At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

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Lemarque
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Lemarque »

Forever wrote: February 5th, 2023, 6:57 pm Jenny makes a lot of money from selling her CDs via Deseret Book. Of course she is expected to push their evil agenda.
I've heard a lot of unbelievable conspiracy theories here on LDSFF, but this one takes the cake.

Someone making a lot of money from selling CDs at a regional bookstore? That's just a bit too far-fetched for me. Do people even buy CDs anymore?

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JLHPROF
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by JLHPROF »

Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 5th, 2023, 6:24 pm
anonymous91 wrote: February 5th, 2023, 5:01 pm I think she needs to read this carefully.
I think she’s evil.
That's a pretty outrageous label to slap on someone you don't know.

Forever
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Forever »

JLHPROF wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:50 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 5th, 2023, 6:24 pm
anonymous91 wrote: February 5th, 2023, 5:01 pm I think she needs to read this carefully.
I think she’s evil.
That's a pretty outrageous label to slap on someone you don't know.
It's the same thing the Holy Ghost told me about her and her buddies.....repeatedly.

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Gadianton Slayer
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

JLHPROF wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:50 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 5th, 2023, 6:24 pm
anonymous91 wrote: February 5th, 2023, 5:01 pm I think she needs to read this carefully.
I think she’s evil.
That's a pretty outrageous label to slap on someone you don't know.
She’s teaching anti-Christ doctrines that are evil, and my bold assumption is that she’s smart enough for it not to be ignorantly. Willingly teaching evil means being evil in my book.

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Mindfields
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Mindfields »

Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 1:51 pm
Robin Hood wrote: February 5th, 2023, 1:45 pm I think it's commendable that he does this. However, he would learn a lot more if he visited in disguise.
Ironically that would be a good excuse to mask up.

Best thing he could do is cultivate some informants (or "touts"). Folk at ground level who would be honest with him.
I was thinking more like a nice, appropriately modest dress with flats and a matching purse. "Did you see that lady? She looks just like President Oaks!"

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JLHPROF
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by JLHPROF »

Forever wrote: February 5th, 2023, 11:05 pm
JLHPROF wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:50 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 5th, 2023, 6:24 pm
anonymous91 wrote: February 5th, 2023, 5:01 pm I think she needs to read this carefully.
I think she’s evil.
That's a pretty outrageous label to slap on someone you don't know.
It's the same thing the Holy Ghost told me about her and her buddies.....repeatedly.
" A circumstance of this kind took place in Upper Canada, but was rebuked by the presiding Elder; another, a woman near the same place, professed to have the discerning spirits, and began to accuse another sister of things that she was not guilty of, which she said she knew was so by the spirit, but was afterwards proven to be false; she placed herself in the capacity of the "accuser of the brethren," and no person through the discerning of spirits can bring a charge against another, they must be proven guilty by positive evidence, or they stand clear."
Joseph Smith

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:35 am
Forever wrote: February 5th, 2023, 11:05 pm
JLHPROF wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:50 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 5th, 2023, 6:24 pm
I think she’s evil.
That's a pretty outrageous label to slap on someone you don't know.
It's the same thing the Holy Ghost told me about her and her buddies.....repeatedly.
" A circumstance of this kind took place in Upper Canada, but was rebuked by the presiding Elder; another, a woman near the same place, professed to have the discerning spirits, and began to accuse another sister of things that she was not guilty of, which she said she knew was so by the spirit, but was afterwards proven to be false; she placed herself in the capacity of the "accuser of the brethren," and no person through the discerning of spirits can bring a charge against another, they must be proven guilty by positive evidence, or they stand clear."
Joseph Smith
What Jenny said leads to idolatry. It is idolatry. Is idolatry not evil? What she said is wrong.

As far as her as a person? I cannot speak to that. I’ve had a lot more compassion for people who’ve been abused through mind control and conditioning. The church uses many of the same tactics. Certainly we must be capable of judging the fruits or words of a person. All members of the church are not evil. But many of their practices are described in scripture as abominations and contradict the literal word of God.

blitzinstripes
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by blitzinstripes »

We had a guy get up yesterday and rebuke the church and share some personal things that made everyone squirm in their seats. The stake president was there on the stand. I thought it was AWESOME.

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Gadianton Slayer
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:35 am "...they must be proven guilty by positive evidence..."
Joseph Smith
Done.

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JLHPROF
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by JLHPROF »

Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:52 am
JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:35 am "...they must be proven guilty by positive evidence..."
Joseph Smith
Done.
You have positive evidence that Jenny Oaks Baker is an evil person? Wow.
Impressive. Not that she did something wrong, but that she herself is evil. Because that's what you wrote.

I guess that's better than Forever's knowledge that's she's evil by the Holy Ghost (which Joseph said wasn't valid).

Forever
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Forever »

JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:10 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:52 am
JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:35 am "...they must be proven guilty by positive evidence..."
Joseph Smith
Done.
You have positive evidence that Jenny Oaks Baker is an evil person? Wow.
Impressive.

I guess that's better than Forever's knowledge that's she's evil by the Holy Ghost (which Joseph said wasn't valid).
We've been commanded to judge by their fruits. Words out of their mouths, their demeanor and darkness are fruits that we can both see and hear.

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JLHPROF
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by JLHPROF »

Forever wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:13 pm
JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:10 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:52 am
JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:35 am "...they must be proven guilty by positive evidence..."
Joseph Smith
Done.
You have positive evidence that Jenny Oaks Baker is an evil person? Wow.
Impressive.

I guess that's better than Forever's knowledge that's she's evil by the Holy Ghost (which Joseph said wasn't valid).
We've been commanded to judge by their fruits. Words out of their mouths, their demeanor and darkness are fruits that we can both see and hear.
Funny.
I was just having the same thoughts about a lot of this board's residents reading these posts.
The resident spirit and fruits here really strengthens my testimony in the restoration seeing the spirit of those fighting everything from Brigham to present day.
Darkness of demeanor is very accurate. There's so little love for anyone in the Church.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:17 pm I was just having the same thoughts about a lot of this board's residents reading these posts.
The resident spirit and fruits here really strengthens my testimony in the restoration seeing the spirit of those fighting everything from Brigham to present day.
Darkness of demeanor is very accurate. There's so little love for anyone in the Church.
The question should be, is correct doctrine being taught in the church? Do they teach doctrines that contradict Christ's teachings?

Is it wrong to fight for true doctrine as contained in the scriptures, and as taught by Joseph (if we receive a witness of the spirit)? Is it equally wrong to condemn false doctrine, teachings, and practices?

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Gadianton Slayer
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:10 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:52 am
JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:35 am "...they must be proven guilty by positive evidence..."
Joseph Smith
Done.
You have positive evidence that Jenny Oaks Baker is an evil person? Wow.
Impressive. Not that she did something wrong, but that she herself is evil. Because that's what you wrote.

I guess that's better than Forever's knowledge that's she's evil by the Holy Ghost (which Joseph said wasn't valid).
Did you even read the post I quoted you in before this?

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Dusty Wanderer
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Dusty Wanderer »

Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 10:27 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:57 am
Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:51 am Tell a story about how someone was out in the woods and was stung by poison oak. (That is a thing over in North America, isn't it?) :?
I’m not so sure how this AI response would go… :)
Growing up, I was always taught to have faith in my religious leaders and to trust in their guidance and wisdom. I never questioned their authority or doubted their teachings. However, one summer I was on a camping trip with my church and I got a severe case of poison oak. I was in so much pain and I couldn't find any relief, no matter what I tried.

When I went to the leaders for help, they simply told me that it was a test of my faith and that I needed to have more trust in God's plan. They didn't offer any practical solutions or any kind of medical help. I was left to suffer and I felt completely abandoned. This experience shattered my faith in my religious leaders and made me question everything I had been taught about trust and obedience.

It was a difficult and painful journey, but I eventually came to realize that faith in God doesn't necessarily mean blind obedience to religious leaders. I learned that true faith requires us to think for ourselves and make informed decisions, even if it means going against the norm. It's important to have trust and respect for our leaders, but it's equally important to question and seek understanding for ourselves.

This experience with poison oak may seem small, but it had a profound impact on my spiritual journey and my relationship with my faith. It taught me to have a deeper understanding of what true faith is and to always seek guidance from God, rather than relying solely on human leaders.
Wow! That actually sounds a bit paint by numbers but authentic...
Just like so many conference talks.

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JLHPROF
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by JLHPROF »

Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:33 pm
JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:10 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:52 am
JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:35 am "...they must be proven guilty by positive evidence..."
Joseph Smith
Done.
You have positive evidence that Jenny Oaks Baker is an evil person? Wow.
Impressive. Not that she did something wrong, but that she herself is evil. Because that's what you wrote.

I guess that's better than Forever's knowledge that's she's evil by the Holy Ghost (which Joseph said wasn't valid).
Did you even read the post I quoted you in before this?
You mean "She’s teaching anti-Christ doctrines that are evil, and my bold assumption is that she’s smart enough for it not to be ignorantly. Willingly teaching evil means being evil in my book."

Yes, I read it.
I have reached the point in my life where just because someone teaches or advocates something I disagree with I don't label them as the devil.
Just because someone is wrong, doesn't make them evil.
That goes for politics and religion. People make mistakes, preach incorrect doctrines, and advocate for false paths. I see it every day in all areas of life. It's on this board regularly but I don't consider any of you evil just because you're wrong.

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Dusty Wanderer
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Dusty Wanderer »

Lemarque wrote: February 5th, 2023, 12:03 pm I had always assumed the loud, deep "amen" that the microphones at general conference pick up after talks were his. After today, I can testify it is him. He starts saying it a little later than most everyone else, which makes it even more pronounced.
I actually prefer a good hearty 'amen'. The response should resonate the group's 'so be it'. Then when it is absent, or diminished, it's clear that the group is like 'whatevs' or 'if you say so'.

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Gadianton Slayer
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:39 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:33 pm
JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:10 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:52 am
Done.
You have positive evidence that Jenny Oaks Baker is an evil person? Wow.
Impressive. Not that she did something wrong, but that she herself is evil. Because that's what you wrote.

I guess that's better than Forever's knowledge that's she's evil by the Holy Ghost (which Joseph said wasn't valid).
Did you even read the post I quoted you in before this?
You mean "She’s teaching anti-Christ doctrines that are evil, and my bold assumption is that she’s smart enough for it not to be ignorantly. Willingly teaching evil means being evil in my book."

Yes, I read it.
I have reached the point in my life where just because someone teaches or advocates something I disagree with I don't label them as the devil.
Just because someone is wrong, doesn't make them evil.
That goes for politics and religion. People make mistakes, preach incorrect doctrines, and advocate for false paths. I see it every day in all areas of life. It's on this board regularly but I don't consider any of you evil just because you're wrong.
So you don’t think that willfully teaching doctrines that blatantly contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ is evil?

There’s no question about infallibility doctrine BTW. It’s anti-Christ. I don’t think a mentally or logically competent person would disagree. The leaders even admit themselves that they are capable of leading astray. That’s what makes it evil.

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JLHPROF
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by JLHPROF »

Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:51 pm
JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:39 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:33 pm
JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:10 pm

You have positive evidence that Jenny Oaks Baker is an evil person? Wow.
Impressive. Not that she did something wrong, but that she herself is evil. Because that's what you wrote.

I guess that's better than Forever's knowledge that's she's evil by the Holy Ghost (which Joseph said wasn't valid).
Did you even read the post I quoted you in before this?
You mean "She’s teaching anti-Christ doctrines that are evil, and my bold assumption is that she’s smart enough for it not to be ignorantly. Willingly teaching evil means being evil in my book."

Yes, I read it.
I have reached the point in my life where just because someone teaches or advocates something I disagree with I don't label them as the devil.
Just because someone is wrong, doesn't make them evil.
That goes for politics and religion. People make mistakes, preach incorrect doctrines, and advocate for false paths. I see it every day in all areas of life. It's on this board regularly but I don't consider any of you evil just because you're wrong.
So you don’t think that willfully teaching doctrines that blatantly contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ is evil?

There’s no question about infallibility doctrine BTW. It’s anti-Christ. I don’t think a mentally or logically competent person would disagree. The leaders even admit themselves that they are capable of leading astray. That’s what makes it evil.
I don't think teaching false doctrine makes you evil. It makes you wrong. I don't even think teaching doctrines that appear to contradict the gospel make you evil.
I think in order to be truly evil you would have to be actually of the mind where you knowingly choose evil - ie you see the sun shine at noonday and deny it etc.
Again, just because someone is wrong it doesn't make them evil.
I guarantee you that Baker believes what she says is correct, true, and in keeping with the gospel.

TwochurchesOnly
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by TwochurchesOnly »

Mindfields wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:33 am
Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 1:51 pm
Robin Hood wrote: February 5th, 2023, 1:45 pm I think it's commendable that he does this. However, he would learn a lot more if he visited in disguise.
Ironically that would be a good excuse to mask up.

Best thing he could do is cultivate some informants (or "touts"). Folk at ground level who would be honest with him.
I was thinking more like a nice, appropriately modest dress with flats and a matching purse. "Did you see that lady? She looks just like President Oaks!"
😳🤣😆

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JLHPROF
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by JLHPROF »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:24 pm
JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:17 pm I was just having the same thoughts about a lot of this board's residents reading these posts.
The resident spirit and fruits here really strengthens my testimony in the restoration seeing the spirit of those fighting everything from Brigham to present day.
Darkness of demeanor is very accurate. There's so little love for anyone in the Church.
The question should be, is correct doctrine being taught in the church? Do they teach doctrines that contradict Christ's teachings?

Is it wrong to fight for true doctrine as contained in the scriptures, and as taught by Joseph (if we receive a witness of the spirit)? Is it equally wrong to condemn false doctrine, teachings, and practices?
It's not wrong to advocate for truth, true doctrine or good. It's not wrong to condemn false doctrine or teachings.
But if we're speaking about truth as taught by Joseph then I agree with Joseph:

“I never thought it was right to call up a man and try him because he erred in doctrine. . . . I want the liberty of believing as I please, it feels so good not to be trammelled. It don’t prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine.” Joseph Smith

Let me say that again for all the posters on this thread - "It don’t prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine."

I don't agree with labelling any leader or member of the Church as EVIL just because they're wrong.

And I'll add:
Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be cin danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

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Gadianton Slayer
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:59 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:51 pm
JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:39 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: February 6th, 2023, 12:33 pm
Did you even read the post I quoted you in before this?
You mean "She’s teaching anti-Christ doctrines that are evil, and my bold assumption is that she’s smart enough for it not to be ignorantly. Willingly teaching evil means being evil in my book."

Yes, I read it.
I have reached the point in my life where just because someone teaches or advocates something I disagree with I don't label them as the devil.
Just because someone is wrong, doesn't make them evil.
That goes for politics and religion. People make mistakes, preach incorrect doctrines, and advocate for false paths. I see it every day in all areas of life. It's on this board regularly but I don't consider any of you evil just because you're wrong.
So you don’t think that willfully teaching doctrines that blatantly contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ is evil?

There’s no question about infallibility doctrine BTW. It’s anti-Christ. I don’t think a mentally or logically competent person would disagree. The leaders even admit themselves that they are capable of leading astray. That’s what makes it evil.
I don't think teaching false doctrine makes you evil. It makes you wrong. I don't even think teaching doctrines that appear to contradict the gospel make you evil.
I think in order to be truly evil you would have to be actually of the mind where you knowingly choose evil - ie you see the sun shine at noonday and deny it etc.
Again, just because someone is wrong it doesn't make them evil.
I guarantee you that Baker believes what she says is correct, true, and in keeping with the gospel.
You can guarantee all you’d like, but you’re making the same assumptions as me. I don’t agree with you conclusion, oh well.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

JLHPROF wrote: February 6th, 2023, 1:05 pm Let me say that again for all the posters on this thread - "It don’t prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine."
I agree w/ Joseph, but that's not what is happening in the case of the current PSRs. At least w/some of them. You can't event begin a discussion about how you think they are wrong w/o the condemnation of leadership. We've made idols of men.

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Luke
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Luke »

Lemarque wrote: February 5th, 2023, 12:03 pm I had always assumed the loud, deep "amen" that the microphones at general conference pick up after talks were his. After today, I can testify it is him. He starts saying it a little later than most everyone else, which makes it even more pronounced.
I do this too 😁

Lemarque
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Re: At a baby blessing right now, Pres oaks just showed up.

Post by Lemarque »

Yesterday at ward council I told this story about Oaks randomly showing up at the ward I had attended last week.

First response from the R.S. president, "Did you feel the spirit overpower you when he walked in the room?"

I wasn't really expecting a response like that, so I jokingly said, "No, I'm always overpowered by the spirit so I didn't notice anything different."

Then she says that she went to a meeting that Elder Holland came to and how immediately when he walked in the door "you could just tell" he was there because the spirit immediately became so strong.

Then the bishop started getting tears in his eyes talking about how amazing it is to attend general conference in person and how strong the spirit is when the first presidency walks in.

Then the Elder's Quorum president, who just barely got put in as Elder's Quorum president (this was his first ward council) says, "that's the feeling I got when I walked in this room today." He's brand new to the ward, and so far all of my interactions with him have been something like that. He's what I call a "Spirituality Forcer". Anyone who has been on a mission, or went to EFY or on Trek, knows the type of leader I'm talking about.

I know leader worship is a big idol in the church today, but holy cow. I was expecting a response of something like "cool story, bro" and instead got multiple testimonies of how amazing it is to just be in their presence. It's ridiculous.

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