United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

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Ebenezer
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

Post by Ebenezer »

Sub, where is the line in the sand for you?

(I'm asking sincerely)

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Robin Hood
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

Post by Robin Hood »

The Red Pill wrote: February 7th, 2023, 7:30 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 5:12 pm
tribrac wrote: February 6th, 2023, 2:25 pm Good Global Citizens believe in being subject to Presidents, Kings, Magistrates and unelected global leaders
This piece in the LDS Newsroom is interesting. They cite the offense of committing polygamy as worthy of ex-communication, but they don‘t cite revelation as the reason for the change, but due to our need to follow the laws of the land. A slippery slope IMO:

"If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church. An article of our faith is binding upon us. It states, 'We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law' (Articles of Faith 1:12).”

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... s%20Church
The Church is blatantly LYING in this newsroom article...it states:

"In 1831, Church founder Joseph Smith made a prayerful inquiry about the ancient Old Testament practice of plural marriage. This resulted in the divine instruction to reinstitute the practice as a religious principle."

Joseph DID NOT do this nor believe this. The 1835 and 1844 editions of the D&C had section 101, which CONDEMS polygamy and clearly states Monogamy is the Lord's proper way. Joseph, Hyrum and Emma were fighting AGAINST polygamy. Even Brigham and his manufactured section 132 didn't have Joseph receiving "revelation" on the subject until 1843.

The church just pulls crap out of thin air and writes it down...disgusting.
The reason they claim this is to try to mitigate against the Fanny Alger story.
The truth is there is no real evidence anything transpired between Joseph and Fanny. But because the church relies on anti-Mormons and apostates to "prove" Joseph was a polygamist, they have to have the narrative commence very early on, because the same sources make the claim about Fanny.

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Subcomandante
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

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Ebenezer wrote: February 7th, 2023, 8:16 am Sub, where is the line in the sand for you?

(I'm asking sincerely)
The line in the sand that you guys constantly ask for will never be crossed by the church.

And no, because same sex marriage is legal in a country does NOT mean that religious organizations will be obligated to marry people of the same sex.

Again, I double dog dare the UN to try to enforce LGBT rights in Saudi Arabia and Iran...they won't even allow rainbow-colored items within their countries!!! If someone confesses to being LGBT there they are killed.

Christianlee
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

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Subcomandante wrote: February 7th, 2023, 9:50 am
Ebenezer wrote: February 7th, 2023, 8:16 am Sub, where is the line in the sand for you?

(I'm asking sincerely)
The line in the sand that you guys constantly ask for will never be crossed by the church.

And no, because same sex marriage is legal in a country does NOT mean that religious organizations will be obligated to marry people of the same sex.

Again, I double dog dare the UN to try to enforce LGBT rights in Saudi Arabia and Iran...they won't even allow rainbow-colored items within their countries!!! If someone confesses to being LGBT there they are killed.
Western governments will comply. That is all that matters to us.

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Thinker
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

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Robin Hood wrote: February 7th, 2023, 8:11 am...However, it will be noticed that the alphabet people are still being discriminated against within the rituals and sacraments of the church, and that is when the fan and the brown stuff will come into contact.
🤣Alphabet people! 😂

I was thinking how psychological operations including homosexual bs, is about making people weak. Nobody can handle anything… from being sue-happy, to keeping a dog with you everywhere you go for “emotional support.” When the yucky brown stuff finally hits the fans, what will people like that do?

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Thinker
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

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Subcomandante wrote: February 7th, 2023, 9:50 am The line in the sand that you guys constantly ask for will never be crossed by the church.
Sounds like you see the church as an infallible god. I used to see it similarly.

Hey, by any chance did/do you post on Mormon Discussion/Disvuss Mormonism Forum as “SubGenius”?
Last edited by Thinker on February 7th, 2023, 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Subcomandante
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

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Thinker wrote: February 7th, 2023, 11:01 am
Subcomandante wrote: February 7th, 2023, 9:50 am The line in the sand that you guys constantly ask for will never be crossed by the church.
Sounds like you see the church as an infallible god. I used to see it similarly.

Hey, by any chance did/do you post on Mormon Discussion Forum as “SubGenius”?
Never heard of that forum.

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Thinker
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

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Subcomandante wrote: February 7th, 2023, 11:02 am
Thinker wrote: February 7th, 2023, 11:01 am
Subcomandante wrote: February 7th, 2023, 9:50 am The line in the sand that you guys constantly ask for will never be crossed by the church.
Sounds like you see the church as an infallible god. I used to see it similarly.

Hey, by any chance did/do you post on Mormon Discussion Forum as “SubGenius”?
Never heard of that forum.
Good to know. You both have some similarities but he jokes more. I haven’t gone on that forum for a while. Looks like a more sane BeNotDeceived posts there.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Subcomandante wrote: February 7th, 2023, 7:56 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: February 7th, 2023, 7:49 am
Subcomandante wrote: February 7th, 2023, 7:39 am
Christianlee wrote: February 6th, 2023, 1:51 pm https://www.theblaze.com/news/un-to-pus ... gbt-people

“The United Nations announced plans to release a report in June regarding "perceived contradictions" between "the right to freedom of religion or belief (FoRB)" and "sexual orientation and gender identity (SOGI)." The report aims to push governments to "fully comply" with international human rights law to "protect and empower" the participation of LGBT+ people in religious communities, the Daily Caller News Foundation reported.”
This will go nowhere. The UN doesn't have the teeth to get anything done.

I could imagine countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia saying, welcome my rainbow friends!

NOT!
What if I told you that governments all over the world were already implementing United Nations policies within and outside national laws?
What if I told you that having a common relationship in one thing does not necessarily mean that you have a common relationship in absolutely everything?

Not everything is cut and dried. That's Talibanic thinking.
When you are a puppet figurehead over a nation and your boss says to jump, you say "how high?"


Ciams
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

Post by Ciams »

Thinker wrote: February 7th, 2023, 11:01 am
Subcomandante wrote: February 7th, 2023, 9:50 am The line in the sand that you guys constantly ask for will never be crossed by the church.
Sounds like you see the church as an infallible god. I used to see it similarly.

Hey, by any chance did/do you post on Mormon Discussion/Disvuss Mormonism Forum as “SubGenius”?
I will not ever leave the church. Sometimes I wonder if the church will leave me... but I think those are just unfortunate small doubts that sometimes creep in because of all the changes, you sometimes never know what's coming next.

But faith in Jesus Christ, and his plan is central to the church. Everything I see being throw against the church from "the right" is usually just based on the church trying to navigate a complex legal, statist, and irreligious culture and government.

The church still preaches Christ, repentance, baptism, the holy ghost, revelation, gifts of the spirit, higher ordinances of the temple, eternal families, exaltation, and so forth. Does it do so in exactly the same way and words as before? Sometimes no; but has it departed from Christ and his mission and testifying of him and pointing others to him? No. Thats where my testimony lies.

Please reconsider all who left. Christ is the standard. Not our postions on sinful social issues. When (If) the plan of salvation with the family changes or the church turns away from Christ, then it will have left me behind. But I don't see that happening.

The church might be said to be making strategic misteps with how it deals with a changing social and legal environment. But that's just me substituting my judgment for theirs. If I was in their shoes, I'd have that stewardship. I don't. So who am I to say what they ought to do, outside of just rhetorical discussions.

Valo
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

Post by Valo »

Ciams wrote: February 7th, 2023, 11:40 am
Thinker wrote: February 7th, 2023, 11:01 am
Subcomandante wrote: February 7th, 2023, 9:50 am The line in the sand that you guys constantly ask for will never be crossed by the church.
Sounds like you see the church as an infallible god. I used to see it similarly.

Hey, by any chance did/do you post on Mormon Discussion/Disvuss Mormonism Forum as “SubGenius”?
I will not ever leave the church. Sometimes I wonder if the church will leave me... but I think those are just unfortunate small doubts that sometimes creep in because of all the changes, you sometimes never know what's coming next.

But faith in Jesus Christ, and his plan is central to the church. Everything I see being throw against the church from "the right" is usually just based on the church trying to navigate a complex legal, statist, and irreligious culture and government.

The church still preaches Christ, repentance, baptism, the holy ghost, revelation, gifts of the spirit, higher ordinances of the temple, eternal families, exaltation, and so forth. Does it do so in exactly the same way and words as before? Sometimes no; but has it departed from Christ and his mission and testifying of him and pointing others to him? No. Thats where my testimony lies.

Please reconsider all who left. Christ is the standard. Not our postions on sinful social issues. When (If) the plan of salvation with the family changes or the church turns away from Christ, then it will have left me behind. But I don't see that happening.

The church might be said to be making strategic misteps with how it deals with a changing social and legal environment. But that's just me substituting my judgment for theirs. If I was in their shoes, I'd have that stewardship. I don't. So who am I to say what they ought to do, outside of just rhetorical discussions.
I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine’s flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

6 Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,
7 Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the Lord, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.
8 ¶ Thus saith the Lord, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants’ sakes, that I may not destroy them all.
9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
10 And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me.
11 ¶ But ye are they that forsake the Lord, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.
12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
13 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:
14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
17 ¶ For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

...

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Luke
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 5:12 pm This piece in the LDS Newsroom is interesting. They cite the offense of committing polygamy as worthy of ex-communication, but they don‘t cite revelation as the reason for the change, but due to our need to follow the laws of the land.
Which would at least be honest, since that is/was the only reason why polygamy ended in the Church. There was no revelation.

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Luke
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

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The Red Pill wrote: February 7th, 2023, 7:30 am "In 1831, Church founder Joseph Smith made a prayerful inquiry about the ancient Old Testament practice of plural marriage. This resulted in the divine instruction to reinstitute the practice as a religious principle."

Joseph DID NOT do this nor believe this. The 1835 and 1844 editions of the D&C had section 101, which CONDEMS polygamy and clearly states Monogamy is the Lord's proper way. Joseph, Hyrum and Emma were fighting AGAINST polygamy. Even Brigham and his manufactured section 132 didn't have Joseph receiving "revelation" on the subject until 1843.
Utter nonsense.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Luke wrote: February 7th, 2023, 2:50 pm
The Red Pill wrote: February 7th, 2023, 7:30 am "In 1831, Church founder Joseph Smith made a prayerful inquiry about the ancient Old Testament practice of plural marriage. This resulted in the divine instruction to reinstitute the practice as a religious principle."

Joseph DID NOT do this nor believe this. The 1835 and 1844 editions of the D&C had section 101, which CONDEMS polygamy and clearly states Monogamy is the Lord's proper way. Joseph, Hyrum and Emma were fighting AGAINST polygamy. Even Brigham and his manufactured section 132 didn't have Joseph receiving "revelation" on the subject until 1843.
Utter nonsense.
I was a little surprised it took you so long to comment on this... :)

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Luke
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

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Subcomandante wrote: February 7th, 2023, 9:50 am The line in the sand that you guys constantly ask for will never be crossed by the church.
My “line” was crossed in 1890. Another line they said “would never be crossed by the church”.

Won’t be long now mate.

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Luke
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

Post by Luke »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 7th, 2023, 2:52 pm
Luke wrote: February 7th, 2023, 2:50 pm
The Red Pill wrote: February 7th, 2023, 7:30 am "In 1831, Church founder Joseph Smith made a prayerful inquiry about the ancient Old Testament practice of plural marriage. This resulted in the divine instruction to reinstitute the practice as a religious principle."

Joseph DID NOT do this nor believe this. The 1835 and 1844 editions of the D&C had section 101, which CONDEMS polygamy and clearly states Monogamy is the Lord's proper way. Joseph, Hyrum and Emma were fighting AGAINST polygamy. Even Brigham and his manufactured section 132 didn't have Joseph receiving "revelation" on the subject until 1843.
Utter nonsense.
I was a little surprised it took you so long to comment on this... :)
Only just been reading this thread hahaha

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BroJones
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

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Christianlee wrote: February 6th, 2023, 5:09 pm Lose its tax exempt status or perform gay marriages in the temple?
Or close the temples...

The Church will NEVER perform same-sex SEALINGS in Temples.

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HereWeGo
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

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BroJones wrote: February 7th, 2023, 2:56 pm The Church will NEVER perform same-sex SEALINGS in Temples.
Sadly, they will. Please get back to me when they do.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

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BroJones wrote: February 7th, 2023, 2:56 pm The Church will NEVER perform same-sex SEALINGS in Temples.
Joseph thought they'd never preach/live polygamy either. Go figure.

Sunain
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

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BroJones wrote: February 7th, 2023, 2:56 pm
Christianlee wrote: February 6th, 2023, 5:09 pm Lose its tax exempt status or perform gay marriages in the temple?
Or close the temples...

The Church will NEVER perform same-sex SEALINGS in Temples.
I agree. The church will never perform same-sex SEALINGS in temples but they maybe forced to stop doing them for awhile. Ordinances being unavailable isn't out of the ordinary during the church's existence either. Just look at COVID, we had to stop ALL ordinances. The church conformed to the WHO agenda. I hope that if they were told and forced to allow same-sex sealings, that the church would just stop doing them all til Christs return.

I think we are so close to the second coming now that the Lord will allow temple ordinances being unavailable for a short season while Satan's wrath is at it's fullest, if it comes to that. My patriarchal blessing specifically states that I'll be very busy during the millennium in the temple helping people receive the necessary ordinances for salvation. Billions have yet to receive these ordinances. Waiting a while for a few thousand living members in the last few years before the Lord's return isn't going to be that big an issue.

Baptism is the ONLY necessary ordinance for personal salvation. We can do that in a river (or a big bathtub like we currently do :lol: )
Respondents were requested to indicate any policies or laws protecting discriminatory religious practices.
It seems by the way this is worded, even sealings would be considered a "discriminatory religious practice" as it would be limited by a membership, a recommend, and by gender. With tithing also being required for a recommend, they could also argue that it was economic discrimination.

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Niemand
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

Post by Niemand »

Chip wrote: February 6th, 2023, 4:09 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 2:47 pm So, now president Nelson is in a pickle.


For all the apologists, how can he be a Good Global Citizen now?

He can remind us that we believe in obeying the laws of the land.

They might get out in front of this and be proactive, like they were with this coloring page, coordinated ahead of time with the WHO's push to vaccinate toddlers.

thumbnail_i-can-be-brave-friend-april-2021.png
The best part of that picture is that she isn't even administering the injection properly. Not only is the needle too big, she's jabbing it straight in.

Forever
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

Post by Forever »

BroJones wrote: February 7th, 2023, 2:56 pm
Christianlee wrote: February 6th, 2023, 5:09 pm Lose its tax exempt status or perform gay marriages in the temple?
Or close the temples...

The Church will NEVER perform same-sex SEALINGS in Temples.
Be careful. Never say never

Lizzy60
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

Post by Lizzy60 »

With the current trajectory, and knowing how much tithing funds are tied into temple attendance, and temple marriage being the ultimate carrot, I don’t believe the Brethren would stop the Temple Sealings rather than give into LGBTQ sealings.

They can very easily convince many TBM’s that God will straighten (pun!!) everything out in the next life, and we just need to be inclusive and kind.

Sunain
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

Post by Sunain »

Forever wrote: February 7th, 2023, 5:59 pm
BroJones wrote: February 7th, 2023, 2:56 pm
Christianlee wrote: February 6th, 2023, 5:09 pm Lose its tax exempt status or perform gay marriages in the temple?
Or close the temples...

The Church will NEVER perform same-sex SEALINGS in Temples.
Be careful. Never say never
It is the red line for the Lord (and many faithful members of the church).

cwass
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Re: United Nations pushes full LGBT participation rights in churches

Post by cwass »

BroJones wrote: February 7th, 2023, 2:56 pm
Christianlee wrote: February 6th, 2023, 5:09 pm Lose its tax exempt status or perform gay marriages in the temple?
Or close the temples...

The Church will NEVER perform same-sex SEALINGS in Temples.
There already seems to be a powerful homosexual contingency in the church. I never thought my daughter would be hit on at girls camp and the leader would side with the girl that came on to my daughter but according to my daughter and another leader that is what happened.

I NEVER would have believed that we would have apostles and a prophet that are confirmed members of secret society's. I love that you have faith in our leaders. It gets harder to have that faith when their leadership makes it difficult to parent my children

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