression is also that Gnosticism preceded Christianity - and that it was the original Christianity which influenced Jesus/Yeshua, along with Buddhism.

“…the late first century and early second century, in which the foundations of Gnostic traditions were laid at the same time that the New Testament was being written…”

I read that Gnostics originally viewed Christ as a Spirit. And indeed, Christ is not Jesus’s/Yeshua’s last name, but what he became & urged us to follow him & become…

According to Gnostic teaching, "To know Christ was not in any sense to have knowledge about the 'historical man of flesh and blood' but rather to be personally related to the mythical heavenly being who liberates humanity from historical concerns" (Lee, p 20).

Freemasonry was not Luciferian at the beginning. But is becoming more and more so.

"You know that according to the unwritten history known only to us, the founder of the First Communist International is indicated, of course secretly, as being Weishaupt. You remember his name? He was the head of the masonry which is known by the name of the Illuminati; this name he borrowed from the second anti-Christian conspiracy of that era - gnosticism.

This important revolutionary, Semite and former Jesuit, foreseeing the triumph of the French revolution decided, or perhaps he was ordered (some mention as his chief the important philosopher Mendelssohn) to found a secret organization which was to provoke and push the French revolution to go further than its political objectives, with the aim of transforming it into a social revolution for the establishment of Communism. In those heroic times it was colossally dangerous to mention Communism as an aim; from this derive the various precautions and secrets, which had to surround the Illuminati. More than a hundred years were required before a man could confess to being a Communist without danger of going to prison or being executed. This is more or less known.

What is not known are the relations between Weishaupt and his followers with the first of the Rothschilds. The secret of the acquisition of wealth of the best known bankers could have been explained by the fact that they were the treasurers of this first Comintern. There is evidence that when the five brothers spread out to the five provinces of the financial empire of Europe, they had some secret help for the accumulation of these enormous sums: it is possible that they were those first Communists from the Bavarian catacombs who were already spread all over Europe. But others say, and I think with better reason, that the Rothschilds were not the treasurers, but the chiefs of that first secret Communism.

This opinion is based on that well-known fact that Marx and the highest chiefs of the First International - already the open one - and among them Herzen and Heine, were controlled by Baron Lionel Rothschild, whose revolutionary portrait was done by Disraeli (in Coningsby - Transl.) the English Premier, who was his creature, and has been left to us. He described him in the character of Sidonia, a man, who, according to the story, was a multi-millionaire, knew and controlled spies, carbonari, freemasons, secret Jews, gypsies, revolutionaries etc., etc. All this seems fantastic. But it has been proved that Sidonia is an idealized portrait of the son of Nathan Rothschild, which can also be deduced from that campaign which he raised against Tsar Nicholas in favour of Herzen. He won this campaign.

If all that which we can guess in the light of these facts is true, then, I think, we could even determine who invented this terrible machine of accumulation and anarchy, which is the financial International. At the same time, I think, he would be the same person who also created the revolutionary International. It is an act of genius: to create with the help of Capitalism accumulation of the highest degree, to push the proletariat towards strikes, to sow hopelessness, and at the same time to create an organization which must unite the proletarians with the purpose of driving them into revolution. This is to write the most majestic chapter of history. Even more: remember the phrase of the mother of the five Rothschild brothers: "If my sons want it, then there will be no war."

[Hogmeister]

When you study Gnostisism it becomes rather clear that Freemasonry is a copycat.

Gnostisism is a corrupt form of ancient Christianity - The anti-christian secret Jewish societies tried to destroy Christianity as murdering Christ proved to be not enough. They still hate Christianity as they believe Christ was an impostor and a fraud. They tried to destroy Christianity by creating Gnosticism using fables and some of their own mysticism. And they continue to this day. Freemasons are for the most part useful idiots for more secret anti-christian societies…

It is becoming increasingly apparent that Freemasonry (which Mormon temple endowment etc is based) is “Luciferian.” Like most lower tier lds members, I’d guess most lower tier Freemason members are also clueless about evil in higher places.

How is Freemasonry copying Gnosticism?
I’ve never heard that & if you have any more info explaining that, I’d appreciate it.

Admittedly, I have a lot more to learn, but what I’ve gathered so far is that Rome/Catholicism was the great corruptor of Christianity & Catholic leaders opposed Gnosticism. I disagree with some Gnostic teachings - like discounting the body as evil - yet Jesus kinda did this when he said, “Let the dead bury the dead.” But much of it seemed to be opposite of evil Jewish & Catholic focus on the letter of the law. Gnosticism seems to focus (maybe to a fault) on the Spirit of the law, as Christ did.

My impression is also that Gnosticism preceded Christianity - and that it was the original Christianity which influenced Jesus/Yeshua, along with Buddhism.

“…the late first century and early second century, in which the foundations of Gnostic traditions were laid at the same time that the New Testament was being written…”

I read that Gnostics originally viewed Christ as a Spirit. And indeed, Christ is not Jesus’s/Yeshua’s last name, but what he became & urged us to follow him & become…

According to Gnostic teaching, "To know Christ was not in any sense to have knowledge about the 'historical man of flesh and blood' but rather to be personally related to the mythical heavenly being who liberates humanity from historical concerns" (Lee, p 20).

Some excerpts from the Gnostic work Pistis Sophia (I have read the whole thing at least twice and it is a lot of text):

"Now, therefore, when I shall have explained unto you the whole expansion, I will give you and tell you the great mysteries of the three allotments of my kingdom, that is the heads of the mysteries which I will give you and tell you in all their figures and all their types and in their ciphers and the seals of the last space, that is the first space from without. And I will tell you the answers and the apologies and the tokens of that space.

"The second space which is within, possesseth no answers nor apologies nor tokens nor ciphers nor seals; but it possesseth only types and figures."





CHAPTER 108

It came to pass, when Jesus had finished saying these words unto his disciples, that Mary adored the feet of Jesus and kissed them. Mary said: "My Lord, bear with me, if I question thee, and be not wroth with me."

The Saviour answered and said unto Mary: "Question concerning what thou desirest to question, and I will reveal it |275. unto thee in openness."

And Mary answered and said: "My Lord, suppose a good and excellent brother whom we have filled with all the mysteries of the Light, and that brother hath a brother or kinsman, in a

[p. 230]

word he hath in general [any] man, and this [man] is a sinner and impious or better he is no sinner, and such an one hath gone out of the body, and the heart of the good brother is grieved and mourneth over him, that he is in judgments and chastisements,--now, therefore, my Lord, what are we to do to remove him out of the chastisements and harsh judgments?"

And the Saviour answered and said unto Mary: "Concerning this word, therefore, I have already spoken unto you at another time, but hearken that I may say it again, so that ye may be perfected in all mysteries and be called 'the perfected in every fulness.'

"Now, therefore, all men, sinners or better who are no sinners, not only if ye desire that they be taken out of the judgments and violent chastisements, but that they be removed into a righteous body which will find the mysteries of the godhead, so that it goeth on high and inheriteth the Light-kingdom,--then perform the third mystery of the Ineffable |276. and say: Carry ye the soul of this and this man of whom we think in our hearts, carry him out of all the chastisements of the rulers and haste ye quickly to lead him before the Virgin of Light; and in every month let the Virgin of Light seal him with a higher seal, and in every month let the Virgin of Light cast him into a body which will be righteous and good, so that it goeth on high and inheriteth the Light-kingdom. "And if ye say this, amen, I say unto you: All who serve in all the orders of the judgments of the rulers, hasten to hand over that soul from one to the other, until they lead it before the Virgin of Light. And the Virgin of Light sealeth

[p. 231]

it with the sign of the kingdom of the Ineffable and handeth it over unto her receivers, and the receivers will cast it into a body which will be righteous and find the mysteries of the Light, so that it will be good and goeth on high and inheriteth the Light-kingdom. Lo, this is it on which ye question me."


Pistis Sophia, by G.R.S. Mead, [1921], at sacred-texts.com



CHAPTER 109

And Mary answered and said: "Now, therefore, my Lord, hast thou then not brought mysteries into the world that man |277. may not die through the death which is appointed him by the rulers of the Fate,--be it that it is appointed one to die by the sword or die by the waters or through tortures and torturings and acts of violence which are in the law, or through any other evil death,--hast thou then not brought mysteries into the world that man may not die with them through the rulers of the Fate, but that he may die by a sudden death, so that he endure no sufferings through such kinds of death? For they are exceedingly numerous who persecute us because of thee, and numerous those who persecute us because of thy name, in order that, if they torture us, we may speak the mystery and straightway go out of the body without having endured any sufferings at all."

The Saviour answered and said unto all his disciples: "Concerning this word on which ye question me, I have spoken unto you at another time; but hearken again that I may say it unto you anew: Not only ye, but every man who will accomplish that first mystery of the First Mystery of the Ineffable,--he who, therefore, shall perform that mystery and accomplish it in all its figures and all its types and all its stations, in

[p. 232]

performing it, he will not come out of the body; but after he hath accomplished that mystery in all its figures |278. and all its types, thereafter then at every time when he shall speak the name of that mystery, he will save himself from all that which is appointed him by the rulers of the Fate. And in that hour he will come forth out of the body of the matter of the rulers, and his soul will become a great light-stream, so that it soareth on high and penetrateth all the regions of the rulers and all the regions of the Light, until it reacheth the region of its kingdom. Neither giveth it answers nor apologies in any region at all, for it is without tokens."

[Obeone]

Who is the only person in the temple video wearing an apron?

What does he say that it represents?

Who commands Adam and Eve to make aprons of fig leaves?

Why are we wearing aprons in the temple?

Should we really be wearing aprons which represent Satanic priesthood?


I'm trying to understand why we obey him and don aprons at his suggestion ...

Good questions.

The apron signifies the fall.

Until you are translated to a terrestrial state from which Adam fell, (or until you are resurrected), you are only an apprentice.
In the Millennium, after the world is restored from the fall, there will be no aprons.
Also when Zion is redeemed to a terrestrial state, there will be no aprons.

[LDS Physician]

Who is the only person in the temple video wearing an apron?

What does he say that it represents?

Who commands Adam and Eve to make aprons of fig leaves?

Why are we wearing aprons in the temple?

Should we really be wearing aprons which represent Satanic priesthood?


I'm trying to understand why we obey him and don aprons at his suggestion ...

Good questions.

The apron signifies the fall.

Until you are translated to a terrestrial state from which Adam fell, (or until you are resurrected), you are only an apprentice.
In the Millennium, after the world is restored from the fall, there will be no aprons.
Also when Zion is redeemed to a terrestrial state, there will be no aprons.

Then why wear them through the veil into the celestial room?

[Obeone]

Who is the only person in the temple video wearing an apron?

What does he say that it represents?

Who commands Adam and Eve to make aprons of fig leaves?

Why are we wearing aprons in the temple?

Should we really be wearing aprons which represent Satanic priesthood?


I'm trying to understand why we obey him and don aprons at his suggestion ...

Good questions.

The apron signifies the fall.

Until you are translated to a terrestrial state from which Adam fell, (or until you are resurrected), you are only an apprentice.
In the Millennium, after the world is restored from the fall, there will be no aprons.
Also when Zion is redeemed to a terrestrial state, there will be no aprons.

Then why wear them through the veil into the celestial room?

Because you are in a fallen world, and are not translated yet. You are still an apprentice until then.

[LDS Physician]

Who is the only person in the temple video wearing an apron?

What does he say that it represents?

Who commands Adam and Eve to make aprons of fig leaves?

Why are we wearing aprons in the temple?

Should we really be wearing aprons which represent Satanic priesthood?


I'm trying to understand why we obey him and don aprons at his suggestion ...

Good questions.

The apron signifies the fall.

Until you are translated to a terrestrial state from which Adam fell, (or until you are resurrected), you are only an apprentice.
In the Millennium, after the world is restored from the fall, there will be no aprons.
Also when Zion is redeemed to a terrestrial state, there will be no aprons.

Then why wear them through the veil into the celestial room?

Because you are in a fallen world, and are not translated yet. You are still an apprentice until then.

Speak for yourself, lol.

What I mean is ... if we're in the temple doing things that represent our progression through the "levels" or "kingdoms", the final of which is going through the veil to enter the celestial kingdom ... we should take our aprons off at some point.

[Obeone]

Good questions.

The apron signifies the fall.

Until you are translated to a terrestrial state from which Adam fell, (or until you are resurrected), you are only an apprentice.
In the Millennium, after the world is restored from the fall, there will be no aprons.
Also when Zion is redeemed to a terrestrial state, there will be no aprons.

Then why wear them through the veil into the celestial room?

Because you are in a fallen world, and are not translated yet. You are still an apprentice until then.

Speak for yourself, lol.

What I mean is ... if we're in the temple doing things that represent our progression through the "levels" or "kingdoms", the final of which is going through the veil to enter the celestial kingdom ... we should take our aprons off at some point.

I guess the message is: "you are an apprentice for now, but this is your potential..."

[Wondering Wendy]

Good questions.

The apron signifies the fall.

Until you are translated to a terrestrial state from which Adam fell, (or until you are resurrected), you are only an apprentice.
In the Millennium, after the world is restored from the fall, there will be no aprons.
Also when Zion is redeemed to a terrestrial state, there will be no aprons.

Then why wear them through the veil into the celestial room?

Because you are in a fallen world, and are not translated yet. You are still an apprentice until then.

Speak for yourself, lol.

What I mean is ... if we're in the temple doing things that represent our progression through the "levels" or "kingdoms", the final of which is going through the veil to enter the celestial kingdom ... we should take our aprons off at some point.

I agree with this, but my mind keeps coming back to maybe it's just a logistics thing? Like, where does the apron go after it's taken off? People just carry it? Stick it in a giant pocket? LOL I can just see so many aprons being left behind!

[Cruiserdude]

Then why wear them through the veil into the celestial room?

Because you are in a fallen world, and are not translated yet. You are still an apprentice until then.

Speak for yourself, lol.

What I mean is ... if we're in the temple doing things that represent our progression through the "levels" or "kingdoms", the final of which is going through the veil to enter the celestial kingdom ... we should take our aprons off at some point.

I agree with this, but my mind keeps coming back to maybe it's just a logistics thing? Like, where does the apron go after it's taken off? People just carry it? Stick it in a giant pocket? LOL I can just see so many aprons being left behind!

[Shawn Henry]

Freemasonry was not Luciferian at the beginning.

Any system of secrecy is Luciferian from the beginning.

[Shawn Henry]

I think we wear them because it represents the fact that we are sinners and need repentance and Jesus Christ.

But Jesus already tackled that issue, he made them coats of skins to cover their nakedness.

So, how does what Satan was wearing in the garden, an apron, replace what Christ had made for them in the garden?

I know what the endowment says. It says the apron represents the coats of skins, but I see it as the apron is taking the place of the coats of skins. The endowment slyly makes the switch to team Lucifer, representing the entire Nauvoo endowment being slyly switched away from the Kirtland endowment.

The apron represents putting on a false endowment.

[Silver Pie]

I think we wear them because it represents the fact that we are sinners and need repentance and Jesus Christ.

But Jesus already tackled that issue, he made them coats of skins to cover their nakedness.

So, how does what Satan was wearing in the garden, an apron, replace what Christ had made for them in the garden?

I know what the endowment says. It says the apron represents the coats of skins, but I see it as the apron is taking the place of the coats of skins. The endowment slyly makes the switch to team Lucifer, representing the entire Nauvoo endowment being slyly switched away from the Kirtland endowment.

The apron represents putting on a false endowment.

The garment represents the coat of skins, the apron doesn't.

We could really get into some depth here, because you bring up good questions/thoughts.



The following are just thoughts that are coming up as a result of your post.

They put on aprons to cover their nakedness, then God (don't know if it was Jesus, the Father, or both of them) made them actual clothing that would work better than a bunch of leaves. But the apron was put on first (even though in the temple, people are already wearing garments when they go through the endowment).

In fact, the aprons made from leaves could have already been falling apart by the time they faced God. Maybe a representation of how our excuses fall apart when we face God at our own times of judgment.

So, does the apron represent our paltry efforts at hiding our sins from God? Our efforts to redeem ourselves?

Or does it represent the imitations Lucifer offers to us; the fake salvation; the religions of the world. I think that might fit in with your thoughts about it representing a false endowment

[Silver Pie]

So, how does what Satan was wearing in the garden, an apron, replace what Christ had made for them in the garden?

I didn't catch this. Satan/Lucifer is wearing an apron (apparently signifying his false, or dark, priesthoods [I'm not sure which] ), and he shares what he has with them. Not the actual darkness, but an earthly imitation as if trying to initiate them into his rites.

[Shawn Henry]

They put on aprons to cover their nakedness, then God (don't know if it was Jesus, the Father, or both of them) made them actual clothing that would work better than a bunch of leaves. But the apron was put on first (even though in the temple, people are already wearing garments when they go through the endowment).

We know that Lucifer tells them to make aprons out of fig leaves, but they don't seem to have had the time to before they hear the Father's voice. I think, anyway. Then the Father tells Jesus to make coats of skins to cover their nakedness, implying that aprons were never supposed to be in play. This suggests to me that coats of skins was always God's way and the apron was always Lucifer's way.

Am I remember it correctly?

[Silver Pie]

We know that Lucifer tells them to make aprons out of fig leaves, but they don't seem to have had the time to before they hear the Father's voice. I think, anyway. Then the Father tells Jesus to make coats of skins to cover their nakedness, implying that aprons were never supposed to be in play. This suggests to me that coats of skins was always God's way and the apron was always Lucifer's way.

Am I remember it correctly?

That makes a lot of sense. It's obvious that the devil's way was to use fig leaves, and God's way was to use skins (which would give better protection from the elements they were going to be put into, plus would last years instead of hours).

I don't know what the actual time frame was, but hearing the voice of God and running away, only to have God's voice compel them to come forward does seem to indicate that they had no time to make aprons - unless the fig leaves were huge and connected to vines thin enough to tie. Then, they could have grabbed fig leaves and tied it around themselves quickly.

[Thinker]

When you study Gnostisism it becomes rather clear that Freemasonry is a copycat.

Gnostisism is a corrupt form of ancient Christianity - The anti-christian secret Jewish societies tried to destroy Christianity as murdering Christ proved to be not enough. They still hate Christianity as they believe Christ was an impostor and a fraud. They tried to destroy Christianity by creating Gnosticism using fables and some of their own mysticism. And they continue to this day. Freemasons are for the most part useful idiots for more secret anti-christian societies…

It is becoming increasingly apparent that Freemasonry (which Mormon temple endowment etc is based) is “Luciferian.” Like most lower tier lds members, I’d guess most lower tier Freemason members are also clueless about evil in higher places.

How is Freemasonry copying Gnosticism?
I’ve never heard that & if you have any more info explaining that, I’d appreciate it.

Admittedly, I have a lot more to learn, but what I’ve gathered so far is that Rome/Catholicism was the great corruptor of Christianity & Catholic leaders opposed Gnosticism. I disagree with some Gnostic teachings - like discounting the body as evil - yet Jesus kinda did this when he said, “Let the dead bury the dead.” But much of it seemed to be opposite of evil Jewish & Catholic focus on the letter of the law. Gnosticism seems to focus (maybe to a fault) on the Spirit of the law, as Christ did.

My impression is also that Gnosticism preceded Christianity - and that it was the original Christianity which influenced Jesus/Yeshua, along with Buddhism.

“…the late first century and early second century, in which the foundations of Gnostic traditions were laid at the same time that the New Testament was being written…”

I read that Gnostics originally viewed Christ as a Spirit. And indeed, Christ is not Jesus’s/Yeshua’s last name, but what he became & urged us to follow him & become…

According to Gnostic teaching, "To know Christ was not in any sense to have knowledge about the 'historical man of flesh and blood' but rather to be personally related to the mythical heavenly being who liberates humanity from historical concerns" (Lee, p 20).

Some excerpts from the Gnostic work Pistis Sophia (I have read the whole thing at least twice and it is a lot of text):

"Now, therefore, when I shall have explained unto you the whole expansion, I will give you and tell you the great mysteries of the three allotments of my kingdom, that is the heads of the mysteries which I will give you and tell you in all their figures and all their types and in their ciphers and the seals of the last space, that is the first space from without. And I will tell you the answers and the apologies and the tokens of that space.

"The second space which is within, possesseth no answers nor apologies nor tokens nor ciphers nor seals; but it possesseth only types and figures."





CHAPTER 108

It came to pass, when Jesus had finished saying these words unto his disciples, that Mary adored the feet of Jesus and kissed them. Mary said: "My Lord, bear with me, if I question thee, and be not wroth with me."

The Saviour answered and said unto Mary: "Question concerning what thou desirest to question, and I will reveal it |275. unto thee in openness."

And Mary answered and said: "My Lord, suppose a good and excellent brother whom we have filled with all the mysteries of the Light, and that brother hath a brother or kinsman, in a

[p. 230]

word he hath in general [any] man, and this [man] is a sinner and impious or better he is no sinner, and such an one hath gone out of the body, and the heart of the good brother is grieved and mourneth over him, that he is in judgments and chastisements,--now, therefore, my Lord, what are we to do to remove him out of the chastisements and harsh judgments?"

And the Saviour answered and said unto Mary: "Concerning this word, therefore, I have already spoken unto you at another time, but hearken that I may say it again, so that ye may be perfected in all mysteries and be called 'the perfected in every fulness.'

"Now, therefore, all men, sinners or better who are no sinners, not only if ye desire that they be taken out of the judgments and violent chastisements, but that they be removed into a righteous body which will find the mysteries of the godhead, so that it goeth on high and inheriteth the Light-kingdom,--then perform the third mystery of the Ineffable |276. and say: Carry ye the soul of this and this man of whom we think in our hearts, carry him out of all the chastisements of the rulers and haste ye quickly to lead him before the Virgin of Light; and in every month let the Virgin of Light seal him with a higher seal, and in every month let the Virgin of Light cast him into a body which will be righteous and good, so that it goeth on high and inheriteth the Light-kingdom. "And if ye say this, amen, I say unto you: All who serve in all the orders of the judgments of the rulers, hasten to hand over that soul from one to the other, until they lead it before the Virgin of Light. And the Virgin of Light sealeth

[p. 231]

it with the sign of the kingdom of the Ineffable and handeth it over unto her receivers, and the receivers will cast it into a body which will be righteous and find the mysteries of the Light, so that it will be good and goeth on high and inheriteth the Light-kingdom. Lo, this is it on which ye question me."


Pistis Sophia, by G.R.S. Mead, [1921], at sacred-texts.com



CHAPTER 109

And Mary answered and said: "Now, therefore, my Lord, hast thou then not brought mysteries into the world that man |277. may not die through the death which is appointed him by the rulers of the Fate,--be it that it is appointed one to die by the sword or die by the waters or through tortures and torturings and acts of violence which are in the law, or through any other evil death,--hast thou then not brought mysteries into the world that man may not die with them through the rulers of the Fate, but that he may die by a sudden death, so that he endure no sufferings through such kinds of death? For they are exceedingly numerous who persecute us because of thee, and numerous those who persecute us because of thy name, in order that, if they torture us, we may speak the mystery and straightway go out of the body without having endured any sufferings at all."

The Saviour answered and said unto all his disciples: "Concerning this word on which ye question me, I have spoken unto you at another time; but hearken again that I may say it unto you anew: Not only ye, but every man who will accomplish that first mystery of the First Mystery of the Ineffable,--he who, therefore, shall perform that mystery and accomplish it in all its figures and all its types and all its stations, in

[p. 232]

performing it, he will not come out of the body; but after he hath accomplished that mystery in all its figures |278. and all its types, thereafter then at every time when he shall speak the name of that mystery, he will save himself from all that which is appointed him by the rulers of the Fate. And in that hour he will come forth out of the body of the matter of the rulers, and his soul will become a great light-stream, so that it soareth on high and penetrateth all the regions of the rulers and all the regions of the Light, until it reacheth the region of its kingdom. Neither giveth it answers nor apologies in any region at all, for it is without tokens."

Thank you for the quotes, but how does Freemasonry copy from that?
I don’t doubt that Freemasonry copies from Gnosticism among other things, but it seems that Gnosticism would have to be heavily cherry picked considering the differences in how the 2 define God.

Then again Gnosticism defined God as 1) unknown Spirit, & 2) creation as lower …maybe some mis?-interpreted this 2nd lower part of God as Luciferian as high degree Freemasons seem to…



Considering freemasonry in our church, it may not be so strange to have Luciferian/evil symbols on some temples…



Most members are relatively innocent - a perfect deceptive cover for the father of lies. There’s definitely a great need to distinguish good when it’s so mixed with evil.

[abijah]

Any system of secrecy is Luciferian from the beginning.

I'm not so sure. The scriptures describe the Lord as "a God who hides [Himself]". God is very much described as having his own secrets and mysteries that He keeps under lock and key until the proper time and season. Elijah's school of the prophets could probably be construed as a mystery cult (albeit a true one).

The symbolism behind things like the shekhina glory`cloud, the veils in the tabernacle/temple, the seraphim who have wings that mask themselves head to toe etc all speak to this concept of God's nature being simultaneously revealing as well as concealing. Kind of like the purpose of clothing (since this is a topic on aprons): both to cover as well as express.

I suspect the real key here is discovering what the key difference is between holy coversion and satanic coversion, between the 'mysteries of godliness' and 'mystery babylon'. Obviously one's purpose is to bless and the other is to curse, but I think there are potentially lessons to be learned in pondering why God hides Himself and contemplating how He only reveals Himself *in-season* so to speak, and in the proper way, and how this differs from the luciferian method/timing.

[Shawn Henry]

Any system of secrecy is Luciferian from the beginning.

I'm not so sure. The scriptures describe the Lord as "a God who hides [Himself]". God is very much described as having his own secrets and mysteries that He keeps under lock and key until the proper time and season. Elijah's school of the prophets could probably be construed as a mystery cult (albeit a true one).

The symbolism behind things like the shekhina glory`cloud, the veils in the tabernacle/temple, the seraphim who have wings that mask themselves head to toe etc all speak to this concept of God's nature being simultaneously revealing as well as concealing. Kind of like the purpose of clothing (since this is a topic on aprons): both to cover as well as express.

I suspect the real key here is discovering what the key difference is between holy coversion and satanic coversion, between the 'mysteries of godliness' and 'mystery babylon'. Obviously one's purpose is to bless and the other is to curse, but I think there are potentially lessons to be learned in pondering why God hides Himself and contemplating how He only reveals Himself *in-season* so to speak, and in the proper way, and how this differs from the luciferian method/timing.

1 Nephi 20:16 Come ye near unto me; I have not spoken in secret...

God never speaks in secret. His mysteries are open to all in the holy scriptures. One needs the holy spirit to help decode them, of course, but that process is open to all and all are invited from the very first time they read the word.

[Mindfields]

The apron is no more than an article of clothing worn in a Masonic ceremony. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So who gives a shiz what it represents unless your a Mason I suppose.

[Shawn Henry]

The apron is no more than an article of clothing worn in a Masonic ceremony. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So who gives a shiz what it represents unless your a Mason I suppose.

For me it matters, simply for the sake of knowing how and where we went wrong and being able to articulate it back to someone. It's the transition from someone who was deceived to someone who can teach others how it is a deception.

It will not do to simply say it is Masonic, but if you can show with reason that God gave us a coat of skins and the adversary gave us an apron, then one is endowed with the power to lift others out of their deception.

[abijah]

The apron is no more than an article of clothing worn in a Masonic ceremony. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So who gives a shiz what it represents unless your a Mason I suppose.

I get your line of thinking here and probably would've agreed not that long ago but now I'm less sure.

The idea that each clandestine belief system, whether it be freemasonry or whoever, just sort of 'make up' their own symbols and ascribe their own arbitrary meaning to it isn't really how it happens imo.

There is a universal symbolic language, one that is objective and common. God has already struck his patterns and cycles, and the only way Babel-like mystery religions (stonemasons trying to build their own way/name into heaven) are able to siphon-off any real power is by *twisting* those symbols and inverting the meaning behind them.

So the idea that masons just sort of *invented* ritualised apronage, and that their meaning behind the symbol (even w/in their own framework) is totally sectioned off seems a lot less likely to me. Look at how Moses and Aaron have their magic battles with Pharaoh and his enchanters -- in some sense they clearly seem to be playing by the same rulebook - 'the rules of the game', so to speak, rather than utterly disjointed cultic systems. "Playing with the big boys now" indeed.

The basis of these things is universal, and ultimately these people are just copying God anyway, trying to counterfeit/subvert the original truths that were already always there. While their accent may be disgusting, the underlying symbolic syntax is still similar enough.