The Problem with BYU Egyptologists

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
Post Reply
edgoble123
captain of 100
Posts: 167

The Problem with BYU Egyptologists

Post by edgoble123 »

The Problem with BYU Egyptologists: The denial of Joseph Smith's responsibility for the Kirtland Egyptian Papers
Last edited by edgoble123 on February 7th, 2023, 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3623

Re: The Problem with BYU Egyptologists

Post by Bronco73idi »

edgoble123 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:28 pm https://youtu.be/mxemNGM32PM

The Problem with BYU Egyptologists: The denial of Joseph Smith's responsibility for the Kirtland Egyptian Papers
https://askgramps.org/we-are-troubled-b ... iciencies/

The book of Abraham gives us the theory of general relativity in word form, 75 years before Einstein wrote it with the math equations to back it.

Jospeh Smith had to be a literary genius like Thomas Jefferson to fulfill ex Mormon claims.

Judge the fruit.

edgoble123
captain of 100
Posts: 167

Re: The Problem with BYU Egyptologists

Post by edgoble123 »

Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:45 pm
edgoble123 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:28 pm https://youtu.be/mxemNGM32PM

The Problem with BYU Egyptologists: The denial of Joseph Smith's responsibility for the Kirtland Egyptian Papers
https://askgramps.org/we-are-troubled-b ... iciencies/

The book of Abraham gives us the theory of general relativity in word form, 75 years before Einstein wrote it with the math equations to back it.

Jospeh Smith had to be a literary genius like Thomas Jefferson to fulfill ex Mormon claims.

Judge the fruit.
Thanks for your input. And I concur. Its just not exactly the same issue as what I'm bringing up. Related, but not the same.

Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3623

Re: The Problem with BYU Egyptologists

Post by Bronco73idi »

edgoble123 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 1:53 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:45 pm
edgoble123 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:28 pm https://youtu.be/mxemNGM32PM

The Problem with BYU Egyptologists: The denial of Joseph Smith's responsibility for the Kirtland Egyptian Papers
https://askgramps.org/we-are-troubled-b ... iciencies/

The book of Abraham gives us the theory of general relativity in word form, 75 years before Einstein wrote it with the math equations to back it.

Jospeh Smith had to be a literary genius like Thomas Jefferson to fulfill ex Mormon claims.

Judge the fruit.
Thanks for your input. And I concur. Its just not exactly the same issue as what I'm bringing up. Related, but not the same.
What is your issue then?

edgoble123
captain of 100
Posts: 167

Re: The Problem with BYU Egyptologists

Post by edgoble123 »

Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 2:12 pm
edgoble123 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 1:53 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:45 pm
edgoble123 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:28 pm https://youtu.be/mxemNGM32PM

The Problem with BYU Egyptologists: The denial of Joseph Smith's responsibility for the Kirtland Egyptian Papers
https://askgramps.org/we-are-troubled-b ... iciencies/

The book of Abraham gives us the theory of general relativity in word form, 75 years before Einstein wrote it with the math equations to back it.

Jospeh Smith had to be a literary genius like Thomas Jefferson to fulfill ex Mormon claims.

Judge the fruit.
Thanks for your input. And I concur. Its just not exactly the same issue as what I'm bringing up. Related, but not the same.
What is your issue then?
I described it in the video. It is necessary to listen carefully, and understand what is said. It is not the same as what you brought up.
The BYU Egyptologists are misrepresenting something that Joseph Smith himself produced and saying it wasn't. They are saying that it was produced by one of his scribes, which is a lie.
They do this because they do not want to have to do the work to defend the translations.
They want to say that they are false translations, and blame it on a scapegoat.

User avatar
TheDuke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5868
Location: Eastern Sodom Suburbs

Re: The Problem with BYU Egyptologists

Post by TheDuke »

Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:45 pm
edgoble123 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:28 pm https://youtu.be/mxemNGM32PM

The Problem with BYU Egyptologists: The denial of Joseph Smith's responsibility for the Kirtland Egyptian Papers
https://askgramps.org/we-are-troubled-b ... iciencies/

The book of Abraham gives us the theory of general relativity in word form, 75 years before Einstein wrote it with the math equations to back it.

Jospeh Smith had to be a literary genius like Thomas Jefferson to fulfill ex Mormon claims.

Judge the fruit.
please explain Joseph's theory or relativity? I don't buy that at all. But, am here to learn.

User avatar
SempiternalHarbinger
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1982
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut

Re: The Problem with BYU Egyptologists

Post by SempiternalHarbinger »

Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:45 pm
edgoble123 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:28 pm https://youtu.be/mxemNGM32PM

The Problem with BYU Egyptologists: The denial of Joseph Smith's responsibility for the Kirtland Egyptian Papers
https://askgramps.org/we-are-troubled-b ... iciencies/

The book of Abraham gives us the theory of general relativity in word form, 75 years before Einstein wrote it with the math equations to back it.

Jospeh Smith had to be a literary genius like Thomas Jefferson to fulfill ex Mormon claims.

Judge the fruit.
If I may ask, why do you believe this? What evidence do you have to support this? I have heard at least a half dozen to a dozen times in fast and testimony meetings of folks saying that Einstein's general relativity is encompassed in Abrahams's Egyptian writings yet I haven't seen a single instant that supports that idea.

Modern theoretical mathematical science was the furthest thing from Josephs's and Abrahams's minds. In my mind, the two are completely 100% incompatible with one another. It's because of theoretical science that we label the ancients crazy and had wild imaginations, myth, not true. Science has turned the true meaning of ancient myth upside down because the ancients believed their most sacred myths to be true, not falsehood as science would have us all believe. Nowadays, myth it's associated with fairy tales while theoretical science is king and based on so-called truths (assumptions really). Joseph Smith clearly believed the truths behind the myths and that's why he was desperately trying to understand their origins, science on the other hand does not believe this which pits him against Einstein and modern mainstream science.

That is what theoretical science says and the reason why most folks who understand modern theoretical math don't believe in God, let alone ancient myths. Fixed planets? Ancient "Egyptian" gods were planets? Stars, Suns, and Plantes (all the same to the ancients) receive their energy from an outside source, not from within (plasma/electromagnetic universe)? That's what Joesph's Abraham Egyptian writings attest to among many other things that science deems utterly impossible. It's laughable to modern science. And that is one of the big problems with Egyptologists today, before they look at one piece of fragment or text, it is put into their mind beforehand that there is no truth to the myths because of the very theoretical science so many claims Joseph and Abraham understood before their time. As I said, they are incompatible. In other words, if the science is correct then Joseph and Abraham were as crazy as the ancients were and none of it is true. But if it's the other way around, we can throw modern theoretical mathematical science in the garbage.

If you want to find the truth of how inspired Joseph Smith was and gain a testimony of the POGP and gain further light and knowledge, it has to come through a comparative approach to world ancient mythology and new cutting-edge science that attest to these things (Electric Universe). There is no other way. Through this approach, the heavens will open. This approach is used by the likes of Carl Jung, Joseph Campell, David Talbott, Immanuel Velikovsky, Hugh Nibley, and Mircea Eliade (who all the people I mentioned above consider the leading figure in the world in ancient religion/mythology). Yes, they all believed in different origins but yet all had the same approach.

What I do know about the Egyptian grammar and alphabet is it was not even close to being a finished product and thus little to no use can be had from it. If anything, it provides major fuel for the critics and those who are wavering about Josephs's EBOA. Hugh Nibley has covered this topic extensively and has more than persuaded me that nothing is to be gained through flawed and insufficient grammar and alphabet. It hurts the credibility of the EBOA and distracts from the real approach and truth. Just my two cents. I know Ed strongly disagrees with me and that's fine. I still like and appreciate him and believe he is a good man. I am a subscriber and follower of his youtube channel despite our indifference. I guess I am wondering if your mind is as set as Ed's is? If so, no problem, disregard my post.

Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3623

Re: The Problem with BYU Egyptologists

Post by Bronco73idi »

TheDuke wrote: February 6th, 2023, 4:37 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:45 pm
edgoble123 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:28 pm https://youtu.be/mxemNGM32PM

The Problem with BYU Egyptologists: The denial of Joseph Smith's responsibility for the Kirtland Egyptian Papers
https://askgramps.org/we-are-troubled-b ... iciencies/

The book of Abraham gives us the theory of general relativity in word form, 75 years before Einstein wrote it with the math equations to back it.

Jospeh Smith had to be a literary genius like Thomas Jefferson to fulfill ex Mormon claims.

Judge the fruit.
please explain Joseph's theory or relativity? I don't buy that at all. But, am here to learn.
We need a description to reference it so we are on the same page. Einstein had two theorem, general and special. Nikola Tesla argued that Einstein special theory of relativity is false. Some say they have prove it true. I’m only talking about the non special theory.

From Google

“Relativity is a theorem formulated by Albert Einstein, which states that space and time are relative, and all motion must be relative to a frame of reference. It is a notion that states' laws of physics are the same everywhere. This theory is simple but hard to understand.”

Abraham 3

4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob.

It’s there, yes it is a oversimplified description of it. There is so much in Abraham 3, the message of Elder King Follet discord is also implied in that chapter, excellent read.

User avatar
TheDuke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5868
Location: Eastern Sodom Suburbs

Re: The Problem with BYU Egyptologists

Post by TheDuke »

Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 5:26 pm
TheDuke wrote: February 6th, 2023, 4:37 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:45 pm
edgoble123 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:28 pm https://youtu.be/mxemNGM32PM

The Problem with BYU Egyptologists: The denial of Joseph Smith's responsibility for the Kirtland Egyptian Papers
https://askgramps.org/we-are-troubled-b ... iciencies/

The book of Abraham gives us the theory of general relativity in word form, 75 years before Einstein wrote it with the math equations to back it.

Jospeh Smith had to be a literary genius like Thomas Jefferson to fulfill ex Mormon claims.

Judge the fruit.
please explain Joseph's theory or relativity? I don't buy that at all. But, am here to learn.
We need a description to reference it so we are on the same page. Einstein had two theorem, general and special. Nikola Tesla argued that Einstein special theory of relativity is false. Some say they have prove it true. I’m only talking about the non special theory.

From Google

“Relativity is a theorem formulated by Albert Einstein, which states that space and time are relative, and all motion must be relative to a frame of reference. It is a notion that states' laws of physics are the same everywhere. This theory is simple but hard to understand.”

Abraham 3

4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob.

It’s there, yes it is a oversimplified description of it. There is so much in Abraham 3, the message of Elder King Follet discord is also implied in that chapter, excellent read.
I see your point, but don't really agree, it might be something Nibley would also say however. Relativity is about both time and space. Joseph was talking about relative time, the concept of space added is what Albert added. I do believe Joseph, Abraham and others had more knowledge about the cosmos that we give them credit for.

Special relativity is easy to prove, perihelion of Mercury, and as I stated before my need (with others of course) to correct GPS due to atomic clock drift by their relative speeds. General relativity is harder to comprehend, at least for me, and the concept of space expanding and gravity waves, may be correct but may be only proven due to our instruments, but the math works. BTW general relativity doesn't mean much to me as I never have had a cause to use in it my work or daily life.

BTW in Nibley's book about the OT, he does a lot on relative time. It is pretty good, at least to make one think, but I followed his references (like the ones on prayer circles) and find them mostly lacking and needing strong twisting to accept stait out.

Valo
captain of 100
Posts: 974

Re: The Problem with BYU Egyptologists

Post by Valo »

TheDuke wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:30 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 5:26 pm
TheDuke wrote: February 6th, 2023, 4:37 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:45 pm

https://askgramps.org/we-are-troubled-b ... iciencies/

The book of Abraham gives us the theory of general relativity in word form, 75 years before Einstein wrote it with the math equations to back it.

Jospeh Smith had to be a literary genius like Thomas Jefferson to fulfill ex Mormon claims.

Judge the fruit.
please explain Joseph's theory or relativity? I don't buy that at all. But, am here to learn.
We need a description to reference it so we are on the same page. Einstein had two theorem, general and special. Nikola Tesla argued that Einstein special theory of relativity is false. Some say they have prove it true. I’m only talking about the non special theory.

From Google

“Relativity is a theorem formulated by Albert Einstein, which states that space and time are relative, and all motion must be relative to a frame of reference. It is a notion that states' laws of physics are the same everywhere. This theory is simple but hard to understand.”

Abraham 3

4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob.

It’s there, yes it is a oversimplified description of it. There is so much in Abraham 3, the message of Elder King Follet discord is also implied in that chapter, excellent read.
I see your point, but don't really agree, it might be something Nibley would also say however. Relativity is about both time and space. Joseph was talking about relative time, the concept of space added is what Albert added. I do believe Joseph, Abraham and others had more knowledge about the cosmos that we give them credit for.

Special relativity is easy to prove, perihelion of Mercury, and as I stated before my need (with others of course) to correct GPS due to atomic clock drift by their relative speeds. General relativity is harder to comprehend, at least for me, and the concept of space expanding and gravity waves, may be correct but may be only proven due to our instruments, but the math works. BTW general relativity doesn't mean much to me as I never have had a cause to use in it my work or daily life.

BTW in Nibley's book about the OT, he does a lot on relative time. It is pretty good, at least to make one think, but I followed his references (like the ones on prayer circles) and find them mostly lacking and needing strong twisting to accept stait out.
It's not space and time, its space-time.

...

User avatar
madvin
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1114
Location: Stillwater OK

Re: The Problem with BYU Egyptologists

Post by madvin »

SempiternalHarbinger wrote: February 6th, 2023, 4:51 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:45 pm
edgoble123 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:28 pm https://youtu.be/mxemNGM32PM

The Problem with BYU Egyptologists: The denial of Joseph Smith's responsibility for the Kirtland Egyptian Papers
https://askgramps.org/we-are-troubled-b ... iciencies/

The book of Abraham gives us the theory of general relativity in word form, 75 years before Einstein wrote it with the math equations to back it.

Jospeh Smith had to be a literary genius like Thomas Jefferson to fulfill ex Mormon claims.

Judge the fruit.
If I may ask, why do you believe this? What evidence do you have to support this? I have heard at least a half dozen to a dozen times in fast and testimony meetings of folks saying that Einstein's general relativity is encompassed in Abrahams's Egyptian writings yet I haven't seen a single instant that supports that idea.

Modern theoretical mathematical science was the furthest thing from Josephs's and Abrahams's minds. In my mind, the two are completely 100% incompatible with one another. It's because of theoretical science that we label the ancients crazy and had wild imaginations, myth, not true. Science has turned the true meaning of ancient myth upside down because the ancients believed their most sacred myths to be true, not falsehood as science would have us all believe. Nowadays, myth it's associated with fairy tales while theoretical science is king and based on so-called truths (assumptions really). Joseph Smith clearly believed the truths behind the myths and that's why he was desperately trying to understand their origins, science on the other hand does not believe this which pits him against Einstein and modern mainstream science.

That is what theoretical science says and the reason why most folks who understand modern theoretical math don't believe in God, let alone ancient myths. Fixed planets? Ancient "Egyptian" gods were planets? Stars, Suns, and Plantes (all the same to the ancients) receive their energy from an outside source, not from within (plasma/electromagnetic universe)? That's what Joesph's Abraham Egyptian writings attest to among many other things that science deems utterly impossible. It's laughable to modern science. And that is one of the big problems with Egyptologists today, before they look at one piece of fragment or text, it is put into their mind beforehand that there is no truth to the myths because of the very theoretical science so many claims Joseph and Abraham understood before their time. As I said, they are incompatible. In other words, if the science is correct then Joseph and Abraham were as crazy as the ancients were and none of it is true. But if it's the other way around, we can throw modern theoretical mathematical science in the garbage.

If you want to find the truth of how inspired Joseph Smith was and gain a testimony of the POGP and gain further light and knowledge, it has to come through a comparative approach to world ancient mythology and new cutting-edge science that attest to these things (Electric Universe). There is no other way. Through this approach, the heavens will open. This approach is used by the likes of Carl Jung, Joseph Campell, David Talbott, Immanuel Velikovsky, Hugh Nibley, and Mircea Eliade (who all the people I mentioned above consider the leading figure in the world in ancient religion/mythology). Yes, they all believed in different origins but yet all had the same approach.

What I do know about the Egyptian grammar and alphabet is it was not even close to being a finished product and thus little to no use can be had from it. If anything, it provides major fuel for the critics and those who are wavering about Josephs's EBOA. Hugh Nibley has covered this topic extensively and has more than persuaded me that nothing is to be gained through flawed and insufficient grammar and alphabet. It hurts the credibility of the EBOA and distracts from the real approach and truth. Just my two cents. I know Ed strongly disagrees with me and that's fine. I still like and appreciate him and believe he is a good man. I am a subscriber and follower of his youtube channel despite our indifference. I guess I am wondering if your mind is as set as Ed's is? If so, no problem, disregard my post.
Wow, great post!

"But if it's the other way around, we can throw modern theoretical mathematical science in the garbage." Yes, pretty much garbage.
The theoretical math model of the universe is nonsense, as has been shown by the Thunderbolts Project.
The electric universe proclaims the biggest problem of astronomy has been the exclusion of the electric force in the universe:

edgoble123
captain of 100
Posts: 167

Re: The Problem with BYU Egyptologists

Post by edgoble123 »

/
Last edited by edgoble123 on February 7th, 2023, 10:20 am, edited 3 times in total.

Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3623

Re: The Problem with BYU Egyptologists

Post by Bronco73idi »

SempiternalHarbinger wrote: February 6th, 2023, 4:51 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:45 pm
edgoble123 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:28 pm https://youtu.be/mxemNGM32PM

The Problem with BYU Egyptologists: The denial of Joseph Smith's responsibility for the Kirtland Egyptian Papers
https://askgramps.org/we-are-troubled-b ... iciencies/

The book of Abraham gives us the theory of general relativity in word form, 75 years before Einstein wrote it with the math equations to back it.

Jospeh Smith had to be a literary genius like Thomas Jefferson to fulfill ex Mormon claims.

Judge the fruit.
If I may ask, why do you believe this? What evidence do you have to support this? I have heard at least a half dozen to a dozen times in fast and testimony meetings of folks saying that Einstein's general relativity is encompassed in Abrahams's Egyptian writings yet I haven't seen a single instant that supports that idea.

Modern theoretical mathematical science was the furthest thing from Josephs's and Abrahams's minds. In my mind, the two are completely 100% incompatible with one another. It's because of theoretical science that we label the ancients crazy and had wild imaginations, myth, not true. Science has turned the true meaning of ancient myth upside down because the ancients believed their most sacred myths to be true, not falsehood as science would have us all believe. Nowadays, myth it's associated with fairy tales while theoretical science is king and based on so-called truths (assumptions really). Joseph Smith clearly believed the truths behind the myths and that's why he was desperately trying to understand their origins, science on the other hand does not believe this which pits him against Einstein and modern mainstream science.

That is what theoretical science says and the reason why most folks who understand modern theoretical math don't believe in God, let alone ancient myths. Fixed planets? Ancient "Egyptian" gods were planets? Stars, Suns, and Plantes (all the same to the ancients) receive their energy from an outside source, not from within (plasma/electromagnetic universe)? That's what Joesph's Abraham Egyptian writings attest to among many other things that science deems utterly impossible. It's laughable to modern science. And that is one of the big problems with Egyptologists today, before they look at one piece of fragment or text, it is put into their mind beforehand that there is no truth to the myths because of the very theoretical science so many claims Joseph and Abraham understood before their time. As I said, they are incompatible. In other words, if the science is correct then Joseph and Abraham were as crazy as the ancients were and none of it is true. But if it's the other way around, we can throw modern theoretical mathematical science in the garbage.

If you want to find the truth of how inspired Joseph Smith was and gain a testimony of the POGP and gain further light and knowledge, it has to come through a comparative approach to world ancient mythology and new cutting-edge science that attest to these things (Electric Universe). There is no other way. Through this approach, the heavens will open. This approach is used by the likes of Carl Jung, Joseph Campell, David Talbott, Immanuel Velikovsky, Hugh Nibley, and Mircea Eliade (who all the people I mentioned above consider the leading figure in the world in ancient religion/mythology). Yes, they all believed in different origins but yet all had the same approach.

What I do know about the Egyptian grammar and alphabet is it was not even close to being a finished product and thus little to no use can be had from it. If anything, it provides major fuel for the critics and those who are wavering about Josephs's EBOA. Hugh Nibley has covered this topic extensively and has more than persuaded me that nothing is to be gained through flawed and insufficient grammar and alphabet. It hurts the credibility of the EBOA and distracts from the real approach and truth. Just my two cents. I know Ed strongly disagrees with me and that's fine. I still like and appreciate him and believe he is a good man. I am a subscriber and follower of his youtube channel despite our indifference. I guess I am wondering if your mind is as set as Ed's is? If so, no problem, disregard my post.
Excellent write up, lots of time into your thoughts and no agenda of personal gain. It’s hard to find that around here lol

I 100% believe in plasma universe, we are seeing more and more dust all the time. I believe our modern science isn’t truly modern, it’s anchored in ideas the beast grasped to prior to 1950. We are just trying to prove those theories. The beast knows the truth but if you keep the children of god down and mock them enough they will believe that they are nothing more then a puppet to god.

People tell me it’s blasphemy to say “I’m a literal child of God, just like you” “we can become like our father in heaven just like you can become like your earthly father”. They don’t like it, it doesn’t fit their mold of religion, even when you show them the printed words in the Old and New Testament that support this idea, “I said, ye are Gods” John 10:34

I bring this up because it’s the same sort of blockage that people of science have in your scenario.

Post Reply