If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

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madvin
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by madvin »

Speaking of change being good or bad, here's a good change: get out of the vaccine business.

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notjamesbond003.5
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by notjamesbond003.5 »

As an aside:
The man next to Bednar, Bruce Kusch baptized me when I was 8 years old in our Southern Calif ward. He was a Priest at the time, good guy. He later went on to become Bishop of our ward and continued his accession in LDS Church.

Njb

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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

HereWeGo wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:52 pm
cwass wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:41 pm For me, I'm voluntarily in the organization and hold to the scriptures and to faith in Christ. It's like I told my Presbyterian friend...where would I go with my faith in the book of Mormon and Joseph Smith. I can't go to his church and be better off...what? stay home and worship? Doesn't meet the scriptures declaration to meet together oft.. I understand the problems.. and I'm not happy about it. So I stay untill I get kicked out and they don't want me to meet together with them. Or a better option that is heaven sent becomes available.
I am in somewhat the same situation. FWIW, there are groups out there who strongly adhere to Joseph Smith, the BoM, Jesus Christ, etc other than the LDS & RLDS. Two that jump out at me are the Doctrine of Christ group and the Remnant group (Denver Snuffer). Check those out. If you Google them, you will get negative stuff just like you get with all churches. Go to their websites and see what they have to say.
I’d be careful w/ the original DoC group… that inner circle imploded.

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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Moroni104 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 5:25 pm I watched some of this video.

He was talking about change when he was referring to moving from Oklahoma to Idaho because the Church asked him to.

I have received different callings too. My callings change.

This talk is about changes in callings.

I listened from the start to minute 16.

Maybe something else happens after that is of interest, but otherwise this is just a generic talk about changes affecting people's lives.
I don’t know if we listened to the same talk. Bednar gives the impetus for the OP title in like the first minute or two. It was about God changing our lives, not just callings.

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Moroni104
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:43 pm
Moroni104 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 5:25 pm I watched some of this video.

He was talking about change when he was referring to moving from Oklahoma to Idaho because the Church asked him to.

I have received different callings too. My callings change.

This talk is about changes in callings.

I listened from the start to minute 16.

Maybe something else happens after that is of interest, but otherwise this is just a generic talk about changes affecting people's lives.
I don’t know if we listened to the same talk. Bednar gives the impetus for the OP title in like the first minute or two. It was about God changing our lives, not just callings.
I listened to the whole talk. Whether you are talking about callings or life, the point is the same; this is NOT a talk about the institutional church changing. This is just a traditional talk about life changing.

There was nothing unusual about this talk. It wasn't particularly interesting or inspiring, and it also wasn't controversial. It was just a standard talk that one hears. It is no different than a talk someone might have given in 1970 or 1930 or 1870.

In general I agree with the talk.

Life keeps changing.

God keeps asking people to change.

I have learned all kinds of skills by submitting to different changes God has asked of me.

I realize that many people are upset with the brethren. There are many things to be upset about. But, being upset over such trite things as this unimportant and uncontroverisal talk actually trivializes things that the brethren have done that are truly controversial. This talk is NOT controversial.

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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Moroni104 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:58 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:43 pm
Moroni104 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 5:25 pm I watched some of this video.

He was talking about change when he was referring to moving from Oklahoma to Idaho because the Church asked him to.

I have received different callings too. My callings change.

This talk is about changes in callings.

I listened from the start to minute 16.

Maybe something else happens after that is of interest, but otherwise this is just a generic talk about changes affecting people's lives.
I don’t know if we listened to the same talk. Bednar gives the impetus for the OP title in like the first minute or two. It was about God changing our lives, not just callings.
I listened to the whole talk. Whether you are talking about callings or life, the point is the same; this is NOT a talk about the institutional church changing. This is just a traditional talk about life changing.

There was nothing unusual about this talk. It wasn't particularly interesting or inspiring, and it also wasn't controversial. It was just a standard talk that one hears. It is no different than a talk someone might have given in 1970 or 1930 or 1870.

In general I agree with the talk.

Life keeps changing.

God keeps asking people to change.

I have learned all kinds of skills by submitting to different changes God has asked of me.

I realize that many people are upset with the brethren. There are many things to be upset about. But, being upset over such trite things as this unimportant and uncontroverisal talk actually trivializes things that the brethren have done that are truly controversial. This talk is NOT controversial.
I agree, but as I stated before, there’s the undercurrent fruits that are rotten below the surface, like a festering blister that needs the bandage taken off and the puss scraped out. They speak sweet platitudes, but the fruits don’t compute.

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Being There
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Being There »

Fred wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:34 pm Embrace change
says it
at 2 min 50 sec.

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Being There
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

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Fred wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:34 pm Embrace change
of course the church has to change.
Because it's part of Babylon.

about change ********
as I've said before in a comment to someone.

Jesus said
"He that is not with me is against me"
THE CHURCH IS NOT WITH HIM but with satan and the World which he controls.

Ya, I guess Jesus would say - it's best to just partake of their evil fruit -the kill shot - and join them. - as the church has done.
Anyone - that's not the blind following the blind - knows that that is exactly what the church has done -
with being "Good Global Citizens" - and asking all members to follow them - and who they follow -
World leaders - and their secret combinations. These evil people want their NWO ! ;
and our church is first in line !
And with their desire for money - Building Babylon Bigger and BIGGER -
with all their investments and ties with evil organizations.

Wake up to the facts !
Right here in this forum - in many places - those that are awake - have shown and proved this.
But members like you see here, don't want to see it - much less accept it.

When will members - all the TBM stop trying to justify everything your church leaders do -
and why they do it.

"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it.
He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it."

the church follows this to the tee.
The church is "neutral" on everything - and stands up for nothing; because it's a part of Babylon,
and has joined " that great and abominable church" - "Global Unity" - Babylon - the NWO.

"Worldly philosophies have rooted themselves in the decisions made by church leaders
and are growing ever more compatible with the teachings of the church.
These decisions (not revelations) and changes the church has made over the years -
are the result of giving into the pressures of Babylon.
In these modern times, instead of still being the peculiar people that we once were before,
the church changes according to the whims of society.


********
“A ‘true’ church doesn’t change its doctrines at the whims of society and the pressures of ever-changing
and evolving morals and values.
God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, and so should His church be,
and to change would be to cave in on what it stands for.”


The church is in total apostasy.

"if you had ever questioned if Nelson was a false prophet, and whether or not the church had gone astray,
I think that question has been answered for you.

""ONE GREAT GLOBAL FAMILY"
Pres. Nelson
(sounds more like what satan (the god of this world) would say)



"The actions of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are directed first and foremost
at protecting their interests in Babylon; which they play a big part in.
With their great efforts at being "Good Global Citizens", and Agenda 2030.
and with "The LDS Church is also donating millions of dollars to Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance
(founded by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation), which is very much involved in the the
COVID-19 vaccine race.
They also donate to W.H.O. and others."
https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 1#p1055711

The COJCOLDS is NOT the Great and Abominable Church, - it's part of it.
We've "joined " and "united" with it.
2 Nephi 6

12 And blessed are the Gentiles, they of whom the prophet has written; for behold,
if it so be that they shall repent and fight not against Zion, and do not unite themselves to that great and abominable church
* ( so, this verse shows that there is a possibility that this could happen. and it has.


Dictionary
hinge -
"attach or join with or as if with a hinge"

This is what President Nelson said:
"This is a hinge point in the history of the church."

I wouldn't want to be shaking hands with this guy.
The pope is a leading figure in the NWO trying to unite all religions. ie ( the Great and Abominable Church )

"If you are in a church organization which looks on world unity
and ecumenical efforts as desirable, YOU ARE IN the Whore Church,
and you will either get OUT of her, or you will be damned to hell and consumed
by the wrath of a holy God. "


Rome Temple dedication - and meeting with the pope,
President Nelson said:
"This is a hinge point in the history of the church.
Things are going to move forward at an accelerated pace, of which this is a part,"

"His Holiness, he was most gracious and warm and welcoming," ,
"What a sweet, wonderful man he is, and how fortunate the Catholic people are to have such a gracious,
concerned, loving and capable leader."

The pope is also most likely the "false prophet" in Rev 19:20
and could be the "another beast" in Revelation 13: 11
https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... t#p1022271


farmerchick
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by farmerchick »

I thought he was mostly talking about individuals who are changing as they grow in knowledge about the gospel to be better suited for the kingdom and progression....

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Subcomandante
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

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Forever wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:49 am
Subcomandante wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:44 am
pho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:30 am
I say that Joseph Smith, with Joseph Smith's mentality back in those days, would NOT be able to run TODAY's Church
I think he could run the Church through the Spirit and Revelations. But you might be right, he would struggle to run the Corporation.
And what if the revelation was had to form the Church as a corporation?

I mean, it had to form up as something before the fiscal authorities not only of the USA, but everywhere else where the Church has representation. Otherwise, they could not function as a Church anywhere.

The Church was formed on 06 April 1830. Every Latter Day Saint knows that. But what was done? It was recognized as such by the State of New York that day, following that jurisdiction's procedures.
More justifying their evil deeds. Those who worship them are running out of defenses.
I don't worship the leaders. I worship God. God tells the leaders what to do with the Church just as He told them what to do with the Church then.

Not surprisingly, the way of operations of the Church is different in 2023 than it was in 1833.

That has everyone here riled up.

Many here want the Church to run on a terrestrial sphere. Count me in that system, when it does arrive. Until then, the Church has to deal with the current telestial system, with its current laws, rules, and regulations, and it does so in an attempt to be able to spread the Gospel further and further.

Believe it or not, Zion is not going to be built with a lot of well-meaning prayers and pixie dust, with absolutely no action on our part and nothing but complaining in dark corners. Building Zion takes time and it takes money, and it requires that we gain an education to do our part in edifying that community.

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madvin
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by madvin »

No real education offered in schools and universities these days...

Forever
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Forever »

Subcomandante wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:10 pm
Forever wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:49 am
Subcomandante wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:44 am
pho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:30 am

I think he could run the Church through the Spirit and Revelations. But you might be right, he would struggle to run the Corporation.
And what if the revelation was had to form the Church as a corporation?

I mean, it had to form up as something before the fiscal authorities not only of the USA, but everywhere else where the Church has representation. Otherwise, they could not function as a Church anywhere.

The Church was formed on 06 April 1830. Every Latter Day Saint knows that. But what was done? It was recognized as such by the State of New York that day, following that jurisdiction's procedures.
More justifying their evil deeds. Those who worship them are running out of defenses.
I don't worship the leaders. I worship God. God tells the leaders what to do with the Church just as He told them what to do with the Church then.

Not surprisingly, the way of operations of the Church is different in 2023 than it was in 1833.

That has everyone here riled up.

Many here want the Church to run on a terrestrial sphere. Count me in that system, when it does arrive. Until then, the Church has to deal with the current telestial system, with its current laws, rules, and regulations, and it does so in an attempt to be able to spread the Gospel further and further.

Believe it or not, Zion is not going to be built with a lot of well-meaning prayers and pixie dust, with absolutely no action on our part and nothing but complaining in dark corners. Building Zion takes time and it takes money, and it requires that we gain an education to do our part in edifying that community.
The great prophesied separation of the wheat and tares is happening now in wards and families. I am wheat.

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JandD6572
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by JandD6572 »

cwass wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:42 am I watched the video. I don't have a problem with the context in which he used change. If the Lord came to me and told me to move my family to Siberia I would hope I'd be willing to change locations even though my family has been in this location for generations.
I want to change for the better or be ready to go or do what the Lord wants me to do even if I have to change in order to do it.

That is the context I took it. If the first presidency called me and asked me to be the president of BYU I would pray about it just like anything else.

But I don't want change to mean that I have to accept the new world order. It's not in God's program as I understand His plan.
this is totally apples to organes, huge, huge difference between the Lord asking something of us, and a business leader asking.

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Niemand
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Niemand »

blitzinstripes wrote: February 6th, 2023, 1:05 pm Don't tempt ME with a good time. 😁 I play as well. I wish our music was a little "livelier". Not sure about going full blown Christian metal, but do 99% of our hymns honestly have to be 200 yrs old? I honestly think Jesus rolls his eyes at some of it. Who decided that He only likes organ music from the 19th century?
If you've heard "praise music" in certain other churches or some modern hymns, you'd understand why some of us prefer the old organ music.

What does get me about our hymns is how toned down they are. The words are trimmed and the music is often oversimplified, making them more banal.

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Subcomandante
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Subcomandante »

madvin wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:00 pm No real education offered in schools and universities these days...
Did I say gain an education in school or university? There are many different ways to gain an education.

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Subcomandante
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

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Forever wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:15 pm
Subcomandante wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:10 pm
Forever wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:49 am
Subcomandante wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:44 am

And what if the revelation was had to form the Church as a corporation?

I mean, it had to form up as something before the fiscal authorities not only of the USA, but everywhere else where the Church has representation. Otherwise, they could not function as a Church anywhere.

The Church was formed on 06 April 1830. Every Latter Day Saint knows that. But what was done? It was recognized as such by the State of New York that day, following that jurisdiction's procedures.
More justifying their evil deeds. Those who worship them are running out of defenses.
I don't worship the leaders. I worship God. God tells the leaders what to do with the Church just as He told them what to do with the Church then.

Not surprisingly, the way of operations of the Church is different in 2023 than it was in 1833.

That has everyone here riled up.

Many here want the Church to run on a terrestrial sphere. Count me in that system, when it does arrive. Until then, the Church has to deal with the current telestial system, with its current laws, rules, and regulations, and it does so in an attempt to be able to spread the Gospel further and further.

Believe it or not, Zion is not going to be built with a lot of well-meaning prayers and pixie dust, with absolutely no action on our part and nothing but complaining in dark corners. Building Zion takes time and it takes money, and it requires that we gain an education to do our part in edifying that community.
The great prophesied separation of the wheat and tares is happening now in wards and families. I am wheat.
If you are with Christ and His servants who are the FP and the 12, you are of the wheat.

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MikeMaillet
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by MikeMaillet »

Niemand wrote: February 7th, 2023, 5:18 am
blitzinstripes wrote: February 6th, 2023, 1:05 pm Don't tempt ME with a good time. 😁 I play as well. I wish our music was a little "livelier". Not sure about going full blown Christian metal, but do 99% of our hymns honestly have to be 200 yrs old? I honestly think Jesus rolls his eyes at some of it. Who decided that He only likes organ music from the 19th century?
If you've heard "praise music" in certain other churches or some modern hymns, you'd understand why some of us prefer the old organ music.

What does get me about our hymns is how toned down they are. The words are trimmed and the music is often oversimplified, making them more banal.
About 20 years ago my neighbour across the street invited me to a special musical performance at his church. He was the Pastor at the local Pentacostal church and he knew I held a similar role at the local Mormon church. I graciously accepted his offer and attended the event but had to leave early because I felt the music to be inappropriate for worshipping God. I'm a huge fan of blues music but I felt that a more appropriate and respectful form of music should be performed when addressing Deity.

I really enjoy many of the older hymns but usually balk at some of the newer stuff with simple arrangements. I guess that this might make it easier on some units where a decent piano/organ player may be difficult to find.

Mike

Forever
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Forever »

Subcomandante wrote: February 7th, 2023, 5:48 am
Forever wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:15 pm
Subcomandante wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:10 pm
Forever wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:49 am

More justifying their evil deeds. Those who worship them are running out of defenses.
I don't worship the leaders. I worship God. God tells the leaders what to do with the Church just as He told them what to do with the Church then.

Not surprisingly, the way of operations of the Church is different in 2023 than it was in 1833.

That has everyone here riled up.

Many here want the Church to run on a terrestrial sphere. Count me in that system, when it does arrive. Until then, the Church has to deal with the current telestial system, with its current laws, rules, and regulations, and it does so in an attempt to be able to spread the Gospel further and further.

Believe it or not, Zion is not going to be built with a lot of well-meaning prayers and pixie dust, with absolutely no action on our part and nothing but complaining in dark corners. Building Zion takes time and it takes money, and it requires that we gain an education to do our part in edifying that community.
The great prophesied separation of the wheat and tares is happening now in wards and families. I am wheat.
If you are with Christ and His servants who are the FP and the 12, you are of the wheat.
The 15 are Satanists. And those who worship them are the tares.

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Subcomandante
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Subcomandante »

Forever wrote: February 7th, 2023, 6:31 am
Subcomandante wrote: February 7th, 2023, 5:48 am
Forever wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:15 pm
Subcomandante wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:10 pm

I don't worship the leaders. I worship God. God tells the leaders what to do with the Church just as He told them what to do with the Church then.

Not surprisingly, the way of operations of the Church is different in 2023 than it was in 1833.

That has everyone here riled up.

Many here want the Church to run on a terrestrial sphere. Count me in that system, when it does arrive. Until then, the Church has to deal with the current telestial system, with its current laws, rules, and regulations, and it does so in an attempt to be able to spread the Gospel further and further.

Believe it or not, Zion is not going to be built with a lot of well-meaning prayers and pixie dust, with absolutely no action on our part and nothing but complaining in dark corners. Building Zion takes time and it takes money, and it requires that we gain an education to do our part in edifying that community.
The great prophesied separation of the wheat and tares is happening now in wards and families. I am wheat.
If you are with Christ and His servants who are the FP and the 12, you are of the wheat.
The 15 are Satanists. And those who worship them are the tares.
What are your evidences for that?

My evidences are the Scriptures.

Now, if you are to say that the 15 are not servants of Jesus Christ, then it will be up to you to declare who are the servants of Jesus Christ. As well as present fruits evidencing that.

DesertWonderer2
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by DesertWonderer2 »

I only listen to his comments on Change—they were near perfect. If someone disagrees w what he said, they need to take a long look in the mirror.

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Chip
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Chip »

Subcomandante wrote: February 7th, 2023, 7:26 am
Forever wrote: February 7th, 2023, 6:31 am
Subcomandante wrote: February 7th, 2023, 5:48 am
Forever wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:15 pm

The great prophesied separation of the wheat and tares is happening now in wards and families. I am wheat.
If you are with Christ and His servants who are the FP and the 12, you are of the wheat.
The 15 are Satanists. And those who worship them are the tares.
What are your evidences for that?

My evidences are the Scriptures.

Now, if you are to say that the 15 are not servants of Jesus Christ, then it will be up to you to declare who are the servants of Jesus Christ. As well as present fruits evidencing that.
Nice of you to declare some new rules and then decree that someone else should follow them. That's so 'left' of you. People are tired of this kind of thing.

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madvin
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by madvin »

Subcomandante wrote: February 7th, 2023, 5:47 am
madvin wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:00 pm No real education offered in schools and universities these days...
Did I say gain an education in school or university? There are many different ways to gain an education.
Sorry, I didn't mean for you to get defensive. I'm not saying that's what you said. It's just an observation, augmenting your comment.

Ciams
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Ciams »

Fred wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:34 pm Embrace change
Repentance is change.

Literally that's what the word means.

Valo
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Post by Valo »

Ciams wrote: February 7th, 2023, 11:46 am
Fred wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:34 pm Embrace change
Repentance is change.

Literally that's what the word means.
In a broad sense yes but when God says repent He is not just asking you to change. He is asking you to turn again towards Him and start obeying Him.

God's laws are eternal and He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. There is no variablness in His commandments He has given for us to follow and obey.

We can't call changing God's eternal laws repentance.

...

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MikeMaillet
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by MikeMaillet »

In some of the scriptures I have read (I might look them up if feeling so inclined) the word repentance was used to mean a return as well as a change. I liked the imagery of Adam & Eve (which are many) returning to the Garden after being saved and being admitted through the Gate, the Gate to Zion.

Mike

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