If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

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Fred
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If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Fred »

Embrace change

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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

Is there a synopsis of this? If it's worthwhile, I'll listen.

TwochurchesOnly
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by TwochurchesOnly »

Fred wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:34 pm Embrace change
Wow

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BuriedTartaria
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by BuriedTartaria »

LOL, believe me, that's already done, Bednar. Have fun with your dying institution. Billions can build fancy temples to prop up appearances but you've never been able to produce wide-spread culture-penetrating growth and whatever decent growth (the largest growth was always from within families but missionary efforts yielded middling success for a time) the LDS church had has passed.

Literally the definition of priestcraft;
2 Nephi wrote: for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.

Forever
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Forever »

Fred wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:34 pm Embrace change
I can't stomach it. Can you give us time marks for his most evil remarks?

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BenMcCrea
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by BenMcCrea »

Forever wrote: February 5th, 2023, 11:03 pm
Fred wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:34 pm Embrace change
I can't stomach it. Can you give us time marks for his most evil remarks?
What a ridiculous statement. You haven’t watched it but you say his remarks are evil?

I’ve watched it and everything he says is true.

Forever
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Forever »

BenMcCrea wrote: February 5th, 2023, 11:12 pm
Forever wrote: February 5th, 2023, 11:03 pm
Fred wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:34 pm Embrace change
I can't stomach it. Can you give us time marks for his most evil remarks?
What a ridiculous statement. You haven’t watched it but you say his remarks are evil?

I’ve watched it and everything he says is true.
I've already received many witnesses from God regarding who Bednar and the boys are.

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BenMcCrea
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by BenMcCrea »

Forever wrote: February 5th, 2023, 11:52 pm
BenMcCrea wrote: February 5th, 2023, 11:12 pm
Forever wrote: February 5th, 2023, 11:03 pm
Fred wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:34 pm Embrace change
I can't stomach it. Can you give us time marks for his most evil remarks?
What a ridiculous statement. You haven’t watched it but you say his remarks are evil?

I’ve watched it and everything he says is true.
I've already received many witnesses from God regarding who Bednar and the boys are.
I think your god - as you call him - might be lying to you. I’ll call upon the real God - the Eternal Father - and ask that He will help you.

BringZion
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by BringZion »

Fred wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:34 pm Embrace change
That was great and just what I needed to hear, thanks for sharing!

farmerchick
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by farmerchick »

I found alot of truth in bednars remarks.

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Niemand
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Niemand »

I hate the way that change is now continually presented as if it's something positive. After all, Bednar and the GAs should know that themselves as they have "changed" from young men to creakier, crankier older models.

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ransomme
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by ransomme »

BenMcCrea wrote: February 5th, 2023, 11:12 pm
Forever wrote: February 5th, 2023, 11:03 pm
Fred wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:34 pm Embrace change
I can't stomach it. Can you give us time marks for his most evil remarks?
What a ridiculous statement. You haven’t watched it but you say his remarks are evil?

I’ve watched it and everything he says is true.
Isaiah prophesied about it,

"...because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant." 24:5

We are supposed to progress, but that doesn't require the Church and doctrine to constantly change. That would actually make scripture worthless.

When he goes over there Gospel or doctrine of Christ he forgot the first two ordinances of faith and repentance.

He starts with baptism, "an ordinance of adoption into the family of the Father and the Son". On a scale of 1-10, this is a 0. This doesn't happen until the baptism of fire as seen here in Moses 6,

"66And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever;
67And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.
68Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen."

Or as Moroni put it when talking about charity, "pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ; that ye may become the sons of God;" (7:48)

Baptism is a witness of one's willingness to take upon the name of Christ.

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ransomme
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by ransomme »

farmerchick wrote: February 6th, 2023, 1:57 am I found alot of truth in bednars remarks.
I found fundamental inaccuracies, as seen on my post above. Don't let precepts be mingled with scripture.

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MikeMaillet
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by MikeMaillet »

I turned off the video after four minutes. I've been listening to this mantra about constant change for a few decades now and I just could not bear to hear it again. The remark about getting ready for more change... sounded like some BS coming from another one of those dreaded MBAs. Embrace the new paradigm, blah blah blah, constant change, blah blah blah, new normal... I'm sick of the church looking and sounding more like the business world and it is difficult for me to treat seriously any of these Q15 when they treat the church like a business.

Bednar is correct when he tells us we need to change but the only change we should be concerned with is how we are changing to become more like our Saviour. If we are to establish Zion we need to become one in heart and mind. How shopping malls, stock portfolios and $120,000,000,000 slush funds can achieve this is beyond me.

Hey Bednar, how about making some changes in Sacrament meeting? Is there really a need for Bro. Kaputnik to expound on some boring talk that was given by someone else a few months ago? Do the members of our Wards not have ideas of their own that they have to rely on the wisdom of the sages at the helm?

Hey Bednar, how about changing the way you guys worship statues and have your photos taken with them as if the statues were some sort of Deity.

Hey Bednar, how about taking a walk over to Deseret Books and have them change their focus from pushing gayness to selling stuff that will help our members become more Christlike?

Hey Bednar, are you guys still operating a hunting preserve for the rich? You need to change that.

Hey Bednar, how about taking a walk in some of the slums where some of our members live? That might encourage you to make some changes in how we handle tithing.

Hey Bednar, were you aware that a gay choir performed at the Washington Temple Visitor's Center last December? You need to change that.

Hey Bednar, why did you not pull an Abinadi when the final plans for the mall were being drawn up? You could have helped change the direction of this southbound train we call the church.

Hey Bednar, are you not supposed to be some sort of Prophet, Seer and Revelator? What changes have you made in your life that have allowed you to rub elbows with God? Enquiring minds want to know.

Hey Bednar, I don't like change unless it brings me closer to Christ. The changes you and your ilk are putting into place have encouraged me to leave the church. Bednar, it's not me, it's you!

Mike

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Niemand
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Niemand »

MikeMaillet wrote: February 6th, 2023, 5:43 am I turned off the video after four minutes. I've been listening to this mantra about constant change for a few decades now and I just could not bear to hear it again. The remark about getting ready for more change... sounded like some BS coming from another one of those dreaded MBAs. Embrace the new paradigm, blah blah blah, constant change, blah blah blah, new normal... I'm sick of the church looking and sounding more like the business world and it is difficult for me to treat seriously any of these Q15 when they treat the church like a business.

Bednar is correct when he tells us we need to change but the only change we should be concerned with is how we are changing to become more like our Saviour. If we are to establish Zion we need to become one in heart and mind. How shopping malls, stock portfolios and $120,000,000,000 slush funds can achieve this is beyond me.
It's all one sided. I was criticised recently by someone for "being afraid of change". We saw Obama using "Change" as an election slogan... the main change under his presidency was changing the status of thousands of foreigners from living to dead by bombing them to smithereens.

Change itself is a given. It will happen anyway. But to embrace change for its own sake is just stupid. Maybe a better modern mantra would be "be the change you want to see in the world". At least in that case, the slogan respects free agency not passivity, and adds the element of choice, i.e. for positive change, not just any change for change's sake.

Turns out some of it isn't change either, but the same of lies repackaged. Sexual promiscuity, tyranny and avarice are nothing new and can be found in ancient history. As the old saying goes "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose." (the more it changes, the more it stays the same).

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

We see this type of language frequently by the brethren. Of course the gospel allows us to see the potential we have to become like Elohim. And yes, that requires that we change. Christ’s ministry and message is that of overcoming the natural man and becoming self-less, loving, compassionate, and courageous people. BUT… when taken into the collective message from the church and the actual “fruits” of change, that is what many of us are concerned about. They’ve “changed” nearly every doctrine and teaching of Joseph, and “changed” many things for the worse.

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iWriteStuff
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by iWriteStuff »

Fred wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:34 pm Embrace change
It seems like their goal is for smaller congregations. If that's the change they want, I think they're already starting to see it.

Now watch them crank it up to 11.

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Niemand
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Niemand »

iWriteStuff wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:20 am
Fred wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:34 pm Embrace change
It seems like their goal is for smaller congregations. If that's the change they want, I think they're already starting to see it.

Now watch them crank it up to 11.
I can just imagine:
Reduced unit sizes allow for a more intimate experience with the Savior and President Russell M. Nelson, minimising distraction and increasing nourishing spiritual experience. As Luke 3.17 states: "Whose... hand... will gather the wheat into his garner... unquenchable." Further confirmation can be found in the Book of Eubank (Eubank 9.11) "as we allow for greater allyship and intersectional interdependence, the walls upon our previous prejudices will fall, manifesting the change faith followers require."

tribrac
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by tribrac »

Church feels like Survivor.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Can they back up their changes with quotes from the Lord?

Answer: No.

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iWriteStuff
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by iWriteStuff »

tribrac wrote: February 6th, 2023, 8:32 am Church feels like Survivor.
And the prize for surviving is:

* More shopping malls for the church, less money for Zion
* More cleaned bathroom stalls for you, less budget for the Youth program
* More COVID vaccines for you, less faith in the Lord
* More gaslighting about our history and doctrinal shifts, less truth and transparency
* More leader worship and idolatry, less relationship with Christ

If I'm doing a cost benefit analysis here, it seems like the best option is to get on a different show.

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Subcomandante
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Subcomandante »

I saw nothing wrong with what Bednar said.

Yes, the way Church has to do things changes from time to time, because, surprise, many things in the world change from time to time.

It used to be that missionaries would travel on foot to go from place to place, or by ship if water was in the way.

Now they fly.

It used to be that missionaries would travel without purse nor scrip from place to place.

Now you need money in order to process their visas, and more money in order to send them to their places. No one gets on any form of transport for free. Not unless they stow away.

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Subcomandante
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Subcomandante »

And one more addition, this is why I say that Joseph Smith, with Joseph Smith's mentality back in those days, would NOT be able to run TODAY's Church, nor would Russell Nelson be able to run the Church in Joseph Smith's day. Each prophet was necessary in that specific time period.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

iWriteStuff wrote: February 6th, 2023, 8:39 am
tribrac wrote: February 6th, 2023, 8:32 am Church feels like Survivor.
And the prize for surviving is:
* More cleaned bathroom stalls for you...
Wasn't that part of the temple recommend interview questions? :)

Sunain
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Re: If you don't like change, find another church - Bednar

Post by Sunain »

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

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