There is a sickness in the church

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briznian
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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TheDuke wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:29 am I love your OP! I do not see it as idolatry however. Perverse maybe, but I take care and call idolatry as defined in the scriptures (not GA's GC talks) as literally worshiping an object, and that would include not only reverence to it but praying to it. Not sure anyone prays to the handbook or RMN.
For most members I ask one question: Who or what do you turn to first when you are looking for answers?

For most people I know its...
What has President Nelson said about this?
What does the handbook say about this?

instead of...

What has the Lord said about this?

I've posted this before on the forum but I'll post it again:
We discover an error in Elder Marshe’s letter— He says, “To the able preaching of Elders W. E. M.c.Lellin & P. P. Pratt.” We conclude that if it had been the preaching of the Lord, as it should have been, he would have had the honor, and not these men.
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... ust-1835/3

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HereWeGo
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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Momma J wrote: February 1st, 2023, 6:26 am They need to be shook to the foundations of their souls.
This will happen to those who are open to learning new things and it will be done by the Lord. I hope to be able to help those who do awaken when they are shaken. If their testimony is Christ, they will probably see. If their testimony is follow the prophet, they will not see but continue following their testimony.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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LDS Physician wrote: February 1st, 2023, 4:53 am "it is an inspired book mingled with scripture."
He really included the words mingled with scripture? That's hilarious!!

TwochurchesOnly
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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silverado wrote: February 1st, 2023, 9:32 am "When we stand before the bar of God on Judgement Day, we will be asked how well we followed the prophets, especially the living ones of our day."

Recent talk in Sacrament meeting.

They are so idolized, they cant admit to any mistake. They have to swim only forward.
Wow - surreal

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TheDuke
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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Obrien wrote: February 1st, 2023, 12:13 pm
TheDuke wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:29 am
LDS Physician wrote: February 1st, 2023, 4:53 am I think that sickness is idolatry.

As many of you know, I'm a physician and in a stake presidency. Was recently involved in the release of a bishopric after 5 years of service and the calling of a new bishopric. We spent about an hour with the old bishopric and asked them what they each considered the most valuable lesson of their service.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the box, but I have spent over 25 years observing people, looking for signs and symptoms of underlying illness and trauma. Their answers made it clear to me that there is illness in the church.

One counselor spent 10 minutes literally praising the general handbook. His answer to "what have you learned serving in the bishopric for 5 years" was "the handbook is an inspired document." I had to stifle a laugh when he mentioned in his praise of this handbook that "it is an inspired book mingled with scripture."

The bishop himself surprised me with his answer, which was essentially "how wonderful the prophet Russell M Nelson is" ... and to explain just how wonderful and inspired he is as a leader, the bishop listed many of his accomplishments: The Come Follow Me manual, the upgrades to the SLC Temple, moving bishops from focusing on everyone to only focusing on youth, and most recently (glory be to this magnanimous change): having opening prayers at the beginning of the second hour of church again.

Do I need to state the obvious here? There was no mention of the Savior and of his love for each individual or ... the atonement and how it rescues everyone or ... gratitude to Jesus Christ for his inspiration and guidance.

The sickness is idolatry. Idolatry of the corporation, its leaders, and its pseudo-scripture.

I don't even know what to do. I literally feel like I'm on the deck of a ship that is spinning in circles in a storm with its sails torn and everyone else on board thinks that everything is just hunky dorey, that we're headed in the right direction, and that the monstrously black and roiling storm in the distance isn't a thing to worry about.
I love your OP! I do not see it as idolatry however. Perverse maybe, but I take care and call idolatry as defined in the scriptures (not GA's GC talks) as literally worshiping an object, and that would include not only reverence to it but praying to it. Not sure anyone prays to the handbook or RMN.
Not to pile on unnecessarily Duke, but Oxford Dictionary says idolatry is :" extreme admiration, love, or reverence for something or someone." Listen to people bear their "testimony" of our beloved and dear prophet, even Russell Marion Nelson. Their words, and more importantly their tone, always conveys the admiration, love and reverence the testimony bearer has for RMN.
pile right on, but first please read what I wrote. I clearly talk about idolatry in the bible sense. We have, as I said made it what ever the hell we want today. We are woke, so are current dictionaries. But that is not the point. The point is we here, say idolatry, then quote Moses and Isaiah, and other OT prophets that didn't read the Oxford or assign "figurative" meanings to "biblical" terms. BTW if you follow Reluctants take, will will require RMN to be killed as that is the punishment. And never did he say worship me. See, his silly take above, someone says prophets cannot lead you astray (comments I rebuff but am ok to assume here) means he proclaims himself a deity.

On another thread I mentioned that I am (was last year) one of the world's foremost experts on assuring or putting trust on AI. That is just a fact. I promise if you follow the procedures I put (or led the team to put) into the international standard that you will never be led astray by the AI, or at the least no more often that once in XXXmillion (BTW Moses led the children of Israel astry a couple of times and was chastised for it). Yet I don't claim to be deity. that is the logic I find flawed.

But, YOU ALL go ahead and reassign the term "idolatry" to a new woke/figurative meaning. You have that right. But, not then to claim any measure of the OLD definition in the ancient scriptures. As there idolatry involved making and worshipping dumb, physical idols, which is different than me or you admiring your car or house or calling or wife or family or child.

Valo
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Valo »

TheDuke wrote: February 1st, 2023, 3:01 pm
Obrien wrote: February 1st, 2023, 12:13 pm
TheDuke wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:29 am
LDS Physician wrote: February 1st, 2023, 4:53 am I think that sickness is idolatry.

As many of you know, I'm a physician and in a stake presidency. Was recently involved in the release of a bishopric after 5 years of service and the calling of a new bishopric. We spent about an hour with the old bishopric and asked them what they each considered the most valuable lesson of their service.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the box, but I have spent over 25 years observing people, looking for signs and symptoms of underlying illness and trauma. Their answers made it clear to me that there is illness in the church.

One counselor spent 10 minutes literally praising the general handbook. His answer to "what have you learned serving in the bishopric for 5 years" was "the handbook is an inspired document." I had to stifle a laugh when he mentioned in his praise of this handbook that "it is an inspired book mingled with scripture."

The bishop himself surprised me with his answer, which was essentially "how wonderful the prophet Russell M Nelson is" ... and to explain just how wonderful and inspired he is as a leader, the bishop listed many of his accomplishments: The Come Follow Me manual, the upgrades to the SLC Temple, moving bishops from focusing on everyone to only focusing on youth, and most recently (glory be to this magnanimous change): having opening prayers at the beginning of the second hour of church again.

Do I need to state the obvious here? There was no mention of the Savior and of his love for each individual or ... the atonement and how it rescues everyone or ... gratitude to Jesus Christ for his inspiration and guidance.

The sickness is idolatry. Idolatry of the corporation, its leaders, and its pseudo-scripture.

I don't even know what to do. I literally feel like I'm on the deck of a ship that is spinning in circles in a storm with its sails torn and everyone else on board thinks that everything is just hunky dorey, that we're headed in the right direction, and that the monstrously black and roiling storm in the distance isn't a thing to worry about.
I love your OP! I do not see it as idolatry however. Perverse maybe, but I take care and call idolatry as defined in the scriptures (not GA's GC talks) as literally worshiping an object, and that would include not only reverence to it but praying to it. Not sure anyone prays to the handbook or RMN.
Not to pile on unnecessarily Duke, but Oxford Dictionary says idolatry is :" extreme admiration, love, or reverence for something or someone." Listen to people bear their "testimony" of our beloved and dear prophet, even Russell Marion Nelson. Their words, and more importantly their tone, always conveys the admiration, love and reverence the testimony bearer has for RMN.
pile right on, but first please read what I wrote. I clearly talk about idolatry in the bible sense. We have, as I said made it what ever the hell we want today. We are woke, so are current dictionaries. But that is not the point. The point is we here, say idolatry, then quote Moses and Isaiah, and other OT prophets that didn't read the Oxford or assign "figurative" meanings to "biblical" terms. BTW if you follow Reluctants take, will will require RMN to be killed as that is the punishment. And never did he say worship me. See, his silly take above, someone says prophets cannot lead you astray (comments I rebuff but am ok to assume here) means he proclaims himself a deity.

On another thread I mentioned that I am (was last year) one of the world's foremost experts on assuring or putting trust on AI. That is just a fact. I promise if you follow the procedures I put (or led the team to put) into the international standard that you will never be led astray by the AI, or at the least no more often that once in XXXmillion (BTW Moses led the children of Israel astry a couple of times and was chastised for it). Yet I don't claim to be deity. that is the logic I find flawed.

But, YOU ALL go ahead and reassign the term "idolatry" to a new woke/figurative meaning. You have that right. But, not then to claim any measure of the OLD definition in the ancient scriptures. As there idolatry involved making and worshipping dumb, physical idols, which is different than me or you admiring your car or house or calling or wife or family or child.
Epistle of Barnabas, check it out!

...

TwochurchesOnly
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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HeberC wrote: February 1st, 2023, 12:06 pm
Niemand wrote: February 1st, 2023, 6:43 am
Robin Hood wrote: February 1st, 2023, 6:38 am I feel that way too.
Every testimony meeting I determine to go to the stand and tell it like it is. But I chicken out.
I watch the same people climb the Rameumptum each month and repeat the same generic phrases almost verbatim, while I clock-watch until the whole tedious thing's over and the congregation breaths an almost audible collective sigh of relief.
Perhaps this Sunday....
Best to do it in a ward/stake where nobody knows you.
I did that. I bore my testimony of Christ and his interaction with me in another ward. The bishop is an old and dear friend of mine. The next fast Sunday, he walked to the back of the chapel, where I was sitting, and asked me not to bear my testimony.

SMH
🤯

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TheDuke
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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Valo wrote: February 1st, 2023, 3:19 pm
Epistle of Barnabas, check it out!

...
Is my English so bad? I think I said the "bible". I suppose I should then have to say valid, LDS read KJV? Not other non-cannonized scriptures, not even BoM......... bible... I feel there are none but no one else will admit it. I don't claim it means a doctrinal change for us. but it does mean it is difficult to map our current theology of adultery for a husband to the ancient teachings. I don't like it. But, it appears to be the way it was in the bible or as I offered, how it was captured by the scribes. It also doesn't appear to be a Nicean thing either.

Valo
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Valo »

TheDuke wrote: February 1st, 2023, 3:31 pm
Valo wrote: February 1st, 2023, 3:19 pm
Epistle of Barnabas, check it out!

...
Is my English so bad? I think I said the "bible". I suppose I should then have to say valid, LDS read KJV? Not other non-cannonized scriptures, not even BoM......... bible... I feel there are none but no one else will admit it. I don't claim it means a doctrinal change for us. but it does mean it is difficult to map our current theology of adultery for a husband to the ancient teachings. I don't like it. But, it appears to be the way it was in the bible or as I offered, how it was captured by the scribes. It also doesn't appear to be a Nicean thing either.
You read and pondered that really fast. i wonder if he even gets it?

things that make you go, hmmm

...

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JandD6572
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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I'm so glad that I'm no longer a part of this idolatry stuff. I finally mustered the courage to follow what I have been feeling for many years, and go a direction that my heart has been pulling me towards. That entire church is filled with lies and deceit. When I was a member, sitting through testimony meetings, was the worst, most often, I would just stay home on the first Sunday. Figured there was no point in sitting through yet another testimony meeting when I already know what the entire script would be. "I know the church is trueeeee, I know the book of Mormon is trueeeeee, I know joseph smith was a prophettttttt, (sniff sniff sniff) and RMN is the prophet todayyyyyy... amen. very seldom was God or the Lord mentioned. this was the same month after month. It's easy when one is indoctrinated with a pre-written script from the moment they start primary. But you know what, this church isn't any more true than the J.W, the Baptist, the Catholics, and so on. why? because each one of these churches including you Mormons all say the exact same thing, God and the holy spirit said we are the correct church.

I left this all behind because I have felt and pulled for a very long time, to go my own way, to follow the Lord, and teach from the Bible as it is written. I am working on becoming an ordained minister, if nothing else, to merely teach the love of Christ, and that only through him, of him, by him, and with him, can one gain salvation. So, enough of this crap!! quote: one can not fully come unto Christ unless one fully sustains the prophets" unquote. that is so bogus.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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JandD6572 wrote: February 1st, 2023, 4:36 pm I'm so glad that I'm no longer a part of this idolatry stuff. I finally mustered the courage to follow what I have been feeling for many years, and go a direction that my heart has been pulling me towards. That entire church is filled with lies and deceit. When I was a member, sitting through testimony meetings, was the worst, most often, I would just stay home on the first Sunday. Figured there was no point in sitting through yet another testimony meeting when I already know what the entire script would be. "I know the church is trueeeee, I know the book of Mormon is trueeeeee, I know joseph smith was a prophettttttt, (sniff sniff sniff) and RMN is the prophet todayyyyyy... amen. very seldom was God or the Lord mentioned. this was the same month after month. It's easy when one is indoctrinated with a pre-written script from the moment they start primary. But you know what, this church isn't any more true than the J.W, the Baptist, the Catholics, and so on. why? because each one of these churches including you Mormons all say the exact same thing, God and the holy spirit said we are the correct church.

I left this all behind because I have felt and pulled for a very long time, to go my own way, to follow the Lord, and teach from the Bible as it is written. I am working on becoming an ordained minister, if nothing else, to merely teach the love of Christ, and that only through him, of him, by him, and with him, can one gain salvation. So, enough of this crap!! quote: one can not fully come unto Christ unless one fully sustains the prophets" unquote. that is so bogus.
So no BoM? All lies?

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Being There
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:35 am
TheDuke wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:29 am I love your OP! I do not see it as idolatry however. Perverse maybe, but I take care and call idolatry as defined in the scriptures (not GA's GC talks) as literally worshiping an object, and that would include not only reverence to it but praying to it. Not sure anyone prays to the handbook or RMN.
Duke, we sing songs about them, we pray about them, we adore them from the pulpit, and we enforce all of that through "keys and authority." Idol worship can take any form. They just happen to be an animate object.
"Idolatry is any activity that diverts attention from the true God and his law
to a counterfeit.
Idolatry is often a corruption of what is sacred"
Avraham Gileadi

IMAGES
The first of the Ten Commandments prohibits the Lord's people from having "other God's before me" (Exod.20:3)
The first commandment specifies a particular kind of idol worship:
the making of "graven images" and "likenesses" (Exod. 20:4)
The Hebrew words from these posses the additional connotations of "statue" and "picture"

Exodus 20
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:


Image

Image

From Gileadi's book "The Last Days Types and Shadows from the Bible and the Book of Mormon"
he lists a few.

Chapter 1
Modern Idolatry - All Is Not Well In Zion


Images

Violence and Sex

Immoral Music

Organized Sports

Human Idols


Imaginations of the Heart

Nature Cults

Mammon

Babylon

The Arm of the Flesh

Elitism - Pharisaism

Pollution of the Temple

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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HeberC wrote: February 1st, 2023, 12:11 pm It was solely on Christ.
Wow… that’s crazy.

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David13
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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They worship men. They idolize the corporate executives in Salt Lake.

When I hadn't attended for a month or two, my neighbor came and asked "Dave, do you believe in the Prophet?" Or did he mean profit?

I told him I believe in God the Father.

I come from a tradition outside the church.

In no other religion have I ever seen such man worship. Such Idolatry. The Catholic priest, along with many another Christian sect are just regular men. Only one other place have I seen the same, or actually not as great adoration. Jim Jones.

They did not hold the same level of reverence that the Mormons do for their "cult leader?"
dc

Trucker
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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David13 wrote: February 1st, 2023, 10:34 pm They worship men. They idolize the corporate executives in Salt Lake.

When I hadn't attended for a month or two, my neighbor came and asked "Dave, do you believe in the Prophet?" Or did he mean profit?

I told him I believe in God the Father.

I come from a tradition outside the church.

In no other religion have I ever seen such man worship. Such Idolatry. The Catholic priest, along with many another Christian sect are just regular men. Only one other place have I seen the same, or actually not as great adoration. Jim Jones.

They did not hold the same level of reverence that the Mormons do for their "cult leader?"
dc
It's Brethrenism. We are now the Church of the Brethren.

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Lineman1012
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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David13 wrote: February 1st, 2023, 10:34 pm They worship men. They idolize the corporate executives in Salt Lake.

When I hadn't attended for a month or two, my neighbor came and asked "Dave, do you believe in the Prophet?" Or did he mean profit?

I told him I believe in God the Father.

I come from a tradition outside the church.

In no other religion have I ever seen such man worship. Such Idolatry. The Catholic priest, along with many another Christian sect are just regular men. Only one other place have I seen the same, or actually not as great adoration. Jim Jones.

They did not hold the same level of reverence that the Mormons do for their "cult leader?"
dc
I remember Jim Jones. All of his followers did as they were told and drank the koolaid and die. When RMN said get jabbed, most of his followers did and some die, some got injured and some will yet die. Prettiest much the same thing.

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Lineman1012
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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This is idolatry being taught from the top down.

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JandD6572
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by JandD6572 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 1st, 2023, 4:42 pm
JandD6572 wrote: February 1st, 2023, 4:36 pm I'm so glad that I'm no longer a part of this idolatry stuff. I finally mustered the courage to follow what I have been feeling for many years, and go a direction that my heart has been pulling me towards. That entire church is filled with lies and deceit. When I was a member, sitting through testimony meetings, was the worst, most often, I would just stay home on the first Sunday. Figured there was no point in sitting through yet another testimony meeting when I already know what the entire script would be. "I know the church is trueeeee, I know the book of Mormon is trueeeeee, I know joseph smith was a prophettttttt, (sniff sniff sniff) and RMN is the prophet todayyyyyy... amen. very seldom was God or the Lord mentioned. this was the same month after month. It's easy when one is indoctrinated with a pre-written script from the moment they start primary. But you know what, this church isn't any more true than the J.W, the Baptist, the Catholics, and so on. why? because each one of these churches including you Mormons all say the exact same thing, God and the holy spirit said we are the correct church.

I left this all behind because I have felt and pulled for a very long time, to go my own way, to follow the Lord, and teach from the Bible as it is written. I am working on becoming an ordained minister, if nothing else, to merely teach the love of Christ, and that only through him, of him, by him, and with him, can one gain salvation. So, enough of this crap!! quote: one can not fully come unto Christ unless one fully sustains the prophets" unquote. that is so bogus.
So no BoM? All lies?
I have read the book of Mormon several times, and my conclusion there isn't much more in there that isn't offered in the bible.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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JandD6572 wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 2:52 am I have read the book of Mormon several times, and my conclusion there isn't much more in there that isn't offered in the bible.
Interesting. I have friends who hold tightly to the Bible. It is a beautiful book. I have found the clarity that is added through the BoM is quite astounding. I could add a very extensive laundry list of doctrines that are included, but I doubt that would move the needle for you. One really good book written by an LDS author is Tad R. Callister’s “A Case for the Book of Mormon.”

https://www.amazon.com/Case-Book-Mormon ... 153&sr=8-1

He presents in a very succinct format the truths that the BoM either clarifies or adds to the Bible. There are some very profound differences unique to the BoM. But, even with all that Elder Callister details, he still doesn’t recognize how the LDS church doesn’t live many of the principles and doctrines taught in the BoM. For example, 2 Ne. 28:31 is crystal clear in how we recognize truth, and how we are to trust no man but under certain circumstances. There are well over a dozen or more concepts in this book.

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Niemand
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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David13 wrote: February 1st, 2023, 10:34 pm In no other religion have I ever seen such man worship. Such Idolatry. The Catholic priest, along with many another Christian sect are just regular men. Only one other place have I seen the same, or actually not as great adoration. Jim Jones.

They did not hold the same level of reverence that the Mormons do for their "cult leader?"
dc
You need to look at some of these guru groups. It's worse. Scientology as well.

I have met some Roman Catholics who idolise the pope while others ignore him.

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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Niemand wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 4:37 am
David13 wrote: February 1st, 2023, 10:34 pm In no other religion have I ever seen such man worship. Such Idolatry. The Catholic priest, along with many another Christian sect are just regular men. Only one other place have I seen the same, or actually not as great adoration. Jim Jones.

They did not hold the same level of reverence that the Mormons do for their "cult leader?"
dc
You need to look at some of these guru groups. It's worse. Scientology as well.

I have met some Roman Catholics who idolise the pope while others ignore him.
I think we are almost worse. The only difference is the LDS church hasn’t asked members to do some of the crazy things these other orgs have. That was until the pandemic. Mixing truth with lies is a powerful concoction. Like my family member said, “I would jump off a cliff if RMN asked me to.” :shock:

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LDS Physician
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 4:47 am
Niemand wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 4:37 am
David13 wrote: February 1st, 2023, 10:34 pm In no other religion have I ever seen such man worship. Such Idolatry. The Catholic priest, along with many another Christian sect are just regular men. Only one other place have I seen the same, or actually not as great adoration. Jim Jones.

They did not hold the same level of reverence that the Mormons do for their "cult leader?"
dc
You need to look at some of these guru groups. It's worse. Scientology as well.

I have met some Roman Catholics who idolise the pope while others ignore him.
I think we are almost worse. The only difference is the LDS church hasn’t asked members to do some of the crazy things these other orgs have. That was until the pandemic. Mixing truth with lies is a powerful concoction. Like my family member said, “I would jump off a cliff if RMN asked me to.” :shock:
I do recall a survey conducted on the streets of SLC and about 40% of those who were asked if they would kill themselves if asked to do so by the prophet said "YES"

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Re: There is a sickness in the church

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LDS Physician wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 5:38 am I do recall a survey conducted on the streets of SLC and about 40% of those who were asked if they would kill themselves if asked to do so by the prophet said "YES"
:shock: :shock: :shock:

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iWriteStuff
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Re: There is a sickness in the church

Post by iWriteStuff »

LDS Physician wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 5:38 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 4:47 am
Niemand wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 4:37 am
David13 wrote: February 1st, 2023, 10:34 pm In no other religion have I ever seen such man worship. Such Idolatry. The Catholic priest, along with many another Christian sect are just regular men. Only one other place have I seen the same, or actually not as great adoration. Jim Jones.

They did not hold the same level of reverence that the Mormons do for their "cult leader?"
dc
You need to look at some of these guru groups. It's worse. Scientology as well.

I have met some Roman Catholics who idolise the pope while others ignore him.
I think we are almost worse. The only difference is the LDS church hasn’t asked members to do some of the crazy things these other orgs have. That was until the pandemic. Mixing truth with lies is a powerful concoction. Like my family member said, “I would jump off a cliff if RMN asked me to.” :shock:
I do recall a survey conducted on the streets of SLC and about 40% of those who were asked if they would kill themselves if asked to do so by the prophet said "YES"
To be fair, anyone who answers that way is probably spiritually dead already.

Remember a few years back when we changed to 2 hour church? And we were instructed not to pray to start the second hour class? Nobody seemed to blink an eye at that. And yet the scriptures teach us that a wicked spirit tells a man not to pray. Now we're back to praying before 2nd hour again and it's like "oh yay thanks for the revelation, President Nelson!"

If you are constantly waiting to be told by the brethren how to have a relationship with Christ, how and when to pray, what to read and what to think, you are in effect already damning yourself. And that is the fruit of the brethren and the culture they created.

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JandD6572
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Posts: 292

Re: There is a sickness in the church

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 4:28 am
JandD6572 wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 2:52 am I have read the book of Mormon several times, and my conclusion there isn't much more in there that isn't offered in the bible.
Interesting. I have friends who hold tightly to the Bible. It is a beautiful book. I have found the clarity that is added through the BoM is quite astounding. I could add a very extensive laundry list of doctrines that are included, but I doubt that would move the needle for you. One really good book written by an LDS author is Tad R. Callister’s “A Case for the Book of Mormon.”

https://www.amazon.com/Case-Book-Mormon ... 153&sr=8-1

He presents in a very succinct format the truths that the BoM either clarifies or adds to the Bible. There are some very profound differences unique to the BoM. But, even with all that Elder Callister details, he still doesn’t recognize how the LDS church doesn’t live many of the principles and doctrines taught in the BoM. For example, 2 Ne. 28:31 is crystal clear in how we recognize truth, and how we are to trust no man but under certain circumstances. There are well over a dozen or more concepts in this book.
I'm not saying I totally disagree with the BOM, but for now, with everything that is happening, both in the world, the church and my personal life, I will be taking a break from the BoM as well. I struggle personally continuing using things like the BoM when the its the corner stone of a religion that doesn't even follow its own teachings. I mean I will be honest, when I was having my thoughts about leaving the church initially, the BoM was the only thing that kept me staying as long as I did. It seemed to be the one thing that I could rely on. But, I have a hard time with it when seemingly everything else around it with in the corporate circle was either falling apart, changing its teachings everything we turn around, or just out right claiming that one "MUST" follow the prophet, sustain, and all but worship him if one wants to fully accept Jesus Christ. I just can't anymore. The direction I am going at this time, is a direction I have felt compelled to go for many years. I thank you for your kind words with sharing with me your thoughts and other options.

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