Upon this rock I will build my assembly

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Pazooka
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Upon this rock I will build my assembly

Post by Pazooka »

Why does the apostle Peter have a Greek name? He doesn’t.
Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; (ASV, Matthew 10:2)

Peter’s original name, according to the Greek text is Simon son of Jonah (John 21:15). However, being a Jew, his Hebrew name would have been שמעון בן יונה (shimon ben yonah). The name שמעון (shimon, Strong's #559) means "heard." In Mark 3:16 we are told that Yeshua (Jesus) gives Shimon the name Peter (Petros in Greek), a Greek name that has no equivalency in Hebrew. However, in John 1:42 we are told that his new name is, according to the Greek, Kephas (Cephas), not Petros (Peter). Kephas is a Greek transliteration of the Aramaic name כאפא (Kepha, pronounced kee-phah) meaning "stone."

And I tell you, that you are Kepha, and upon this rock (kepha) I will build my assembly. (Matthew 16:18 from the Peshitta, a 4th Century Aramaic New Testament) ~ Jeff Benner, https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/names/Peter.htm
Kepha/Cephas is a name associated with the high priest. In fact, that is where the name of the wicked high priest, Caiaphas, comes from.

I wonder if it has anything to do with 1 Peter 2:5? you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

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Niemand
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Re: Upon this rock I will build my assembly

Post by Niemand »

Simon (Shimon), James (Yacob), John (Yochanan) are all common Jewish names. There are a number of Simons, Judases (Yehuda), Josephs (Yosef) and Jacobs in the Bible.

I argued that Simon of Cyrene was a Jew based on his name:
viewtopic.php?t=69537

Not sure about Andrew though. That is the Greek word for "man". Adam also means "man". Maybe Andrew's real name was Adam.

Mark does have a Roman name (Marcus).

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Pazooka
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Re: Upon this rock I will build my assembly

Post by Pazooka »

Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:06 pm Simon (Shimon), James (Yacob), John (Yochanan) are all common Jewish names. There are a number of Simons, Judases (Yehuda), Josephs (Yosef) and Jacobs in the Bible.

I argued that Simon of Cyrene was a Jew based on his name:
viewtopic.php?t=69537

Not sure about Andrew though. That is the Greek word for "man". Adam also means "man". Maybe Andrew's real name was Adam.

Mark does have a Roman name (Marcus).
Hey, that’s a good guess for Andrew. It is thought it comes from “andros” (“man”) - so you might be right.

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Niemand
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Re: Upon this rock I will build my assembly

Post by Niemand »

Pazooka wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:13 pm
Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:06 pm Simon (Shimon), James (Yacob), John (Yochanan) are all common Jewish names. There are a number of Simons, Judases (Yehuda), Josephs (Yosef) and Jacobs in the Bible.

I argued that Simon of Cyrene was a Jew based on his name:
viewtopic.php?t=69537

Not sure about Andrew though. That is the Greek word for "man". Adam also means "man". Maybe Andrew's real name was Adam.

Mark does have a Roman name (Marcus).
Hey, that’s a good guess for Andrew. It is thought it comes from “andros” (“man”) - so you might be right.
It's interesting to work out where some of these things originate from.

"Craig" is quite a common name in Scotland. It is an old Celtic word for a rock and may well be a doublet of "Peter" even though most people aren't aware of that. "Charles/Karl", "Adam" and "Andrew/Andros" all mean the same thing.

"Phillip" is also a Greek name, but I'm not sure what the Hebrew/Aramaic equivalent is.

"Mark" (Marcus) – could this be some version of Mordecai?

"Matthew" – real name Levi.
"Dorcas" – real name Tabitha
"Bartholomew" – real name Nathaniel

What if these men took on a new name much like current Popes do?

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Pazooka
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Re: Upon this rock I will build my assembly

Post by Pazooka »

Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:23 pm
Pazooka wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:13 pm
Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:06 pm Simon (Shimon), James (Yacob), John (Yochanan) are all common Jewish names. There are a number of Simons, Judases (Yehuda), Josephs (Yosef) and Jacobs in the Bible.

I argued that Simon of Cyrene was a Jew based on his name:
viewtopic.php?t=69537

Not sure about Andrew though. That is the Greek word for "man". Adam also means "man". Maybe Andrew's real name was Adam.

Mark does have a Roman name (Marcus).
Hey, that’s a good guess for Andrew. It is thought it comes from “andros” (“man”) - so you might be right.
It's interesting to work out where some of these things originate from.

"Craig" is quite a common name in Scotland. It is an old Celtic word for a rock and may well be a doublet of "Peter" even though most people aren't aware of that. "Charles/Karl", "Adam" and "Andrew/Andros" all mean the same thing.

"Phillip" is also a Greek name, but I'm not sure what the Hebrew/Aramaic equivalent is.

"Mark" (Marcus) – could this be some version of Mordecai?

"Matthew" – real name Levi.
"Dorcas" – real name Tabitha
"Bartholomew" – real name Nathaniel

What if these men took on a new name much like current Popes do?
I doubt they were called by Greek names while they lived. It would have been the compilers of the NT that gave them those names.

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Niemand
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Re: Upon this rock I will build my assembly

Post by Niemand »

Pazooka wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:57 pm
Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:23 pm
Pazooka wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:13 pm
Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:06 pm Simon (Shimon), James (Yacob), John (Yochanan) are all common Jewish names. There are a number of Simons, Judases (Yehuda), Josephs (Yosef) and Jacobs in the Bible.

I argued that Simon of Cyrene was a Jew based on his name:
viewtopic.php?t=69537

Not sure about Andrew though. That is the Greek word for "man". Adam also means "man". Maybe Andrew's real name was Adam.

Mark does have a Roman name (Marcus).
Hey, that’s a good guess for Andrew. It is thought it comes from “andros” (“man”) - so you might be right.
It's interesting to work out where some of these things originate from.

"Craig" is quite a common name in Scotland. It is an old Celtic word for a rock and may well be a doublet of "Peter" even though most people aren't aware of that. "Charles/Karl", "Adam" and "Andrew/Andros" all mean the same thing.

"Phillip" is also a Greek name, but I'm not sure what the Hebrew/Aramaic equivalent is.

"Mark" (Marcus) – could this be some version of Mordecai?

"Matthew" – real name Levi.
"Dorcas" – real name Tabitha
"Bartholomew" – real name Nathaniel

What if these men took on a new name much like current Popes do?
I doubt they were called by Greek names while they lived. It would have been the compilers of the NT that gave them those names.
I think this is right, although it's not impossible.

In bilingual areas, people can have more than one name.

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Pazooka
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Re: Upon this rock I will build my assembly

Post by Pazooka »

Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:13 pm
Pazooka wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:57 pm
Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:23 pm
Pazooka wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:13 pm
Hey, that’s a good guess for Andrew. It is thought it comes from “andros” (“man”) - so you might be right.
It's interesting to work out where some of these things originate from.

"Craig" is quite a common name in Scotland. It is an old Celtic word for a rock and may well be a doublet of "Peter" even though most people aren't aware of that. "Charles/Karl", "Adam" and "Andrew/Andros" all mean the same thing.

"Phillip" is also a Greek name, but I'm not sure what the Hebrew/Aramaic equivalent is.

"Mark" (Marcus) – could this be some version of Mordecai?

"Matthew" – real name Levi.
"Dorcas" – real name Tabitha
"Bartholomew" – real name Nathaniel

What if these men took on a new name much like current Popes do?
I doubt they were called by Greek names while they lived. It would have been the compilers of the NT that gave them those names.
I think this is right, although it's not impossible.

In bilingual areas, people can have more than one name.
It is thought that they would have conversed in Aramaic, understood and used Hebrew and known just enough Greek of the Galilean dialect to converse with foreigners. I doubt they would have adopted foreign names because of the political climate of the time. They probably would have cringed at the mere thought.

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Niemand
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Re: Upon this rock I will build my assembly

Post by Niemand »

Pazooka wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:16 pm
Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:13 pm
Pazooka wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:57 pm
Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:23 pm

It's interesting to work out where some of these things originate from.

"Craig" is quite a common name in Scotland. It is an old Celtic word for a rock and may well be a doublet of "Peter" even though most people aren't aware of that. "Charles/Karl", "Adam" and "Andrew/Andros" all mean the same thing.

"Phillip" is also a Greek name, but I'm not sure what the Hebrew/Aramaic equivalent is.

"Mark" (Marcus) – could this be some version of Mordecai?

"Matthew" – real name Levi.
"Dorcas" – real name Tabitha
"Bartholomew" – real name Nathaniel

What if these men took on a new name much like current Popes do?
I doubt they were called by Greek names while they lived. It would have been the compilers of the NT that gave them those names.
I think this is right, although it's not impossible.

In bilingual areas, people can have more than one name.
It is thought that they would have conversed in Aramaic, understood and used Hebrew and known just enough Greek of the Galilean dialect to converse with foreigners. I doubt they would have adopted foreign names because of the political climate of the time. They probably would have cringed at the mere thought.
It's not uncommon. "Peter" was occasionally used in Scotland and Ireland to render "Pàdraig" (Patrick) into English even though the names are unrelated. "Somhairle" (Sorley/Somerled) becomes the Biblical "Samuel" even though the original name is unrelated.

It is very common for Chinese and some other East Asians to have western names in addition to their native ones. We have a few Chinese converts who do that. Some native Americans would be similar in the old days, a native name and an English one.

Jesus knew Aramaic and Hebrew (which are similar) according to the scriptures, and talked with Romans (presumably in Greek, possibly Latin), and seems to have had Hebrew, Greek and Latin above his cross. I think he spoke four languages on this basis.

Matthew as a tax collector for the Romans presumably knew Latin and/or Greek to communicate with the authorities.

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nightlight
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Re: Upon this rock I will build my assembly

Post by nightlight »

Pazooka wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:16 pm
Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:13 pm
Pazooka wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:57 pm
Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:23 pm

It's interesting to work out where some of these things originate from.

"Craig" is quite a common name in Scotland. It is an old Celtic word for a rock and may well be a doublet of "Peter" even though most people aren't aware of that. "Charles/Karl", "Adam" and "Andrew/Andros" all mean the same thing.

"Phillip" is also a Greek name, but I'm not sure what the Hebrew/Aramaic equivalent is.

"Mark" (Marcus) – could this be some version of Mordecai?

"Matthew" – real name Levi.
"Dorcas" – real name Tabitha
"Bartholomew" – real name Nathaniel

What if these men took on a new name much like current Popes do?
I doubt they were called by Greek names while they lived. It would have been the compilers of the NT that gave them those names.
I think this is right, although it's not impossible.

In bilingual areas, people can have more than one name.
It is thought that they would have conversed in Aramaic, understood and used Hebrew and known just enough Greek of the Galilean dialect to converse with foreigners. I doubt they would have adopted foreign names because of the political climate of the time. They probably would have cringed at the mere thought.
Great men have different names to different people. Anyone of consequence understand this, and any who would be offended by said names... wouldn't be of consequence in the first place

Jesus cares that we call him Jesus?
Do you think the name we use is random?

Don't you think God knew he would be called Jesus in the last days, before the earth was even formed?

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Pazooka
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Posts: 5222
Location: FEMA District 8

Re: Upon this rock I will build my assembly

Post by Pazooka »

Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:29 pm
Pazooka wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:16 pm
Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:13 pm
Pazooka wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:57 pm

I doubt they were called by Greek names while they lived. It would have been the compilers of the NT that gave them those names.
I think this is right, although it's not impossible.

In bilingual areas, people can have more than one name.
It is thought that they would have conversed in Aramaic, understood and used Hebrew and known just enough Greek of the Galilean dialect to converse with foreigners. I doubt they would have adopted foreign names because of the political climate of the time. They probably would have cringed at the mere thought.
It's not uncommon. "Peter" was occasionally used in Scotland and Ireland to render "Pàdraig" (Patrick) into English even though the names are unrelated. "Somhairle" (Sorley/Somerled) becomes the Biblical "Samuel" even though the original name is unrelated.

It is very common for Chinese and some other East Asians to have western names in addition to their native ones. We have a few Chinese converts who do that. Some native Americans would be similar in the old days, a native name and an English one.

Jesus knew Aramaic and Hebrew (which are similar) according to the scriptures, and talked with Romans (presumably in Greek, possibly Latin), and seems to have had Hebrew, Greek and Latin above his cross. I think he spoke four languages on this basis.

Matthew as a tax collector for the Romans presumably knew Latin and/or Greek to communicate with the authorities.
Yes, there is evidence Matthew viewed his old life as a tax collector for Rome with humble regret.

Because he had repented of many sins, and had risen from the receipt of custom and followed him who came for man’s salvation and said, ‘I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance, it was Matthew’s duty to present the message of salvation first as an example for us, who would be saved like this man who was restored in the tax office and turned from his iniquity.”
(Quote is from The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis, Tr. Frank Williams, BRILL, Boston, Mass. 1987)

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Pazooka
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Re: Upon this rock I will build my assembly

Post by Pazooka »

nightlight wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:43 pm
Pazooka wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:16 pm
Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:13 pm
Pazooka wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:57 pm

I doubt they were called by Greek names while they lived. It would have been the compilers of the NT that gave them those names.
I think this is right, although it's not impossible.

In bilingual areas, people can have more than one name.
It is thought that they would have conversed in Aramaic, understood and used Hebrew and known just enough Greek of the Galilean dialect to converse with foreigners. I doubt they would have adopted foreign names because of the political climate of the time. They probably would have cringed at the mere thought.
Great men have different names to different people. Anyone of consequence understand this, and any who would be offended by said names... wouldn't be of consequence in the first place

Jesus cares that we call him Jesus?
Do you think the name we use is random?

Don't you think God knew he would be called Jesus in the last days, before the earth was even formed?
I really don’t know if Jesus cares that Gentiles call Him by a Gentile name or whether or not it’s offensive to Him. But of course God knew what name He would be called by them.

But I DID come across this in the JS-History, today and thought the wording was interesting:

…We on a certain day went into the woods to pray and inquire of the Lord respecting baptism for the remission of sins, that we found mentioned in the translation of the plates. While we were thus employed, praying and calling upon the Lord, a messenger from heaven descended in a cloud of light, and having laid his hands upon us, he ordained us, saying: Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron.

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