What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 15309
Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
Contact:

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

TheDuke wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:14 am BTW I...
For all you know, you could be interacting w/ AI right now. :)

User avatar
TheDuke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5862
Location: Eastern Sodom Suburbs

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by TheDuke »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:18 am
TheDuke wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:14 am BTW I...
For all you know, you could be interacting w/ AI right now. :)
Not likely, you're responses, whether I agree with them or not at times, do have both some consistency and some "seemingly" non-consistency. And I'm not saying you aren't consistent, but your beliefs are far too deep to capture in any algorithm and show through in certain conditions that would seem to be hard to train on. AI is usually much more broad but shallow.

But you never, know. there was a thread last year about the entire creation being an AI, and only me being real! I guess god could make an AI smart enough to trick me.

User avatar
Chip
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7909
Location: California

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by Chip »

TheDuke wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:14 am
Chip wrote: February 1st, 2023, 10:58 am
It does understand church-think pretty well and how the church and its members are likely to behave in different situations.

For people like me, it's a useful tool to test hypotheses. I must gauge its veracity as it presents things that I wasn't thinking, before. I see it as an imagination expander. It comes up with things that were beyond the edge of my own thinking, but that I probably would have thought of, myself, eventually. It's like standing on a tall ladder, seeing a little further, with some understood constraints.

I don't conflate it, at all, with the Holy Spirit. It's just a machine.
Look what you said. "it understands">>>>>>>> WHAT does that mean. The algorithm understands? BS right there. Next a useful too to test a hypotheses, how can that be? It is garbage in and garbage out. You are trusting its answer as you say, but some how doing your own "veracity" check, how?

BTW I didn't mean to say you'd see it as the spirit. sorry, if that is what I led you to believe. I said it has no place discussing things of the spirit as it is gleefully and carefully leading people to hell without their knowledge. Like driving an auto driving car, until it kills you or your peer on the road or a biker. Or even hitting the brakes real hard to avoid a person that is a garbage bag floating in the road. In this case you (or the bot) put on the brake and killed the person behind you. But it is their fault as they rear ended you, because they never thought you (your bot) would suddenly and fully invoke your brakes. The bot worked quite well, every day, took you to and from work, until it didn't. THAT my friend is how AI works. It was ok on Tuesday but on Wednesday and guy with a black shirt walked out into the road. the AI learned about this in an image, relearned it, sent it to all the peer cars, and then the black inflated garbage bag falling of a truck and rolling down the road looked like that image. So, the relearned algorithm kicked in and killed someone. Perhaps by Friday it will relearn that lesson, but not likely as a person will quickly get involved to alter the algorithm before the court and lawsuit determine the automaker's (or yours) guilt as they have lots of money and no one understood the algorithm on Thursday anyway.

Well, I could have said that it "models" the church and its members, instead of it "understands" them. That would have been more accurate.

About the veracity of its output, everyone must judge for themselves.

User avatar
TheDuke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5862
Location: Eastern Sodom Suburbs

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by TheDuke »

Chip wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:49 am
About the veracity of its output, everyone must judge for themselves.
pray tell, how will you or anyone verify the output? Please enlighten me! I'm all ears. You ask question of a machine that is complicated to learn from it but will later validate, or verify or define a form of quality metric on it. How. I interested in your response. I mean I spent the last 4 years of my employment working on methods of and even authored the only (to my knowledge) international standard on how to "assure" or "validate" or "measure trust" of AI. Please enlighten me with your process.

BTW it can be done, but will take either a forensic analysis of the at-the-time state machine, requiring access to the software and fully captured inputs. Or outside analysis that will cost many, many times more than the original research (which would be worth it if you were to reproduce the machine for many uses and years to come). else the problem is termed "intractable"

User avatar
Chip
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7909
Location: California

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by Chip »

TheDuke wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:58 am
Chip wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:49 am
About the veracity of its output, everyone must judge for themselves.
pray tell, how will you or anyone verify the output? Please enlighten me! I'm all ears. You ask question of a machine that is complicated to learn from it but will later validate, or verify or define a form of quality metric on it. How. I interested in your response. I mean I spent the last 4 years of my employment working on methods of and even authored the only (to my knowledge) international standard on how to "assure" or "validate" or "measure trust" of AI. Please enlighten me with your process.

BTW it can be done, but will take either a forensic analysis of the at-the-time state machine, requiring access to the software and fully captured inputs. Or outside analysis that will cost many, many times more than the original research (which would be worth it if you were to reproduce the machine for many uses and years to come). else the problem is termed "intractable"

I don't anticipate needing to analyze it in the way you say. We're going to have to consider AI just like we consider Joe Biden, Russell M Nelson, and everything else.

We're never going to get into the minutia of what it did at any particular moment, either. That is overly pedantic and unrealistic. We're just going to have to deal with it at face value.

User avatar
TheDuke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5862
Location: Eastern Sodom Suburbs

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by TheDuke »

Chip wrote: February 1st, 2023, 12:17 pm
TheDuke wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:58 am
Chip wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:49 am
About the veracity of its output, everyone must judge for themselves.
pray tell, how will you or anyone verify the output? Please enlighten me! I'm all ears. You ask question of a machine that is complicated to learn from it but will later validate, or verify or define a form of quality metric on it. How. I interested in your response. I mean I spent the last 4 years of my employment working on methods of and even authored the only (to my knowledge) international standard on how to "assure" or "validate" or "measure trust" of AI. Please enlighten me with your process.

BTW it can be done, but will take either a forensic analysis of the at-the-time state machine, requiring access to the software and fully captured inputs. Or outside analysis that will cost many, many times more than the original research (which would be worth it if you were to reproduce the machine for many uses and years to come). else the problem is termed "intractable"

I don't anticipate needing to analyze it in the way you say. We're going to have to consider AI just like we consider Joe Biden, Russell M Nelson, and everything else.

We're never going to get into the minutia of what it did at any particular moment, either. That is overly pedantic and unrealistic. We're just going to have to deal with it at face value.
So your response is "you cannot" and "don't need to" understand or validate or verify the inputs or outputs of AI, because ............................. and that asking AI model about LDS behaviors is enlightening because....................... see you will keep at it until you get what you want. You will ignore it if it disagrees with you. Keep typing until it has your thoughts and validate your thoughts by your model. And you don't see the issue. Some people do have to put their hand on the stove to learn. That is ok, but getting in to and flying a plane to learn you cannot will result in a situation where you will likely never have to worry about making the same mistake twice.

AI is more insidious and is like the liberal media, fulfilling, but lies or at best half truths. It is attitudes like the one you display here, where you don't need to know how it works or why it works, you don't even need anyone else to know how or why, but you'll trust it... today with inane chatter, tomorrow with your car, next week with your home (electronics) and next year with your salvation......... AI is the answer to your wildest dreams have fun.

I don't care. But, please don't mix AI outputs with people chatting about LDS topics. Use it but do so in your own defined AI threads that real people can ignore if they like That is my request.

BTW the stove is hot, whether or not you choose to touch it.

User avatar
BeNotDeceived
Agent38
Posts: 8960
Location: Tralfamadore
Contact:

mantra?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

blitzinstripes wrote: January 31st, 2023, 4:55 pm
mtmom wrote: January 31st, 2023, 4:18 pm
tribrac wrote: January 30th, 2023, 9:02 pm The organization owns the temples, the churches, the welfare farms, seminary buildings, education campuses, and most of the artifacts and more importantly, the copy rights.

Where would you go? What would you do when you got there?
Go into the "wildness".
Waiting for true messengers. 😉

There’s a picture of one here.❗️

User avatar
Cruiserdude
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5359
Location: SEKS

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by Cruiserdude »

Chip wrote: February 1st, 2023, 8:14 am We have a friend who, at one point, told us that she was "kind of a big deal on Twitter". She had 2,000 followers.

When Elon Musk took over, the bots went away and she realized she actually had only 80 human followers.

In reviewing her Twitter interactions over the last five years, none of them had been with actual humans. All were bot interactions.

Twitter had her living in a house of mirrors using AI.
Hahahahah hahahhaha one of my favorite stories!
haha (1).gif
haha (1).gif (642.49 KiB) Viewed 361 times

User avatar
Chip
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7909
Location: California

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by Chip »

TheDuke wrote: February 1st, 2023, 3:14 pm
Chip wrote: February 1st, 2023, 12:17 pm
TheDuke wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:58 am
Chip wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:49 am
About the veracity of its output, everyone must judge for themselves.
pray tell, how will you or anyone verify the output? Please enlighten me! I'm all ears. You ask question of a machine that is complicated to learn from it but will later validate, or verify or define a form of quality metric on it. How. I interested in your response. I mean I spent the last 4 years of my employment working on methods of and even authored the only (to my knowledge) international standard on how to "assure" or "validate" or "measure trust" of AI. Please enlighten me with your process.

BTW it can be done, but will take either a forensic analysis of the at-the-time state machine, requiring access to the software and fully captured inputs. Or outside analysis that will cost many, many times more than the original research (which would be worth it if you were to reproduce the machine for many uses and years to come). else the problem is termed "intractable"

I don't anticipate needing to analyze it in the way you say. We're going to have to consider AI just like we consider Joe Biden, Russell M Nelson, and everything else.

We're never going to get into the minutia of what it did at any particular moment, either. That is overly pedantic and unrealistic. We're just going to have to deal with it at face value.
So your response is "you cannot" and "don't need to" understand or validate or verify the inputs or outputs of AI, because ............................. and that asking AI model about LDS behaviors is enlightening because....................... see you will keep at it until you get what you want. You will ignore it if it disagrees with you. Keep typing until it has your thoughts and validate your thoughts by your model. And you don't see the issue. Some people do have to put their hand on the stove to learn. That is ok, but getting in to and flying a plane to learn you cannot will result in a situation where you will likely never have to worry about making the same mistake twice.

AI is more insidious and is like the liberal media, fulfilling, but lies or at best half truths. It is attitudes like the one you display here, where you don't need to know how it works or why it works, you don't even need anyone else to know how or why, but you'll trust it... today with inane chatter, tomorrow with your car, next week with your home (electronics) and next year with your salvation......... AI is the answer to your wildest dreams have fun.

I don't care. But, please don't mix AI outputs with people chatting about LDS topics. Use it but do so in your own defined AI threads that real people can ignore if they like That is my request.

BTW the stove is hot, whether or not you choose to touch it.

We cannot validate the intricacies of how ChatGPT works. It was trained with 350 billion words over a one-year period and its neural net is realized on 70 high-end graphics cards. We do not have access to any of it. Hence, we can only speculate about it and then use it if we want to get a handle on it. We're in no position to validate it, beyond queries. So, why get all pedantic about it? It's here and so are we. We're going to live along side it. No choice. Whether we hate it or are intrigued by it, it's now in the world. You know all this.

You could make it say anything you want, true. You could also use it to push a little past a current situation by modeling with it. For anything likely to happen, there is a cone of probability. It's good for exploring in that way. It can also be a tool for imagination, but one must keep in mind that it's only synthesizing from its training data. It's just a tool to some, maybe a god to others. In any case, it exists!

User avatar
BigT
captain of 100
Posts: 737

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by BigT »

TheDuke wrote: February 1st, 2023, 10:56 am
BigT wrote: January 31st, 2023, 8:24 pm lol What do you really think, Duke?
I find much funny and joyful in life. But, I don't find mixing non-humans in inter-human communication funny. and it is dangerous as I mentioned. If you cannot see it, then it is like a child playing with fire and waiting to be burned.

People do know comprehend what "AI" is. There is lots of titles, ideas, uses, thoughts, misunderstandings but it isn't AI. And it isn't just some algorithm that has been honestly trained. It is a mix of data (assumed correct facts) and lots of "inferences" to create new facts (assumed correct) using straight and forms of "fuzzy" logic to derive the new facts.

BTW I even met the original expert on Fuzzy Logic, Lofti Zedah a few years ago. I did my graduate with regard to his initial work over 40 years ago. It is still applicable if you want to read it. It is a deep read however. I worked to build on it a defensive strategy for strategic bombers for a few years. and built the first "real time" inference engine in the industry (commercial or military) and it gave me much acclaim in my company and across the US DoD, in its day. It worked well. It couldn't be proven/assured but the USAF loved it and put it on B1 after years of testing.

So, I'm not AI adverse. What I'm saying is that it is and can be, and will be twisted inside to do things that are inexplicable due to the combinatorial logic, fuzzy or fractional, and you'll never see why. That is ok for some things, not for others and definitely not for things of the spirit of god. Good however, for the dark spirits.
Fascinating! Such a life of experience.

I saw your post this morning, then read (most of) this article:

https://igorchudov.substack.com/p/are-y ... ansparency

"Are You Ready for "Brain Transparency" and AI Reading your Mind?"

Coincidence?

User avatar
Silver Pie
seeker after Christ
Posts: 8989
Location: In the state that doesn't exist

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by Silver Pie »

tribrac wrote: January 30th, 2023, 9:02 pm The organization owns the temples, the churches, the welfare farms, seminary buildings, education campuses, and most of the artifacts and more importantly, the copy rights.

Where would you go? What would you do when you got there?
They don't own the Book of Mormon or other scriptures. You can get them from sources other than the LDS Church if you don't already own them.

I went to Christ. He has been more than sufficient.

User avatar
Silver Pie
seeker after Christ
Posts: 8989
Location: In the state that doesn't exist

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by Silver Pie »

Light Seeker wrote: January 30th, 2023, 9:51 pm
HVDC wrote: January 30th, 2023, 9:21 pm
tribrac wrote: January 30th, 2023, 9:02 pm The organization owns the temples, the churches, the welfare farms, seminary buildings, education campuses, and most of the artifacts and more importantly, the copy rights.

Where would you go? What would you do when you got there?
And we don't need any of it.

Render unto Nelson...

They are the servants.

We are the prize.

They need us.

Not the other way around.

Never forget that.

Sir H
Sage words .
The best words I've ever seen him write on here. (compliment, NOT a back-handed insult)

User avatar
Silver Pie
seeker after Christ
Posts: 8989
Location: In the state that doesn't exist

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by Silver Pie »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 31st, 2023, 5:15 am
tribrac wrote: January 30th, 2023, 9:02 pm The organization owns the temples, the churches, the welfare farms, seminary buildings, education campuses, and most of the artifacts and more importantly, the copy rights.

Where would you go? What would you do when you got there?
This isn’t our first rodeo. So much we can learn from the BoM:

8 I behold that ye are lowly in heart; and if so, blessed are ye.
9 Behold thy brother hath said, What shall we do?—for we are cast out of our synagogues, that we cannot worship our God.
10 Behold I say unto you, do ye suppose that ye cannot worship God save it be in your synagogues only?
11 And moreover, I would ask, do ye suppose that ye must not worship God only once in a week?

12 I say unto you, it is well that ye are cast out of your synagogues, that ye may be humble, and that ye may learn wisdom; for it is necessary that ye should learn wisdom; for it is because that ye are cast out, that ye are despised of your brethren because of your exceeding poverty, that ye are brought to a lowliness of heart; for ye are necessarily brought to be humble.

We can worship God be it a single soul, or a collective of families.
💥 💥 💥

TwochurchesOnly
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1224

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by TwochurchesOnly »

Pahoran wrote: January 30th, 2023, 8:27 pm I think many feel that things are starting to rise to a climax and that something dramatic may happen soon. What is your guess as to what the future holds? Whoever gets this right, get's the honorary "prophet" with a lowercase "p" title!

So, we all know that the number 1 priority of any organization is survival and growth. And, when an organization is feeling threatened, it is capable of doing some pretty ugly stuff (i.e. false flags, lies, slander, etc.) . Seems likely that the church is working up its narrative right now on how it will cast itself as the moral authority in the face of some members questioning its actions as of late. Or, maybe people are being too pessimistic and perhaps the way the church responds to all this will be totally upright and above the table, with love and kindness and understanding. I am open to all opinions.
They will ruin their lives - as example in today's post about missionary sent home ASAP -
This Corp of C of Lds is such an abomination

User avatar
Silver Pie
seeker after Christ
Posts: 8989
Location: In the state that doesn't exist

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by Silver Pie »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: January 31st, 2023, 6:11 am Will the Holy Ghost remain with the wicked?
The LDS Church claims a franchise on the Holy Ghost. The only organization on earth who owns it and controls it.

User avatar
Silver Pie
seeker after Christ
Posts: 8989
Location: In the state that doesn't exist

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by Silver Pie »

Niemand wrote: February 1st, 2023, 3:47 am We've already had one bot on here going by the name "Ontario". I sometimes wonder if "Sushi Chef" is one too.

I've certainly interacted with AIs on YouTube comments and elsewhere. They were very active during the last US election and also the Covid business. One thing they would do is start introducing comments about the US binary party system – Republicans and Democrats – even when it was irrelevant or the content was not American. They are common on dating apps (which I don't use) and Meetup dot com, because the illusion of activity keeps paid subscriptions coming in.
I'm not convinced that Ontario is a bot.

Sushi Chef is from/in Japan and I got the impression she's female, and posts using a translator as she isn't fluent in English.

User avatar
Silver Pie
seeker after Christ
Posts: 8989
Location: In the state that doesn't exist

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by Silver Pie »

Chip wrote: February 1st, 2023, 8:14 am In reviewing her Twitter interactions over the last five years, none of them had been with actual humans. All were bot interactions.
🤯

User avatar
Silver Pie
seeker after Christ
Posts: 8989
Location: In the state that doesn't exist

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by Silver Pie »

Pahoran wrote: February 1st, 2023, 9:31 am That brings up another question. Is it better to go through the shame of all that process or to leave before it happens? I guess it would be tempting to leave before all that but what would Jesus do?
I have friends whose stake pres wanted them ex'd for listening to Denver Snuffer. Their bishop had to do the dirty work, and he gave them the option to leave, instead. They chose to leave, thinking that the bishop would not be held as accountable before Christ at judgment day if he had not kicked them out, since they'd done nothing wrong. This was around 2014 or so.

User avatar
HereWeGo
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1220

Re: What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

Post by HereWeGo »

Silver Pie wrote: February 8th, 2023, 3:37 pm
I have friends whose stake pres wanted them ex'd for listening to Denver Snuffer. Their bishop had to do the dirty work, and he gave them the option to leave, instead. They chose to leave, thinking that the bishop would not be held as accountable before Christ at judgment day if he had not kicked them out, since they'd done nothing wrong. This was around 2014 or so.
That is thoughtful of your friends. Personally, I would prefer they be held accountable for their actions.

Post Reply