Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
Forever, since this is a discussion forum, it would be ideal if you commented in addition to just posting a YouTube video as your first post. Tell us why you're sharing it. What you thought about the video. Why should we watch it? etc..
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision &lygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
Okay. Jeremy is demanding answers from the 15. William Clayton's journals etc. All the speakers at this event were excellent. Whitney Horring was perfect. Every Mormon should hear her and Jeremy. And see the film.
- Luke
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
Still unsure why these accounts are termed “accusations”, as if they are a bad thing. There is no higher honour to be found on earth than to be one living the Fullness of the New and Everlasting Covenant.
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
Hey Luke, Why do you think the new and everlasting covenant is plural marriage? I look at JST Genesis 9 and feel that there is no room for misinterpretation on this matter.
22 And this is mine everlasting covenant, that when thy posterity shall embrace the truth, and look upward, then shall Zion look downward, and all the heavens shall shake with gladness, and the earth shall tremble with joy;
23 And the general assembly of the church of the firstborn shall come down out of heaven, and possess the earth, and shall have place until the end come. And this is mine everlasting covenant, which I made with thy father Enoch.
The scripture says that we just embrace truth, which is Christ. (Christ is the way, the TRUTH and the life.) We just have to give up our false traditions, like Babylon and plural marriage and endowments and all this other weird stuff. Christ never said to do any of that stuff. He just said to go to Him and seek Him and that's it. We just give all that up and look to Christ and then comes Zion. No where in those versus does it say anything about plural marriage being the new and everlasting covenant. Is there anywhere you get that from apart from D&C 132 and the teachings of Brigham Young?
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
How about the example of BY marrying another man's wife, sending him on a mission, and then impregnating her? How can this be "living the Fullness of the New and Everlasting Covenant?"
Now repeat that 13 more times ... other men's wives. LOL
Hilarious.
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
I always assumed that about BY and marrying wives of men he sent on missions was heavily embellished. Is that really how that went down?LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 7:39 amHow about the example of BY marrying another man's wife, sending him on a mission, and then impregnating her? How can this be "living the Fullness of the New and Everlasting Covenant?"
Now repeat that 13 more times ... other men's wives. LOL
Hilarious.
If so, how do the apologists explain what happened? I'm asking sincerely....
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
According to what that guy said in the video ...Cruiserdude wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 8:35 amI always assumed that about BY and marrying wives of men he sent on missions was heavily embellished. Is that really how that went down?LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 7:39 amHow about the example of BY marrying another man's wife, sending him on a mission, and then impregnating her? How can this be "living the Fullness of the New and Everlasting Covenant?"
Now repeat that 13 more times ... other men's wives. LOL
Hilarious.
If so, how do the apologists explain what happened? I'm asking sincerely....
I've also read the book "The Exoneration of Emma, Joseph, and Hyrum" and his research showed the first polygamist wife of BY (so his second wife) was a non-divorced woman from England who had a husband and 5 children, left England, married BY. Polyandry at its finest.
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
Luke has had a spiritual manifestation about the truthfulness of polygamy. I haven't heard him explain more, but this is why all reason and logic just bounce off him. He is too emotionally invested in this experience.
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 7:39 amHow about the example of BY marrying another man's wife, sending him on a mission, and then impregnating her? How can this be "living the Fullness of the New and Everlasting Covenant?"
Now repeat that 13 more times ... other men's wives. LOL
Hilarious.
But it’s ok…. Joseph Smith did it first…. Like with Zina Huntington…. Joseph totally married her while she was married to Henry…. So Brigham did the charitable thing and married this poor widow of Joseph even though she was still living with (and never stopped living with) her first husband Henry…. He was just doing what Joseph did…. At least that’s what the Saints Volumes tell us….
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
Just remembered you posted this due to Shawn quoting it. I’m not ignoring you—I will get back to you at some point soon.Follow_God_Not_Man wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 4:51 pmHey Luke, Why do you think the new and everlasting covenant is plural marriage? I look at JST Genesis 9 and feel that there is no room for misinterpretation on this matter.
22 And this is mine everlasting covenant, that when thy posterity shall embrace the truth, and look upward, then shall Zion look downward, and all the heavens shall shake with gladness, and the earth shall tremble with joy;
23 And the general assembly of the church of the firstborn shall come down out of heaven, and possess the earth, and shall have place until the end come. And this is mine everlasting covenant, which I made with thy father Enoch.
The scripture says that we just embrace truth, which is Christ. (Christ is the way, the TRUTH and the life.) We just have to give up our false traditions, like Babylon and plural marriage and endowments and all this other weird stuff. Christ never said to do any of that stuff. He just said to go to Him and seek Him and that's it. We just give all that up and look to Christ and then comes Zion. No where in those versus does it say anything about plural marriage being the new and everlasting covenant. Is there anywhere you get that from apart from D&C 132 and the teachings of Brigham Young?
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
Parley Pratt still wins that round. Your first example reminded me of the story of David, David won that round also. Brigham young is in second a lot.LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 12:49 pmAccording to what that guy said in the video ...Cruiserdude wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 8:35 amI always assumed that about BY and marrying wives of men he sent on missions was heavily embellished. Is that really how that went down?LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 7:39 amHow about the example of BY marrying another man's wife, sending him on a mission, and then impregnating her? How can this be "living the Fullness of the New and Everlasting Covenant?"
Now repeat that 13 more times ... other men's wives. LOL
Hilarious.
If so, how do the apologists explain what happened? I'm asking sincerely....
I've also read the book "The Exoneration of Emma, Joseph, and Hyrum" and his research showed the first polygamist wife of BY (so his second wife) was a non-divorced woman from England who had a husband and 5 children, left England, married BY. Polyandry at its finest.
- LDS Physician
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
Well, BY didn't get stabbed to death like PPP did by his wife's husband. Polyandry tends to make the other husband pretty angry.Bronco73idi wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 6:36 pmParley Pratt still wins that round. Your first example reminded me of the story of David, David won that round also. Brigham young is in second a lot.LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 12:49 pmAccording to what that guy said in the video ...Cruiserdude wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 8:35 amI always assumed that about BY and marrying wives of men he sent on missions was heavily embellished. Is that really how that went down?LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 7:39 am
How about the example of BY marrying another man's wife, sending him on a mission, and then impregnating her? How can this be "living the Fullness of the New and Everlasting Covenant?"
Now repeat that 13 more times ... other men's wives. LOL
Hilarious.
If so, how do the apologists explain what happened? I'm asking sincerely....
I've also read the book "The Exoneration of Emma, Joseph, and Hyrum" and his research showed the first polygamist wife of BY (so his second wife) was a non-divorced woman from England who had a husband and 5 children, left England, married BY. Polyandry at its finest.
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
I laughed when I first read that story, it was recently and right before general conference. Watching GC and some moron read a quote by PPP and I laughed again.LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 7:04 pmWell, BY didn't get stabbed to death like PPP did by his wife's husband. Polyandry tends to make the other husband pretty angry.Bronco73idi wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 6:36 pmParley Pratt still wins that round. Your first example reminded me of the story of David, David won that round also. Brigham young is in second a lot.LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 12:49 pmAccording to what that guy said in the video ...Cruiserdude wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 8:35 am
I always assumed that about BY and marrying wives of men he sent on missions was heavily embellished. Is that really how that went down?
If so, how do the apologists explain what happened? I'm asking sincerely....
I've also read the book "The Exoneration of Emma, Joseph, and Hyrum" and his research showed the first polygamist wife of BY (so his second wife) was a non-divorced woman from England who had a husband and 5 children, left England, married BY. Polyandry at its finest.
- LDS Physician
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
I bet you $10 the GC speaker doesn't know that PPP was killed by his wife's husband, from whom she was never divorced.Bronco73idi wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 7:09 pmI laughed when I first read that story, it was recently and right before general conference. Watching GC and some moron read a quote by PPP and I laughed again.LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 7:04 pmWell, BY didn't get stabbed to death like PPP did by his wife's husband. Polyandry tends to make the other husband pretty angry.Bronco73idi wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 6:36 pmParley Pratt still wins that round. Your first example reminded me of the story of David, David won that round also. Brigham young is in second a lot.LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 12:49 pm
According to what that guy said in the video ...
I've also read the book "The Exoneration of Emma, Joseph, and Hyrum" and his research showed the first polygamist wife of BY (so his second wife) was a non-divorced woman from England who had a husband and 5 children, left England, married BY. Polyandry at its finest.
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
I didn't quote it and his post was days before mine.
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
You did quote it.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑February 10th, 2023, 9:57 amI didn't quote it and his post was days before mine.
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
Read the whole thread, I didn't. Are you referring to an entirely different thread?Luke wrote: ↑February 10th, 2023, 10:01 amYou did quote it.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑February 10th, 2023, 9:57 amI didn't quote it and his post was days before mine.
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
Luke hasn't responded, but it sounds like a "flaming sword" experience whatever it was. I'm pretty convinced that Joseph did meet an angel with a flaming sword. It's just too crazy of an experience for people to start making up about him. Joseph knew it was deception though. Lucifer and Christ are so close to appearing identical it can be almost impossible to tell them apart without prior experiences of being deceived. It is just so subtle. Moses went through that in Moses 1. The difference is that Moses first experienced Christ and then Lucifer. What if the experiences had been swapped though? What if Lucifer had come to Moses first? They just appear so close to each other. If the experience doesn't match scripture though or if there is even a hint of pride in the experience, you know you are deceived.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 1:03 pmLuke has had a spiritual manifestation about the truthfulness of polygamy. I haven't heard him explain more, but this is why all reason and logic just bounce off him. He is too emotionally invested in this experience.
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
The New and Everlasting Covenant extends back to the pre-existence and deals with posterity, rights to priesthood, and—yes—polygamy. Coming to Christ, who entered this covenant himself as a Melchizedek Priest forever, means coming into this covenant in emulation of him and in compliance with the commands of the Father.Follow_God_Not_Man wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 4:51 pmHey Luke, Why do you think the new and everlasting covenant is plural marriage? I look at JST Genesis 9 and feel that there is no room for misinterpretation on this matter.
22 And this is mine everlasting covenant, that when thy posterity shall embrace the truth, and look upward, then shall Zion look downward, and all the heavens shall shake with gladness, and the earth shall tremble with joy;
23 And the general assembly of the church of the firstborn shall come down out of heaven, and possess the earth, and shall have place until the end come. And this is mine everlasting covenant, which I made with thy father Enoch.
The scripture says that we just embrace truth, which is Christ. (Christ is the way, the TRUTH and the life.) We just have to give up our false traditions, like Babylon and plural marriage and endowments and all this other weird stuff. Christ never said to do any of that stuff. He just said to go to Him and seek Him and that's it. We just give all that up and look to Christ and then comes Zion. No where in those versus does it say anything about plural marriage being the new and everlasting covenant. Is there anywhere you get that from apart from D&C 132 and the teachings of Brigham Young?
Read more here: Horite Priest-Kings, the New and Everlasting Covenant, and the Succession Crisis of 1844.
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
He was shot.LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 7:04 pmWell, BY didn't get stabbed to death like PPP did by his wife's husband. Polyandry tends to make the other husband pretty angry.Bronco73idi wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 6:36 pmParley Pratt still wins that round. Your first example reminded me of the story of David, David won that round also. Brigham young is in second a lot.LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 12:49 pmAccording to what that guy said in the video ...Cruiserdude wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 8:35 am
I always assumed that about BY and marrying wives of men he sent on missions was heavily embellished. Is that really how that went down?
If so, how do the apologists explain what happened? I'm asking sincerely....
I've also read the book "The Exoneration of Emma, Joseph, and Hyrum" and his research showed the first polygamist wife of BY (so his second wife) was a non-divorced woman from England who had a husband and 5 children, left England, married BY. Polyandry at its finest.
- LDS Physician
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
We’re both right!!Robin Hood wrote: ↑February 10th, 2023, 4:12 pmHe was shot.LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 7:04 pmWell, BY didn't get stabbed to death like PPP did by his wife's husband. Polyandry tends to make the other husband pretty angry.Bronco73idi wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 6:36 pmParley Pratt still wins that round. Your first example reminded me of the story of David, David won that round also. Brigham young is in second a lot.LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 12:49 pm
According to what that guy said in the video ...
I've also read the book "The Exoneration of Emma, Joseph, and Hyrum" and his research showed the first polygamist wife of BY (so his second wife) was a non-divorced woman from England who had a husband and 5 children, left England, married BY. Polyandry at its finest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parley_P._Pratt
- Luke
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
Which “example”? We need sources.LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 7:39 amHow about the example of BY marrying another man's wife, sending him on a mission, and then impregnating her? How can this be "living the Fullness of the New and Everlasting Covenant?"
Now repeat that 13 more times ... other men's wives. LOL
Hilarious.
- Robin Hood
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
It's highlighted in the video.Luke wrote: ↑February 11th, 2023, 3:05 amWhich “example”? We need sources.LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 7:39 amHow about the example of BY marrying another man's wife, sending him on a mission, and then impregnating her? How can this be "living the Fullness of the New and Everlasting Covenant?"
Now repeat that 13 more times ... other men's wives. LOL
Hilarious.
- Luke
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Re: Jeremy Hoop. Precision & Polygamy: Examining accusations against Joseph Smith.
Are sources provided?Robin Hood wrote: ↑February 11th, 2023, 3:36 amIt's highlighted in the video.Luke wrote: ↑February 11th, 2023, 3:05 amWhich “example”? We need sources.LDS Physician wrote: ↑February 9th, 2023, 7:39 amHow about the example of BY marrying another man's wife, sending him on a mission, and then impregnating her? How can this be "living the Fullness of the New and Everlasting Covenant?"
Now repeat that 13 more times ... other men's wives. LOL
Hilarious.