Elder Hamilton at BYU - replace "the church" with the name of the Savior

[oneClimbs]

From the recap:

Elder Hamilton encouraged the audience to substitute the words “the Church” for the word “Savior” in those sentences because it puts a different perspective on things when one says they disagree with the Savior.

https://universe.byu.edu/2023/01/24/eld ... ed-church/

The quote:

“Could I suggest an alternative approach?” he asked. “Substitute the word ‘Savior’ or ‘Lord’ or ‘Jesus Christ’ in place of ‘the Church.’ ... For me, personally, that seems to put a very different perspective on things.”

And a longer recap of the Ted Talk style "devotional" (because college kids will pay more attention to that kind of thing)

https://www.thechurchnews.com/living-fa ... the-church

In the name of The Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, amen.

Yeah, I think this is a bad idea on his part. The church used to teach that plural marriage was essential for exaltation and that black people were the cursed seed of Cain, which means the Lord used to teach those things. Now, polygamy is simply a practice and the priesthood restriction was wrong so was the Lord wrong or does he change his doctrine?

The church is not the Lord. The church hierarchy is full of fallen mortals and his idea here is a stupid thing to suggest. Now when an authorized representative of the Lord is speaking with his authority, it is as if the Lord himself were speaking. "Whether by my mouth or the mouth of my servants, it is the same." but just because you hold an office in the church, it doesn't automatically mean that you are speaking in God's name and by his authority 100% of the time.

D&C 107 demonstrates that the quorum of the 12 can make decisions in "unrighteousness" and that the president of the church can "sin" and be dealt with as any other member. So no, the church is NOT the Savior and the two should never be equated.

[Luke]

Everyone gets cursed. The Gentiles have curses placed on them. But not all the curses are necessarily the same.

Yes, but all of those gentile curses come through unrighteousness and not heeding the word of the Lord. To place a curse upon a people as the LDS church did was wrong.

God was the one who placed a curse on Cain’s posterity, as Cain murdered Abel. No man placed the curse.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Everyone gets cursed. The Gentiles have curses placed on them. But not all the curses are necessarily the same.

Yes, but all of those gentile curses come through unrighteousness and not heeding the word of the Lord. To place a curse upon a people as the LDS church did was wrong.

God was the one who placed a curse on Cain’s posterity, as Cain murdered Abel. No man placed the curse.

Yeah, that's why you need to study the land of Canaan more in-depth. Early church leaders made the same mistakes.

[blitzinstripes]

Everyone gets cursed. The Gentiles have curses placed on them. But not all the curses are necessarily the same.

Yes, but all of those gentile curses come through unrighteousness and not heeding the word of the Lord. To place a curse upon a people as the LDS church did was wrong.

Screenshot_20230130-152633.png (153.71 KiB) Viewed 503 times

Sounds like Jesus wasn't referencing any "curses". It's reasonable to expect that such things were fulfilled in the atonement, and that His gospel was to be preached to every nation of the Earth. No mention of curses from our Lord and Savior after 33 A.D.

[Mamabear]

3EAAC79F-A4DA-4E39-937D-7B8A1B72ADF6.jpeg (178.77 KiB) Viewed 493 times

[Reluctant Watchman]

The "savior" owns and operates the wealthiest religion in the world.

[Mamabear]

The "savior" is the wealthiest religion in the world.

I’d like to bear my testimony that I know the “savior” is not true.

[blitzinstripes]

The "Savior" has a net worth of over a trillion dollars, his own investment firm and a legal team.

[Mamabear]

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[Luke]

Everyone gets cursed. The Gentiles have curses placed on them. But not all the curses are necessarily the same.

Yes, but all of those gentile curses come through unrighteousness and not heeding the word of the Lord. To place a curse upon a people as the LDS church did was wrong.

Screenshot_20230130-152633.png

Sounds like Jesus wasn't referencing any "curses". It's reasonable to expect that such things were fulfilled in the atonement, and that His gospel was to be preached to every nation of the Earth. No mention of curses from our Lord and Savior after 33 A.D.

Preaching the Gospel to every creature is clearly not the same thing as giving the Priesthood to every creature.

[blitzinstripes]

Polish_20230130_172642279.jpg (369.71 KiB) Viewed 378 times

[blitzinstripes]

Everyone gets cursed. The Gentiles have curses placed on them. But not all the curses are necessarily the same.

Yes, but all of those gentile curses come through unrighteousness and not heeding the word of the Lord. To place a curse upon a people as the LDS church did was wrong.

Screenshot_20230130-152633.png

Sounds like Jesus wasn't referencing any "curses". It's reasonable to expect that such things were fulfilled in the atonement, and that His gospel was to be preached to every nation of the Earth. No mention of curses from our Lord and Savior after 33 A.D.

Preaching the Gospel to every creature is clearly not the same thing as giving the Priesthood to every creature.

Well, since you mentioned it, He didn't specify that, either. Did He? Where are you basing your claim?

[blitzinstripes]

It might have been important (or not) that if the Lord planned on withholding Priesthood authority from blacks, that MAYBE He would have mentioned that somewhere either to his disciples in Jerusalem, or the Nephites? Not even to Joseph? Just your hero Brigham the racist?

[Luke]

Yes, but all of those gentile curses come through unrighteousness and not heeding the word of the Lord. To place a curse upon a people as the LDS church did was wrong.

Screenshot_20230130-152633.png

Sounds like Jesus wasn't referencing any "curses". It's reasonable to expect that such things were fulfilled in the atonement, and that His gospel was to be preached to every nation of the Earth. No mention of curses from our Lord and Savior after 33 A.D.

Preaching the Gospel to every creature is clearly not the same thing as giving the Priesthood to every creature.

Well, since you mentioned it, He didn't specify that, either. Did He? Where are you basing your claim?

Now you’re trying to flip the argument. You’re the one making a claim, I’m merely pointing out that you’re saying one thing is another when it clearly isn’t.

The blacks are clearly barred from the Priesthood, see Abraham 1.

[blitzinstripes]

Screenshot_20230130-152633.png

Sounds like Jesus wasn't referencing any "curses". It's reasonable to expect that such things were fulfilled in the atonement, and that His gospel was to be preached to every nation of the Earth. No mention of curses from our Lord and Savior after 33 A.D.

Preaching the Gospel to every creature is clearly not the same thing as giving the Priesthood to every creature.

Well, since you mentioned it, He didn't specify that, either. Did He? Where are you basing your claim?

Now you’re trying to flip the argument. You’re the one making a claim, I’m merely pointing out that you’re saying one thing is another when it clearly isn’t.

The blacks are clearly barred from the Priesthood, see Abraham 1.

Reading comprehension is a thing, Luke. We are not talking about old testament laws. We are talking about after the Atonement of Christ. The old testament is fulfilled. Try to keep up.

[Luke]

Preaching the Gospel to every creature is clearly not the same thing as giving the Priesthood to every creature.

Well, since you mentioned it, He didn't specify that, either. Did He? Where are you basing your claim?

Now you’re trying to flip the argument. You’re the one making a claim, I’m merely pointing out that you’re saying one thing is another when it clearly isn’t.

The blacks are clearly barred from the Priesthood, see Abraham 1.

Reading comprehension is a thing, Luke. We are not talking about old testament laws. We are talking about after the Atonement of Christ. The old testament is fulfilled. Try to keep up.

The curse of Cain predates the law of Moses, just like the doctrine of Christ predates the law of Moses. Peruse the Book of Moses and you’ll find the same Gospel being taught and practised there as in the Book of Mormon and New Testament.

[blitzinstripes]

Along with blood sacrifice.....It is evident that Christ's NEW covenant meant that the OLD was done away. And since JS also ordained black men to the Priesthood, you must concur that the "ban" did not exist in 1830. The only explanation is that it was fulfilled in Christ in AD 33. Only to be reintroduced under BY. Why? Did Cain rise up and slay his brother again after JS died?

[Mamabear]

Polish_20230130_172642279.jpg

Are they gonna change it to The savior of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

[blitzinstripes]

Well, since you mentioned it, He didn't specify that, either. Did He? Where are you basing your claim?

Now you’re trying to flip the argument. You’re the one making a claim, I’m merely pointing out that you’re saying one thing is another when it clearly isn’t.

The blacks are clearly barred from the Priesthood, see Abraham 1.

Reading comprehension is a thing, Luke. We are not talking about old testament laws. We are talking about after the Atonement of Christ. The old testament is fulfilled. Try to keep up.

The curse of Cain predates the law of Moses, just like the doctrine of Christ predates the law of Moses. Peruse the Book of Moses and you’ll find the same Gospel being taught and practised there as in the Book of Mormon and New Testament.

Matthew, apostle of the Lord preached in Africa and also ordained men to the priesthood there. But only the blue eyed, blonde haired white people that Brigham would approve of, right?

After the Holy Apostle Matthew brought the Gospel of Christ to Syria, Media, Persia and Parthia, he went to Africa. Here he finished his evangelization for the Lord in Ethiopia, where he was martyred. Initially, St. Matthew converted some of the pagan idol-worshipers to faith in Christ and founded Christ’s Holy Church in Ethiopia, building a temple in the city of Mirmena, and establishing there as bishop his assistant, Platon.

[Luke]

Along with blood sacrifice.....It is evident that Christ's NEW covenant meant that the OLD was done away. And since JS also ordained black men to the Priesthood, you must concur that the "ban" did not exist in 1830. The only explanation is that it was fulfilled in Christ in AD 33. Only to be reintroduced under BY. Why? Did Cain rise up and slay his brother again after JS died?

Joseph went back on the ordination of black men and said they had no right to the Priesthood.

Also JS said that blood sacrifice would be restored, it predated the law of Moses.

[Luke]

Now you’re trying to flip the argument. You’re the one making a claim, I’m merely pointing out that you’re saying one thing is another when it clearly isn’t.

The blacks are clearly barred from the Priesthood, see Abraham 1.

Reading comprehension is a thing, Luke. We are not talking about old testament laws. We are talking about after the Atonement of Christ. The old testament is fulfilled. Try to keep up.

The curse of Cain predates the law of Moses, just like the doctrine of Christ predates the law of Moses. Peruse the Book of Moses and you’ll find the same Gospel being taught and practised there as in the Book of Mormon and New Testament.

Matthew, apostle of the Lord preached in Africa and also ordained men to the priesthood there. But only the blue eyed, blonde haired white people that Brigham would approve of, right?

After the Holy Apostle Matthew brought the Gospel of Christ to Syria, Media, Persia and Parthia, he went to Africa. Here he finished his evangelization for the Lord in Ethiopia, where he was martyred. Initially, St. Matthew converted some of the pagan idol-worshipers to faith in Christ and founded Christ’s Holy Church in Ethiopia, building a temple in the city of Mirmena, and establishing there as bishop his assistant, Platon.

Prove that he ordained blacks to the Priesthood.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Joseph went back on the ordination of black men and said they had no right to the Priesthood.

Please show me the source for this as published while Joseph was alive.

[blitzinstripes]

Are you serious? He literally setup the church, ordained Bishops there AND built a friggin temple. Geesh. Are you illiterate? Btw, I wonder what those cursed Africans could possibly do with a temple in Ethiopia? Just for white people, huh?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Are you serious? He literally setup the church, ordained Bishops there AND built a friggin temple. Geesh. Are you illiterate? Btw, I wonder what those cursed Africans could possibly do with a temple in Ethiopia? Just for white people, huh?

He thinks the church is in error by going against the edicts established by Brigham. If Luke had his way, Blacks would not receive the priesthood.

Luke, feel free to set me straight on that.

[blitzinstripes]

And creepy old guys would still be snatching up our young daughters.