What will the church do to those members who are becoming less enthusiastic about the "follow the prophet" mantra?

[InfoWarrior82]

The organization owns the temples, the churches, the welfare farms, seminary buildings, education campuses, and most of the artifacts and more importantly, the copy rights.

Where would you go? What would you do when you got there?

Something to remember is that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not the LDS Church. While that is the official mantra and tradition, that is a false narrative and false tradition. The Gospel is separate and stands alone from the Church as does the Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ, and the Father. Pres Nelson has proven that he is not a prophet because of the COVID jab debacle. The same goes for the other alleged "prophets, seers, and revelators." Pres Nelson is only the president of the corporation that is the LDS Church. Since he has proven that he is not a prophet, he does not speak for Christ.

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Mat 18:20

That's where you go.

You are teaching the exact opposite of what the scriptures teach. The Gift of the Holy Ghost is given to baptised converts by the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood. - by the laying on of hands.

7 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
{Acts 8:17-18)

The Church is the legal administrator of the gospel and its ordinances. You can’t separate them.

You’re teaching another gospel - not the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Will the Holy Ghost remain with the wicked?

[Pahoran]

Could it be that very soon church members are told to do something in particular as a way to force people to show their allegiance?

Kind of like what happened with the push to get vaccinated and masked, but with some other new prophetic priority.

It seems that some new initiatives the church is encouraging could be interpreted to connect us more closely to Babylon, and movement to a beast system.

So, perhaps the next big push could be for church members to be good global citizens by accepting the new normal where people either go along with the beast system or they are shut out of society as bigots, old fashioned, unkind, racist, and dangerous to the rest of society.

I'm sure if people were chased out of the church optics would be better if it were done on a local level by pressure from family and local congregations. Ideally, local leaders wouldn't have to get involved because people not agreeing with the new normal would feel so unwelcome they would just leave on their own without being excommunicated.

Seems possible that a new worldwide crisis arrives, the crisis necessitates strict obedience to a new normal. Those who do not comply with the new normal are called out in the media as t$rrorist$ or some other bad name. Then the church has a real good reason to ramp up the follow the prophet mantra and does its part to pressure the members to comply.

Honestly, someone should write a fiction novel about how this might all happen at a local level giving insight into the interplay between pressure from the world, other members on up to leadership and how it all plays out. That would be interesting.

Of course many churches have gone through what we are experiencing, which appears to be a secular drifting away from the pure sometimes hard doctrine that is becoming less compatible with the world (good global citizens).

So, we could look to see how it happened with those churches. But, our church is different than most other churches because we do believe we are the only true church with a prophet at the head, so that changes things. It means that leadership has much more power than leadership in other churches. Also, it seems as though we are richer than most other churches and have much larger investment portfolio.

A major difference is that what brought on a lot of those changes in other churches were the culture wars, but the war we are facing right now is a culture war on steroids leading to the end of times.

Anyway, I could see it now, a book of fiction showing the story of a family struggling through the great sifting.

Another idea is to overlay the story with some stories from the past of fictional characters fleeing with Alma from king Noah and a dramatization of that on an individual level.

Anyone up for writing a prophetic but fictional novel like that?

[BeNotDeceived]

The organization owns the temples, the churches, the welfare farms, seminary buildings, education campuses, and most of the artifacts and more importantly, the copy rights.

Where would you go? What would you do when you got there?

To the OKC Memorial I will go

on the anniversary of taking me momentous photo there.

[mtmom]

The organization owns the temples, the churches, the welfare farms, seminary buildings, education campuses, and most of the artifacts and more importantly, the copy rights.

Where would you go? What would you do when you got there?

Go into the "wildness".

[TheDuke]

obviously the church will do nothing. we have gone from 8 to five wards in our stake, meaning many have gotten luke ware and nothing has happened to any of them.

And they haven't done anything to me. And I still love the gospel and accept the church leaders but surely am luke-warm at best about their leadership and pathways.

[BeNotDeceived]

The organization owns the temples, the churches, the welfare farms, seminary buildings, education campuses, and most of the artifacts and more importantly, the copy rights.

Where would you go? What would you do when you got there?

Go into the "wildness".

Where does the wilderness begin exactly.

[tribrac]

And do what?

[Niemand]

Where does the wilderness begin exactly.

Inside.

[blitzinstripes]

Well,, they've been kicking them out (or suggesting they resign) for a while. I suspect that will continue.

Right - but I am also thinking would they want a slow drip to occur or would they rather just do a big purge? You don't have to answer but just throwing it out there.

I can see them using a big purge to justify their 'great sifting ' of the wheat, and cement the TBM's even more strongly in their conviction.

The gay agenda would be a perfect distraction. They will claim it is a new revelation, and that only the most extra-est purest in heart will be strong enough to welcome the gay temple sealings with open arms. An exercise in true Christ like compassion!

Knowing darn well that it will be the straw the breaks the camel's back for all of us that have reached a tipping point. We will not be able to accept endorsing these abominable sins and we will 'purge' ourselves. But they will get what they want......a smaller but much more blindly obedient flock, totally oblivious to their wickedness.

[blitzinstripes]

The organization owns the temples, the churches, the welfare farms, seminary buildings, education campuses, and most of the artifacts and more importantly, the copy rights.

Where would you go? What would you do when you got there?

Go into the "wildness".

Waiting for true messengers.

[BigT]

Could it be that very soon church members are told to do something in particular as a way to force people to show their allegiance?

Kind of like what happened with the push to get vaccinated and masked, but with some other new prophetic priority.

It seems that some new initiatives the church is encouraging could be interpreted to connect us more closely to Babylon, and movement to a beast system.

So, perhaps the next big push could be for church members to be good global citizens by accepting the new normal where people either go along with the beast system or they are shut out of society as bigots, old fashioned, unkind, racist, and dangerous to the rest of society.

I'm sure if people were chased out of the church optics would be better if it were done on a local level by pressure from family and local congregations. Ideally, local leaders wouldn't have to get involved because people not agreeing with the new normal would feel so unwelcome they would just leave on their own without being excommunicated.

Seems possible that a new worldwide crisis arrives, the crisis necessitates strict obedience to a new normal. Those who do not comply with the new normal are called out in the media as t$rrorist$ or some other bad name. Then the church has a real good reason to ramp up the follow the prophet mantra and does its part to pressure the members to comply.

Honestly, someone should write a fiction novel about how this might all happen at a local level giving insight into the interplay between pressure from the world, other members on up to leadership and how it all plays out. That would be interesting.

Of course many churches have gone through what we are experiencing, which appears to be a secular drifting away from the pure sometimes hard doctrine that is becoming less compatible with the world (good global citizens).

So, we could look to see how it happened with those churches. But, our church is different than most other churches because we do believe we are the only true church with a prophet at the head, so that changes things. It means that leadership has much more power than leadership in other churches. Also, it seems as though we are richer than most other churches and have much larger investment portfolio.

A major difference is that what brought on a lot of those changes in other churches were the culture wars, but the war we are facing right now is a culture war on steroids leading to the end of times.

Anyway, I could see it now, a book of fiction showing the story of a family struggling through the great sifting.

Another idea is to overlay the story with some stories from the past of fictional characters fleeing with Alma from king Noah and a dramatization of that on an individual level.

Anyone up for writing a prophetic but fictional novel like that?

I find your reasoning compelling. Well done.

I have published 6 novels, but this would be a tremendous undertaking for me as they are genre novels; fairly easy to “make stuff up.” (Except the last one, a dystopian-type of futuristic story that took me 3 years to finish.) I’ll give it some thought.

[Reluctant Watchman]

The organization owns the temples, the churches, the welfare farms, seminary buildings, education campuses, and most of the artifacts and more importantly, the copy rights.

Where would you go? What would you do when you got there?

Go into the "wildness".

Waiting for true messengers.

"Wildness" messengers.

[Ciams]

Well,, they've been kicking them out (or suggesting they resign) for a while. I suspect that will continue.

Right - but I am also thinking would they want a slow drip to occur or would they rather just do a big purge? You don't have to answer but just throwing it out there.

I can see them using a big purge to justify their 'great sifting ' of the wheat, and cement the TBM's even more strongly in their conviction.

The gay agenda would be a perfect distraction. They will claim it is a new revelation, and that only the most extra-est purest in heart will be strong enough to welcome the gay temple sealings with open arms. An exercise in true Christ like compassion!

Knowing darn well that it will be the straw the breaks the camel's back for all of us that have reached a tipping point. We will not be able to accept endorsing these abominable sins and we will 'purge' ourselves. But they will get what they want......a smaller but much more blindly obedient flock, totally oblivious to their wickedness.

I think many of us wouldn't be "surprised" by some movement on the gay front, but that's not because they are predisposed to accepting gay marriage, only because so many changes have happened and the church has toned down any judgmental language on the subject.

The truth is, homosexuality is incompatible with nature, and obviously the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Where we will run into trouble is at some point many or most Christian faiths will become pro-gay. Yes, there are verses in the bible against homosexuality, but they are no more central to faith than many other cultural/social traditions of the bible which the world has also turned away from. Our theology on the other hand depends on man-wife-children.

So we have to hold the line, while other faiths will succumb to it. Once that happens, it gets very difficult to resist the culture forces, which will then (in the future) be both secular and religious, and we will certainly see governmental persecution like the old days against the church. I see the modulating tone of the brethren on the homosexual issue as one trying to remove any accusations of bad faith bigotry. The government will not accept animus as a justification for religious discrimination.

So I don't think they'd ever start sealing gay couples. The genealogy aspect of these families is troubling though and obviously it's a landmine the church has to deal with now with family tree. If the day ever did come when homosexuality was declared to be the Lords will for whomever chooses it, I can't imagine I'd still be involved. The irony is our doctrines actually allow for the existence of homosexuality, but the individuals have no place promoting it in the church. What I mean by that is the three degrees of glory do not place a homosexual person in outer darkness, but they will inherit immorality in some kingdom better than this one. But so will many others breaking the commandments and living a life contrary to God's life.

The point of the church is to prepare us to receive all the Father hath. If you want a happy immortality that is less than your potential... go and sin some more? What a tragic thought -- as there is very real suffering that is brought into this world when people choose not to have children and follow their desires. Our church is struggling with these camps both within and without.

To the subject of follow the prophet fatigue... well, I think President Nelson in many ways could be burning through the social or religious capital the church built up among many of the faithful families that have stuck with the church for multiple generations. I don't fault him for it, and I'm not sure I have a better idea of what could be done. I'm less sad about masks and vaccines than I am about home teaching, high priests, and boy scouts --- there absolutely was wisdom in the actions that were made on all fronts. But real costs as well. The scouts were a disaster in some respects. Home teaching was always a 50% at best thing.

But they were programs that had institutional history and support, and once you sever that cord, you are tied to nothing. Even on something as simple as scouts, I have to wonder if the church would have been better off just following the pattern they do in Europe (in the Catholic church no less) of having boys and girls be scouts together. My kids were in a cogender scout group for a time in Europe. Worked fine. Our girls are as needing of activities in nature as much as the boys. And now, very little is happening.

So, while I can sit on the sidelines and see what I presume to be leadership mistakes from an organizational perspective, I don't think it lessens my resolve to look to the Lord's prophet. Some of you guys who are so quick to reject the church over various slights are standing on the shoulders of saints who endured much worse with Joseph Smith. You wouldn't have lasted a week then. Some of you might have even carried a bucket of tar based on how aggressive your accusations are.

[Chip]

Could it be that very soon church members are told to do something in particular as a way to force people to show their allegiance?

Kind of like what happened with the push to get vaccinated and masked, but with some other new prophetic priority.

It seems that some new initiatives the church is encouraging could be interpreted to connect us more closely to Babylon, and movement to a beast system.

So, perhaps the next big push could be for church members to be good global citizens by accepting the new normal where people either go along with the beast system or they are shut out of society as bigots, old fashioned, unkind, racist, and dangerous to the rest of society.

I'm sure if people were chased out of the church optics would be better if it were done on a local level by pressure from family and local congregations. Ideally, local leaders wouldn't have to get involved because people not agreeing with the new normal would feel so unwelcome they would just leave on their own without being excommunicated.

Seems possible that a new worldwide crisis arrives, the crisis necessitates strict obedience to a new normal. Those who do not comply with the new normal are called out in the media as t$rrorist$ or some other bad name. Then the church has a real good reason to ramp up the follow the prophet mantra and does its part to pressure the members to comply.

Honestly, someone should write a fiction novel about how this might all happen at a local level giving insight into the interplay between pressure from the world, other members on up to leadership and how it all plays out. That would be interesting.

Of course many churches have gone through what we are experiencing, which appears to be a secular drifting away from the pure sometimes hard doctrine that is becoming less compatible with the world (good global citizens).

So, we could look to see how it happened with those churches. But, our church is different than most other churches because we do believe we are the only true church with a prophet at the head, so that changes things. It means that leadership has much more power than leadership in other churches. Also, it seems as though we are richer than most other churches and have much larger investment portfolio.

A major difference is that what brought on a lot of those changes in other churches were the culture wars, but the war we are facing right now is a culture war on steroids leading to the end of times.

Anyway, I could see it now, a book of fiction showing the story of a family struggling through the great sifting.

Another idea is to overlay the story with some stories from the past of fictional characters fleeing with Alma from king Noah and a dramatization of that on an individual level.

Anyone up for writing a prophetic but fictional novel like that?

I find your reasoning compelling. Well done.

I have published 6 novels, but this would be a tremendous undertaking for me as they are genre novels; fairly easy to “make stuff up.” (Except the last one, a dystopian-type of futuristic story that took me 3 years to finish.) I’ll give it some thought.

BigT, here are some ideas from ChatGPT:


Me:

In the future, LDS leadership imposes a requirement upon members to cement their allegiance to the church. Come up with some fictional interesting ideas.


ChatGPT:

"The Covenant Ceremony": A rite of passage for members to publicly declare their devotion to the church and its teachings. This ceremony would involve the member standing before a bishop and reciting a pledge of faithfulness, followed by the bishop sealing the covenant with a special emblem or token.

"The Loyalty Oath": A written declaration of commitment to the church, signed by each member and kept on file at the local ward or stake. This oath would be reviewed and updated regularly to ensure continued obedience to the faith.

"The Loyalty Test": A series of questions and challenges designed to test the member's commitment to the church and its teachings. This test could be administered annually, with members who fail being required to attend additional classes or counseling sessions to strengthen their commitment.

"The Sacred Mark": A visible emblem or tattoo worn by members to demonstrate their loyalty to the church. This mark would be placed in a visible location, such as the wrist or forehead, and would be considered a symbol of spiritual purity and devotion.

"The Sacred Oath": A secret oath sworn by members, recited only in the presence of church leaders. This oath would involve members promising to keep the teachings of the church sacred and to remain loyal to its teachings, even in the face of persecution or hardship.

[cyclOps]

Well,, they've been kicking them out (or suggesting they resign) for a while. I suspect that will continue.

Right - but I am also thinking would they want a slow drip to occur or would they rather just do a big purge? You don't have to answer but just throwing it out there.

I can see them using a big purge to justify their 'great sifting ' of the wheat, and cement the TBM's even more strongly in their conviction.

The gay agenda would be a perfect distraction. They will claim it is a new revelation, and that only the most extra-est purest in heart will be strong enough to welcome the gay temple sealings with open arms. An exercise in true Christ like compassion!

Knowing darn well that it will be the straw the breaks the camel's back for all of us that have reached a tipping point. We will not be able to accept endorsing these abominable sins and we will 'purge' ourselves. But they will get what they want......a smaller but much more blindly obedient flock, totally oblivious to their wickedness.

Won’t happen.

[Chip]

BigT, some more ideas:


To ChatGPT:

Come up with some ideas that would involve members regarding the leadership as God's executors.


ChatGPT response:

"The Divine Connection": A spiritual ceremony in which members receive a blessing or manifestation of the Holy Ghost, confirming that the leaders of the church are divinely appointed and authorized to guide and direct the members.

"The Divine Endorsement": A public declaration by church leaders of the members' commitment to follow the will of God as expressed through the church. This endorsement would be read in sacrament meeting and would be considered a sacred and binding agreement.

"The Divine Commission": A special call or assignment given to members to perform a particular task or service in accordance with the will of God, as expressed through the leadership of the church. This commission would be considered a sacred obligation and would require the member to give their full devotion to the task.

"The Divine Witness": A spiritual manifestation or confirmation given to members to assure them that the leadership of the church is guided by the Holy Ghost and that their teachings are in accordance with the will of God.

"The Divine Covenant": A sacred agreement between members and church leaders, binding the members to follow the will of God as expressed through the leadership of the church. This covenant would be considered a binding obligation and would require the member to give their full devotion to the teachings and guidance of the church.

[Christianlee]

Even the Mormons I know who skipped the jabs are still loyal to the Church.

[BeNotDeceived]

Where does the wilderness begin exactly.

Inside.

Reminds me of the time I enjoyed pushing in the face of my sisters favorite doll.

You’re a mean one Mr. Grinch.

[TwochurchesOnly]

Could it be that very soon church members are told to do something in particular as a way to force people to show their allegiance?

Kind of like what happened with the push to get vaccinated and masked, but with some other new prophetic priority.

It seems that some new initiatives the church is encouraging could be interpreted to connect us more closely to Babylon, and movement to a beast system.

So, perhaps the next big push could be for church members to be good global citizens by accepting the new normal where people either go along with the beast system or they are shut out of society as bigots, old fashioned, unkind, racist, and dangerous to the rest of society.

I'm sure if people were chased out of the church optics would be better if it were done on a local level by pressure from family and local congregations. Ideally, local leaders wouldn't have to get involved because people not agreeing with the new normal would feel so unwelcome they would just leave on their own without being excommunicated.

Seems possible that a new worldwide crisis arrives, the crisis necessitates strict obedience to a new normal. Those who do not comply with the new normal are called out in the media as t$rrorist$ or some other bad name. Then the church has a real good reason to ramp up the follow the prophet mantra and does its part to pressure the members to comply.

Honestly, someone should write a fiction novel about how this might all happen at a local level giving insight into the interplay between pressure from the world, other members on up to leadership and how it all plays out. That would be interesting.

Of course many churches have gone through what we are experiencing, which appears to be a secular drifting away from the pure sometimes hard doctrine that is becoming less compatible with the world (good global citizens).

So, we could look to see how it happened with those churches. But, our church is different than most other churches because we do believe we are the only true church with a prophet at the head, so that changes things. It means that leadership has much more power than leadership in other churches. Also, it seems as though we are richer than most other churches and have much larger investment portfolio.

A major difference is that what brought on a lot of those changes in other churches were the culture wars, but the war we are facing right now is a culture war on steroids leading to the end of times.

Anyway, I could see it now, a book of fiction showing the story of a family struggling through the great sifting.

Another idea is to overlay the story with some stories from the past of fictional characters fleeing with Alma from king Noah and a dramatization of that on an individual level.

Anyone up for writing a prophetic but fictional novel like that?

I find your reasoning compelling. Well done.

I have published 6 novels, but this would be a tremendous undertaking for me as they are genre novels; fairly easy to “make stuff up.” (Except the last one, a dystopian-type of futuristic story that took me 3 years to finish.) I’ll give it some thought.

BigT, here are some ideas from ChatGPT:


Me:

In the future, LDS leadership imposes a requirement upon members to cement their allegiance to the church. Come up with some fictional interesting ideas.


ChatGPT:

"The Covenant Ceremony": A rite of passage for members to publicly declare their devotion to the church and its teachings. This ceremony would involve the member standing before a bishop and reciting a pledge of faithfulness, followed by the bishop sealing the covenant with a special emblem or token.

"The Loyalty Oath": A written declaration of commitment to the church, signed by each member and kept on file at the local ward or stake. This oath would be reviewed and updated regularly to ensure continued obedience to the faith.

"The Loyalty Test": A series of questions and challenges designed to test the member's commitment to the church and its teachings. This test could be administered annually, with members who fail being required to attend additional classes or counseling sessions to strengthen their commitment.

"The Sacred Mark": A visible emblem or tattoo worn by members to demonstrate their loyalty to the church. This mark would be placed in a visible location, such as the wrist or forehead, and would be considered a symbol of spiritual purity and devotion.

"The Sacred Oath": A secret oath sworn by members, recited only in the presence of church leaders. This oath would involve members promising to keep the teachings of the church sacred and to remain loyal to its teachings, even in the face of persecution or hardship.

Sounds kinda familiar!

[Pahoran]

Well,, they've been kicking them out (or suggesting they resign) for a while. I suspect that will continue.

Right - but I am also thinking would they want a slow drip to occur or would they rather just do a big purge? You don't have to answer but just throwing it out there.

I can see them using a big purge to justify their 'great sifting ' of the wheat, and cement the TBM's even more strongly in their conviction.

The gay agenda would be a perfect distraction. They will claim it is a new revelation, and that only the most extra-est purest in heart will be strong enough to welcome the gay temple sealings with open arms. An exercise in true Christ like compassion!

Knowing darn well that it will be the straw the breaks the camel's back for all of us that have reached a tipping point. We will not be able to accept endorsing these abominable sins and we will 'purge' ourselves. But they will get what they want......a smaller but much more blindly obedient flock, totally oblivious to their wickedness.

I can imagine how tough it would be in that situation. It would be the perfect narrative. The Sunday following the change there would be a bunch of people missing from local congregations. Instead of feeling depressed because of the lower membership, people would have good feeling. Thinking to themselves, well, it's tough to lose so many people, but at least we know where they stand, since they are not here they are obviously bigots anyway.

[Pahoran]

Could it be that very soon church members are told to do something in particular as a way to force people to show their allegiance?

Kind of like what happened with the push to get vaccinated and masked, but with some other new prophetic priority.

It seems that some new initiatives the church is encouraging could be interpreted to connect us more closely to Babylon, and movement to a beast system.

So, perhaps the next big push could be for church members to be good global citizens by accepting the new normal where people either go along with the beast system or they are shut out of society as bigots, old fashioned, unkind, racist, and dangerous to the rest of society.

I'm sure if people were chased out of the church optics would be better if it were done on a local level by pressure from family and local congregations. Ideally, local leaders wouldn't have to get involved because people not agreeing with the new normal would feel so unwelcome they would just leave on their own without being excommunicated.

Seems possible that a new worldwide crisis arrives, the crisis necessitates strict obedience to a new normal. Those who do not comply with the new normal are called out in the media as t$rrorist$ or some other bad name. Then the church has a real good reason to ramp up the follow the prophet mantra and does its part to pressure the members to comply.

Honestly, someone should write a fiction novel about how this might all happen at a local level giving insight into the interplay between pressure from the world, other members on up to leadership and how it all plays out. That would be interesting.

Of course many churches have gone through what we are experiencing, which appears to be a secular drifting away from the pure sometimes hard doctrine that is becoming less compatible with the world (good global citizens).

So, we could look to see how it happened with those churches. But, our church is different than most other churches because we do believe we are the only true church with a prophet at the head, so that changes things. It means that leadership has much more power than leadership in other churches. Also, it seems as though we are richer than most other churches and have much larger investment portfolio.

A major difference is that what brought on a lot of those changes in other churches were the culture wars, but the war we are facing right now is a culture war on steroids leading to the end of times.

Anyway, I could see it now, a book of fiction showing the story of a family struggling through the great sifting.

Another idea is to overlay the story with some stories from the past of fictional characters fleeing with Alma from king Noah and a dramatization of that on an individual level.

Anyone up for writing a prophetic but fictional novel like that?

I find your reasoning compelling. Well done.

I have published 6 novels, but this would be a tremendous undertaking for me as they are genre novels; fairly easy to “make stuff up.” (Except the last one, a dystopian-type of futuristic story that took me 3 years to finish.) I’ll give it some thought.

Crossing my fingers. What was your last book called?

[BigT]

BigT, some more ideas:


To ChatGPT:

Come up with some ideas that would involve members regarding the leadership as God's executors.


ChatGPT response:

"The Divine Connection": A spiritual ceremony in which members receive a blessing or manifestation of the Holy Ghost, confirming that the leaders of the church are divinely appointed and authorized to guide and direct the members.

"The Divine Endorsement": A public declaration by church leaders of the members' commitment to follow the will of God as expressed through the church. This endorsement would be read in sacrament meeting and would be considered a sacred and binding agreement.

"The Divine Commission": A special call or assignment given to members to perform a particular task or service in accordance with the will of God, as expressed through the leadership of the church. This commission would be considered a sacred obligation and would require the member to give their full devotion to the task.

"The Divine Witness": A spiritual manifestation or confirmation given to members to assure them that the leadership of the church is guided by the Holy Ghost and that their teachings are in accordance with the will of God.

"The Divine Covenant": A sacred agreement between members and church leaders, binding the members to follow the will of God as expressed through the leadership of the church. This covenant would be considered a binding obligation and would require the member to give their full devotion to the teachings and guidance of the church.

I copied your posts, with Pahoran’s, into a note file to reflect on. I must confess I’m not as big a fan as you are for AI stuff. But, ideas are ideas.

[BigT]

Could it be that very soon church members are told to do something in particular as a way to force people to show their allegiance?

Kind of like what happened with the push to get vaccinated and masked, but with some other new prophetic priority.

It seems that some new initiatives the church is encouraging could be interpreted to connect us more closely to Babylon, and movement to a beast system.

So, perhaps the next big push could be for church members to be good global citizens by accepting the new normal where people either go along with the beast system or they are shut out of society as bigots, old fashioned, unkind, racist, and dangerous to the rest of society.

I'm sure if people were chased out of the church optics would be better if it were done on a local level by pressure from family and local congregations. Ideally, local leaders wouldn't have to get involved because people not agreeing with the new normal would feel so unwelcome they would just leave on their own without being excommunicated.

Seems possible that a new worldwide crisis arrives, the crisis necessitates strict obedience to a new normal. Those who do not comply with the new normal are called out in the media as t$rrorist$ or some other bad name. Then the church has a real good reason to ramp up the follow the prophet mantra and does its part to pressure the members to comply.

Honestly, someone should write a fiction novel about how this might all happen at a local level giving insight into the interplay between pressure from the world, other members on up to leadership and how it all plays out. That would be interesting.

Of course many churches have gone through what we are experiencing, which appears to be a secular drifting away from the pure sometimes hard doctrine that is becoming less compatible with the world (good global citizens).

So, we could look to see how it happened with those churches. But, our church is different than most other churches because we do believe we are the only true church with a prophet at the head, so that changes things. It means that leadership has much more power than leadership in other churches. Also, it seems as though we are richer than most other churches and have much larger investment portfolio.

A major difference is that what brought on a lot of those changes in other churches were the culture wars, but the war we are facing right now is a culture war on steroids leading to the end of times.

Anyway, I could see it now, a book of fiction showing the story of a family struggling through the great sifting.

Another idea is to overlay the story with some stories from the past of fictional characters fleeing with Alma from king Noah and a dramatization of that on an individual level.

Anyone up for writing a prophetic but fictional novel like that?

I find your reasoning compelling. Well done.

I have published 6 novels, but this would be a tremendous undertaking for me as they are genre novels; fairly easy to “make stuff up.” (Except the last one, a dystopian-type of futuristic story that took me 3 years to finish.) I’ll give it some thought.

Crossing my fingers. What was your last book called?

Orython Book 1: Room 18
3 books are planned, but… I’ve lost some interest. It was outside my wheelhouse after one horror novel and 4 thrillers.

[Chip]

BigT, some more ideas:


To ChatGPT:

Come up with some ideas that would involve members regarding the leadership as God's executors.


ChatGPT response:

"The Divine Connection": A spiritual ceremony in which members receive a blessing or manifestation of the Holy Ghost, confirming that the leaders of the church are divinely appointed and authorized to guide and direct the members.

"The Divine Endorsement": A public declaration by church leaders of the members' commitment to follow the will of God as expressed through the church. This endorsement would be read in sacrament meeting and would be considered a sacred and binding agreement.

"The Divine Commission": A special call or assignment given to members to perform a particular task or service in accordance with the will of God, as expressed through the leadership of the church. This commission would be considered a sacred obligation and would require the member to give their full devotion to the task.

"The Divine Witness": A spiritual manifestation or confirmation given to members to assure them that the leadership of the church is guided by the Holy Ghost and that their teachings are in accordance with the will of God.

"The Divine Covenant": A sacred agreement between members and church leaders, binding the members to follow the will of God as expressed through the leadership of the church. This covenant would be considered a binding obligation and would require the member to give their full devotion to the teachings and guidance of the church.

I copied your posts, with Pahoran’s, into a note file to reflect on. I must confess I’m not as big a fan as you are for AI stuff. But, ideas are ideas.

Some more AI ideas.....


Input:

In a fictional future scenario, Mormon leadership moves to unite with Babylon and encourages its members to go along with the beast system. Create some scenarios about this.


ChatGPT:

In the year 2070, the Mormon church has officially united with the world's leading superpower, Babylon. The leadership encourages its members to become active participants in the beast system, stating that this will ensure their salvation in the afterlife.

As a result of this alliance, Mormon families are now required to implant microchips in their children that track their every move and monitor their compliance with Babylonian laws.

The once peaceful and independent Mormon communities have become heavily militarized, with members serving as soldiers in the Babylonian army. They are tasked with maintaining order and suppressing dissent among the population.

Mormon leaders have rewritten the teachings of their faith to align with Babylonian beliefs and values. Members are taught to worship the beast system as a means of pleasing God.

Those who refuse to comply with the new order are deemed heretics and subjected to severe punishment, including imprisonment and execution. This has resulted in a mass migration of Mormons to other countries, where they can live in accordance with their original beliefs.

Despite the changes, some devout members still cling to their traditional beliefs and continue to practice their faith in secret. They gather in secret gatherings to pray and sing hymns, risking everything to keep the spirit of their faith alive.

As the years pass, the influence of the Mormon church on society continues to diminish, as it becomes just another cog in the machine of the Babylonian government. The once proud and independent faith is now just a distant memory, remembered only by a few aging members who refuse to forget their heritage.

[TheDuke]

BigT, here are some ideas from ChatGPT:

Am I MISSING SOMETHING? What is the fetish with some to take some liberally trained, unqualified, inexplicable, software tool and ask it questions, then post them in real thread on the forum?

I would ask this practice be stopped. It is hard enough to find truth and valuable inputs when the author is known but to some how talk to a computer program is worthless and improper. I'm ok with a thread or OP that is specifically set up to talk about the chatbot, but I am NOT OK with people starting to just interact with some random and ever changing software tool and put it's (as if it is a thing that can create thoughts) into a regular thread

I would ask this be the case from now on, or create a place for them chatbots to hang out together but not in the "general discussions" section. Please, lets let people talk to people and eliminate ALL BOTS as we've discussed elsewhere with TROLLS. It is the same thing. Thanks in advance.