There is a sickness in the church

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LDS Physician
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There is a sickness in the church

Post by LDS Physician »

I think that sickness is idolatry.

As many of you know, I'm a physician and in a stake presidency. Was recently involved in the release of a bishopric after 5 years of service and the calling of a new bishopric. We spent about an hour with the old bishopric and asked them what they each considered the most valuable lesson of their service.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the box, but I have spent over 25 years observing people, looking for signs and symptoms of underlying illness and trauma. Their answers made it clear to me that there is illness in the church.

One counselor spent 10 minutes literally praising the general handbook. His answer to "what have you learned serving in the bishopric for 5 years" was "the handbook is an inspired document." I had to stifle a laugh when he mentioned in his praise of this handbook that "it is an inspired book mingled with scripture."

The bishop himself surprised me with his answer, which was essentially "how wonderful the prophet Russell M Nelson is" ... and to explain just how wonderful and inspired he is as a leader, the bishop listed many of his accomplishments: The Come Follow Me manual, the upgrades to the SLC Temple, moving bishops from focusing on everyone to only focusing on youth, and most recently (glory be to this magnanimous change): having opening prayers at the beginning of the second hour of church again.

Do I need to state the obvious here? There was no mention of the Savior and of his love for each individual or ... the atonement and how it rescues everyone or ... gratitude to Jesus Christ for his inspiration and guidance.

The sickness is idolatry. Idolatry of the corporation, its leaders, and its pseudo-scripture.

I don't even know what to do. I literally feel like I'm on the deck of a ship that is spinning in circles in a storm with its sails torn and everyone else on board thinks that everything is just hunky dorey, that we're headed in the right direction, and that the monstrously black and roiling storm in the distance isn't a thing to worry about.

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Niemand
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Niemand »

I've always felt the LDS sickness is pride. Not only does the church and many of its members have an inflated opinion of themselves (which the rest of the world does not share, and ignores them most of the time)... but people think as soon as they get the priesthood, endowment or even second anointing that they can do as they wish and they know best.

Some members, particularly the further up the hierarchy you go, are very full of themselves. Some of them are downright snobs (even though plenty of other churches are far more upper class socially.)

Another example of this is how the church institution almost never apologises even when it has made significant mistakes and backed down on them. Like someone on here says, like a shark, always forwards never backwards even when it's wrong.

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LDS Physician
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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Niemand wrote: February 1st, 2023, 4:57 am I've always felt the LDS sickness is pride. Not only does the church and many of its members have an inflated opinion of themselves (which the rest of the world does not share, and ignores them most of the time)... but people think as soon as they get the priesthood, endowment or even second anointing that they can do as they wish and they know best.

Some members, particularly the further up the hierarchy you go, are very full of themselves. Some of them are downright snobs (even though plenty of other churches are far more upper class socially.)

Another example of this is how the church institution almost never apologises even when it has made significant mistakes and backed down on them. Like someone on here says, like a shark, always forwards never backwards even when it's wrong.
I completely and fully agree. There is a hautiness that is apparent in many. It is ironic, actually. Truly understanding the gospel of Christ should result in an understanding of one's absolute reliance on the Savior. We should feel so fearfully lucky to (despite our sins and weakness and falterings) be saved and that we have no quality equivalent to the salvation we've been given. In other words, we should have a broken heart and a contrite spirit.

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tmac
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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Part of the recipe for idolatry and pride seems pretty clear. The mantra of the Church for decades has been that everything it does is personally directed by God Himself, through His only chosen PSRs, and it is the one and only church on the face of the earth that is thus personally directed by God. And some of the biggest fruits and manifestations of this are the massive wealth of the Church and many of its members (Prosperity Gospel — if you keep the commandments you will prosper financially and have financial affluence). So when you’re that special, blessed and chosen, it’s tough not to have some pretty serious institutional pride and idolatry.
Last edited by tmac on February 1st, 2023, 6:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

It’s not too difficult to understand why. I mean, yes, it’s incredibly sad, but when the upper hierarchy have literally made lesser gods of themselves, how do you expect the members to respond? I’m paraphrasing these two quotes, but this is what they are saying:

“I can do no wrong, God won’t allow it.”

“I speak the very words of God.”

When members quote a church leader it is just as good as quoting the Lord, they are synonymous in their mind.

The handbook comment, as funny as it sounds to many of us, is sooo true. It is the gospel.

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LDS Physician
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by LDS Physician »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 1st, 2023, 5:32 am It’s not too difficult to understand why. I mean, yes, it’s incredibly sad, but when the upper hierarchy have literally made lesser gods of themselves, how do you expect the members to respond? I’m paraphrasing these two quotes, but this is what they are saying:

“I can do no wrong, God won’t allow it.”

“I speak the very words of God.”

When members quote a church leader it is just as good as quoting the Lord, they are synonymous in their mind.

The handbook comment, as funny as it sounds to many of us, is sooo true. It is the gospel.
Exactly. I feel completely impotent to do anything about it ... and I have a microphone / pulpit! Every talk I give has as its baseline message: turn to Christ. I give no mention of "the covenant path", "follow the prophet", or "attend the temple". I don't see any of those mantras in the scriptures.

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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

LDS Physician wrote: February 1st, 2023, 5:44 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 1st, 2023, 5:32 am It’s not too difficult to understand why. I mean, yes, it’s incredibly sad, but when the upper hierarchy have literally made lesser gods of themselves, how do you expect the members to respond? I’m paraphrasing these two quotes, but this is what they are saying:

“I can do no wrong, God won’t allow it.”

“I speak the very words of God.”

When members quote a church leader it is just as good as quoting the Lord, they are synonymous in their mind.

The handbook comment, as funny as it sounds to many of us, is sooo true. It is the gospel.
Exactly. I feel completely impotent to do anything about it ... and I have a microphone / pulpit! Every talk I give has as its baseline message: turn to Christ. I give no mention of "the covenant path", "follow the prophet", or "attend the temple". I don't see any of those mantras in the scriptures.
I do applaud those of you who are able to continue to have a positive influence in your wards and stakes. My stars aligned differently, but I believe that was for my own path going forward.

Now, as far as covenants, prophets, and temples, all of these have beautiful significance IF they were taught correctly. This is honestly one of the more difficult parts for me, to see where we could have been as a people.

Does God honor covenants? Yes, if they were taught and entered into correctly.

Does God inspired men and women to prophecy? Yes… but not these men.

Should eternal truths and ordinances be taught in the temple? Yes, but they’ve become corrupted.

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Robin Hood
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Robin Hood »

LDS Physician wrote: February 1st, 2023, 4:53 am I think that sickness is idolatry.

As many of you know, I'm a physician and in a stake presidency. Was recently involved in the release of a bishopric after 5 years of service and the calling of a new bishopric. We spent about an hour with the old bishopric and asked them what they each considered the most valuable lesson of their service.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the box, but I have spent over 25 years observing people, looking for signs and symptoms of underlying illness and trauma. Their answers made it clear to me that there is illness in the church.

One counselor spent 10 minutes literally praising the general handbook. His answer to "what have you learned serving in the bishopric for 5 years" was "the handbook is an inspired document." I had to stifle a laugh when he mentioned in his praise of this handbook that "it is an inspired book mingled with scripture."

The bishop himself surprised me with his answer, which was essentially "how wonderful the prophet Russell M Nelson is" ... and to explain just how wonderful and inspired he is as a leader, the bishop listed many of his accomplishments: The Come Follow Me manual, the upgrades to the SLC Temple, moving bishops from focusing on everyone to only focusing on youth, and most recently (glory be to this magnanimous change): having opening prayers at the beginning of the second hour of church again.

Do I need to state the obvious here? There was no mention of the Savior and of his love for each individual or ... the atonement and how it rescues everyone or ... gratitude to Jesus Christ for his inspiration and guidance.

The sickness is idolatry. Idolatry of the corporation, its leaders, and its pseudo-scripture.

I don't even know what to do. I literally feel like I'm on the deck of a ship that is spinning in circles in a storm with its sails torn and everyone else on board thinks that everything is just hunky dorey, that we're headed in the right direction, and that the monstrously black and roiling storm in the distance isn't a thing to worry about.
I resonate with everything you say.
Idolatry is a sickness, and is rapidly progressing towards a terminal condition for many in the church.

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Momma J
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Momma J »

LDS Physician ~ You are a blessed servant of the Lord. I truly appreciate the words that you share with us. I pray that I might be able reach members of my ward with my testimony. I have humbled myself and pray for guidance to steer others back to Christ.

I feel I am failing, and I fear it is due to me ignoring the promptings to go to the pulpit and preach in a "Fire and Brimstone" .... call to repentance style of teaching.

They need to be shook to the foundations of their souls. Their complacency is an abomination.... and I sit quietly and pray. My courage fails me.... and I am failing the Lord.... and I am sobbing because I am just now, while typing these words, fully understanding.

Thank you!

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Robin Hood
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Robin Hood »

Momma J wrote: February 1st, 2023, 6:26 am LDS Physician ~ You are a blessed servant of the Lord. I truly appreciate the words that you share with us. I pray that I might be able reach members of my ward with my testimony. I have humbled myself and pray for guidance to steer others back to Christ.

I feel I am failing, and I fear it is due to me ignoring the promptings to go to the pulpit and preach in a "Fire and Brimstone" .... call to repentance style of teaching.

They need to be shook to the foundations of their souls. Their complacency is an abomination.... and I sit quietly and pray. My courage fails me.... and I am failing the Lord.... and I am sobbing because I am just now, while typing these words, fully understanding.

Thank you!
I feel that way too.
Every testimony meeting I determine to go to the stand and tell it like it is. But I chicken out.
I watch the same people climb the Rameumptum each month and repeat the same generic phrases almost verbatim, while I clock-watch until the whole tedious thing's over and the congregation breathes an almost audible collective sigh of relief.
Perhaps this Sunday....
Last edited by Robin Hood on February 3rd, 2023, 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Niemand
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Niemand »

Robin Hood wrote: February 1st, 2023, 6:38 am I feel that way too.
Every testimony meeting I determine to go to the stand and tell it like it is. But I chicken out.
I watch the same people climb the Rameumptum each month and repeat the same generic phrases almost verbatim, while I clock-watch until the whole tedious thing's over and the congregation breaths an almost audible collective sigh of relief.
Perhaps this Sunday....
Best to do it in a ward/stake where nobody knows you.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

BTW, speaking of “boats”, Joseph Smith had some dreams about that… :)

https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/josephs-last-dreams

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TheChristian
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by TheChristian »

Robin Hood wrote: February 1st, 2023, 6:38 am
Momma J wrote: February 1st, 2023, 6:26 am LDS Physician ~ You are a blessed servant of the Lord. I truly appreciate the words that you share with us. I pray that I might be able reach members of my ward with my testimony. I have humbled myself and pray for guidance to steer others back to Christ.

I feel I am failing, and I fear it is due to me ignoring the promptings to go to the pulpit and preach in a "Fire and Brimstone" .... call to repentance style of teaching.

They need to be shook to the foundations of their souls. Their complacency is an abomination.... and I sit quietly and pray. My courage fails me.... and I am failing the Lord.... and I am sobbing because I am just now, while typing these words, fully understanding.

Thank you!
I feel that way too.
Every testimony meeting I determine to go to the stand and tell it like it is. But I chicken out.
I watch the same people climb the Rameumptum each month and repeat the same generic phrases almost verbatim, while I clock-watch until the whole tedious thing's over and the congregation breaths an almost audible collective sigh of relief.
Perhaps this Sunday....
My brother Robin, your church is fragile, many are seeking, yearning for comfort, they need not bluntness, go forth and speak of Jesus our Lord, of his personal love for each and every one of them, to cast their cares apon Him for He truly cares for each and every one of them, yes lift up your voice concerning your risen Lord Jesus and of His promises to those that pick up their crosses and follow Him.
Bring them the love the Lord has for them and the love you have for them also, that you may be used greatly to bless and uplift your weary brothers and sisters in Christ in these last of days..........

"He will not break a bruised reed, and he will not put out a smoldering wick;"

briznian
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by briznian »

I see this idolatry as well. I often see mundane quotes from them passed around and praised on social media. The only reason I can think of why members find them remarkable is WHO said it, not what was said.

The idolatry has been there for quite some time. It does seem to have ratcheted up in recent years.

25+ years ago as a youth I attended a ground breaking for a temple to be built in my area. Many of the members of my ward were there and we all travelled together to be there. Afterwards, a sister in my ward approached me with some small stones that she had found and she wanted to give me some. The stones had gold paint on them from the shovels that had touched the hands of President Monson. I was supposed to cherish the stones. I thanked her kindly and when she walked away i tossed them back onto the ground. That is my primary memory of the event.

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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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TheChristian wrote: February 1st, 2023, 6:59 am
My brother Robin, your church is fragile, many are seeking, yearning for comfort, they need not bluntness, go forth and speak of Jesus our Lord, of his personal love for each and every one of them, to cast their cares apon Him for He truly cares for each and every one of them, yes lift up your voice concerning your risen Lord Jesus and of His promises to those that pick up their crosses and follow Him.
Bring them the love the Lord has for them and the love you have for them also, that you may be used greatly to bless and uplift your weary brothers and sisters in Christ in these last of days..........

"He will not break a bruised reed, and he will not put out a smoldering wick;"
Would you not raise a warning voice to the chickens as the fox circles the hen house?

It is interesting that almost all animal species have a warning system for danger. They couldn’t give a rip about what others thought about them. But we humans are a special breed, we care about how our friends and our idols perceive us, regardless the imminent danger that exists.
Last edited by Reluctant Watchman on February 1st, 2023, 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BigT
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by BigT »

Great thread! So much to think about.

We’ve bailed from church activity, but I’m not yet sure it’s right. Can’t stand the idea of listening to talks based on what “the arm of flesh” has said instead of what the Lord has said, but it might be possible to reach a few.

We tend to lack faith in the Lord’s ability to make something of us in this regard, don’t we? Perhaps it’s better said we might be lacking faith in ourselves to be a useful servant of His.

Do I have the Holy Spirit as my guide? Am I reacting out of anger at my world view collapsing (not a bad thing as I want to know the truth)? Lots to ponder and pray about.

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LDS Physician
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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Momma J wrote: February 1st, 2023, 6:26 am LDS Physician ~ You are a blessed servant of the Lord. I truly appreciate the words that you share with us. I pray that I might be able reach members of my ward with my testimony. I have humbled myself and pray for guidance to steer others back to Christ.

I feel I am failing, and I fear it is due to me ignoring the promptings to go to the pulpit and preach in a "Fire and Brimstone" .... call to repentance style of teaching.

They need to be shook to the foundations of their souls. Their complacency is an abomination.... and I sit quietly and pray. My courage fails me.... and I am failing the Lord.... and I am sobbing because I am just now, while typing these words, fully understanding.

Thank you!
What a sweet, heartfelt thing to say. All I can think when reading the first paragraph is what the Savior said when someone called him "Good" ... there is no one good but The Father.

I echo your frustration and double down on the bemoanings you mentioned about yourself: I'm a wretch, lazy, fearful, and blind.

Thankfully, we idolize the Master and he will act at the perfect time and in the perfect way. We are fortunate his bowels are filled with mercy and for the repentant he has satisfied justice.
Last edited by LDS Physician on February 1st, 2023, 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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LDS Physician
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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briznian wrote: February 1st, 2023, 7:00 am I see this idolatry as well. I often see mundane quotes from them passed around and praised on social media. The only reason I can think of why members find them remarkable is WHO said it, not what was said.

The idolatry has been there for quite some time. It does seem to have ratcheted up in recent years.

25+ years ago as a youth I attended a ground breaking for a temple to be built in my area. Many of the members of my ward were there and we all travelled together to be there. Afterwards, a sister in my ward approached me with some small stones that she had found and she wanted to give me some. The stones had gold paint on them from the shovels that had touched the hands of President Monson. I was supposed to cherish the stones. I thanked her kindly and when she walked away i tossed them back onto the ground. That is my primary memory of the event.
What's impressive about your story is that you knew even as a youth ... I didn't. I was enamored. I bought the idolatry hook, line, and sinker. Kudos for you!

Valo
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Valo »

LDS Physician wrote: February 1st, 2023, 4:53 am I think that sickness is idolatry.

As many of you know, I'm a physician and in a stake presidency. Was recently involved in the release of a bishopric after 5 years of service and the calling of a new bishopric. We spent about an hour with the old bishopric and asked them what they each considered the most valuable lesson of their service.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the box, but I have spent over 25 years observing people, looking for signs and symptoms of underlying illness and trauma. Their answers made it clear to me that there is illness in the church.

One counselor spent 10 minutes literally praising the general handbook. His answer to "what have you learned serving in the bishopric for 5 years" was "the handbook is an inspired document." I had to stifle a laugh when he mentioned in his praise of this handbook that "it is an inspired book mingled with scripture."

The bishop himself surprised me with his answer, which was essentially "how wonderful the prophet Russell M Nelson is" ... and to explain just how wonderful and inspired he is as a leader, the bishop listed many of his accomplishments: The Come Follow Me manual, the upgrades to the SLC Temple, moving bishops from focusing on everyone to only focusing on youth, and most recently (glory be to this magnanimous change): having opening prayers at the beginning of the second hour of church again.

Do I need to state the obvious here? There was no mention of the Savior and of his love for each individual or ... the atonement and how it rescues everyone or ... gratitude to Jesus Christ for his inspiration and guidance.

The sickness is idolatry. Idolatry of the corporation, its leaders, and its pseudo-scripture.

I don't even know what to do. I literally feel like I'm on the deck of a ship that is spinning in circles in a storm with its sails torn and everyone else on board thinks that everything is just hunky dorey, that we're headed in the right direction, and that the monstrously black and roiling storm in the distance isn't a thing to worry about.
...

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LDS Physician
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by LDS Physician »

BigT wrote: February 1st, 2023, 7:05 am Great thread! So much to think about.

We’ve bailed from church activity, but I’m not yet sure it’s right. Can’t stand the idea of listening to talks based on what “the arm of flesh” has said instead of what the Lord has said, but it might be possible to reach a few.

We tend to lack faith in the Lord’s ability to make something of us in this regard, don’t we? Perhaps it’s better said we might be lacking faith in ourselves to be a useful servant of His.

Do I have the Holy Spirit as my guide? Am I reacting out of anger at my world view collapsing (not a bad thing as I want to know the truth)? Lots to ponder and pray about.
Great thoughts. I know wonderful "sheep" who have left the church over this stuff and others who stick to activity (like myself). I'm certain the Lord can guide people in different ways. Who am I to question how people respond to this?

All I know for certain is that the Lord requires a broken heart and a contrite spirit ... that's the sacrifice he wants us to give. For me, having my eyes opened to the corruption and apostacy that is intermingled with the good shepherds and the good sheep has helped in the breaking of my heart and spirit. So, I'm staying until the Lord directs me to do otherwise.

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TheChristian
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by TheChristian »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 1st, 2023, 7:01 am
TheChristian wrote: February 1st, 2023, 6:59 am
My brother Robin, your church is fragile, many are seeking, yearning for comfort, they need not bluntness, go forth and speak of Jesus our Lord, of his personal love for each and every one of them, to cast their cares apon Him for He truly cares for each and every one of them, yes lift up your voice concerning your risen Lord Jesus and of His promises to those that pick up their crosses and follow Him.
Bring them the love the Lord has for them and the love you have for them also, that you may be used greatly to bless and uplift your weary brothers and sisters in Christ in these last of days..........

"He will not break a bruised reed, and he will not put out a smoldering wick;"

Would you not raise a warning voice to the chickens as the fox circles the hen house?

It is interesting that almost all animal species have a warning system for danger. They couldn’t give a rip about what others thought about them. But we humans are a special breed, we care about how our friends and our idols perceive us, regardless the imminent danger that exists.

If the sheep are sick, they cannot run from the wily fox, regardless of whom raises the warning voice.
The Shepard loves His sickly sheep and those that are lost............He therefore goes out himself to tend his sick flock with much kindness mopping the sorrows from their brows and healing their sicknesses and once He has lifted up his sickly flock to health, He then leaves them to go look for the sheep that are lost.
And with tender cries He calls out for them and when He finds them He rejoices, and He takes that lost and lonely sheep apon His shoulders back to the flock.

I am just thankfull that the Lord came looking for me, and when He found me, there was no harsh words or anger, there was mercy and joy and a nail pierced hand stretched out to help me back on my feet again......
And my Lord and I both rejoiced together..........

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Gadianton Slayer
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

Pseudo-scripture is a good way to put it. It’s certainly idolatry, but most don’t even understand why. Maybe it’s over used, but for example: “the prophet can never lead you astray”… so many claim to believe this, and I’ve talked with people who always say it’s scripturally supported… but I’ve yet to find a single instance where this concept is taught in any legitimate scripture; however, the opposite is made pretty clear throughout the BoM.

Basically what I’m saying is that it’s also pseudo-idolatry. They worship idols for reasons that don’t even exist. It’s all based around circular logic… ex: “I believe the prophet can’t lead me astray because he told me so, and I trust him because he can’t lead me astray.”

The entire system is the LDS org is designed for polarization. You either believe every teaching as it comes from the current leadership or you are exiled. They are the only true church, everyone else is wrong. Quite literally a rameumpton, which has SO many similarities when you compare the prayers of those people to members today.

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Chip
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Chip »

LDS Physician wrote: February 1st, 2023, 5:44 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 1st, 2023, 5:32 am It’s not too difficult to understand why. I mean, yes, it’s incredibly sad, but when the upper hierarchy have literally made lesser gods of themselves, how do you expect the members to respond? I’m paraphrasing these two quotes, but this is what they are saying:

“I can do no wrong, God won’t allow it.”

“I speak the very words of God.”

When members quote a church leader it is just as good as quoting the Lord, they are synonymous in their mind.

The handbook comment, as funny as it sounds to many of us, is sooo true. It is the gospel.
Exactly. I feel completely impotent to do anything about it ... and I have a microphone / pulpit! Every talk I give has as its baseline message: turn to Christ. I give no mention of "the covenant path", "follow the prophet", or "attend the temple". I don't see any of those mantras in the scriptures.

Anything you say in a talk will be automatically construed as, "Follow the prophet, stay on the covenant path, attend the temple." You would have to explicitly state that the reason you're not specifically talking about those things is because YOU think that only following Christ matters. And then say it again in three different ways to drive the point. It's all a homogenous, pasteurized liquid food to the members. Their minds will reflexively synthesize any missing ingredient in the formula, so their ration is complete. Six-sigma quality will be perceived, barring an angry meltdown at the rameumpton.

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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

TheChristian wrote: February 1st, 2023, 7:27 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 1st, 2023, 7:01 am
TheChristian wrote: February 1st, 2023, 6:59 am
My brother Robin, your church is fragile, many are seeking, yearning for comfort, they need not bluntness, go forth and speak of Jesus our Lord, of his personal love for each and every one of them, to cast their cares apon Him for He truly cares for each and every one of them, yes lift up your voice concerning your risen Lord Jesus and of His promises to those that pick up their crosses and follow Him.
Bring them the love the Lord has for them and the love you have for them also, that you may be used greatly to bless and uplift your weary brothers and sisters in Christ in these last of days..........

"He will not break a bruised reed, and he will not put out a smoldering wick;"

Would you not raise a warning voice to the chickens as the fox circles the hen house?

It is interesting that almost all animal species have a warning system for danger. They couldn’t give a rip about what others thought about them. But we humans are a special breed, we care about how our friends and our idols perceive us, regardless the imminent danger that exists.

If the sheep are sick, they cannot run from the wily fox, regardless of whom raises the warning voice.
The Shepard loves His sickly sheep and those that are lost............He therefore goes out himself to tend his sick flock with much kindness mopping the sorrows from their brows and healing their sicknesses and once He has lifted up his sickly flock to health, He then leaves them to go look for the sheep that are lost.
And with tender cries He calls out for them and when He finds them He rejoices, and He takes that lost and lonely sheep apon His shoulders back to the flock.

I am just thankfull that the Lord came looking for me, and when He found me, there was no harsh words or anger, there was mercy and joy and a nail pierced hand stretched out to help me back on my feet again......
And my Lord and I both rejoiced together..........
Nobody said anything about chastising the sheep. Raising a voice of warning is directed toward the errant shepherds and stewards. You have to expose false beliefs and precepts. Christ did this himself in during his ministry.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Chip wrote: February 1st, 2023, 7:45 am Anything you say in a talk will be automatically construed as, "Follow the prophet, stay on the covenant path, attend the temple." You would have to explicitly state that the reason you're not specifically talking about those things is because YOU think that only following Christ matters. And then say it again in three different ways to drive the point. It's all a homogenous, pasteurized liquid food to the members. Their minds will reflexively synthesize any missing ingredient in the formula, so their ration is complete. Six-sigma quality will be perceived, barring an angry meltdown at the rameumpton.
This is so true. You can preach #HearHim all day long and they’ll equate that with “follow the prophet.”

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