LDS Freedom Forum

Alexander wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 1:01 pm Nothing from the text indicates the bridegroom is marrying the virgins.

To focus on if it is promoting polygamy (which it isn’t) distracts us from the intent and meaning of the parable.

Parthenos

Virgin Greek Goddess….. hmm

I’m sure you know more!

Why did the Greeks think the bride’s maids were worthy of the word that described their “traditional religion” Goddess?

A common practice of preparing a wick for an oil burning lantern is to fully immerse the wick in the desired oil you plan on using, for an hour. Similar to baptism, fully immerse and say the baptismal prayer.

The wick is then installed and trimmed into the lamp and the lamp is then filled with oil. A lamp will burn 2-8 hours depending on the size and design of the lamp.

Matthew 25
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

After the baptism, we then lay on of hands and baptize them with the gift of the Holy Ghost, the highest dropout in the church is right after this. They know no one but the missionaries and it’s time for the missionaries to move on.

James 2
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Without works the lamp goes out.

I like this take from Awake and Arise. 36 mins.

Wondering Wendy wrote: ↑September 23rd, 2023, 8:51 am I like this take from Awake and Arise. 36 mins.

I don’t have any bandwidth, camping on the coast. Maybe this video agrees with what I say, I don’t know. I don’t post videos about gospel doctrine.


I made this post for us to think about this parable, to ponder and ask the lord the meaning of his words and to find our own witness.

Not to borrow someone else’s opinion. Are we putting any real thought and effort into it(how the lord works) or we just liking something that fits our emotional reasoning (how the devil works)

The lord wants effort into our sacrifice. Our sacrifice isn’t the shedding of innocent blood of a lamb anymore, it’s our time, effort and sometimes sweat.

Jeremiah 23
16 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.

Is Jeremiah 23 about today or Jeremiah’s day?

6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.
7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
8 But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

We are part of the house of Israel that has been brought out of the north countries. If we believe Joseph Smith, there will be more. Ice bridge from the north.


“ and not out of the mouth of the Lord.”

Let’s ask to learn out of the mouth of the lord.

Anyone here ever use one of those old lamps? I personally think the point of the story has been lost in alot of pontificating, little actual truth, and whole lot of self righteousness. Anyhow, you can make a lamp pretty easy with a potato, all cotton twine, and olive oil. All sorts of things make sense when you use one...trimming the wick, using the oil, and suchlike.

As to the point of the parable, it states it upfront and simply. Anyhow, my two cents...

marc wrote: ↑February 17th, 2023, 11:27 am The oil in their lamps is the Holy Ghost. It is what gives light/fire. It was at Gethsemane (oil press) where Jesus' body was pressed that anoints us with His atoning blood.

D&C 45:56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.

57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

When Christ returns in glory, those who haven't been baptized with fire will be consumed and burned as stubble. Those who have been baptized with fire will add to His glorious flame that will burn the Earth as an oven.

light is defined as Torah in the scriptures.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/

I believe the 5 wise virgins are those who keep all 10 commandments, in how to love YHWH His way and how to love our neighbors, and the 5 foolish virgins are those who only keep the 5 about how to love others. https://seekingyhwh.org/torah/

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑February 17th, 2023, 11:34 am Speaking of virgins... how does this apply to polygamy?








That was for you Pazooka!

I'm looking for 9 more.

Wondering Wendy wrote: ↑September 23rd, 2023, 8:51 am I like this take from Awake and Arise. 36 mins.

This was good as usual. I often receive inspiration listening/contemplating A&A.

SJR3t2 wrote: ↑September 25th, 2023, 9:20 pm

marc wrote: ↑February 17th, 2023, 11:27 am The oil in their lamps is the Holy Ghost. It is what gives light/fire. It was at Gethsemane (oil press) where Jesus' body was pressed that anoints us with His atoning blood.

D&C 45:56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.

57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

When Christ returns in glory, those who haven't been baptized with fire will be consumed and burned as stubble. Those who have been baptized with fire will add to His glorious flame that will burn the Earth as an oven.

light is defined as Torah in the scriptures.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/

I believe the 5 wise virgins are those who keep all 10 commandments, in how to love YHWH His way and how to love our neighbors, and the 5 foolish virgins are those who only keep the 5 about how to love others. https://seekingyhwh.org/torah/

I think it's more.

The bridegroom is the Lord, and the wedding is the meeting of heaven and earth. The Lord marries the bride, Zion. We are supposed to become one with Jesus just as He is one with the Father. Zion is about oneness, one jersey and mind fully obeying all the commandments of the Lord (especially the first and second great commandments upon which all others hang).

10 denotes all people, and the even division means that there are two ways akin to the two trees in the garden, only two churches, etc.

The lamps are the outward vessel. It's meaning includes what we manifest into the world, fruits, etc.

The oil is the Spirit of Truth. It's what we contain internally. Are we full of truth and light? Are we full of Charity? Without these things we have no good fruits, we don't fulfill the measure of our creation to image God. With truth and light we can act in hope with faith under the proper motivation of love.

For starters...

Luke wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 3:52 pm

Alexander wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 1:01 pm Nothing from the text indicates the bridegroom is marrying the virgins.

Are we the bride of Christ or are we not?

We are the virgins in the parable.

No it's all people both wise and foolish. Either making a covenant with death (Babylon, tree off knowledge of G&E, etc) or those who covenant with the Son of the Man of Holiness & Counsel.

The bride is Zion where we are to be of one heart and mind. The parable is given as a wedding scene as a nod to the Garden (a plane where heaven and earth meet) where in marriage we are to cleave to one another and become one.

Thinking this is about polygamy is an awful perversion.

ransomme wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 12:08 pm

Luke wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 3:52 pm

Alexander wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 1:01 pm Nothing from the text indicates the bridegroom is marrying the virgins.

Are we the bride of Christ or are we not?

We are the virgins in the parable.

No it's all people both wise and foolish. Either making a covenant with death (Babylon, tree off knowledge of G&E, etc) or those who covenant with the Son of the Man of Holiness & Counsel.

The bride is Zion where we are to be of one heart and mind. The parable is given as a wedding scene as a nod to the Garden (a plane where heaven and earth meet) where in marriage we are to cleave to one another and become one.

Thinking this is about polygamy is an awful perversion.

For the last time—I never said it was about polygamy. What I said is that a polygamous marriage was used as the symbolism in the parable—which Jesus wouldn’t have done if polygamy was some sort of sick abomination.

Luke wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 2:47 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 12:08 pm

Luke wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 3:52 pm

Are we the bride of Christ or are we not?

We are the virgins in the parable.

No it's all people both wise and foolish. Either making a covenant with death (Babylon, tree off knowledge of G&E, etc) or those who covenant with the Son of the Man of Holiness & Counsel.

The bride is Zion where we are to be of one heart and mind. The parable is given as a wedding scene as a nod to the Garden (a plane where heaven and earth meet) where in marriage we are to cleave to one another and become one.

Thinking this is about polygamy is an awful perversion.

For the last time—I never said it was about polygamy. What I said is that a polygamous marriage was used as the symbolism in the parable—which Jesus wouldn’t have done if polygamy was some sort of sick abomination.

The 10 virgins are not 10 brides. The bride is waiting at the house. The 10 virgins are bridesmaids who watch for the bridegroom, to greet Him, and bring Him to the bride.

Have ye not read, that He that made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this cause shall a man leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh’? Therefore they are no more two, but one flesh... - (Matthew 19:4-6)

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of Man cometh. - (Matthew 25:13)


What are they watching for? the marriage of the Lamb and His bride.

Let us be glad and rejoice and give honor to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.” And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white; for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he said unto me, “Write: ‘Blessed are they that are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.’" And he said unto me, “These are the true sayings of God.” - (Revelation 19:7-9)

ransomme wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 3:39 pm

Luke wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 2:47 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 12:08 pm

No it's all people both wise and foolish. Either making a covenant with death (Babylon, tree off knowledge of G&E, etc) or those who covenant with the Son of the Man of Holiness & Counsel.

The bride is Zion where we are to be of one heart and mind. The parable is given as a wedding scene as a nod to the Garden (a plane where heaven and earth meet) where in marriage we are to cleave to one another and become one.

Thinking this is about polygamy is an awful perversion.

For the last time—I never said it was about polygamy. What I said is that a polygamous marriage was used as the symbolism in the parable—which Jesus wouldn’t have done if polygamy was some sort of sick abomination.

The 10 virgins are not 10 brides. The bride is waiting at the house. The 10 virgins are bridesmaids who watch for the bridegroom, to greet Him, and bring Him to the bride.

Have ye not read, that He that made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this cause shall a man leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh’? Therefore they are no more two, but one flesh... - (Matthew 19:4-6)

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of Man cometh. - (Matthew 25:13)


What are they watching for? the marriage of the Lamb and His bride.

Let us be glad and rejoice and give honor to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.” And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white; for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he said unto me, “Write: ‘Blessed are they that are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.’" And he said unto me, “These are the true sayings of God.” - (Revelation 19:7-9)

Excellent find, those verses fit in well with this parable.

“for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints”

One can read, the bride is the saints, the 5 virgins out of the 10 that were baptized by fire.

Edit

Or… she is the church and we need to bow down to the prophet lol

Who is the bride, we know with a surety that the bridegroom is the lamb and the lamb is Jesus.

We also know the the church is within us so the bride isn’t a physical church.


Hmmmm

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 5:09 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 3:39 pm

Luke wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 2:47 pm

For the last time—I never said it was about polygamy. What I said is that a polygamous marriage was used as the symbolism in the parable—which Jesus wouldn’t have done if polygamy was some sort of sick abomination.

The 10 virgins are not 10 brides. The bride is waiting at the house. The 10 virgins are bridesmaids who watch for the bridegroom, to greet Him, and bring Him to the bride.

Have ye not read, that He that made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this cause shall a man leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh’? Therefore they are no more two, but one flesh... - (Matthew 19:4-6)

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of Man cometh. - (Matthew 25:13)


What are they watching for? the marriage of the Lamb and His bride.

Let us be glad and rejoice and give honor to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.” And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white; for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he said unto me, “Write: ‘Blessed are they that are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.’" And he said unto me, “These are the true sayings of God.” - (Revelation 19:7-9)

Excellent find, those verses fit in well with this parable.

“for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints”

One can read, the bride is the saints, the 5 virgins out of the 10 that were baptized by fire.

Edit

Or… she is the church and we need to bow down to the prophet lol

Who is the bride, we know with a surety that the bridegroom is the lamb and the lamb is Jesus.

We also know the the church is within us so the bride isn’t a physical church.


Hmmmm

Revelation 7
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, “Who are these that are arrayed in white robes, and from whence have they come?”

14 And I said unto him, “Sir, thou knowest.” And he said to me, “These are they that came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

ransomme wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 5:40 pm

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 5:09 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 3:39 pm

The 10 virgins are not 10 brides. The bride is waiting at the house. The 10 virgins are bridesmaids who watch for the bridegroom, to greet Him, and bring Him to the bride.

Have ye not read, that He that made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this cause shall a man leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh’? Therefore they are no more two, but one flesh... - (Matthew 19:4-6)

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of Man cometh. - (Matthew 25:13)


What are they watching for? the marriage of the Lamb and His bride.

Let us be glad and rejoice and give honor to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.” And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white; for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he said unto me, “Write: ‘Blessed are they that are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.’" And he said unto me, “These are the true sayings of God.” - (Revelation 19:7-9)

Excellent find, those verses fit in well with this parable.

“for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints”

One can read, the bride is the saints, the 5 virgins out of the 10 that were baptized by fire.

Edit

Or… she is the church and we need to bow down to the prophet lol

Who is the bride, we know with a surety that the bridegroom is the lamb and the lamb is Jesus.

We also know the the church is within us so the bride isn’t a physical church.


Hmmmm

Revelation 7
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, “Who are these that are arrayed in white robes, and from whence have they come?”

14 And I said unto him, “Sir, thou knowest.” And he said to me, “These are they that came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Rev 7
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Yes, his saints.

ransomme wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 12:00 pm

SJR3t2 wrote: ↑September 25th, 2023, 9:20 pm

marc wrote: ↑February 17th, 2023, 11:27 am The oil in their lamps is the Holy Ghost. It is what gives light/fire. It was at Gethsemane (oil press) where Jesus' body was pressed that anoints us with His atoning blood.

D&C 45:56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.

57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

When Christ returns in glory, those who haven't been baptized with fire will be consumed and burned as stubble. Those who have been baptized with fire will add to His glorious flame that will burn the Earth as an oven.

light is defined as Torah in the scriptures.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/

I believe the 5 wise virgins are those who keep all 10 commandments, in how to love YHWH His way and how to love our neighbors, and the 5 foolish virgins are those who only keep the 5 about how to love others. https://seekingyhwh.org/torah/

I think it's more.

The bridegroom is the Lord, and the wedding is the meeting of heaven and earth. The Lord marries the bride, Zion. We are supposed to become one with Jesus just as He is one with the Father. Zion is about oneness, one jersey and mind fully obeying all the commandments of the Lord (especially the first and second great commandments upon which all others hang).

10 denotes all people, and the even division means that there are two ways akin to the two trees in the garden, only two churches, etc.

The lamps are the outward vessel. It's meaning includes what we manifest into the world, fruits, etc.

The oil is the Spirit of Truth. It's what we contain internally. Are we full of truth and light? Are we full of Charity? Without these things we have no good fruits, we don't fulfill the measure of our creation to image God. With truth and light we can act in hope with faith under the proper motivation of love.

For starters...

I believe it's more than I stated also. To be honest I see degrees of glory in it also. One can't go into the Holy of Holy with sins.

Disagree with 10 denoting all people, as virgins are very different than whores. I see the division of the 2 5 diffently.

Our light that shines is the Torah we keep. https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/

The Spirit of Truth is Torah. How scriptures, galations 5 and Moroni 7, define charity is a list of commandments of Torah. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgUl1lc ... n&index=35 Torah is what is used to define what is good and bad.

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 5:09 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 3:39 pm

Luke wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 2:47 pm

For the last time—I never said it was about polygamy. What I said is that a polygamous marriage was used as the symbolism in the parable—which Jesus wouldn’t have done if polygamy was some sort of sick abomination.

The 10 virgins are not 10 brides. The bride is waiting at the house. The 10 virgins are bridesmaids who watch for the bridegroom, to greet Him, and bring Him to the bride.

Have ye not read, that He that made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this cause shall a man leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh’? Therefore they are no more two, but one flesh... - (Matthew 19:4-6)

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of Man cometh. - (Matthew 25:13)


What are they watching for? the marriage of the Lamb and His bride.

Let us be glad and rejoice and give honor to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.” And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white; for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he said unto me, “Write: ‘Blessed are they that are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.’" And he said unto me, “These are the true sayings of God.” - (Revelation 19:7-9)

Excellent find, those verses fit in well with this parable.

“for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints”

One can read, the bride is the saints, the 5 virgins out of the 10 that were baptized by fire.

Edit

Or… she is the church and we need to bow down to the prophet lol

Who is the bride, we know with a surety that the bridegroom is the lamb and the lamb is Jesus.

We also know the the church is within us so the bride isn’t a physical church.


Hmmmm

I believe with all 10 are virgins all have received the baptism of fire [justification] but only 5 received their baptism of the holy spirit [sanctification]

As I see it every part of the Doctrine of Christ [the Messiah] is connected to His law / Torah.
A Repenting and returning to the law / Torah.
-B Baptism of water is a witness of covenant already made to keep all of His law / Torah.
-B Baptism of fire is a witness you have been judged and found with a broken heart and a contrite spirit and you are then cleansed of your past sins and have been justified by the law / Torah because of Yeshua’s merits.
A Baptism of the Holy Spirit is sanctification by the law / Torah and have it written on your heart and you seek to sin no more and have the express image of Yeshua in your countenance.
Sometimes the Doctrine of Christ [the Messiah] includes enduring to the end which is keeping the commandments to the end of your life even when the world will judge you negatively for doing so. Other times it will include speaking with the tongue of angels which is simply preaching and teaching the law / Torah and calling people to repentance which is telling them to return to YHWH’s law / Torah.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/

SJR3t2 wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 11:10 pm

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 5:09 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 3:39 pm

The 10 virgins are not 10 brides. The bride is waiting at the house. The 10 virgins are bridesmaids who watch for the bridegroom, to greet Him, and bring Him to the bride.

Have ye not read, that He that made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this cause shall a man leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh’? Therefore they are no more two, but one flesh... - (Matthew 19:4-6)

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of Man cometh. - (Matthew 25:13)


What are they watching for? the marriage of the Lamb and His bride.

Let us be glad and rejoice and give honor to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.” And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white; for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he said unto me, “Write: ‘Blessed are they that are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.’" And he said unto me, “These are the true sayings of God.” - (Revelation 19:7-9)

Excellent find, those verses fit in well with this parable.

“for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints”

One can read, the bride is the saints, the 5 virgins out of the 10 that were baptized by fire.

Edit

Or… she is the church and we need to bow down to the prophet lol

Who is the bride, we know with a surety that the bridegroom is the lamb and the lamb is Jesus.

We also know the the church is within us so the bride isn’t a physical church.


Hmmmm

I believe with all 10 are virgins all have received the baptism of fire [justification] but only 5 received their baptism of the holy spirit [sanctification]

As I see it every part of the Doctrine of Christ [the Messiah] is connected to His law / Torah.
A Repenting and returning to the law / Torah.
-B Baptism of water is a witness of covenant already made to keep all of His law / Torah.
-B Baptism of fire is a witness you have been judged and found with a broken heart and a contrite spirit and you are then cleansed of your past sins and have been justified by the law / Torah because of Yeshua’s merits.
A Baptism of the Holy Spirit is sanctification by the law / Torah and have it written on your heart and you seek to sin no more and have the express image of Yeshua in your countenance.
Sometimes the Doctrine of Christ [the Messiah] includes enduring to the end which is keeping the commandments to the end of your life even when the world will judge you negatively for doing so. Other times it will include speaking with the tongue of angels which is simply preaching and teaching the law / Torah and calling people to repentance which is telling them to return to YHWH’s law / Torah.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/

I don't disagree. I would suggest not referring to Torah as the law though. IMO that is too narrow a meaning. Torah is the instruction, guidance that God gives us. It's His counsel, and commandments. We could call it the Way.

The Hebrew word torah literally means direction or instruction. The root, yod-resh-hey (ירה), originally likely meant to throw or shoot an arrow. The noun torah is rendered in a causative conjugation, which is just a way of saying that it literally means to cause something (or someone) to move straight and true. (Myjewishlearning.com)

And I think it's also important to point out how to get the oil. I think that these verses tie things together nicely, including repentance, Torah, Zion, etc.

1 John 2
1 ...But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous One,
2 and he himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the whole world.
3 Now by this we know that we have come to know God: if we keep his commandments.
4 The one who says "I have come to know God" and yet does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in such a person.
5 But whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has been perfected. By this we know that we are in him.
6 The one who says he resides in God ought himself to walk just as Jesus walked

SJR3t2 wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 11:10 pm

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 5:09 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 3:39 pm

The 10 virgins are not 10 brides. The bride is waiting at the house. The 10 virgins are bridesmaids who watch for the bridegroom, to greet Him, and bring Him to the bride.

Have ye not read, that He that made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this cause shall a man leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh’? Therefore they are no more two, but one flesh... - (Matthew 19:4-6)

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of Man cometh. - (Matthew 25:13)


What are they watching for? the marriage of the Lamb and His bride.

Let us be glad and rejoice and give honor to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.” And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white; for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he said unto me, “Write: ‘Blessed are they that are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.’" And he said unto me, “These are the true sayings of God.” - (Revelation 19:7-9)

Excellent find, those verses fit in well with this parable.

“for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints”

One can read, the bride is the saints, the 5 virgins out of the 10 that were baptized by fire.

Edit

Or… she is the church and we need to bow down to the prophet lol

Who is the bride, we know with a surety that the bridegroom is the lamb and the lamb is Jesus.

We also know the the church is within us so the bride isn’t a physical church.


Hmmmm

I believe with all 10 are virgins all have received the baptism of fire [justification] but only 5 received their baptism of the holy spirit [sanctification]

As I see it every part of the Doctrine of Christ [the Messiah] is connected to His law / Torah.
A Repenting and returning to the law / Torah.
-B Baptism of water is a witness of covenant already made to keep all of His law / Torah.
-B Baptism of fire is a witness you have been judged and found with a broken heart and a contrite spirit and you are then cleansed of your past sins and have been justified by the law / Torah because of Yeshua’s merits.
A Baptism of the Holy Spirit is sanctification by the law / Torah and have it written on your heart and you seek to sin no more and have the express image of Yeshua in your countenance.
Sometimes the Doctrine of Christ [the Messiah] includes enduring to the end which is keeping the commandments to the end of your life even when the world will judge you negatively for doing so. Other times it will include speaking with the tongue of angels which is simply preaching and teaching the law / Torah and calling people to repentance which is telling them to return to YHWH’s law / Torah.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/

And what about, the base oil in the lamp being the light of Christ...

SJR3t2 wrote: ↑September 25th, 2023, 9:20 pm

marc wrote: ↑February 17th, 2023, 11:27 am The oil in their lamps is the Holy Ghost. It is what gives light/fire. It was at Gethsemane (oil press) where Jesus' body was pressed that anoints us with His atoning blood.

D&C 45:56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.

57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

When Christ returns in glory, those who haven't been baptized with fire will be consumed and burned as stubble. Those who have been baptized with fire will add to His glorious flame that will burn the Earth as an oven.

light is defined as Torah in the scriptures.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/

I believe the 5 wise virgins are those who keep all 10 commandments, in how to love YHWH His way and how to love our neighbors, and the 5 foolish virgins are those who only keep the 5 about how to love others. https://seekingyhwh.org/torah/

I believe the 5 wise virgins are those who keep all 10 commandments, in how to love YHWH His way and how to love our neighbors, and the 5 foolish virgins are those who only keep the 5 about how to love others.

I can see this being part of the fulfillment
what an observation

Cruiserdude wrote: ↑September 27th, 2023, 6:13 am

SJR3t2 wrote: ↑September 25th, 2023, 9:20 pm

marc wrote: ↑February 17th, 2023, 11:27 am The oil in their lamps is the Holy Ghost. It is what gives light/fire. It was at Gethsemane (oil press) where Jesus' body was pressed that anoints us with His atoning blood.

D&C 45:56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.

57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

When Christ returns in glory, those who haven't been baptized with fire will be consumed and burned as stubble. Those who have been baptized with fire will add to His glorious flame that will burn the Earth as an oven.

light is defined as Torah in the scriptures.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/

I believe the 5 wise virgins are those who keep all 10 commandments, in how to love YHWH His way and how to love our neighbors, and the 5 foolish virgins are those who only keep the 5 about how to love others. https://seekingyhwh.org/torah/

I believe the 5 wise virgins are those who keep all 10 commandments, in how to love YHWH His way and how to love our neighbors, and the 5 foolish virgins are those who only keep the 5 about how to love others.

I can see this being part of the fulfillment
what an observation

One thing I don't like about likening the wise/foolish virgins to the 10 commandments is that there are no 10 commandments. It's more like 14 commands in 10 statements.

ransomme wrote: ↑September 27th, 2023, 12:23 pm

Cruiserdude wrote: ↑September 27th, 2023, 6:13 am

SJR3t2 wrote: ↑September 25th, 2023, 9:20 pm

light is defined as Torah in the scriptures.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/

I believe the 5 wise virgins are those who keep all 10 commandments, in how to love YHWH His way and how to love our neighbors, and the 5 foolish virgins are those who only keep the 5 about how to love others. https://seekingyhwh.org/torah/

I believe the 5 wise virgins are those who keep all 10 commandments, in how to love YHWH His way and how to love our neighbors, and the 5 foolish virgins are those who only keep the 5 about how to love others.

I can see this being part of the fulfillment
what an observation

One thing I don't like about likening the wise/foolish virgins to the 10 commandments is that there are no 10 commandments. It's more like 14 commands in 10 statements.

Totally understand. I'm not a 'letter of the law' kinda guy. By nature, I'm a 'spirit of the law' type. And I truly believe that all the commandments are kept when we honestly keep the two commandments the Lord told us to keep, love God and love your fellow men.
But the principle behind what SJR3t2 stated is more what I refer to, that the foolish ones only kept half the commands(love neighbor) and the wise ones kept both, or all, of the Lord's commands..... For me, it's not about the number of the commands. Maybe that explains what I'm trying to say, lol. These kinds of things can be hard to put words to for me.
I appreciate that what he shared helped me see the parable in a little different light.

ransomme wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 12:08 pm

Luke wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 3:52 pm

Alexander wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 1:01 pm Nothing from the text indicates the bridegroom is marrying the virgins.

Are we the bride of Christ or are we not?

We are the virgins in the parable.

No it's all people both wise and foolish. Either making a covenant with death (Babylon, tree off knowledge of G&E, etc) or those who covenant with the Son of the Man of Holiness & Counsel.

The bride is Zion where we are to be of one heart and mind. The parable is given as a wedding scene as a nod to the Garden (a plane where heaven and earth meet) where in marriage we are to cleave to one another and become one.

Thinking this is about polygamy is an awful perversion.

Agreed:
1) Joseph Smith was a liar, criminal, and a "Minor Attracked Person"... IF he was a polygamist - the founder and prophet who restored the "church"... I don't believe it, based on the evidence presented by Denver Snuffer, Reluctant Wathman, Rob Fotheringham and others - weird how members and the brethren agree with the anti-mormon community on this!
2) Ther "Most correct book on the Earth" as stated by J.S., absolutely condemns polygammy. GAME OVER
3) Did not the Book of Mormon come from Christ, ultimately? Isn't it his teachings and words? So, you're saying that the Parable of the 10 virgins is Christ teaching polygammy, while his teaching and words in the Book of Mormon, and directly from JS, are ardently opposed to the practice. Really?? How can anyone defend that point of view??
4) and last, polygammy treats women as lesser persons; which is hardly the loving kind savior I know, and certainly NOT what he taught. The book of mormon talks about "hurting their tender hearts" with the practice of polygammy.

2 Choices:
1st - church founded by lying, criminal, hypocritical prophet
2nd - church founded by prophet who was not a polygamist. You can wiggle and try and squirm away from this all you want, but there it is. Deal with it

ransomme wrote: ↑September 27th, 2023, 4:54 am

SJR3t2 wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 11:10 pm

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 5:09 pm

Excellent find, those verses fit in well with this parable.

“for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints”

One can read, the bride is the saints, the 5 virgins out of the 10 that were baptized by fire.

Edit

Or… she is the church and we need to bow down to the prophet lol

Who is the bride, we know with a surety that the bridegroom is the lamb and the lamb is Jesus.

We also know the the church is within us so the bride isn’t a physical church.


Hmmmm

I believe with all 10 are virgins all have received the baptism of fire [justification] but only 5 received their baptism of the holy spirit [sanctification]

As I see it every part of the Doctrine of Christ [the Messiah] is connected to His law / Torah.
A Repenting and returning to the law / Torah.
-B Baptism of water is a witness of covenant already made to keep all of His law / Torah.
-B Baptism of fire is a witness you have been judged and found with a broken heart and a contrite spirit and you are then cleansed of your past sins and have been justified by the law / Torah because of Yeshua’s merits.
A Baptism of the Holy Spirit is sanctification by the law / Torah and have it written on your heart and you seek to sin no more and have the express image of Yeshua in your countenance.
Sometimes the Doctrine of Christ [the Messiah] includes enduring to the end which is keeping the commandments to the end of your life even when the world will judge you negatively for doing so. Other times it will include speaking with the tongue of angels which is simply preaching and teaching the law / Torah and calling people to repentance which is telling them to return to YHWH’s law / Torah.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/

I don't disagree. I would suggest not referring to Torah as the law though. IMO that is too narrow a meaning. Torah is the instruction, guidance that God gives us. It's His counsel, and commandments. We could call it the Way.

The Hebrew word torah literally means direction or instruction. The root, yod-resh-hey (ירה), originally likely meant to throw or shoot an arrow. The noun torah is rendered in a causative conjugation, which is just a way of saying that it literally means to cause something (or someone) to move straight and true. (Myjewishlearning.com)

And I think it's also important to point out how to get the oil. I think that these verses tie things together nicely, including repentance, Torah, Zion, etc.

1 John 2
1 ...But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous One,
2 and he himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the whole world.
3 Now by this we know that we have come to know God: if we keep his commandments.
4 The one who says "I have come to know God" and yet does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in such a person.
5 But whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has been perfected. By this we know that we are in him.
6 The one who says he resides in God ought himself to walk just as Jesus walked

It is instruction, but it is also the law. In my mind it's the same thing. In English translations of the Bible it's translated as law, in the Jewish translations it's translated as instructions. I say it's all the words of YHWH that is eternal.

ransomme wrote: ↑September 27th, 2023, 5:09 am

SJR3t2 wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 11:10 pm

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 5:09 pm

Excellent find, those verses fit in well with this parable.

“for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints”

One can read, the bride is the saints, the 5 virgins out of the 10 that were baptized by fire.

Edit

Or… she is the church and we need to bow down to the prophet lol

Who is the bride, we know with a surety that the bridegroom is the lamb and the lamb is Jesus.

We also know the the church is within us so the bride isn’t a physical church.


Hmmmm

I believe with all 10 are virgins all have received the baptism of fire [justification] but only 5 received their baptism of the holy spirit [sanctification]

As I see it every part of the Doctrine of Christ [the Messiah] is connected to His law / Torah.
A Repenting and returning to the law / Torah.
-B Baptism of water is a witness of covenant already made to keep all of His law / Torah.
-B Baptism of fire is a witness you have been judged and found with a broken heart and a contrite spirit and you are then cleansed of your past sins and have been justified by the law / Torah because of Yeshua’s merits.
A Baptism of the Holy Spirit is sanctification by the law / Torah and have it written on your heart and you seek to sin no more and have the express image of Yeshua in your countenance.
Sometimes the Doctrine of Christ [the Messiah] includes enduring to the end which is keeping the commandments to the end of your life even when the world will judge you negatively for doing so. Other times it will include speaking with the tongue of angels which is simply preaching and teaching the law / Torah and calling people to repentance which is telling them to return to YHWH’s law / Torah.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/

And what about, the base oil in the lamp being the light of Christ...

The light of Yeshua is Torah. OT defines the light as Torah. https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/ Yeshua has light because He kept Torah.