If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

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tribrac
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by tribrac »

Sunain wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:13 am Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
How dare you suggest Jesus wouldn't take an airplane.

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pho·to·syn·the·sis
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by pho·to·syn·the·sis »

I say that Joseph Smith, with Joseph Smith's mentality back in those days, would NOT be able to run TODAY's Church
I think he could run the Church through the Spirit and Revelations. But you might be right, he would struggle to run the Corporation.

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MikeMaillet
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

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Watching the church fall apart is disheartening to me because I have been privileged to be amongst people that I consider my brothers, sisters, friends and buddies for so many years. So many good people who have devoted countless hours, dollars, tears and sweat only to watch their religious leaders adopt the ways of Babylon. This is the part that gets me a bit stirred up. If it was just me, I would be thankful for having my vision cleared up and I would be continuing to search the scriptures and praying for more clarity. The anger comes from watching many of my very close friends be treated like crap by the institution.

Even sadder was watching most of my close friends leave the church and with that, toss their copies of the Book of Mormon in the trash. That's why I get a little riled up with so called "leaders". I've done my best trying to get my friends to separate the institutional church from Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon but in the end I failed. It frustrates me to no end.

My wife tells me I can be rather cutting when I get excited so I reread my comments from earlier this morning. It appears that my observant wife is correct, those were harsh words but I do stand by them.

Mike

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MikeMaillet
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by MikeMaillet »

iWriteStuff wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:20 am
Fred wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:34 pm Embrace change
It seems like their goal is for smaller congregations. If that's the change they want, I think they're already starting to see it.

Now watch them crank it up to 11.
My Fender Blues Jr. amplifier goes to 12, just so you know :-)

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iWriteStuff
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by iWriteStuff »

tribrac wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:15 am
Sunain wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:13 am Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
How dare you suggest Jesus wouldn't take an airplane.
literally LOL'd on this one.

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iWriteStuff
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by iWriteStuff »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:09 am
iWriteStuff wrote: February 6th, 2023, 8:39 am
tribrac wrote: February 6th, 2023, 8:32 am Church feels like Survivor.
And the prize for surviving is:
* More cleaned bathroom stalls for you...
Wasn't that part of the temple recommend interview questions? :)
Hey, heaven knows I cleaned my share. So did my kids. I just wish the church had something more to offer them than cleaning up some primary kid’s failed attempt at urinal marksmanship.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

iWriteStuff wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:25 am Hey, heaven knows I cleaned my share. So did my kids. I just wish the church had something more to offer them than cleaning up some primary kid’s failed attempt at urinal marksmanship.
It's especially important if the profit asks you to... :)
Him: Do you sustain….yada yada
Me: <pauses to think>
Him: You hesitated, do you care to talk about it?
Me: <explains a little bit of what’s going on>
Him: Well, if President Nelson came to your ward and asked you to clean the bathrooms would you do it?
Me: Yes
Him: Works for me!

cwass
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by cwass »

I watched the video. I don't have a problem with the context in which he used change. If the Lord came to me and told me to move my family to Siberia I would hope I'd be willing to change locations even though my family has been in this location for generations.
I want to change for the better or be ready to go or do what the Lord wants me to do even if I have to change in order to do it.

That is the context I took it. If the first presidency called me and asked me to be the president of BYU I would pray about it just like anything else.

But I don't want change to mean that I have to accept the new world order. It's not in God's program as I understand His plan.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

cwass wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:42 am I watched the video. I don't have a problem with the context in which he used change. If the Lord came to me and told me to move my family to Siberia I would hope I'd be willing to change locations even though my family has been in this location for generations.
I want to change for the better or be ready to go or do what the Lord wants me to do even if I have to change in order to do it.

That is the context I took it. If the first presidency called me and asked me to be the president of BYU I would pray about it just like anything else.

But I don't want change to mean that I have to accept the new world order. It's not in God's program as I understand His plan.
There's a big difference between what the Lord teaches us and what the church leaders are teaching us. Especially in our day.
Last edited by Reluctant Watchman on February 6th, 2023, 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

cwass
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by cwass »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:45 am
cwass wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:42 am I watched the video. I don't have a problem with the context in which he used change. If the Lord came to me and told me to move my family to Siberia I would hope I'd be willing to change locations even though my family has been in this location for generations.
I want to change for the better or be ready to go or do what the Lord wants me to do even if I have to change in order to do it.

That is the context I took it. If the first presidency called me and asked me to be the president of BYU I would pray about it just like anything else.

But I don't want change to mean that I have to accept the new world order. It's not in God's program as I understand His plan.
There's a big difference between what the Lord teaches us and what the church leaders are teachings us. Especially in our day.
I totally agree with you.

He did not say "you people that won't change and get the vaccine are not following God".

I just didn't have a problem with how he said we need to be open to change. I'm pretty averse to change and I don't want that to be a weakness. All change is hard. Bad change should be called out and righteously opposed. Good change is also difficult and that's what I felt like elder bednar meant in this instance.

I try to oppose bad change (as I imperfectly see it) in the best way I perceive that I can.
These are difficult times and I don't want to let myself criticize every aspect of what people say. Just seemed innocent enough to me.

cwass
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by cwass »

But I could be wrong...who else watched it and can point to a flaw in his words and I will reconsider.

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MikeMaillet
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

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I always keep some change in my pocket. You never know when you'll need it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv39X2UN-k4

Mike

tribrac
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by tribrac »

I think it is unreasonable to ask everyone to accept dramatic changes or leave...if you are unable to present a reasonable, rational explanation for the changes

Yes there is faith, but even the seed of faith can wither if there isn't a place for it to start. The church for years promoted itself as being slow to change, and relied on traditions. So there are (or were) a lot of members who relied on those too. These were faithful people acting and believing what they thought the leaders wanted them to do. Is it too much to acknowledge them, or the difficulty they might have? They were your closest friends, why treat them like an opponent?

I would just like a reason why the Lord changed his plan the day after Monson died.
Last edited by tribrac on February 6th, 2023, 11:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

cwass
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

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Can't find my checkbook, hope you don't mind I pay you in change

https://youtu.be/K6YeWZ_l7cc

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

cwass wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:59 am He did not say "you people that won't change and get the vaccine are not following God".
My stake president did. He called me to repentance for questioning the "safe and effective" claim of these men and for encouraging people not to take the whacky-jab.

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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

cwass wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:00 am But I could be wrong...who else watched it and can point to a flaw in his words and I will reconsider.
Do you believe every change made by these supposed PSRs has been for good or aligns with the scriptures?

cwass
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by cwass »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:12 am
cwass wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:59 am He did not say "you people that won't change and get the vaccine are not following God".
My stake president did. He called me to repentance for questioning the "safe and effective" claim of these men and for encouraging people not to take the whacky-jab.
My stake president asked me if I thought I was smarter than the 15. I said no, just have a different experience than them and no one ever asked me what I thought about the vax. I was released from my bishopric calling soon after.

I believe Joseph Smith and the book of Mormon. It's not his (stake president) church or their (15) church. If they want to kick me out then that's fine...go ahead. Until then I'll try to be productive.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

cwass wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:24 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:12 am
cwass wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:59 am He did not say "you people that won't change and get the vaccine are not following God".
My stake president did. He called me to repentance for questioning the "safe and effective" claim of these men and for encouraging people not to take the whacky-jab.
My stake president asked me if I thought I was smarter than the 15. I said no, just have a different experience than them and no one ever asked me what I thought about the vax. I was released from my bishopric calling soon after.

I believe Joseph Smith and the book of Mormon. It's not his (stake president) church or their (15) church. If they want to kick me out then that's fine...go ahead. Until then I'll try to be productive.
Which begs the question, does/will Christ sustain any such organization that teaches doctrines and philosophies contrary to His gospel?

cwass
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by cwass »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:15 am
cwass wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:00 am But I could be wrong...who else watched it and can point to a flaw in his words and I will reconsider.
Do you believe every change made by these supposed PSRs has been for good or aligns with the scriptures?
Nope.

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MikeMaillet
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

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cwass wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:09 am Can't find my checkbook, hope you don't mind I pay you in change

https://youtu.be/K6YeWZ_l7cc
One day I will have to watch this movie :-)

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

cwass wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:35 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:15 am
cwass wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:00 am But I could be wrong...who else watched it and can point to a flaw in his words and I will reconsider.
Do you believe every change made by these supposed PSRs has been for good or aligns with the scriptures?
Nope.
I agree. That's why this talk from Bednar is interesting. Sure, the premise upon which he spoke is true. We become new creations in Christ as we learn from Him. But for him to make this statement, with all of the other rotten fruit that we've seen since the death of Joseph, is not a step toward this ideal of godhood. Many steps backward in fact.
Last edited by Reluctant Watchman on February 6th, 2023, 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Subcomandante
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

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pho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:30 am
I say that Joseph Smith, with Joseph Smith's mentality back in those days, would NOT be able to run TODAY's Church
I think he could run the Church through the Spirit and Revelations. But you might be right, he would struggle to run the Corporation.
And what if the revelation was had to form the Church as a corporation?

I mean, it had to form up as something before the fiscal authorities not only of the USA, but everywhere else where the Church has representation. Otherwise, they could not function as a Church anywhere.

The Church was formed on 06 April 1830. Every Latter Day Saint knows that. But what was done? It was recognized as such by the State of New York that day, following that jurisdiction's procedures.

Forever
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Forever »

Subcomandante wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:44 am
pho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:30 am
I say that Joseph Smith, with Joseph Smith's mentality back in those days, would NOT be able to run TODAY's Church
I think he could run the Church through the Spirit and Revelations. But you might be right, he would struggle to run the Corporation.
And what if the revelation was had to form the Church as a corporation?

I mean, it had to form up as something before the fiscal authorities not only of the USA, but everywhere else where the Church has representation. Otherwise, they could not function as a Church anywhere.

The Church was formed on 06 April 1830. Every Latter Day Saint knows that. But what was done? It was recognized as such by the State of New York that day, following that jurisdiction's procedures.
More justifying their evil deeds. Those who worship them are running out of defenses.

cwass
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by cwass »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:25 am
cwass wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:24 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:12 am
cwass wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:59 am He did not say "you people that won't change and get the vaccine are not following God".
My stake president did. He called me to repentance for questioning the "safe and effective" claim of these men and for encouraging people not to take the whacky-jab.
My stake president asked me if I thought I was smarter than the 15. I said no, just have a different experience than them and no one ever asked me what I thought about the vax. I was released from my bishopric calling soon after.

I believe Joseph Smith and the book of Mormon. It's not his (stake president) church or their (15) church. If they want to kick me out then that's fine...go ahead. Until then I'll try to be productive.
Which begs the question, does/will Christ sustain any such organization that teaches doctrines and philosophies contrary to His gospel?
I'm assuming the church is being torn apart as we speak. I'm just not sure what's next.

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Niemand
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Niemand »

Subcomandante wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:08 am And one more addition, this is why I say that Joseph Smith, with Joseph Smith's mentality back in those days, would NOT be able to run TODAY's Church, nor would Russell Nelson be able to run the Church in Joseph Smith's day. Each prophet was necessary in that specific time period.
Joseph Smith would be able to start a church today just fine. It just wouldn't resemble the one we're in much.

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