Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.

Do you trust the Q of 12, 1st press, and Pres. Nelson?

Yes, and have consistently
4
5%
Yes, but I didn't before
0
No votes
No, I never have
1
1%
No, but I did before covid
43
49%
No, but I did until LGBTQ issues
4
5%
No, but I did until the Olympics and the mall
5
6%
No, but I did more than 20 years ago
30
34%
 
Total votes: 87
Trucker
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Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Trucker »

Yep, another poll. Thanks for being good sports.And by "trust" I mean that they are generally good men, trying to do what the Lord wants them to do, and that they have our well-being in mind.

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TheDuke
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by TheDuke »

Yes but add how much? Trust is not a straight level mono thing. I trust my neighbor but lock my car. I asked for your login but didn't get it.

I did think that one talk at conference quoting Muhammed was funny. Muhammed sees a guy walk up and leave his camel untied. He asks the man why he didn't tie it up. He said he trusts in Allah. Muhammed told him to first tie up his camel, then trust in Allah.

I think you need a level of trust, some, everything they say, or limited.

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cab
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by cab »

Trucker wrote: January 28th, 2023, 8:25 pm Yep, another poll. Thanks for being good sports.And by "trust" I mean that they are generally good men, trying to do what the Lord wants them to do, and that they have our well-being in mind.

You need another “No. Other: explain your own recent tipping point” option

Valo
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Valo »

If all the intelligent good men and women leave the Church who will be left? The ignorant, the vulnerable, and the evil.

Something to think about.

...

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MikeMaillet
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by MikeMaillet »

There were a few things that woke me up from a deep slumber regarding the LDS church. The first one was the City Creek Mall and the other one was seeing a short video clip of my Libertarian hero, Ron Paul, making the horned hand sign whilst entering a car. I started digging and ended up discovering Isaiah and this led me to look at the Book of Mormon much more seriously. I believe that Joseph Smith was the Prophet for our generation and that there have been a few good men here and there that held high leadership positions in the church. The church has now been totally taken over by leaders who are either in league with Satan or are so stupidly clinging to Babylon (the iFit dude) that they are led astray.

My advice is to ignore the LDS church leaders in high positions and to rely on righteous living, scripture study and prayer in order to be guided by God in these most perilous times.

Mike

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 12:49 am If all the intelligent good men and women leave the Church who will be left? The ignorant, the vulnerable, and the evil.

Something to think about.

...
That’s kind of why the Lord prophesied that He’d take the fullness of the gospel from among them. (3 Nephi 16:10-11)

The way the church is structured, you have to trust in the arm of flesh, there is no other option if you want stay in their good graces. And that system elevates those who are obedient to men. Of course it’s going to fall into apostasy when founded upon such precepts.
Last edited by Reluctant Watchman on January 29th, 2023, 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

My tipping point? I believe questions about the church really started with 9/11 and why they didn’t call out the corruption. I used the same justification that many on the forum have used. “Well… there’s gotta be a reason, they know something that I don’t.” And come to find out, they did know something, and it was far worse that I could ever have imagined.

The next really massive turning point was the plandemic. And it piggybacked off of 9/11. There was a video posted not long ago titled “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” I think even before that, the whole “good global citizen” was also another wave of puzzlement on my part. Right before then, I was doing my best to try and justify the actions of the brethren, but the corruption just got so bad… and then to realize that they teach philosophies that directly contradict the words of Christ… that’s when I had to bow out.
Last edited by Reluctant Watchman on January 29th, 2023, 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by BeNotDeceived »

No, but I did before my ward split about 15 years ago, especially since reading and posting stuff. Maybe they’re ok for a few things, but the upper echelons are phony as a baloney pony.

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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by simpleton »

Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness.
For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right.
For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.
Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.
And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.
I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

A perfect prophetic description of us today in "Zion".

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Wolfwoman
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Wolfwoman »

No, not after I read in the scriptures not to put your trust in man. And I realized they are men (mortal humans).

I’d say it was less than 20 years ago, but that’s the closest choice on there, so I chose that one. However after I learned about vaccines, and realized how bad they can be, I realized I can go ahead and disagree with “the brethren” on things. I was pretty “true blue” before that. And pretty true blue except for vaccines after that. Deep questions and concerns started when reading Rock Waterman’s Pure Mormonism in 2014. Then listening to Denver Snuffer’s talks in 2014.
If I hadn’t been exposed to those, I think I would still have deep concerns today due to the handling of the Covid pandemic. Also the Skull and Bones info. And all this stuff:

1. Flip flopping on plural marriage, but still insisting they don’t get doctrinal stuff wrong.
2. Flip flopping on men of African descent receiving priesthood. I guess on this one they insisted they don’t get stuff wrong, but then later said that Brigham Young definitely got this wrong, but we should still trust them not to lead us astray.
3. Flip flopping on gay marriage. I was asked to help make political phone calls urging people to vote against it, and I did. Now they are supporting legislation guaranteeing the right to gay marriage.
4. Flip flopping on the I’m a Mormon campaign. It wasn’t that long ago… I still have a pass along card sending people to Mormon.org
5. Their opinion on the Bundy’s and their standoff with the fed govt in Nevada. They don’t really support the constitution and freedom anymore.
6. I already mentioned Covid above, but I’m on a roll, so I’ll list it here too. Their complete acquiescence to government control over us and the complete abdication of our rights. They shut down church meetings and temples. They required masks in the churches and in the temples. They advertised for the vaccines. They said the vaccines were a miracle from God and would end the pandemic. They required Covid vaccines to go see Christmas events on Temple Square. They required vaccines in my stake and ward to attend sacrament meeting, or you had to wear a mask if not vaccinated. They don’t support the Constitution and freedom any more. Bednar did say something about religious liberty once, but then he came out later and said churches are great at getting the people to do crap that they didn’t want to do in the first place.
7. The president of the church and other “higher ups” are members of Skull and Bones (and Owl and Key for our president). Did his association with that group help him get to the position he is in today? Why would he not disavow them if he’s supposed to be a holy man in contact with the Lord? Would they have him killed? Gerritt Gong was a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, probably pro communism.
8. They have billions of dollars at Ensign Peak, yet they tell the poor to choose tithing if they have to choose between tithing and buying groceries. They let poor LDS children in 3rd world countries starve/get malnourished while the Bountiful Children’s Foundation works to feed them.

Do I trust them? Well maybe I would trust them as a business, if I was looking to invest my money somewhere. They could probably help me grow my money. But do I trust them to “speak for God”? No.

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Wolfwoman
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Post by Wolfwoman »

I guess I could add more to my list.
9. Multiple changes made to temple ordinances. Multiple changes made in my lifetime alone.

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Original_Intent
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Post by Original_Intent »

I think they are generally good men trying to do good things. I think there MAY be some few downright evil infiltrators and/or some few completely misguided men and women in the upper echelons, and a crap ton of clueless in the 70/area/70 and stake president level. (As an aside one of the most based and clued in men I ever knew was my stake president.)

From what I have seen, most of the membership would do well to take their counsel and prayerfully consider it and apply it as the spirit directs. More work needs to be done on that last part than the former. (Although for a wonder it seems most of the "blindly follow the prophet" crowd are actually pretty darn selective about what they hear and what they don't hear, and many of the more "take the spirit as your guide" actually tend to more completely DO what the prophet and other leaders say. Virtue signaling obedient followers vs. people trying to work out their salvation with fear and trembling. But on the other other hand, this is just me judging and probably missing the mark.

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Original_Intent
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Post by Original_Intent »

I don't think we should ever trust anyone to the point of "I'll fall over backwards and you will catch me" when the consequence of not getting caught is damnation. Only the Lord is worthy of that level of trust.

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madvin
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Post by madvin »

I am not leaving the church because there are many good and true things about it. I did not follow their mandates on so-called covid because it didn't come from God. I am totally disgusted with their political leanings and their support of these U.N. agendas (lip service and financial contributions) not to mention their arrogance in not only ignoring glaring conspiracies, but actually believing they don't exist. I was blessed to have a good bishop during covid and he supported me when I was one of two who didn't mask up (I hate that phrase) and I thought it quite humorous when I'd get glares from some in the congregation, including the former bishop, but that is their problem.

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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Original_Intent wrote: January 29th, 2023, 8:42 am I don't think we should ever trust anyone to the point of "I'll fall over backwards and you will catch me" when the consequence of not getting caught is damnation. Only the Lord is worthy of that level of trust.
Christ was quite clear. Don’t trust anything from anyone unless you receive a witness from the Spirit. It doesn’t matter how large or small.

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HereWeGo
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by HereWeGo »

Wolfwoman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 7:27 am Then listening to Denver Snuffer’s talks in 2014.
These and "Passing the Heavenly Gift" is what woke up my wife and I.

Valo
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Valo »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 5:59 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 12:49 am If all the intelligent good men and women leave the Church who will be left? The ignorant, the vulnerable, and the evil.

Something to think about.

...
That’s kind of why the Lord prophesied that He’d take the fullness of the gospel from among them. (3 Nephi 16:10-11)

The way the church is structured, you have to trust in the arm of flesh, there is no other option if you want stay in their good graces. And that system elevates those who are obedient to men. Of course it’s going to fall into apostasy when founded upon such precepts.
But what of the weak and vulnerable? Shall we abandon them to the wolves?

I love the church and am genuinely heart broken at their betrayal.

...

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:41 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 5:59 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 12:49 am If all the intelligent good men and women leave the Church who will be left? The ignorant, the vulnerable, and the evil.

Something to think about.

...
That’s kind of why the Lord prophesied that He’d take the fullness of the gospel from among them. (3 Nephi 16:10-11)

The way the church is structured, you have to trust in the arm of flesh, there is no other option if you want stay in their good graces. And that system elevates those who are obedient to men. Of course it’s going to fall into apostasy when founded upon such precepts.
But what of the weak and vulnerable? Shall we abandon them to the wolves?

I love the church and am genuinely heart broken at their betrayal.
...
You love people, and I guess you think that qualifies as “the church.” It is certainly a body of believers, each in their own varying stage of progression and understanding. If you are able to sit in church and hear false doctrine preached without making your voice heard, then I wish you well. I just know I’m not welcome there.

I’m quite vocal with any of the “weak and vulnerable” whom I come in contact with. If you have a conviction on any principle taught in the church that has become corrupted, then speak up. But you’ll only be allowed to do so depending upon the rigidity and strictness of your leaders. The handbook gives them all the ammunition they need to excommunicate you from the church by publicly disagreeing with the brethren.

Valo
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Valo »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:48 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:41 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 5:59 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 12:49 am If all the intelligent good men and women leave the Church who will be left? The ignorant, the vulnerable, and the evil.

Something to think about.

...
That’s kind of why the Lord prophesied that He’d take the fullness of the gospel from among them. (3 Nephi 16:10-11)

The way the church is structured, you have to trust in the arm of flesh, there is no other option if you want stay in their good graces. And that system elevates those who are obedient to men. Of course it’s going to fall into apostasy when founded upon such precepts.
But what of the weak and vulnerable? Shall we abandon them to the wolves?

I love the church and am genuinely heart broken at their betrayal.
...
You love people, and I guess you think that qualifies as “the church.” It is certainly a body of believers, each in their own varying stage of progression and understanding. If you are able to sit in church and hear false doctrine preached without making your voice heard, then I wish you well. I just know I’m not welcome there.

I’m quite vocal with any of the “weak and vulnerable” whom I come in contact with. If you have a conviction on any principle taught in the church that has become corrupted, then speak up. But you’ll only be allowed to do so depending upon the rigidity and strictness of your leaders. The handbook gives them all the ammunition they need to excommunicate you from the church by publicly disagreeing with the brethren.
I don't feel bitterness or anger *towards the people in my ward and stake even though I have been deeply betrayed by the Church and the Church leaders and although I don't feel bitterness or resentful I do feel angry at the offenses done by those who profess to be God's mouthpiece on Earth*. You missed the point though. Love doesn't abandon. The weak are the ignorant. The vulnerable are those who are good and simple people who can be manipulated.

I am my brothers keeper.

I am not worried about myself or what might happen to me or being excommunicated. The leaders have no power over me.

...

EDIT: *I made a fairly significant edit to clarify what I mean because I do feel anger towards those who I think know better or ought to have known better yet they abdicated their responsibility and have ground the face of the poor and used and abused the widow and widower all for profit and gain. Such actions do kindle my anger against such sins.
Last edited by Valo on January 29th, 2023, 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:53 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:48 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:41 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 5:59 am

That’s kind of why the Lord prophesied that He’d take the fullness of the gospel from among them. (3 Nephi 16:10-11)

The way the church is structured, you have to trust in the arm of flesh, there is no other option if you want stay in their good graces. And that system elevates those who are obedient to men. Of course it’s going to fall into apostasy when founded upon such precepts.
But what of the weak and vulnerable? Shall we abandon them to the wolves?

I love the church and am genuinely heart broken at their betrayal.
...
You love people, and I guess you think that qualifies as “the church.” It is certainly a body of believers, each in their own varying stage of progression and understanding. If you are able to sit in church and hear false doctrine preached without making your voice heard, then I wish you well. I just know I’m not welcome there.

I’m quite vocal with any of the “weak and vulnerable” whom I come in contact with. If you have a conviction on any principle taught in the church that has become corrupted, then speak up. But you’ll only be allowed to do so depending upon the rigidity and strictness of your leaders. The handbook gives them all the ammunition they need to excommunicate you from the church by publicly disagreeing with the brethren.
I don't feel bitterness or anger even though I have been deeply betrayed by the Church. You missed the point though. Love doesn't abandon. The weak are the ignorant. The vulnerable are those who are good and simple people who can be manipulated.

I am my brothers keeper.

I am not worried about myself or what might happen to me or being excommunicated. The leaders have no power over me.

...
Nephi:

2 For I, Nephi, have not taught them many things concerning the manner of the Jews; for their works were works of darkness, and their doings were doings of abominations.

Nephi left “the church”, and chose not to teach his children false beliefs.

God will be merciful to the weak and ignorant. He knows their hearts.

Valo
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Valo »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:58 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:53 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:48 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:41 am
But what of the weak and vulnerable? Shall we abandon them to the wolves?

I love the church and am genuinely heart broken at their betrayal.
...
You love people, and I guess you think that qualifies as “the church.” It is certainly a body of believers, each in their own varying stage of progression and understanding. If you are able to sit in church and hear false doctrine preached without making your voice heard, then I wish you well. I just know I’m not welcome there.

I’m quite vocal with any of the “weak and vulnerable” whom I come in contact with. If you have a conviction on any principle taught in the church that has become corrupted, then speak up. But you’ll only be allowed to do so depending upon the rigidity and strictness of your leaders. The handbook gives them all the ammunition they need to excommunicate you from the church by publicly disagreeing with the brethren.
I don't feel bitterness or anger even though I have been deeply betrayed by the Church. You missed the point though. Love doesn't abandon. The weak are the ignorant. The vulnerable are those who are good and simple people who can be manipulated.

I am my brothers keeper.

I am not worried about myself or what might happen to me or being excommunicated. The leaders have no power over me.

...
Nephi:

2 For I, Nephi, have not taught them many things concerning the manner of the Jews; for their works were works of darkness, and their doings were doings of abominations.

Nephi left “the church”, and chose not to teach his children false beliefs.

God will be merciful to the weak and ignorant. He knows their hearts.
I am my brother's keeper and true love doesn't abandon (or enable wickedness).

I don't see any way to make that scripture say what you just said...But, Ok, I get it. This is how you've justified yourself.

Jesus Christ came down and lived with us wicked, less than the dust of the Earth sinners because of love.

I am nowhere near like Christ and so I can't excuse myself from mingling with sinners.

...

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:07 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:58 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:53 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:48 am
You love people, and I guess you think that qualifies as “the church.” It is certainly a body of believers, each in their own varying stage of progression and understanding. If you are able to sit in church and hear false doctrine preached without making your voice heard, then I wish you well. I just know I’m not welcome there.

I’m quite vocal with any of the “weak and vulnerable” whom I come in contact with. If you have a conviction on any principle taught in the church that has become corrupted, then speak up. But you’ll only be allowed to do so depending upon the rigidity and strictness of your leaders. The handbook gives them all the ammunition they need to excommunicate you from the church by publicly disagreeing with the brethren.
I don't feel bitterness or anger even though I have been deeply betrayed by the Church. You missed the point though. Love doesn't abandon. The weak are the ignorant. The vulnerable are those who are good and simple people who can be manipulated.

I am my brothers keeper.

I am not worried about myself or what might happen to me or being excommunicated. The leaders have no power over me.

...
Nephi:

2 For I, Nephi, have not taught them many things concerning the manner of the Jews; for their works were works of darkness, and their doings were doings of abominations.

Nephi left “the church”, and chose not to teach his children false beliefs.

God will be merciful to the weak and ignorant. He knows their hearts.
I am my brother's keeper and true love doesn't abandon (or enable wickedness).

I don't see any way to make that scripture say what you just said...But, Ok, I get it. This is how you've justified yourself.

Jesus Christ came down and lived with us wicked, less than the dust of the Earth sinners because of love.

I am nowhere near like Christ and so I can't excuse myself from mingling with sinners.

...
I haven’t “abandoned them”… they kicked me out. There’s a big difference. What do you expect someone like me to do? Walk into their during fast/testimony meeting and drop some bombs… the Spirit has told me to just leave them be. I was called to repentance by my SP for little things, nothing relating to doctrine. My own EQ president asked me why I don’t have my records removed. I’m working on that.

Valo
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Valo »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:09 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:07 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:58 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:53 am

I don't feel bitterness or anger even though I have been deeply betrayed by the Church. You missed the point though. Love doesn't abandon. The weak are the ignorant. The vulnerable are those who are good and simple people who can be manipulated.

I am my brothers keeper.

I am not worried about myself or what might happen to me or being excommunicated. The leaders have no power over me.

...
Nephi:

2 For I, Nephi, have not taught them many things concerning the manner of the Jews; for their works were works of darkness, and their doings were doings of abominations.

Nephi left “the church”, and chose not to teach his children false beliefs.

God will be merciful to the weak and ignorant. He knows their hearts.
I am my brother's keeper and true love doesn't abandon (or enable wickedness).

I don't see any way to make that scripture say what you just said...But, Ok, I get it. This is how you've justified yourself.

Jesus Christ came down and lived with us wicked, less than the dust of the Earth sinners because of love.

I am nowhere near like Christ and so I can't excuse myself from mingling with sinners.

...
I haven’t “abandoned them”… they kicked me out. There’s a big difference. What do you expect someone like me to do? Walk into their during fast/testimony meeting and drop some bombs… the Spirit has told me to just leave them be. I was called to repentance by my SP for little things, nothing relating to doctrine. My own EQ president asked me why I don’t have my record removed.
I wasn't really talking about you so I had no expectations concerning you. I'm talking about the idea of True Love and the idea of being responsible to others and how these ideas temper my desires to flee because I am so hurt. I've been hurt deeply by the Church.

But what are you willing to do for love?

If I dedicate all my acts to God and to building up His kingdom I find that He supports me and I am able to do things and say things I'd otherwise would not be able to do or say without it blowing up in my face.

I empathize with you. I know its hard to deal with the things you mention and I don't think you are wicked or evil for having made your choices but I am sharing another perspective that I am living by and I am at peace.


...

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:16 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:09 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:07 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 9:58 am

Nephi:

2 For I, Nephi, have not taught them many things concerning the manner of the Jews; for their works were works of darkness, and their doings were doings of abominations.

Nephi left “the church”, and chose not to teach his children false beliefs.

God will be merciful to the weak and ignorant. He knows their hearts.
I am my brother's keeper and true love doesn't abandon (or enable wickedness).

I don't see any way to make that scripture say what you just said...But, Ok, I get it. This is how you've justified yourself.

Jesus Christ came down and lived with us wicked, less than the dust of the Earth sinners because of love.

I am nowhere near like Christ and so I can't excuse myself from mingling with sinners.

...
I haven’t “abandoned them”… they kicked me out. There’s a big difference. What do you expect someone like me to do? Walk into their during fast/testimony meeting and drop some bombs… the Spirit has told me to just leave them be. I was called to repentance by my SP for little things, nothing relating to doctrine. My own EQ president asked me why I don’t have my record removed.
I wasn't really talking about you so I had no expectations concerning you. I'm talking about the idea of True Love and the idea of being responsible to others and how these ideas temper my desires to flee because I am so hurt. I've been hurt deeply by the Church.

But what are you willing to do for love?

If I dedicate all my acts to God and to building up His kingdom I find that He supports me and I am able to do things and say things I'd otherwise would not be able to do or say without it blowing up in my face.

I empathize with you. I know its hard to deal with the things you mention and I don't think you are wicked or evil for having made your choices but I am sharing another perspective that I am living by and I am at peace.


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I’m glad that you are in peace. I can vehemently disagree with someone w/in the church and still love them. IMO, sitting in a seat next to you and not speaking truth (as spoken to your heart) is being deceptive. It is the opposite of love. Unless the Spirit specifically told you to be silent. But speaking up will get you kicked out… and I am so grateful for that.

Valo
captain of 100
Posts: 974

Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Valo »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:46 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:16 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:09 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:07 am

I am my brother's keeper and true love doesn't abandon (or enable wickedness).

I don't see any way to make that scripture say what you just said...But, Ok, I get it. This is how you've justified yourself.

Jesus Christ came down and lived with us wicked, less than the dust of the Earth sinners because of love.

I am nowhere near like Christ and so I can't excuse myself from mingling with sinners.

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I haven’t “abandoned them”… they kicked me out. There’s a big difference. What do you expect someone like me to do? Walk into their during fast/testimony meeting and drop some bombs… the Spirit has told me to just leave them be. I was called to repentance by my SP for little things, nothing relating to doctrine. My own EQ president asked me why I don’t have my record removed.
I wasn't really talking about you so I had no expectations concerning you. I'm talking about the idea of True Love and the idea of being responsible to others and how these ideas temper my desires to flee because I am so hurt. I've been hurt deeply by the Church.

But what are you willing to do for love?

If I dedicate all my acts to God and to building up His kingdom I find that He supports me and I am able to do things and say things I'd otherwise would not be able to do or say without it blowing up in my face.

I empathize with you. I know its hard to deal with the things you mention and I don't think you are wicked or evil for having made your choices but I am sharing another perspective that I am living by and I am at peace.


...
I’m glad that you are in peace. I can vehemently disagree with someone w/in the church and still love them. IMO, sitting in a seat next to you and not speaking truth (as spoken to your heart) is being deceptive. It is the opposite of love. Unless the Spirit specifically told you to be silent. But speaking up will get you kicked out… and I am so grateful for that.
I speak out. I am not silent. I am not afraid of them. But I know there are evil people in the Church who take advantage of those who are vulnerable. If all the good men and women leave who will look be there so speak in defense of the vulnerable?

I said for a reason that if you dedicate all that you do to God and make sure what you say and what you do is genuinely and sincerely motivated by your love for God and your desire to do His will, then something extraordinary happens but you have to experience it to know it.

God sustains those who put their trust in Him. When you speak because God put words in your mouth and you were not afraid of the consequences, things work out for your good.

It's an amazing thing.

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