Temple Interview

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Forever
captain of 50
Posts: 78

Re: Temple Interview

Post by Forever »

BroJones wrote: February 5th, 2023, 7:43 am Does "sustain" mean that we think the Q15 are infallible? Certainly not (IMHO) - but you might ask that question of the interviewer. If he says it means "infallible", ask for supporting scripture - or Handbook. (Can't be found.)

I don't think they are infallible. I did not get the jab.
I sustain them with that understanding - that they make can and do make mistakes.

The Lord allows for mistakes, agency, and growth. That's basically the reason for the Atoning Gift of Jesus Christ.
Evil alliances and evil agendas does not equal leaders just making mistakes. How many members are now dead because of their "mistakes"?

GeeR
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1635

Re: Temple Interview

Post by GeeR »

Forever wrote: February 5th, 2023, 2:08 pm
BroJones wrote: February 5th, 2023, 7:43 am Does "sustain" mean that we think the Q15 are infallible? Certainly not (IMHO) - but you might ask that question of the interviewer. If he says it means "infallible", ask for supporting scripture - or Handbook. (Can't be found.)

I don't think they are infallible. I did not get the jab.
I sustain them with that understanding - that they make can and do make mistakes.

The Lord allows for mistakes, agency, and growth. That's basically the reason for the Atoning Gift of Jesus Christ.
Evil alliances and evil agendas does not equal leaders just making mistakes. How many members are now dead because of their "mistakes"?
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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BigT
captain of 100
Posts: 737

Re: Temple Interview

Post by BigT »

Vernet wrote: February 5th, 2023, 12:29 pm For me, endowment prior to changes of the 90s, was not a good experience. Left me with doubts from the get-go. Went on a mission, came home and never had the desire to go again. If it works for you, then good for you. Personally, I never liked the temple experience. I am still a member, recently divorced and my ex wife would go often to the temple and come home different. Not enlightened but distant, odd. Now I see the temple as a force that destroyed my family. Still a member, please don't judge me.
When my first wife and I used to go to the temple, near the end of our marriage, she’d rag on me all the way to the temple, then be nice on the way home. I finally told her I’m not doing that anymore. And then we divorced.

Forever
captain of 50
Posts: 78

Re: Temple Interview

Post by Forever »

I would like to know perfectly what Christ revealed to Joseph regarding what He needed us to do inside temples. This knowledge would clear up the polygamy debate and upset many who have spent hundreds of hours doing genealogy and temple work. I do know that we are to be sealed to the great father Patriarchs and not sealed to each other. And with only the lesser priesthood, doesn't this bring into question the need for temples?

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SmilingPatriot
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Posts: 63

Re: Temple Interview

Post by SmilingPatriot »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 5th, 2023, 8:00 am This may be worth repeating:
This first quote doesn’t include the words “never lead astray”, but it helps set the tone that from early on church leaders required blind obedience, regardless of the request being right or wrong.

Nov. 8, 1857 - Heber C. Kimball, SLC, Journal of Discourses 6:32

“…WAKE UP! WAKE UP, YE ELDERS OF ISRAEL, AND LIVE TO GOD and none else; and learn to do as you are told, both old and young: learn to do as you are told for the future. And when you are taking a position, if you do not know that you are right, do not take it—I mean independently. But if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it. None of your business whether it is right or wrong.”

1860 - Orson Hyde. The following quote comes from meeting minutes where 7 of the brethren were discussing the Adam-God theory presented by Brigham Young the previous evening. Orson Pratt rebutted the teaching as false. Orson Hyde responded:

“I do not feel competent to take up the points of difficulties between bro. Pratt, and bro Young… [But] to acknowledge that this is the Kingdom of God, and that there is a presiding power, and to admit that he can advance incorrect doctrine, is to lay the ax at the foot of the tree. Will he suffer His mouthpiece to go into error? No. he would remove him, and place another there… Bro. Brigham is responsible for the doctrine taught in this Church, and if he did not watch us, and reprove us when wrong, he would not do his duty…he is the presiding authority of God on the earth, then he is legitimate, and everything opposed to him, is not legitimate…God is a jealous God, and His servants are jealous with a Godly jealousy, that the stream may roll in purity.

Feb. 23, 1862 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 9:289

“The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother’s arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth. Your leaders are trying to live their religion as far as [they are] capable of doing so.”

Aug. 31, 1873 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 16th Volume, p. 161, reported by George Q. Cannon)

"If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason."



Oct. 6, 1890—Wilford Woodruff, Official Declaration 1

“The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty.” (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)



1937 – Children’s Hymnbook song “Follow the Prophet”, Duane E. Hiatt

Follow the prophet, follow the prophet,

Follow the prophet; don’t go astray.

Follow the prophet, follow the prophet,

Follow the prophet; he knows the way.



June 1945 – Heber J. Grant, Improvement Era, Ward Teachers’ Message

"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan—it is God’s plan. When they point the way, there is no other way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy. God works in no other way."



Oct. 1960 – Marion G. Romney (quoting Heber J. Grant) Conference Report, General Priesthood meeting

“My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.” Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, “But you don’t need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray.”

Repeated in the Ensign, July 1972, “The Covenant of the Priesthood”



Oct. 1961 – Franklin Dewey Richards, Conference Report (archive link)

“A seer then is one who may see God, who may talk with God, who may receive personal instruction from God. Our prophet is a seer and a revelator. I do not know who originally taught the doctrine. I was told once that it was taught by President Heber J. Grant, but I was taught this doctrine by Elder Marion G. Romney, who told me that the Lord will never let his prophet, the seer, lead his people astray. Men in all ranks on this earth and in the Church have fallen from grace, but the Lord will never permit the great prophet, our seer, and revelator, to fall or to lead the people astray. Before this could happen God must of necessity remove that man from the earth..”

Oct. 1970 –Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, The Only Safety, p152-153

“You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may conflict with your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself, with patience and faith, the promise is that “the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yeah, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name’s glory.” (D&C 21:6) Your safety and ours depends upon whether or not we follow … Let’s keep our eye on the President of the Church.”



Mar. 1971 – George Durrant, Ensign “A Gift from Heaven”

“Remember, children, Joseph Smith did see God the Father and his Son in the grove. Jesus Christ lives. He is our Savior. This is his church. Follow the brethren whom the Lord has chosen and you’ll never go astray.”



Apr. 1972 – Harold B. Lee, Teaching of the Living Prophets Student Manual

“Now I want to impress this upon you. Someone has said it this way, and I believe it to be absolutely true: ‘That person is not truly converted until he sees the power of God resting upon the leaders of this church, and until it goes down into his heart like fire.’ Until the members of this church have that conviction that they are being led in the right way, and they have a conviction that these men of God are men who are inspired and have been properly appointed by the hand of God, they are not truly converted.” (In Conference Report, Apr. 1972, p. 118; or Ensign, July 1972, p. 103)” – Harold B. Lee



Apr. 1972 – Joseph Fielding Smith, Priesthood Session of General Conference, “Eternal Keys and the Right to Preside”

“Now, brethren, I think there is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord.

An individual may fall by the wayside, or have views, or give counsel which falls short of what the Lord intends. But the voice of the First Presidency and the united voice of those others who hold with them the keys of the kingdom shall always guide the Saints and the world in those paths where the Lord wants them to be.”



July 1972 – Joseph Fielding Smith, Ensign “Eternal Keys and the Right to Preside”

“I think there is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord.



July 1972 – New-Era, Conference Report

“… I think there is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord.”



Oct. 1972 – N. Eldon Tanner, General Conference, “The Priesthood and Its Presidency”

“It is most important that we, as members of the Church, accept without reservation President Lee as a prophet of God and as our leader. I am glad I can say that from the bottom of my heart with every bit of feeling I have. Let us listen to the prophet’s voice and follow him, not blindly but by faith. As we do this, we will never go astray.”



Jan. 1973 – Spencer W. Kimball, Ensign, “We Thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet”

“It was President Wilford Woodruff who, in his closing years, made this statement: “I ask my Heavenly Father to pour out his spirit upon me, as his servant, that in my advanced age, and during the few days I have to spend here in the flesh, I may be led by his inspiration. I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so he will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from his oracles of God and from their duty. …” (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff [Bookcraft, 1969], pp. 212–13.)



Jan. 1973 – N. Eldon Tanner, Ensign, “The Priesthood and Its Presidency”

“It is most important that we, as members of the Church, accept without reservation President Lee as a prophet of God and as our leader. I am glad I can say that from the bottom of my heart with every bit of feeling I have. Let us listen to the prophet’s voice and follow him, not blindly but by faith. As we do this, we will never go astray.”



Apr. 1973 - A. Theodore Tuttle, General Conference, “What Is a Living Prophet?

“Someone has said, ‘That person is not truly converted until he sees the power of God resting upon the leaders of this church, and until it goes down into his heart like fire.’

Some may wonder at such power and authority being vested in one man. “Could he not lead us astray?” they ask. President Wilford Woodruff once said, “I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so he will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty.” (Discourses of Wilford Woodruff [Bookcraft, 1946], pp. 212–13.) Talk repeated in the July 1973 Ensign.



Oct. 1973 – David B. Haight, General Conference, “You Are Different”

“President Harold B. Lee sits here with us now. We have heard his voice, listened to his counsel and wisdom, knowing we will never be lead astray, but encouraged by him to live as we should, to obey God’s commandments down to the latest day.

President Lee once remarked that President Heber J. Grant counseled: “Brethren, keep your eye on the President of this Church. If he tells you to do anything and it is wrong and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it. But you don’t need to worry; the Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead this people astray.” (Brigham Young University address, April 19, 1961, quoted in the Ensign, October, 1972, p. 7.)

President Lee recently said in a most moving address to the Brigham Young University student body: “The measure of your true conviction is whether or not you see the power of God resting on the leaders of this Church and that testimony goes down into your heart like fire.” May these words of his have a deep impact on all, but especially on you—our youth.”



April 1973 – N. Eldon Tanner, General Conference “Thou Mayest Choose for Thyself”

“We cannot go astray if we listen to the prophet’s voice and follow him, and as we do so we will be led in the path of truth and righteousness and enjoy the love, respect, and confidence of our fellowmen, and eventually enjoy eternal life with our Father in heaven. Or we may refuse and lose all these great blessings.”



July 1973 – N. Eldon Tanner, Ensign, “Thou Mayest Choose for Thyself”

“We cannot go astray if we listen to the prophet’s voice and follow him, and as we do so we will be led in the path of truth and righteousness and enjoy the love, respect, and confidence of our fellowmen, and eventually enjoy eternal life with our Father in heaven. Or we may refuse and lose all these great blessings.”



Jan. 1974 – David B. Haight, Ensign, “You Are Different”

“President Harold B. Lee sits here with us now. We have heard his voice, listened to his counsel and wisdom, knowing we will never be lead astray, but encouraged by him to live as we should, to obey God’s commandments down to the latest day. President Lee once remarked that President Heber J. Grant counseled: “Brethren, keep your eye on the President of this Church. If he tells you to do anything and it is wrong and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it. But you don’t need to worry; the Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead this people astray.” (Brigham Young University address, April 19, 1961, quoted in the Ensign, October 1972, p. 7.)



Apr. 1974 – Mark E. Petersen, General Conference, “The People Say “Amen”

“Brigham Young further said, “The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty.” (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 212.)

It was President Heber J. Grant who added, “You have no need to fear that any man will ever stand at the head of the Church of Jesus Christ unless our Heavenly Father wants him there.” (G. Homer Durham, comp., Gospel Standards, Improvement Era, 1969, p. 68.)



May 1974 – N. Eldon Tanner, Ensign, “Chosen of the Lord”

“President Wilford Woodruff said: “I say to the Latter-day Saints, the keys of the kingdom of God are here, and they are going to stay here, too, until the coming of the Son of Man. Let all Israel understand that. … No man who has ever breathed the breath of life can hold these keys of the kingdom of God and lead the people astray.” (Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, G. Homer Durham, comp., Bookcraft, Inc., 1946, pp. 73–74.)



May 1975 – Ezra Taft Benson, New-Era “Jesus Christ—Gifts and Expectations”

“Though his prophet is mortal, God will not let him lead his church astray. (See Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, pp. 212–13.) God knows all things, the end from the beginning, and no man becomes president of the church of Jesus Christ by accident, or remains there by chance, or is called home by happenstance.”



July 1975 – Leonard J. Arrington, Church Historian, “History Then and Now”

“My study of Church history makes me feel very confident about the Church, its history, and its future. Our leaders are showing great wisdom in handling and solving organizational problems and in the delicate social and moral issues of our age. It’s not always easy and matters do not always go as some would like, but the leadership seems sure and competently surmounts each problem as it arises. Moreover, the Lord will not allow the Church to fail or its leaders to take us astray. Many of the things that perturb some in relation to the Church will be seen in the perspective of historians to be handled with remarkable restraint, wisdom, and forthrightness.”



May 1976 – S. Dilworth Young, Ensign “The Still Small Voice”

“Once one recognizes this burning, this feeling, this peace, one need never be drawn astray in his daily life or in the guidance he may receive. He may also know that if this revelation is in harmony with the revealed principles, that it is right, and if in disharmony, it is not from the Lord. The Lord does not contradict himself. It is vital to everybody to know that no one will ever receive revelation that is contrary to the word given to the living prophet.”



Oct. 1976 – Delbert L. Stapley, General Conference, “Teachings of the Apostle Paul”

“How beautifully and completely Paul encompassed all that would enable us to gain the greatest happiness in this life and exaltation in the life to come! Paul proclaimed the truth boldly and frankly just as our beloved prophet Spencer W. Kimball does today. If we follow our prophet’s counsel and that given by the apostle Paul we cannot go astray.”



Nov. 1977 – Delbert L. Stapley, Ensign, “The Blessing of Righteous Obedience”

“A second way we learn obedience is by following the counsel of living prophets and other appointed Church leaders. We are fortunate to live in a time when a living prophet is on the earth to counsel and guide us. Our Heavenly Father communicates His will through His prophet, and God will not permit His prophet to lead His people astray.”



Jan. 1978 – Roger Miller, Liahona, “Followership”

“Listening to [President Joseph Fielding Smith], I was taken back in my thoughts a quarter of a century ago to an experience I had with President Heber J. Grant. We were discussing some criticism that had been directed against an action taken by him in his official capacity. Putting his arm across my back and resting his hand on my left shoulder, he said, ‘My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he tells you to do something wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.’

“And then he added, ‘You don’t need to worry, however; the Lord will never let his spokesman lead his people astray.’

“I haven’t forgotten his counsel. I think I have been faithful to that charge ever since.” (Conference Report, Apr. 1972, p. 111.)



Jan. 1978 – Roy W. Doxey, New-Era, “Accept Diving Counsel”

“President Marion G. Romney in a general conference: “I was greatly impressed by the President’s [President Joseph Fielding Smith’s] remarks. I am glad he said what he did. Listening to him, I was taken back in my thoughts a quarter of a century ago to an experience I had with President Heber J. Grant. We were discussing some criticism that had been directed against an action taken by him in his official capacity. Putting his arm across my back and resting his hand on my left shoulder he said, ‘My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he tells you to do something wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.’

“And then he added, ‘You don’t need to worry, however; the Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead his people astray.’”



Nov. 1978 – Elaine Cannon, Ensign, “If We Want to Go Up, We Have to Get On”

“Tonight President Kimball extends an invitation, with some specifics, I am sure, for all of us as women to follow him as he follows the Savior. If we want to “go up,” we must “get on.” It is that simple. He is our leader, in all the world of would-be leaders, who can guide us back to the presence of God.”

“In each country as you hear this program by direct line, your course should become clear, your priorities ought to be known to you as a daughter of God. Personal opinions may vary. Eternal principles never do. When the prophet speaks, sisters, the debate is over.”



August 1979 – First Presidency Message, Ensign, “The Debate is Over”

N. Eldon Tanner quoting Elaine Cannon, "When the prophet speaks the debate is over," which echoes the Improvement Era's message of June 1945.



Feb. 26, 1980, Ezra Taft Benson, “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”

Second: The living prophet is more vital to us than the Standard Works.

Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.

Fourth: The prophet will never lead the Church astray.



Oct. 1980 – Mark E. Petersen, General Conference, “Adam, the Archangel”

“If any of you have been confused by false teachers who come among us, if you have been assailed by advocates of erroneous doctrines, counsel with your priesthood leaders. They will not lead you astray, but will direct you into paths of truth and salvation.”



June 1981 – Ezra Taft Benson, Liahona, “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”

“Fourth: The prophet will never lead the Church astray.”



Apr. 1981 – Teddy E. Brewerton, General Conference, “Obedience”

“My true feelings about the Church are that I know in a definite, decisive, indelible manner that Jesus is our Redeemer. He lives, as does the Father, and President Kimball is the living servant of the living God. Let us watch the prophet, listen to him, follow him, and we will never go astray.”



Oct. 1983 – Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, “Be Not Deceived”

“Brethren, the Church is true. Those who lead it have only one desire, and that is to do the will of the Lord. They seek his direction in all things. There is not a decision of significance affecting the Church and its people that is made without prayerful consideration, going to the fount of all wisdom for direction. Follow the leadership of the Church. God will not let his work be led astray.”



Oct. 1984 – Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, “The Sustaining of Church Officers”

“The Lord will not allow his work to suffer. He will not allow it to be led astray. He has made that clear.”



May 1986 – Larry Tippets, New-Era, “Participatory Journalism: Whom Will You Trust?”

“Will you trust others? Yes, of course you must trust others, but remember that many lack sufficient knowledge or the proper motives to advise you. Will you trust God? I hope that you will, for he is the one sure source of knowledge and wisdom. I recognize that it is sometimes difficult to know his will. But if we harken to the united voice of the holy scriptures, the teachings of the living prophets, and the personal promptings we receive from the Holy Ghost, we can be sure that we will not be led astray.”



Oct. 1987 – L. Aldin Porter, General Conference, “Follow the Brethren”

“Now, brethren, I think there is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord” (Ensign, July 1972, p. 88).



Oct. 1989 – Boyd K. Packer, General Conference, “Revelation in a Changing World”

“Few things disturb the channels of revelation quite so effectively as those people who are misled and think themselves to be chosen to instruct others when they are not chosen.

Others, fearing they also might go astray, then hold back and do not seek the source of divine revelation. Obedience to constituted priesthood authority will protect us from going astray.”



Oct. 1989 – James E. Faust, General Conference, “Continuous Revelation”

“How can we be so sure that, as promised, the prophets, seers, and revelators will never lead this people astray? (See Joseph Fielding Smith, Ensign, July 1972, p. 88.) One answer is contained in the grand principle found in the 107th section of the Doctrine and Covenants: “And every decision made by either of these quorums must be by the unanimous voice of the same.” (D&C 107:27.) This requirement of unanimity provides a check on bias and personal idiosyncrasies. It ensures that God rules through the Spirit, not man through majority or compromise. It ensures that the best wisdom and experience is focused on an issue before the deep, unassailable impressions of revealed direction are received. It guards against the foibles of man.”



May 1991 – L. Tom Perry, Liahona, “My Father and My Temple Recommend”

“We discussed the necessity of honoring and sustaining the prophet. We have been promised that the Lord will never let his prophet lead us astray. Here is a sure foundation on which we can build our lives.”



Oct. 1992 – Boyd K. Packer, Ensign, “To Be Learned Is Good If…”

“Come away from any others. Follow your leaders who have been duly ordained and have been publicly sustained, and you will not be led astray.”



Oct. 1992 – Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, “The Church is on Course”

“Now, in conclusion, do you believe this body of men would ever lead this Church astray? Remember whose church this is. It carries the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, who stands as its head. His is the power to remove any found remiss in his duty or who is teaching that which is not in harmony with His divine will.”



Oct. 1993 – Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, “Bring Up a Child in the Way He Should Go”

“This church is established on principles that are divine. From the day of its organization, it has been led by prophets, and I solemnly testify that the Lord Jesus Christ, whose church it is and whose name it bears, will never let any man or group of men lead it astray. His is the power to remove them if they should ever be found taking the wrong turn.”



Oct. 1994 – L. Tom Perry, General Conference, “Heed the Prophet’s Voice”

“President Brigham Young has assured us we can have complete confidence in the prophets. He said:

“The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother’s arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth. Your leaders are trying to live their religion as far as [they are] capable of doing so.” (Journal of Discourses, 9:289).



Nov. 1994 - L. Aldin Porter, Ensign, “The Revelations of Heaven”

“I sat in this tabernacle some years ago as President Joseph Fielding Smith stood at this pulpit. It was the general priesthood meeting of April 1972, the last general conference before President Smith passed away. He said: ‘There is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, or the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the lord’”. – L. Aldin Porter of the Presidency of the First Quorum of the Seventies



Oct. 1994 – James E. Faust, General Conference, “The Keys that Never Rust”

“Today I speak of keys other than those of metal. The keys I speak of never rust. These are the keys of life and salvation in the kingdom of God. The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “I will give you a key that will never rust, if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.” (The source for this quote from Joseph is the “Young Woman’s Journal”, Dec. 1906, also requoted in June 1994. There is great debate as to whether Joseph actually wrote these words, or if there was missing context.)



Oct. 1994 – L. Tom Perry, General Conference, “Heed the Prophet’s Voice”

“President Brigham Young has assured us we can have complete confidence in the prophets. He said: “The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother’s arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth. Your leaders are trying to live their religion as far as [they are] capable of doing so” (in Journal of Discourses, 9:289).

Today, by sustaining a new prophet, we have placed ourselves under solemn covenant to heed his voice. The Lord has designated Howard W. Hunter as our prophet, seer, and revelator.”



June 1994 – Don L. Searle, Ensign, “A Disciple in Deed”

“William Nelson was one of many Saints who learned that there was spiritual safety in following the Lord’s appointed leader. “I have heard the Prophet speak in public on many occasions. In one meeting I heard him say: “‘I will give you a key that will never rust,—if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.’ The history of the Church has proven this to be true.”



Nov. 6, 1994 - M. Russell Ballard, BYU Address, “We Came From Kirtland”

“I testify to you that Jesus Christ lives. He is the Son of God. This is his Church. He has spoken to his prophets. He speaks today. He is guiding the affairs of the kingdom. God bless you to keep your eyes riveted on the leadership of the Church. We will not lead you astray. We cannot.”



Nov. 1994 – L. Aldin Porter, Ensign, “The Revelations of Heaven”

“I sat in this tabernacle some years ago as President Joseph Fielding Smith stood at this pulpit. It was the general priesthood meeting of April 1972, the last general conference before President Smith passed away. He said: “There is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord.”

In all solemnity and soberness—with a clear understanding of the consequences of a testimony borne in this setting—may I state that God has made known to me in an unmistakable way that he has called and he sustains those who are the living prophets, seers, and revelators. The Lord God of Israel will direct them, and they will not lead us astray. When you see any document, any address, any letter, any instruction that is issued by the Council of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve, it should be recognized for what it surely is—the mind and the will of the Lord to his people in this day.”



Mar. 12, 1996 – M. Russell Ballard, BYU Address, “When Shall These Things Be?”

“You keep your eyes riveted on the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. We will not lead you astray. We cannot… So keep your eyes riveted on the leadership of the Church. While individuals may falter, the body of general Church leadership will remain steadfast and true. If someone tells you that they have received revelation that the First Presidency and the Twelve have not received, run away from them.” (Reprinted in the 1996 December Ensign and again Nov 1997)



Apr. 1996 – Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, “Stand True and Faithful”

“Many of you are descended from pioneers in this Church. They struggled so hard; they paid such a terrible price for their faith. Be true to them and true always to the Church they loved so much. I wish that each of you would remember that tonight you heard me say that this Church is true. Other churches also do much good, but this is the “true and living church” of the Lord Jesus Christ, whose name it bears. Be true to it. Cling to it. If you will do so it will become as an anchor in the midst of a stormy sea. It will be a light to your lives and a foundation upon which to build them. I give you my solemn testimony that this Church will never be led astray. It is in the hands of God, and should any of its leaders ever attempt to lead it astray, His is the power to remove them. He has said that He has restored His work for the last time, “never again to be destroyed nor given to other people.”



Aug. 1996 – James E. Faust, Liahona, “Continuing Revelation”

“How, then, one might ask, can we be so sure that, as promised, the prophets, seers, and revelators will never lead the people astray? One answer is contained in the grand principle found in the 107th section of the Doctrine and Covenants: “And every decision made by either of these quorums must be by the unanimous voice of the same.”



June 1996 – Ensign, See “Ideas for Home teachers”

“As a people, we have many reasons to rejoice. The priesthood is among us. The spirit of revelation is among us. The Lord will not permit any man to lead his Church astray.”



March 1997 – Gordon B. Hinckley, Young Adult Fireside, Sandiego, CA

“I want to give you my assurance, my dear friends, the Church will not be led astray nor will its people be led astray. The Lord has said that He has set up His work for the last time. This is the great winding-up period, as it were. The Lord is guiding this Church.” (Reprint, Oct. 1997 Ensign)



Apr. 1998 – Ensign Message, “A House of Order, A House of God”

“What could be more comforting than knowing that a perfect, omnipotent God continually watches over his children in this way? President Brigham Young explained: “The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother’s arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth.” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young [1997], 138).



Apr. 1998 – L. Aldin Porter, New-Era, “Diving Direction”

“In all solemnity and soberness I state that God has made known to me in an unmistakable way that he has called and he sustains those who are the living prophets, seers, and revelators. The Lord God of Israel will direct them, and they will not lead us astray. We do not need greater prophets. We need listening ears. We need hearts that are sufficiently pure that we can feel their words. We need souls that will commit to the keeping of our covenants.”



Aug. 1998 – L. Aldin Porter, Ensign, “But We Heeded Them Not”

“On whatever subject the prophets choose to speak, listen. Listen with your ears, with your mind, and with your heart. Do not analyze their mortal preparation to speak upon the subject. That is not where their strength comes from. It is the power of God, coupled with His call to them, that qualifies them to speak—on any subject. The united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will never lead us astray.”



Oct. 1998 – Virginia U. Jensen, General Conference, “Come, Listen to a Prophet’s Voice”

“There aren’t many guarantees in this life. There isn’t a car made with a warranty that covers everything. No bank on earth can absolutely guarantee that your money is completely safe. Even the Good Housekeeping seal of approval has a disclaimer written right on it! Nothing man-made or man-controlled can ever be truly guaranteed! But here’s the miracle. The Lord has given some marvelous guarantees without any disclaimers. And this is one of them: He will choose the prophet, and He will never let that man lead us astray. Imagine for a moment the impact of that promise. There is at least one place we can turn for pure, unpolluted guidance.”



Nov. 2000 – Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign (Jan. 2001 reprint) “A Prophet’s Counsel and Prayer for Youth”

“Be loyal to the Church under all circumstances. I make you a promise that the authorities of this Church will never lead you astray. They will lead you in paths of happiness.”



Jan. 2001 – Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign “A Prophet’s Counsel: The Six Bs”

“Be loyal to the Church under all circumstances. I make you a promise that the authorities of this Church will never lead you astray. They will lead you in paths of happiness.”



Apr. 2001 – M. Russell Ballard, General Conference, “Follow the Prophet”

“I make you a promise. It’s a simple one, but it is true. If you will listen to the living prophet and the apostles and heed our counsel, you will not go astray.“ (Repeated in June 2001 Ensign. Reprinted in the Ensign, Sep. 2001 and reprinted in June 2001 Friend magazine.)



Mar 2001 – M. Russell Ballard, BYU Address “Women of Righteousness”

“I make you a promise. It is a simple one, but it is true. If you will listen to the living prophet and the apostles and heed our counsel, you will not go astray.”



Nov. 2001 – H. Bryan Richards, Friend “Follow the Prophet”

“My father sat down with me on the couch. He told me the story of the Prophet Joseph Smith and bore his testimony to me. He said that if I would always follow the prophet, he would never lead me astray. From that time on, I never doubted my testimony of the Lord’s chosen prophets, and I have always tried to follow their counsel.”



Aug. 2001 – Friend, “Feast of Prophets”

"Harold B. Lee: “Look to the President of the Church for your instructions. If ever there is a conflict, you keep your eyes on the President if you want to walk in the light.” (The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, page 532.)



Aug. 2001 – Allan F. Packer, Ensign, “Solidly Anchored in Our Testimonies”

“We can develop our knowledge and ability as we study the scriptures, follow our priesthood leaders, and become anchored in our testimonies of the gospel. If we do so, we will not be led astray.”

Joseph Fielding Smith: “Be true to every trust. Honor thy father and thy mother. Dwell together in love. … Be modest in your dress. Over-come the world, and do not be led astray by the fashions and practices of those whose interests are centered upon the things of this world.”



April 2002 – L. Aldin Porter, Ensign, “Search the Prophets”

(Quoting Joseph Fielding Smith) “Now, brethren, I think there is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord.”



May 2003 – M. Russell Ballard, Ensign, “Our Living Prophet”

“Today I make you a promise. It’s a simple one, but it is true. If you will listen to the living prophet and the apostles and heed our counsel, you will not go astray.”



May 2003 – Stephen A. West, Friend “Callings and Prophets”

“Throughout our lives, prophets give us direction and counsel that show us how to live. They are aware of the world we live in and all the challenges we face. They know our struggles and our trials. They let us know what we should be doing. The prophet can help us know how to successfully meet the challenges we face and how to be happy and feel peaceful. If we follow the prophet, we will never be led astray and we will be able to return to our Heavenly Father.”



May 2003 – Vicki F. Matsumori, Friend “I Can Follow the Prophet Today”

“Wearing two pairs of earrings may or may not have eternal consequences for this young woman, but her willingness to obey the prophet will.”

And then Elder Ballard promised, “If you will listen to the living prophet and the apostles and heed our counsel, you will not go astray.” (Ensign, May 2001, 66.)



Sep. 2003 – Vicki F. Matsumori, Friend, “Do What is Right”

“If we follow this person, we won’t go astray.” (“Follow the Prophet,” pp. 110–11)



Apr. 2004 – Ensign, Wilford Woodruff “Gospel Classic”

“I say to all Israel at this day, I say to the whole world, that the God of Israel, who organized this Church and kingdom, never ordained any President or Presidency to lead it astray. Hear it, ye Israel, no man who has ever breathed the breath of life can hold these keys of the kingdom of God and lead the people astray.”



Oct. 2005 – James E. Faust, General Conference, “Called and Chosen”

“The President of the Church will not lead the people of the Church astray. It will never happen. President Hinckley’s counselors sustain him fully, as do the Quorum of the Twelve, the Quorums of the Seventy, and the Presiding Bishopric.”



Mar. 2006 – Linda Magleby, Friend Magazine “Follow the Prophet”

Song Presentation: “Follow the Prophet” (pp. 110–11). Compare a flashlight lighting up a darkened room to a prophet sharing light from Heavenly Father so that His people (sing the words) “don’t go astray.” Define astray as off course or lost.



Sep. 2007 – David E. Sorensen, Ensign / BYU-Idaho devotional, “Priesthood, Agency, and Black Powder”

“We have a singular protection not enjoyed by the world in general. The prophet will never lead us astray. President Wilford Woodruff wrote: “The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so he will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty.”



Nov. 2007 – Elizabeth Ricks, Friend, “Two Little Words”

(Quoting Hinckley) “Be loyal to the Church under all circumstances. I make you a promise that the authorities of this Church will never lead you astray. They will lead you in paths of happiness” (“A Prophet’s Counsel and Prayer for Youth,” Ensign, Jan. 2001, 9).



May 2009 – New Era, Q&A “How do I avoid falling back into bad habits like swearing”

“Heed the guidance of the prophets and apostles, for they will not lead you astray. I know this is true, mainly because I have had to fix my old habits as well. I don’t regret that I heeded this counsel. It has truly helped me.”



Nov. 2009 – Thomas S. Monson, General Conference, “Words of the Prophet”

“How grateful we are that the heavens are indeed open, that the restored Church of Jesus Christ is upon the earth today, and that the Church is founded upon the rock of revelation. We are a blessed people, with apostles and prophets upon the earth today. We will never be led astray.”



Oct. 2010 – Claudio M. Costa, General Conference “Obedience to the Prophets”

Repeat of Ezra Taft Benson’s – Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet, and again quotes Wilford Woodruff in his Official Declaration 1



Oct 2010 – Kevin R. Duncan, General Conference, “Our Very Survival”

In this address he repeats Ezra Taft Benson’s “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet.” Interesting to note that this was quoted twice, by two different speakers, in this conference alone.



Mar. 2012 – Randall K. Bennet, Ensign, “Follow the Prophet”

“Some might call our actions blind obedience. But we have the Lord’s personal promise that the prophets will never lead us astray. Knowing this helps us hear their voices as we would hear His own.”



Sep. 2012 – M. Russell Ballard, Friend, ”Conference Countdown”

“If you will listen to the living prophet and the apostles and heed our counsel, you will not go astray.” (“They Spoke to Us,” Friend, June 2001, 4).



Apr. 2013 – L. Tom Perry, Ensign, “My First Temple Recommend”

“We discussed the necessity of honoring and sustaining the prophet. We have been promised that the Lord will never let His prophet lead us astray. Here is a sure foundation on which we can build our lives.”



Apr. 2014 – By Linda S. Reeves, General Conference, “Protection from Pornography—a Christ-Focused Home”

“I know that Joseph Smith saw God, our Heavenly Father, and our Savior, Jesus Christ. I testify that we have a living prophet upon the earth, President Thomas S. Monson. I also testify that we will never be led astray if we heed the counsel of the prophet of God. I testify of the power of our covenants and the blessings of the temple.”



Oct. 2014 – Russell M. Nelson, General Conference, “Sustaining the Prophets”

“The Church today has been organized by the Lord Himself. He has put in place a remarkable system of governance that provides redundancy and backup. That system provides for prophetic leadership even when the inevitable illnesses and incapacities may come with advancing age. Counterbalances and safeguards abound so that no one can ever lead the Church astray. Senior leaders are constantly being tutored such that one day they are ready to sit in the highest councils. They learn how to hear the voice of the Lord through the whisperings of the Spirit.”



Oct. 2014 – M. Russell Ballard, General Conference, “Stay in the Boat, and Hold On!”

“Keep the eyes of the mission on the leaders of the Church. … We will not and … cannot lead [you] astray.



Jan. 10, 2016 – Russell M. Nelson, Worldwide Devotional for Young Adults, “Becoming True Millennials”

“The Lord has promised us that He will never allow the prophet to lead us astray. President Harold B. Lee declared: “You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord Himself, with patience and faith, the promise is that ‘the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name’s glory.’” (Message repeated in Oct 2016 Ensign.)



June 2016 – Ensign, “We Believe in Following the Prophet”

“As we sustain the prophet and apostles, we gain a testimony of them as servants of God. Even though they are not perfect, Heavenly Father will not allow them to lead us astray.”



Apr. 2017 – Russell M. Nelson, YSA Devotional South Africa

“The prophet will not lead you astray.”



Dec. 2018 – Mckenna Clarke, Liahona “3 Ways Prophets Are Evidence That God Loves You”

“We have to be wary of all the voices in the noisy world, but we can always trust the prophet’s voice because God has lovingly promised us that He will never allow the prophet to lead us astray.”



Mar. 2020 – Dallin H. Oaks, Ensign, “The Lord Leads His Church Through Prophets and Apostles”

“The reference to the plural, prophets and apostles, is also prominent in this familiar teaching by President Joseph Fielding Smith (1876–1972): “There is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord.”



Apr. 2020 – Russell M. Nelson, General Conference “An Especially Noble Calling”

(This video is part of talk given by Sister Jones. While she and Nelson visit with primary children in the Smith home in Palmyra New York, she asks him if he could ever lead them astray. He confirms that statement as correct, as a prophet he could never lead them astray. There is even a part where a young boy is asked why we need a prophet and the young man replies something to the effect of, “Well, if we didn’t have a prophet we wouldn’t know what to do.” This is incorrect doctrine. The Holy Ghost teaches us all things that we must do as well as how to choose between right and wrong.)



March 2021 – M Russell Ballard, Liahona, “Who receives revelation for the church?”

Elder Ballard cautions: “Keep your eyes riveted on the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. We will not lead you astray. We cannot… If someone tells you that they have received revelation that the First Presidency and the Twelve have not received, run away from them.”



October 2021 — Elder Rasband, General Conference “The Things of My Soul”

“We are distinguished as a Church to be led by prophets, seers, and revelators called of God for this time. I promise that as you listen and follow their counsel, you will never be led astray. Never!”

“We have the voice of the Lord through His prophet to calm our fears and lift our sights, for when President Nelson speaks, he speaks for the Lord.”



January 23, 2022 — Russell M. Nelson, European Area Devotional (Repeated on Feb. 2, 2022–California Area Conference)

"…prophets, seers and revelators. There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely."

(This talk was given right after Wendy Nelson focused her entire talk on following her husband. In that talk, she said, “What would happen in only 30 days if you chose to follow the prophets with exactness?” No mention of the Holy Ghost or Jesus btw. This, to me, is the epitome of pride. No humble servant of God would ever suggest that we place our complete trust in them. Have we forgotten the counsel taught by the Savior in 2 Nephi 28:31? “Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.” What Nelson is suggesting is rooted in evil. It literally contradicts the words of Christ.)

—————

LDS Manuals with the “will not lead astray” doctrine:

Teachings of the Living Prophets Student Manual (ch.1)

Teachings of the Living Prophets Student Manual (ch.2)

Teachings of the Living Prophets Student Manual (ch.4)

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young (ch.20)

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: George Albert Smith (ch.6)

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Fielding Smith (ch.8)

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Fielding Smith (ch.11)

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Wilford Woodruff (ch.19)

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Harold B. Lee (ch.18)

Presidents of the Church Student Manual (ch.4)

Behold Your Little Ones: Nursery Manual (ch.24)

Old Testament Seminary Teacher Manual (Lesson 65)

Old Testament Seminary Teacher Manual (Lesson 68)

New Testament Student Manual (46)

New Testament Student Manual (52)

New Testament: Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual (lesson 6)

New Testament Teacher Resource Manual (Link)

Book of Mormon Teacher Resource Manual (Alma 43-58)

Doctrine and Covenants Instructor’s Guide (Lesson 21)

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual (Section 21)

Doctrine and Covenants student Manual (Section 81)

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual (ch.37)

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual (ch.52)

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual (Enrichment F)

Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Study Guide (Unit 31: Day3)

Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Study Guide (Unit 6: Day4)

Foundations of the Restoration Teacher Manual (Lesson 9)

Foundations of the Restoration Teacher Manual (Lesson 20)

Gospel Topics: Answering Gospel Questions (link)

Revelation in Context (link)

Preach My Gospel: A Guide to Missionary Service (74)

Church History in the Fullness of Times Student Manual (ch.34)

Primary 5: Doctrine and Covenants and Church History (Lesson 15)

Primary 7: New Testament (Lesson 46)

The Latter-day Saint Woman: Basic Manual for Women, Part B (lesson 13)

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SmilingPatriot
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by SmilingPatriot »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 5th, 2023, 8:00 am This may be worth repeating:
This first quote doesn’t include the words “never lead astray”, but it helps set the tone that from early on church leaders required blind obedience, regardless of the request being right or wrong.

Nov. 8, 1857 - Heber C. Kimball, SLC, Journal of Discourses 6:32

“…WAKE UP! WAKE UP, YE ELDERS OF ISRAEL, AND LIVE TO GOD and none else; and learn to do as you are told, both old and young: learn to do as you are told for the future. And when you are taking a position, if you do not know that you are right, do not take it—I mean independently. But if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it. None of your business whether it is right or wrong.”

1860 - Orson Hyde. The following quote comes from meeting minutes where 7 of the brethren were discussing the Adam-God theory presented by Brigham Young the previous evening. Orson Pratt rebutted the teaching as false. Orson Hyde responded:

“I do not feel competent to take up the points of difficulties between bro. Pratt, and bro Young… [But] to acknowledge that this is the Kingdom of God, and that there is a presiding power, and to admit that he can advance incorrect doctrine, is to lay the ax at the foot of the tree. Will he suffer His mouthpiece to go into error? No. he would remove him, and place another there… Bro. Brigham is responsible for the doctrine taught in this Church, and if he did not watch us, and reprove us when wrong, he would not do his duty…he is the presiding authority of God on the earth, then he is legitimate, and everything opposed to him, is not legitimate…God is a jealous God, and His servants are jealous with a Godly jealousy, that the stream may roll in purity.

Feb. 23, 1862 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 9:289

“The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother’s arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth. Your leaders are trying to live their religion as far as [they are] capable of doing so.”

Aug. 31, 1873 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 16th Volume, p. 161, reported by George Q. Cannon)

"If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason."



Oct. 6, 1890—Wilford Woodruff, Official Declaration 1

“The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty.” (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)



1937 – Children’s Hymnbook song “Follow the Prophet”, Duane E. Hiatt

Follow the prophet, follow the prophet,

Follow the prophet; don’t go astray.

Follow the prophet, follow the prophet,

Follow the prophet; he knows the way.



June 1945 – Heber J. Grant, Improvement Era, Ward Teachers’ Message

"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan—it is God’s plan. When they point the way, there is no other way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy. God works in no other way."



Oct. 1960 – Marion G. Romney (quoting Heber J. Grant) Conference Report, General Priesthood meeting

“My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.” Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, “But you don’t need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray.”

Repeated in the Ensign, July 1972, “The Covenant of the Priesthood”



Oct. 1961 – Franklin Dewey Richards, Conference Report (archive link)

“A seer then is one who may see God, who may talk with God, who may receive personal instruction from God. Our prophet is a seer and a revelator. I do not know who originally taught the doctrine. I was told once that it was taught by President Heber J. Grant, but I was taught this doctrine by Elder Marion G. Romney, who told me that the Lord will never let his prophet, the seer, lead his people astray. Men in all ranks on this earth and in the Church have fallen from grace, but the Lord will never permit the great prophet, our seer, and revelator, to fall or to lead the people astray. Before this could happen God must of necessity remove that man from the earth..”

Oct. 1970 –Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, The Only Safety, p152-153

“You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may conflict with your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself, with patience and faith, the promise is that “the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yeah, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name’s glory.” (D&C 21:6) Your safety and ours depends upon whether or not we follow … Let’s keep our eye on the President of the Church.”



Mar. 1971 – George Durrant, Ensign “A Gift from Heaven”

“Remember, children, Joseph Smith did see God the Father and his Son in the grove. Jesus Christ lives. He is our Savior. This is his church. Follow the brethren whom the Lord has chosen and you’ll never go astray.”



Apr. 1972 – Harold B. Lee, Teaching of the Living Prophets Student Manual

“Now I want to impress this upon you. Someone has said it this way, and I believe it to be absolutely true: ‘That person is not truly converted until he sees the power of God resting upon the leaders of this church, and until it goes down into his heart like fire.’ Until the members of this church have that conviction that they are being led in the right way, and they have a conviction that these men of God are men who are inspired and have been properly appointed by the hand of God, they are not truly converted.” (In Conference Report, Apr. 1972, p. 118; or Ensign, July 1972, p. 103)” – Harold B. Lee



Apr. 1972 – Joseph Fielding Smith, Priesthood Session of General Conference, “Eternal Keys and the Right to Preside”

“Now, brethren, I think there is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord.

An individual may fall by the wayside, or have views, or give counsel which falls short of what the Lord intends. But the voice of the First Presidency and the united voice of those others who hold with them the keys of the kingdom shall always guide the Saints and the world in those paths where the Lord wants them to be.”



July 1972 – Joseph Fielding Smith, Ensign “Eternal Keys and the Right to Preside”

“I think there is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord.



July 1972 – New-Era, Conference Report

“… I think there is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord.”



Oct. 1972 – N. Eldon Tanner, General Conference, “The Priesthood and Its Presidency”

“It is most important that we, as members of the Church, accept without reservation President Lee as a prophet of God and as our leader. I am glad I can say that from the bottom of my heart with every bit of feeling I have. Let us listen to the prophet’s voice and follow him, not blindly but by faith. As we do this, we will never go astray.”



Jan. 1973 – Spencer W. Kimball, Ensign, “We Thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet”

“It was President Wilford Woodruff who, in his closing years, made this statement: “I ask my Heavenly Father to pour out his spirit upon me, as his servant, that in my advanced age, and during the few days I have to spend here in the flesh, I may be led by his inspiration. I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so he will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from his oracles of God and from their duty. …” (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff [Bookcraft, 1969], pp. 212–13.)



Jan. 1973 – N. Eldon Tanner, Ensign, “The Priesthood and Its Presidency”

“It is most important that we, as members of the Church, accept without reservation President Lee as a prophet of God and as our leader. I am glad I can say that from the bottom of my heart with every bit of feeling I have. Let us listen to the prophet’s voice and follow him, not blindly but by faith. As we do this, we will never go astray.”



Apr. 1973 - A. Theodore Tuttle, General Conference, “What Is a Living Prophet?

“Someone has said, ‘That person is not truly converted until he sees the power of God resting upon the leaders of this church, and until it goes down into his heart like fire.’

Some may wonder at such power and authority being vested in one man. “Could he not lead us astray?” they ask. President Wilford Woodruff once said, “I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so he will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty.” (Discourses of Wilford Woodruff [Bookcraft, 1946], pp. 212–13.) Talk repeated in the July 1973 Ensign.



Oct. 1973 – David B. Haight, General Conference, “You Are Different”

“President Harold B. Lee sits here with us now. We have heard his voice, listened to his counsel and wisdom, knowing we will never be lead astray, but encouraged by him to live as we should, to obey God’s commandments down to the latest day.

President Lee once remarked that President Heber J. Grant counseled: “Brethren, keep your eye on the President of this Church. If he tells you to do anything and it is wrong and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it. But you don’t need to worry; the Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead this people astray.” (Brigham Young University address, April 19, 1961, quoted in the Ensign, October, 1972, p. 7.)

President Lee recently said in a most moving address to the Brigham Young University student body: “The measure of your true conviction is whether or not you see the power of God resting on the leaders of this Church and that testimony goes down into your heart like fire.” May these words of his have a deep impact on all, but especially on you—our youth.”



April 1973 – N. Eldon Tanner, General Conference “Thou Mayest Choose for Thyself”

“We cannot go astray if we listen to the prophet’s voice and follow him, and as we do so we will be led in the path of truth and righteousness and enjoy the love, respect, and confidence of our fellowmen, and eventually enjoy eternal life with our Father in heaven. Or we may refuse and lose all these great blessings.”



July 1973 – N. Eldon Tanner, Ensign, “Thou Mayest Choose for Thyself”

“We cannot go astray if we listen to the prophet’s voice and follow him, and as we do so we will be led in the path of truth and righteousness and enjoy the love, respect, and confidence of our fellowmen, and eventually enjoy eternal life with our Father in heaven. Or we may refuse and lose all these great blessings.”



Jan. 1974 – David B. Haight, Ensign, “You Are Different”

“President Harold B. Lee sits here with us now. We have heard his voice, listened to his counsel and wisdom, knowing we will never be lead astray, but encouraged by him to live as we should, to obey God’s commandments down to the latest day. President Lee once remarked that President Heber J. Grant counseled: “Brethren, keep your eye on the President of this Church. If he tells you to do anything and it is wrong and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it. But you don’t need to worry; the Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead this people astray.” (Brigham Young University address, April 19, 1961, quoted in the Ensign, October 1972, p. 7.)



Apr. 1974 – Mark E. Petersen, General Conference, “The People Say “Amen”

“Brigham Young further said, “The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty.” (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 212.)

It was President Heber J. Grant who added, “You have no need to fear that any man will ever stand at the head of the Church of Jesus Christ unless our Heavenly Father wants him there.” (G. Homer Durham, comp., Gospel Standards, Improvement Era, 1969, p. 68.)



May 1974 – N. Eldon Tanner, Ensign, “Chosen of the Lord”

“President Wilford Woodruff said: “I say to the Latter-day Saints, the keys of the kingdom of God are here, and they are going to stay here, too, until the coming of the Son of Man. Let all Israel understand that. … No man who has ever breathed the breath of life can hold these keys of the kingdom of God and lead the people astray.” (Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, G. Homer Durham, comp., Bookcraft, Inc., 1946, pp. 73–74.)



May 1975 – Ezra Taft Benson, New-Era “Jesus Christ—Gifts and Expectations”

“Though his prophet is mortal, God will not let him lead his church astray. (See Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, pp. 212–13.) God knows all things, the end from the beginning, and no man becomes president of the church of Jesus Christ by accident, or remains there by chance, or is called home by happenstance.”



July 1975 – Leonard J. Arrington, Church Historian, “History Then and Now”

“My study of Church history makes me feel very confident about the Church, its history, and its future. Our leaders are showing great wisdom in handling and solving organizational problems and in the delicate social and moral issues of our age. It’s not always easy and matters do not always go as some would like, but the leadership seems sure and competently surmounts each problem as it arises. Moreover, the Lord will not allow the Church to fail or its leaders to take us astray. Many of the things that perturb some in relation to the Church will be seen in the perspective of historians to be handled with remarkable restraint, wisdom, and forthrightness.”



May 1976 – S. Dilworth Young, Ensign “The Still Small Voice”

“Once one recognizes this burning, this feeling, this peace, one need never be drawn astray in his daily life or in the guidance he may receive. He may also know that if this revelation is in harmony with the revealed principles, that it is right, and if in disharmony, it is not from the Lord. The Lord does not contradict himself. It is vital to everybody to know that no one will ever receive revelation that is contrary to the word given to the living prophet.”



Oct. 1976 – Delbert L. Stapley, General Conference, “Teachings of the Apostle Paul”

“How beautifully and completely Paul encompassed all that would enable us to gain the greatest happiness in this life and exaltation in the life to come! Paul proclaimed the truth boldly and frankly just as our beloved prophet Spencer W. Kimball does today. If we follow our prophet’s counsel and that given by the apostle Paul we cannot go astray.”



Nov. 1977 – Delbert L. Stapley, Ensign, “The Blessing of Righteous Obedience”

“A second way we learn obedience is by following the counsel of living prophets and other appointed Church leaders. We are fortunate to live in a time when a living prophet is on the earth to counsel and guide us. Our Heavenly Father communicates His will through His prophet, and God will not permit His prophet to lead His people astray.”



Jan. 1978 – Roger Miller, Liahona, “Followership”

“Listening to [President Joseph Fielding Smith], I was taken back in my thoughts a quarter of a century ago to an experience I had with President Heber J. Grant. We were discussing some criticism that had been directed against an action taken by him in his official capacity. Putting his arm across my back and resting his hand on my left shoulder, he said, ‘My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he tells you to do something wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.’

“And then he added, ‘You don’t need to worry, however; the Lord will never let his spokesman lead his people astray.’

“I haven’t forgotten his counsel. I think I have been faithful to that charge ever since.” (Conference Report, Apr. 1972, p. 111.)



Jan. 1978 – Roy W. Doxey, New-Era, “Accept Diving Counsel”

“President Marion G. Romney in a general conference: “I was greatly impressed by the President’s [President Joseph Fielding Smith’s] remarks. I am glad he said what he did. Listening to him, I was taken back in my thoughts a quarter of a century ago to an experience I had with President Heber J. Grant. We were discussing some criticism that had been directed against an action taken by him in his official capacity. Putting his arm across my back and resting his hand on my left shoulder he said, ‘My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he tells you to do something wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.’

“And then he added, ‘You don’t need to worry, however; the Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead his people astray.’”



Nov. 1978 – Elaine Cannon, Ensign, “If We Want to Go Up, We Have to Get On”

“Tonight President Kimball extends an invitation, with some specifics, I am sure, for all of us as women to follow him as he follows the Savior. If we want to “go up,” we must “get on.” It is that simple. He is our leader, in all the world of would-be leaders, who can guide us back to the presence of God.”

“In each country as you hear this program by direct line, your course should become clear, your priorities ought to be known to you as a daughter of God. Personal opinions may vary. Eternal principles never do. When the prophet speaks, sisters, the debate is over.”



August 1979 – First Presidency Message, Ensign, “The Debate is Over”

N. Eldon Tanner quoting Elaine Cannon, "When the prophet speaks the debate is over," which echoes the Improvement Era's message of June 1945.



Feb. 26, 1980, Ezra Taft Benson, “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”

Second: The living prophet is more vital to us than the Standard Works.

Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.

Fourth: The prophet will never lead the Church astray.



Oct. 1980 – Mark E. Petersen, General Conference, “Adam, the Archangel”

“If any of you have been confused by false teachers who come among us, if you have been assailed by advocates of erroneous doctrines, counsel with your priesthood leaders. They will not lead you astray, but will direct you into paths of truth and salvation.”



June 1981 – Ezra Taft Benson, Liahona, “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”

“Fourth: The prophet will never lead the Church astray.”



Apr. 1981 – Teddy E. Brewerton, General Conference, “Obedience”

“My true feelings about the Church are that I know in a definite, decisive, indelible manner that Jesus is our Redeemer. He lives, as does the Father, and President Kimball is the living servant of the living God. Let us watch the prophet, listen to him, follow him, and we will never go astray.”



Oct. 1983 – Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, “Be Not Deceived”

“Brethren, the Church is true. Those who lead it have only one desire, and that is to do the will of the Lord. They seek his direction in all things. There is not a decision of significance affecting the Church and its people that is made without prayerful consideration, going to the fount of all wisdom for direction. Follow the leadership of the Church. God will not let his work be led astray.”



Oct. 1984 – Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, “The Sustaining of Church Officers”

“The Lord will not allow his work to suffer. He will not allow it to be led astray. He has made that clear.”



May 1986 – Larry Tippets, New-Era, “Participatory Journalism: Whom Will You Trust?”

“Will you trust others? Yes, of course you must trust others, but remember that many lack sufficient knowledge or the proper motives to advise you. Will you trust God? I hope that you will, for he is the one sure source of knowledge and wisdom. I recognize that it is sometimes difficult to know his will. But if we harken to the united voice of the holy scriptures, the teachings of the living prophets, and the personal promptings we receive from the Holy Ghost, we can be sure that we will not be led astray.”



Oct. 1987 – L. Aldin Porter, General Conference, “Follow the Brethren”

“Now, brethren, I think there is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord” (Ensign, July 1972, p. 88).



Oct. 1989 – Boyd K. Packer, General Conference, “Revelation in a Changing World”

“Few things disturb the channels of revelation quite so effectively as those people who are misled and think themselves to be chosen to instruct others when they are not chosen.

Others, fearing they also might go astray, then hold back and do not seek the source of divine revelation. Obedience to constituted priesthood authority will protect us from going astray.”



Oct. 1989 – James E. Faust, General Conference, “Continuous Revelation”

“How can we be so sure that, as promised, the prophets, seers, and revelators will never lead this people astray? (See Joseph Fielding Smith, Ensign, July 1972, p. 88.) One answer is contained in the grand principle found in the 107th section of the Doctrine and Covenants: “And every decision made by either of these quorums must be by the unanimous voice of the same.” (D&C 107:27.) This requirement of unanimity provides a check on bias and personal idiosyncrasies. It ensures that God rules through the Spirit, not man through majority or compromise. It ensures that the best wisdom and experience is focused on an issue before the deep, unassailable impressions of revealed direction are received. It guards against the foibles of man.”



May 1991 – L. Tom Perry, Liahona, “My Father and My Temple Recommend”

“We discussed the necessity of honoring and sustaining the prophet. We have been promised that the Lord will never let his prophet lead us astray. Here is a sure foundation on which we can build our lives.”



Oct. 1992 – Boyd K. Packer, Ensign, “To Be Learned Is Good If…”

“Come away from any others. Follow your leaders who have been duly ordained and have been publicly sustained, and you will not be led astray.”



Oct. 1992 – Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, “The Church is on Course”

“Now, in conclusion, do you believe this body of men would ever lead this Church astray? Remember whose church this is. It carries the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, who stands as its head. His is the power to remove any found remiss in his duty or who is teaching that which is not in harmony with His divine will.”



Oct. 1993 – Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, “Bring Up a Child in the Way He Should Go”

“This church is established on principles that are divine. From the day of its organization, it has been led by prophets, and I solemnly testify that the Lord Jesus Christ, whose church it is and whose name it bears, will never let any man or group of men lead it astray. His is the power to remove them if they should ever be found taking the wrong turn.”



Oct. 1994 – L. Tom Perry, General Conference, “Heed the Prophet’s Voice”

“President Brigham Young has assured us we can have complete confidence in the prophets. He said:

“The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother’s arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth. Your leaders are trying to live their religion as far as [they are] capable of doing so.” (Journal of Discourses, 9:289).



Nov. 1994 - L. Aldin Porter, Ensign, “The Revelations of Heaven”

“I sat in this tabernacle some years ago as President Joseph Fielding Smith stood at this pulpit. It was the general priesthood meeting of April 1972, the last general conference before President Smith passed away. He said: ‘There is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, or the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the lord’”. – L. Aldin Porter of the Presidency of the First Quorum of the Seventies



Oct. 1994 – James E. Faust, General Conference, “The Keys that Never Rust”

“Today I speak of keys other than those of metal. The keys I speak of never rust. These are the keys of life and salvation in the kingdom of God. The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “I will give you a key that will never rust, if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.” (The source for this quote from Joseph is the “Young Woman’s Journal”, Dec. 1906, also requoted in June 1994. There is great debate as to whether Joseph actually wrote these words, or if there was missing context.)



Oct. 1994 – L. Tom Perry, General Conference, “Heed the Prophet’s Voice”

“President Brigham Young has assured us we can have complete confidence in the prophets. He said: “The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother’s arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth. Your leaders are trying to live their religion as far as [they are] capable of doing so” (in Journal of Discourses, 9:289).

Today, by sustaining a new prophet, we have placed ourselves under solemn covenant to heed his voice. The Lord has designated Howard W. Hunter as our prophet, seer, and revelator.”



June 1994 – Don L. Searle, Ensign, “A Disciple in Deed”

“William Nelson was one of many Saints who learned that there was spiritual safety in following the Lord’s appointed leader. “I have heard the Prophet speak in public on many occasions. In one meeting I heard him say: “‘I will give you a key that will never rust,—if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.’ The history of the Church has proven this to be true.”



Nov. 6, 1994 - M. Russell Ballard, BYU Address, “We Came From Kirtland”

“I testify to you that Jesus Christ lives. He is the Son of God. This is his Church. He has spoken to his prophets. He speaks today. He is guiding the affairs of the kingdom. God bless you to keep your eyes riveted on the leadership of the Church. We will not lead you astray. We cannot.”



Nov. 1994 – L. Aldin Porter, Ensign, “The Revelations of Heaven”

“I sat in this tabernacle some years ago as President Joseph Fielding Smith stood at this pulpit. It was the general priesthood meeting of April 1972, the last general conference before President Smith passed away. He said: “There is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord.”

In all solemnity and soberness—with a clear understanding of the consequences of a testimony borne in this setting—may I state that God has made known to me in an unmistakable way that he has called and he sustains those who are the living prophets, seers, and revelators. The Lord God of Israel will direct them, and they will not lead us astray. When you see any document, any address, any letter, any instruction that is issued by the Council of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve, it should be recognized for what it surely is—the mind and the will of the Lord to his people in this day.”



Mar. 12, 1996 – M. Russell Ballard, BYU Address, “When Shall These Things Be?”

“You keep your eyes riveted on the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. We will not lead you astray. We cannot… So keep your eyes riveted on the leadership of the Church. While individuals may falter, the body of general Church leadership will remain steadfast and true. If someone tells you that they have received revelation that the First Presidency and the Twelve have not received, run away from them.” (Reprinted in the 1996 December Ensign and again Nov 1997)



Apr. 1996 – Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, “Stand True and Faithful”

“Many of you are descended from pioneers in this Church. They struggled so hard; they paid such a terrible price for their faith. Be true to them and true always to the Church they loved so much. I wish that each of you would remember that tonight you heard me say that this Church is true. Other churches also do much good, but this is the “true and living church” of the Lord Jesus Christ, whose name it bears. Be true to it. Cling to it. If you will do so it will become as an anchor in the midst of a stormy sea. It will be a light to your lives and a foundation upon which to build them. I give you my solemn testimony that this Church will never be led astray. It is in the hands of God, and should any of its leaders ever attempt to lead it astray, His is the power to remove them. He has said that He has restored His work for the last time, “never again to be destroyed nor given to other people.”



Aug. 1996 – James E. Faust, Liahona, “Continuing Revelation”

“How, then, one might ask, can we be so sure that, as promised, the prophets, seers, and revelators will never lead the people astray? One answer is contained in the grand principle found in the 107th section of the Doctrine and Covenants: “And every decision made by either of these quorums must be by the unanimous voice of the same.”



June 1996 – Ensign, See “Ideas for Home teachers”

“As a people, we have many reasons to rejoice. The priesthood is among us. The spirit of revelation is among us. The Lord will not permit any man to lead his Church astray.”



March 1997 – Gordon B. Hinckley, Young Adult Fireside, Sandiego, CA

“I want to give you my assurance, my dear friends, the Church will not be led astray nor will its people be led astray. The Lord has said that He has set up His work for the last time. This is the great winding-up period, as it were. The Lord is guiding this Church.” (Reprint, Oct. 1997 Ensign)



Apr. 1998 – Ensign Message, “A House of Order, A House of God”

“What could be more comforting than knowing that a perfect, omnipotent God continually watches over his children in this way? President Brigham Young explained: “The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother’s arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth.” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young [1997], 138).



Apr. 1998 – L. Aldin Porter, New-Era, “Diving Direction”

“In all solemnity and soberness I state that God has made known to me in an unmistakable way that he has called and he sustains those who are the living prophets, seers, and revelators. The Lord God of Israel will direct them, and they will not lead us astray. We do not need greater prophets. We need listening ears. We need hearts that are sufficiently pure that we can feel their words. We need souls that will commit to the keeping of our covenants.”



Aug. 1998 – L. Aldin Porter, Ensign, “But We Heeded Them Not”

“On whatever subject the prophets choose to speak, listen. Listen with your ears, with your mind, and with your heart. Do not analyze their mortal preparation to speak upon the subject. That is not where their strength comes from. It is the power of God, coupled with His call to them, that qualifies them to speak—on any subject. The united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will never lead us astray.”



Oct. 1998 – Virginia U. Jensen, General Conference, “Come, Listen to a Prophet’s Voice”

“There aren’t many guarantees in this life. There isn’t a car made with a warranty that covers everything. No bank on earth can absolutely guarantee that your money is completely safe. Even the Good Housekeeping seal of approval has a disclaimer written right on it! Nothing man-made or man-controlled can ever be truly guaranteed! But here’s the miracle. The Lord has given some marvelous guarantees without any disclaimers. And this is one of them: He will choose the prophet, and He will never let that man lead us astray. Imagine for a moment the impact of that promise. There is at least one place we can turn for pure, unpolluted guidance.”



Nov. 2000 – Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign (Jan. 2001 reprint) “A Prophet’s Counsel and Prayer for Youth”

“Be loyal to the Church under all circumstances. I make you a promise that the authorities of this Church will never lead you astray. They will lead you in paths of happiness.”



Jan. 2001 – Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign “A Prophet’s Counsel: The Six Bs”

“Be loyal to the Church under all circumstances. I make you a promise that the authorities of this Church will never lead you astray. They will lead you in paths of happiness.”



Apr. 2001 – M. Russell Ballard, General Conference, “Follow the Prophet”

“I make you a promise. It’s a simple one, but it is true. If you will listen to the living prophet and the apostles and heed our counsel, you will not go astray.“ (Repeated in June 2001 Ensign. Reprinted in the Ensign, Sep. 2001 and reprinted in June 2001 Friend magazine.)



Mar 2001 – M. Russell Ballard, BYU Address “Women of Righteousness”

“I make you a promise. It is a simple one, but it is true. If you will listen to the living prophet and the apostles and heed our counsel, you will not go astray.”



Nov. 2001 – H. Bryan Richards, Friend “Follow the Prophet”

“My father sat down with me on the couch. He told me the story of the Prophet Joseph Smith and bore his testimony to me. He said that if I would always follow the prophet, he would never lead me astray. From that time on, I never doubted my testimony of the Lord’s chosen prophets, and I have always tried to follow their counsel.”



Aug. 2001 – Friend, “Feast of Prophets”

"Harold B. Lee: “Look to the President of the Church for your instructions. If ever there is a conflict, you keep your eyes on the President if you want to walk in the light.” (The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, page 532.)



Aug. 2001 – Allan F. Packer, Ensign, “Solidly Anchored in Our Testimonies”

“We can develop our knowledge and ability as we study the scriptures, follow our priesthood leaders, and become anchored in our testimonies of the gospel. If we do so, we will not be led astray.”

Joseph Fielding Smith: “Be true to every trust. Honor thy father and thy mother. Dwell together in love. … Be modest in your dress. Over-come the world, and do not be led astray by the fashions and practices of those whose interests are centered upon the things of this world.”



April 2002 – L. Aldin Porter, Ensign, “Search the Prophets”

(Quoting Joseph Fielding Smith) “Now, brethren, I think there is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord.”



May 2003 – M. Russell Ballard, Ensign, “Our Living Prophet”

“Today I make you a promise. It’s a simple one, but it is true. If you will listen to the living prophet and the apostles and heed our counsel, you will not go astray.”



May 2003 – Stephen A. West, Friend “Callings and Prophets”

“Throughout our lives, prophets give us direction and counsel that show us how to live. They are aware of the world we live in and all the challenges we face. They know our struggles and our trials. They let us know what we should be doing. The prophet can help us know how to successfully meet the challenges we face and how to be happy and feel peaceful. If we follow the prophet, we will never be led astray and we will be able to return to our Heavenly Father.”



May 2003 – Vicki F. Matsumori, Friend “I Can Follow the Prophet Today”

“Wearing two pairs of earrings may or may not have eternal consequences for this young woman, but her willingness to obey the prophet will.”

And then Elder Ballard promised, “If you will listen to the living prophet and the apostles and heed our counsel, you will not go astray.” (Ensign, May 2001, 66.)



Sep. 2003 – Vicki F. Matsumori, Friend, “Do What is Right”

“If we follow this person, we won’t go astray.” (“Follow the Prophet,” pp. 110–11)



Apr. 2004 – Ensign, Wilford Woodruff “Gospel Classic”

“I say to all Israel at this day, I say to the whole world, that the God of Israel, who organized this Church and kingdom, never ordained any President or Presidency to lead it astray. Hear it, ye Israel, no man who has ever breathed the breath of life can hold these keys of the kingdom of God and lead the people astray.”



Oct. 2005 – James E. Faust, General Conference, “Called and Chosen”

“The President of the Church will not lead the people of the Church astray. It will never happen. President Hinckley’s counselors sustain him fully, as do the Quorum of the Twelve, the Quorums of the Seventy, and the Presiding Bishopric.”



Mar. 2006 – Linda Magleby, Friend Magazine “Follow the Prophet”

Song Presentation: “Follow the Prophet” (pp. 110–11). Compare a flashlight lighting up a darkened room to a prophet sharing light from Heavenly Father so that His people (sing the words) “don’t go astray.” Define astray as off course or lost.



Sep. 2007 – David E. Sorensen, Ensign / BYU-Idaho devotional, “Priesthood, Agency, and Black Powder”

“We have a singular protection not enjoyed by the world in general. The prophet will never lead us astray. President Wilford Woodruff wrote: “The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so he will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty.”



Nov. 2007 – Elizabeth Ricks, Friend, “Two Little Words”

(Quoting Hinckley) “Be loyal to the Church under all circumstances. I make you a promise that the authorities of this Church will never lead you astray. They will lead you in paths of happiness” (“A Prophet’s Counsel and Prayer for Youth,” Ensign, Jan. 2001, 9).



May 2009 – New Era, Q&A “How do I avoid falling back into bad habits like swearing”

“Heed the guidance of the prophets and apostles, for they will not lead you astray. I know this is true, mainly because I have had to fix my old habits as well. I don’t regret that I heeded this counsel. It has truly helped me.”



Nov. 2009 – Thomas S. Monson, General Conference, “Words of the Prophet”

“How grateful we are that the heavens are indeed open, that the restored Church of Jesus Christ is upon the earth today, and that the Church is founded upon the rock of revelation. We are a blessed people, with apostles and prophets upon the earth today. We will never be led astray.”



Oct. 2010 – Claudio M. Costa, General Conference “Obedience to the Prophets”

Repeat of Ezra Taft Benson’s – Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet, and again quotes Wilford Woodruff in his Official Declaration 1



Oct 2010 – Kevin R. Duncan, General Conference, “Our Very Survival”

In this address he repeats Ezra Taft Benson’s “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet.” Interesting to note that this was quoted twice, by two different speakers, in this conference alone.



Mar. 2012 – Randall K. Bennet, Ensign, “Follow the Prophet”

“Some might call our actions blind obedience. But we have the Lord’s personal promise that the prophets will never lead us astray. Knowing this helps us hear their voices as we would hear His own.”



Sep. 2012 – M. Russell Ballard, Friend, ”Conference Countdown”

“If you will listen to the living prophet and the apostles and heed our counsel, you will not go astray.” (“They Spoke to Us,” Friend, June 2001, 4).



Apr. 2013 – L. Tom Perry, Ensign, “My First Temple Recommend”

“We discussed the necessity of honoring and sustaining the prophet. We have been promised that the Lord will never let His prophet lead us astray. Here is a sure foundation on which we can build our lives.”



Apr. 2014 – By Linda S. Reeves, General Conference, “Protection from Pornography—a Christ-Focused Home”

“I know that Joseph Smith saw God, our Heavenly Father, and our Savior, Jesus Christ. I testify that we have a living prophet upon the earth, President Thomas S. Monson. I also testify that we will never be led astray if we heed the counsel of the prophet of God. I testify of the power of our covenants and the blessings of the temple.”



Oct. 2014 – Russell M. Nelson, General Conference, “Sustaining the Prophets”

“The Church today has been organized by the Lord Himself. He has put in place a remarkable system of governance that provides redundancy and backup. That system provides for prophetic leadership even when the inevitable illnesses and incapacities may come with advancing age. Counterbalances and safeguards abound so that no one can ever lead the Church astray. Senior leaders are constantly being tutored such that one day they are ready to sit in the highest councils. They learn how to hear the voice of the Lord through the whisperings of the Spirit.”



Oct. 2014 – M. Russell Ballard, General Conference, “Stay in the Boat, and Hold On!”

“Keep the eyes of the mission on the leaders of the Church. … We will not and … cannot lead [you] astray.



Jan. 10, 2016 – Russell M. Nelson, Worldwide Devotional for Young Adults, “Becoming True Millennials”

“The Lord has promised us that He will never allow the prophet to lead us astray. President Harold B. Lee declared: “You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord Himself, with patience and faith, the promise is that ‘the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name’s glory.’” (Message repeated in Oct 2016 Ensign.)



June 2016 – Ensign, “We Believe in Following the Prophet”

“As we sustain the prophet and apostles, we gain a testimony of them as servants of God. Even though they are not perfect, Heavenly Father will not allow them to lead us astray.”



Apr. 2017 – Russell M. Nelson, YSA Devotional South Africa

“The prophet will not lead you astray.”



Dec. 2018 – Mckenna Clarke, Liahona “3 Ways Prophets Are Evidence That God Loves You”

“We have to be wary of all the voices in the noisy world, but we can always trust the prophet’s voice because God has lovingly promised us that He will never allow the prophet to lead us astray.”



Mar. 2020 – Dallin H. Oaks, Ensign, “The Lord Leads His Church Through Prophets and Apostles”

“The reference to the plural, prophets and apostles, is also prominent in this familiar teaching by President Joseph Fielding Smith (1876–1972): “There is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord.”



Apr. 2020 – Russell M. Nelson, General Conference “An Especially Noble Calling”

(This video is part of talk given by Sister Jones. While she and Nelson visit with primary children in the Smith home in Palmyra New York, she asks him if he could ever lead them astray. He confirms that statement as correct, as a prophet he could never lead them astray. There is even a part where a young boy is asked why we need a prophet and the young man replies something to the effect of, “Well, if we didn’t have a prophet we wouldn’t know what to do.” This is incorrect doctrine. The Holy Ghost teaches us all things that we must do as well as how to choose between right and wrong.)



March 2021 – M Russell Ballard, Liahona, “Who receives revelation for the church?”

Elder Ballard cautions: “Keep your eyes riveted on the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. We will not lead you astray. We cannot… If someone tells you that they have received revelation that the First Presidency and the Twelve have not received, run away from them.”



October 2021 — Elder Rasband, General Conference “The Things of My Soul”

“We are distinguished as a Church to be led by prophets, seers, and revelators called of God for this time. I promise that as you listen and follow their counsel, you will never be led astray. Never!”

“We have the voice of the Lord through His prophet to calm our fears and lift our sights, for when President Nelson speaks, he speaks for the Lord.”



January 23, 2022 — Russell M. Nelson, European Area Devotional (Repeated on Feb. 2, 2022–California Area Conference)

"…prophets, seers and revelators. There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely."

(This talk was given right after Wendy Nelson focused her entire talk on following her husband. In that talk, she said, “What would happen in only 30 days if you chose to follow the prophets with exactness?” No mention of the Holy Ghost or Jesus btw. This, to me, is the epitome of pride. No humble servant of God would ever suggest that we place our complete trust in them. Have we forgotten the counsel taught by the Savior in 2 Nephi 28:31? “Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.” What Nelson is suggesting is rooted in evil. It literally contradicts the words of Christ.)

—————

LDS Manuals with the “will not lead astray” doctrine:

Teachings of the Living Prophets Student Manual (ch.1)

Teachings of the Living Prophets Student Manual (ch.2)

Teachings of the Living Prophets Student Manual (ch.4)

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young (ch.20)

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: George Albert Smith (ch.6)

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Fielding Smith (ch.8)

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Fielding Smith (ch.11)

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Wilford Woodruff (ch.19)

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Harold B. Lee (ch.18)

Presidents of the Church Student Manual (ch.4)

Behold Your Little Ones: Nursery Manual (ch.24)

Old Testament Seminary Teacher Manual (Lesson 65)

Old Testament Seminary Teacher Manual (Lesson 68)

New Testament Student Manual (46)

New Testament Student Manual (52)

New Testament: Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual (lesson 6)

New Testament Teacher Resource Manual (Link)

Book of Mormon Teacher Resource Manual (Alma 43-58)

Doctrine and Covenants Instructor’s Guide (Lesson 21)

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual (Section 21)

Doctrine and Covenants student Manual (Section 81)

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual (ch.37)

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual (ch.52)

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual (Enrichment F)

Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Study Guide (Unit 31: Day3)

Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Study Guide (Unit 6: Day4)

Foundations of the Restoration Teacher Manual (Lesson 9)

Foundations of the Restoration Teacher Manual (Lesson 20)

Gospel Topics: Answering Gospel Questions (link)

Revelation in Context (link)

Preach My Gospel: A Guide to Missionary Service (74)

Church History in the Fullness of Times Student Manual (ch.34)

Primary 5: Doctrine and Covenants and Church History (Lesson 15)

Primary 7: New Testament (Lesson 46)

The Latter-day Saint Woman: Basic Manual for Women, Part B (lesson 13)
Thanks RW for putting this together. They don’t use the exact same phrase over and over if they are not trying to program. Seeing it laid out like this is very disturbing!

GeeR
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by GeeR »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: February 5th, 2023, 7:52 am
BroJones wrote: February 5th, 2023, 7:43 am Does "sustain" mean that we think the Q15 are infallible? Certainly not (IMHO) - but you might ask that question of the interviewer. If he says it means "infallible", ask for supporting scripture - or Handbook. (Can't be found.)

I don't think they are infallible. I did not get the jab.
I sustain them with that understanding - that they make can and do make mistakes.

The Lord allows for mistakes, agency, and growth. That's basically the reason for the Atoning Gift of Jesus Christ.
If I may ask... You do realize that they teach that they can never lead the church astray, right? How is this not teaching the doctrine of infallibility?
This statement and teaching of the prophet guaranteeing to not leading the church astray (Ballard said it's "impossible") was the lying pretext for persuading polygamous members from leaving the church when monogamy was reinstated because of threats from the U.S. government. That doctrine is not said in the context of grounded theology like faith, repentance, baptism and reveiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, but was said in a moment of desparation in order to keep the members from leaving the church.

I don't believe Wilford Woodruff knew he was inadvertantly teaching the Judas Goat doctrine! What is the Judas Goat doctrine? Consequently, goats are not very good followers. "Gregarious behavior" is a term that refers to the flocking or herding instinct which is found strongly in sheep, cattle, and horses. Again, this quality is rather weak in goats; they prefer leading or going off on their own. Meat packers use this instinct in sheep and goats to their advantage. They will train an old goat, appropriately called a "Judas," to lead sheep to the pens for slaughter. A well-trained Judas will lead group after group of sheep to the slaughter all day long.

Unfortunately this Judas Goat doctrine has been used abusively in the church--"When the prophet speaks, the debate is over." Lately it has been weaponized! Sharon Eubank said: "The power of trusted faith leaders, we've known for a long time that it is through the trusted voices of faith leaders that people can change their resistance to these things." (Clot shots) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZT9CNZcZNs

Forever
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by Forever »

GeeR wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:43 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: February 5th, 2023, 7:52 am
BroJones wrote: February 5th, 2023, 7:43 am Does "sustain" mean that we think the Q15 are infallible? Certainly not (IMHO) - but you might ask that question of the interviewer. If he says it means "infallible", ask for supporting scripture - or Handbook. (Can't be found.)

I don't think they are infallible. I did not get the jab.
I sustain them with that understanding - that they make can and do make mistakes.

The Lord allows for mistakes, agency, and growth. That's basically the reason for the Atoning Gift of Jesus Christ.
If I may ask... You do realize that they teach that they can never lead the church astray, right? How is this not teaching the doctrine of infallibility?
This statement and teaching of the prophet guaranteeing to not leading the church astray (Ballard said it's "impossible") was the lying pretext for persuading polygamous members from leaving the church when monogamy was reinstated because of threats from the U.S. government. That doctrine is not said in the context of grounded theology like faith, repentance, baptism and reveiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, but was said in a moment of desparation in order to keep the members from leaving the church.

I don't believe Wilford Woodruff knew he was inadvertantly teaching the Judas Goat doctrine! What is the Judas Goat doctrine? Consequently, goats are not very good followers. "Gregarious behavior" is a term that refers to the flocking or herding instinct which is found strongly in sheep, cattle, and horses. Again, this quality is rather weak in goats; they prefer leading or going off on their own. Meat packers use this instinct in sheep and goats to their advantage. They will train an old goat, appropriately called a "Judas," to lead sheep to the pens for slaughter. A well-trained Judas will lead group after group of sheep to the slaughter all day long.

Unfortunately this Judas Goat doctrine has been used abusively in the church--"When the prophet speaks, the debate is over." Lately it has been weaponized! Sharon Eubank said: "The power of trusted faith leaders, we've known for a long time that it is through the trusted voices of faith leaders that people can change their resistance to these things." (Clot shots) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZT9CNZcZNs
Why members cannot discern their arrogance and darkness is beyond me. Every cell in my body cannot listen to them. They have sold their souls....really a very long time ago. Chosen and groomed to rise up into the powerful positions they now hold.

Juliet
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by Juliet »

You can sustain them in their role and calling as head of the church. If they have sins, you can pray for the atonement to heal them. If you don't sustain them because of their sins; consider if you would want people that love you to withhold that love if you sin. Sustaining doesn't mean you consent them to do evil. It just means you sustain them. If they are involved in evil you can pray for them. That's a way to sustain someone. If you feel like they are no longer anointed...then who is? If God has not revealed anyone else to be anointed then trust where we are at right now. King Saul had a son who was king for a while before it became apparent who the true king was. King David was proved in a way that all the people together could recognize he was anointed. I don't think God is going to sacrifice the mainstream members of the church. If the Holy Spirit tells you something is off....wait for God to show us what to do. Before the children of Israel were delivered, they had to make bricks without straw. If that is what God is asking you to do and you don't see any alternative... just hang in there.
Last edited by Juliet on February 5th, 2023, 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Forever
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by Forever »

Juliet wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:54 pm You can sustain them in their role and calling as head of the church. If they have sins, you can pray for the atonement to heal them. If you don't sustain them because of their sins; consider if you would want people that love you to withhold that love if you sin. Sustaining doesn't mean you consent them to do evil. It just means you sustain them. If they are involved in evil you can pray for them. That's a way to sustain someone.
Doublespeak. Evil is evil.

cwass
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by cwass »

."I gave him quotes from Joseph Smith and Brigham Young stating they did not want anyone to blindly follow them, but wanted people to confirm through the Spirit the correctness of their teachings and directions."

Could you provide those quotes and references? Recently asked to give a talk on the living prophet and I like those references.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

SmilingPatriot wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:37 pm Thanks RW for putting this together. They don’t use the exact same phrase over and over if they are not trying to program. Seeing it laid out like this is very disturbing!
It’s taken me about 10 or so hours of study to find all of those quotes over several days. Almost exclusively through LDS.org. My original intent was to see if this was only referenced by Wilford Woodruff in his official declaration. I was seriously taken back by the sheer volume and duration of how often this philosophy has been repeated. I almost can’t think of another “doctrine” with more longevity without changing in some way. They’ve obviously approached it from a variety of angles, but the core message and wording has been verbatim for 170+ years.

I’m just baffled that we can’t see how anti-Christian this philosophy really is. It’s evil.

Forever
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by Forever »

I'm so very grateful that the Holy Ghost has successfully debriefed me.

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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

My recommend expires the end of next month. I won't be renewing it. There's no way anyone can convince me that Pres Nelson and the Twelve are "prophets, seers, and revelators." No way.

LostCreekAcres
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by LostCreekAcres »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 5th, 2023, 8:51 pm
SmilingPatriot wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:37 pm Thanks RW for putting this together. They don’t use the exact same phrase over and over if they are not trying to program. Seeing it laid out like this is very disturbing!
It’s taken me about 10 or so hours of study to find all of those quotes over several days. Almost exclusively through LDS.org. My original intent was to see if this was only referenced by Wilford Woodruff in his official declaration. I was seriously taken back by the sheer volume and duration of how often this philosophy has been repeated. I almost can’t think of another “doctrine” with more longevity without changing in some way. They’ve obviously approached it from a variety of angles, but the core message and wording has been verbatim for 170+ years.

I’m just baffled that we can’t see how anti-Christian this philosophy really is. It’s evil.
Care to post all the comments in one place? Would love to have all your hard work exhibited in one spot. Thanks.

EmmaLee
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by EmmaLee »

Rubicon wrote: February 4th, 2023, 6:47 pm ...to me, the key is: do you believe that the Q15 hold the priesthood keys? If you really don't, then I don't believe you honestly qualify.
....
Many posters here seem to believe that it doesn't matter, they've lost their authority, since they've lied to us you can return the favor, it's however you interpret it, not how they do, etc. But I'm the end, ordinances need to be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, and what does it get people if they go under false pretenses?

Well said; I agree.

Sadly, it seems many can't/won't answer this recommend question truthfully either -

9. Do you strive to be honest in all that you do?

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Re: Temple Interview

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

LostCreekAcres wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:05 am Care to post all the comments in one place? Would love to have all your hard work exhibited in one spot. Thanks.
I've compiled all of them here: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/infal ... y-timeline

I became curious last night to see if I could find any more. To my sadness, I found many, many more that I've added to this list. I noted the additional quotes here: viewtopic.php?t=69116

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Re: Temple Interview

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Not to thread drift here, but if you want to know why this philosophy is so wrong, you can check out this essay that explores how the church knowingly omits certain words, which actually proves that someone in the church knows they are teaching false doctrine:

https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/hand-foot-eye

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SmilingPatriot
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by SmilingPatriot »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 5th, 2023, 8:51 pm
SmilingPatriot wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:37 pm Thanks RW for putting this together. They don’t use the exact same phrase over and over if they are not trying to program. Seeing it laid out like this is very disturbing!
It’s taken me about 10 or so hours of study to find all of those quotes over several days. Almost exclusively through LDS.org. My original intent was to see if this was only referenced by Wilford Woodruff in his official declaration. I was seriously taken back by the sheer volume and duration of how often this philosophy has been repeated. I almost can’t think of another “doctrine” with more longevity without changing in some way. They’ve obviously approached it from a variety of angles, but the core message and wording has been verbatim for 170+ years.

I’m just baffled that we can’t see how anti-Christian this philosophy really is. It’s evil.
I agree! I’m glad you spent the time to find all the quotes. Even a TBM would have to take a step back and say hmmmm…

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

SmilingPatriot wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:00 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 5th, 2023, 8:51 pm
SmilingPatriot wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:37 pm Thanks RW for putting this together. They don’t use the exact same phrase over and over if they are not trying to program. Seeing it laid out like this is very disturbing!
It’s taken me about 10 or so hours of study to find all of those quotes over several days. Almost exclusively through LDS.org. My original intent was to see if this was only referenced by Wilford Woodruff in his official declaration. I was seriously taken back by the sheer volume and duration of how often this philosophy has been repeated. I almost can’t think of another “doctrine” with more longevity without changing in some way. They’ve obviously approached it from a variety of angles, but the core message and wording has been verbatim for 170+ years.

I’m just baffled that we can’t see how anti-Christian this philosophy really is. It’s evil.
I agree! I’m glad you spent the time to find all the quotes. Even a TBM would have to take a step back and say hmmmm…
Funny you mention that. My son was talking with a TBM not long ago and he said that the church teaches that the PSR cannot lead you astray. The TBM denied the church taught such a doctrine… my son proceeded to open that web page of quotes and slowly scrolled…. All… the… way… to… the… end…

The TBM didn’t say much after that.

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SmilingPatriot
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by SmilingPatriot »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:07 pm
SmilingPatriot wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:00 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 5th, 2023, 8:51 pm
SmilingPatriot wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:37 pm Thanks RW for putting this together. They don’t use the exact same phrase over and over if they are not trying to program. Seeing it laid out like this is very disturbing!
It’s taken me about 10 or so hours of study to find all of those quotes over several days. Almost exclusively through LDS.org. My original intent was to see if this was only referenced by Wilford Woodruff in his official declaration. I was seriously taken back by the sheer volume and duration of how often this philosophy has been repeated. I almost can’t think of another “doctrine” with more longevity without changing in some way. They’ve obviously approached it from a variety of angles, but the core message and wording has been verbatim for 170+ years.

I’m just baffled that we can’t see how anti-Christian this philosophy really is. It’s evil.
I agree! I’m glad you spent the time to find all the quotes. Even a TBM would have to take a step back and say hmmmm…
Funny you mention that. My son was talking with a TBM not long ago and he said that the church teaches that the PSR cannot lead you astray. The TBM denied the church taught such a doctrine… my son proceeded to open that web page of quotes and slowly scrolled…. All… the… way… to… the… end…

The TBM didn’t say much after that.
😂😂 That had to be humiliating! Your son should’ve said what else you got that I can smack down

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

SmilingPatriot wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:16 pm 😂😂 That had to be humiliating! Your son should’ve said what else you got that I can smack down
He was nice about it, but the guy didn’t say much. He’s had the chance to talk with a LOT of people in and out of the church since he was sent home from his mission for not wearing a mask.

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SmilingPatriot
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by SmilingPatriot »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:21 pm
SmilingPatriot wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:16 pm 😂😂 That had to be humiliating! Your son should’ve said what else you got that I can smack down
He was nice about it, but the guy didn’t say much. He’s had the chance to talk with a LOT of people in and out of the church since he was sent home from his mission for not wearing a mask.
Well he sounds like he was raised right! Good for him for not bending and conforming!

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

SmilingPatriot wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:40 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:21 pm
SmilingPatriot wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:16 pm 😂😂 That had to be humiliating! Your son should’ve said what else you got that I can smack down
He was nice about it, but the guy didn’t say much. He’s had the chance to talk with a LOT of people in and out of the church since he was sent home from his mission for not wearing a mask.
Well he sounds like he was raised right! Good for him for not bending and conforming!
You’ll see him on the forum occasionally. He goes by the name Gadianton Slayer.

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SmilingPatriot
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Re: Temple Interview

Post by SmilingPatriot »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:44 pm
SmilingPatriot wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:40 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:21 pm
SmilingPatriot wrote: February 6th, 2023, 7:16 pm 😂😂 That had to be humiliating! Your son should’ve said what else you got that I can smack down
He was nice about it, but the guy didn’t say much. He’s had the chance to talk with a LOT of people in and out of the church since he was sent home from his mission for not wearing a mask.
Well he sounds like he was raised right! Good for him for not bending and conforming!
You’ll see him on the forum occasionally. He goes by the name Gadianton Slayer.
Gotcha! Yes I have

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