Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
- BenMcCrea
- captain of 100
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
So 60 people do not trust the leaders of the LDS Church and 4 do.
And this is called the LDS Freedom Forum?
Time to change the name of the Forum isn’t it?
And this is called the LDS Freedom Forum?
Time to change the name of the Forum isn’t it?
- Reluctant Watchman
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- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
I think it’s quite appropriate, if you can separate out that we are all saints living in the latter days and have the freedom to believe as God has worked upon our hearts and minds.
I decided to vote… looks like the totals are 4 to 61 now.
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
Trust is a tricky thing. Do I trust doctors? Depends. Sometimes they're wrong. There is a reason people get second opinions. Do I trust our leaders? I believe they have good intentions. But that doesn't mean I trust in them to always be correct or always say or do what the Lord wants. I do fully trust in them when they are guided and speak with the Spirit. There have been many stark instances of both speaking with and without the Spirit these past few years.
- JandD6572
- captain of 100
- Posts: 292
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
Thanks for sharing, I do remember Hinckley's remarks about Joel. Confused more people what ever good did. I am a huge believer about the way the buildings went down. I was not then, and not now, convinced it was done merely by planes.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 30th, 2023, 5:58 amAfter 9/11 I went down the rabbit hole. It was apparent to me that what the news and our government were telling us was false, as in they were complicit on some level. True Gadianton type stuff right out of the BoM. I tried telling my friends and family and hardly any of them would listen. Literal deer in the headlight kind of stares, or “you’re seriously off your rocker” kind of reactions. In my mind this was the perfect opportunity for our church to give even the slightest hint of our “awful situation” as prophesied in the BoM. I mean, it was the perfect scenario to drop just a hint that our own government was sabotaged and to prepare for tough times. And at minimum, how we should be cautious of carefully crafted messages from the media. (The media were pretty sloppy actually.) I just didn’t know our own church would go along with the false narrative. I thought we had more integrity than that.JandD6572 wrote: ↑January 30th, 2023, 1:41 amMy tipping point? I believe questions about the church really started with 9/11 Reluctant, what was your tipping point about 9/11 and the church? I'm curious to know. thanksReluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 29th, 2023, 6:03 am My tipping point? I believe questions about the church really started with 9/11 and why they didn’t call out the corruption. I used the same justification that many on the forum have used. “Well… there’s gotta be a reason, they know something that I don’t.” And come to find out, they did know something, and it was far worse that I could ever have imagined.
The next really massive turning point was the plandemic. And it piggybacked off of 9/11. There was a video posted not long ago titled “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” I think even before that, the whole “good global citizen” was also another wave of puzzlement on my part. Right before then, I was doing my best to try and justify the actions of the brethren, but the corruption just got so bad… and then to realize that they teach philosophies that directly contradict the words of Christ… that’s when I had to bow out.
And what did we get? Hinkley quoting Joel in GC and the church fired the one BYU professor that proved explosives were used in the demolition of the buildings. Learning from this experience would have been the perfect way to prepare the saints to handle to plandemic. “Hey, look everybody, be careful about what the media is telling you. They don’t always tell the truth, sometimes they lie, this whack-a-mole-jabby-jab is highly suspicious…. And most likely not ‘safe and effective’, you may want to wait for a bit more research. Oh, and btw, Ivermectin and other therapeutics are nearly 100% safe and 100% effective at treating the virus that was concocted in a lab.”
It wasn’t until last year are reading more into the LDS connections to all of these alphabet agencies that I realized Hinckley knew exactly what was going on. He knew exactly what MK Ultra is.
- InfoWarrior82
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10861
- Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
Should we trust church leaders that produce corrupt fruit? What did Jesus Christ say about this situation? I do not know of any other way we are to detect a false prophet from a true prophet of God. Do you know another way?
15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
"Ye shall know them by their fruits."InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑January 30th, 2023, 10:04 am
Should we trust church leaders that produce corrupt fruit? What did Jesus Christ say about this situation? I do not know of any other way we are to detect a false prophet from a true prophet of God. Do you know another way?
15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Yep, not their claims of divine appointment, but rather their fruits.
- InfoWarrior82
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10861
- Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
Correct.Trucker wrote: ↑January 30th, 2023, 10:26 am"Ye shall know them by their fruits."InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑January 30th, 2023, 10:04 am
Should we trust church leaders that produce corrupt fruit? What did Jesus Christ say about this situation? I do not know of any other way we are to detect a false prophet from a true prophet of God. Do you know another way?
15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Yep, not their claims of divine appointment, but rather their fruits.
"But but but, he had hands laid on his head and the keys were given to him!"
However:
34 Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?
35 Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson—
36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.
37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.
38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.
39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.
40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1783
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
I gotta turn this into a new thread.InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑January 30th, 2023, 10:40 amCorrect.Trucker wrote: ↑January 30th, 2023, 10:26 am"Ye shall know them by their fruits."InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑January 30th, 2023, 10:04 am
Should we trust church leaders that produce corrupt fruit? What did Jesus Christ say about this situation? I do not know of any other way we are to detect a false prophet from a true prophet of God. Do you know another way?
15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Yep, not their claims of divine appointment, but rather their fruits.
"But but but, he had hands laid on his head and the keys were given to him!"
However:
34 Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?
35 Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson—
36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.
37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.
38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.
39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.
40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2369
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
Someone He Can Trust
Without it, all that's left is stain
Each smiling face gone bust
The sound of stinging crying pain
When wounded is His trust
Foundations placed with trust in mind
Expect them there to stay
When drifting 'round, the gears will grind
And nerves begin to fray
Eternal things with trust do start
And nothing else will do
For trust, God will good gifts impart
He trusts when we are true
With mighty power way too grand
To trust with any man
Who will not rise and make a stand
For His Eternal plan
So in good faith, let's march ahead
Extoll Eternal law
And live it true, 'till we be dead
Though our way we must claw
God honors those on Earth for whom
Integrity's a must
He'll give a billion worlds like this to
Someone He can trust
Joshua
5/20/2020
Without it, all that's left is stain
Each smiling face gone bust
The sound of stinging crying pain
When wounded is His trust
Foundations placed with trust in mind
Expect them there to stay
When drifting 'round, the gears will grind
And nerves begin to fray
Eternal things with trust do start
And nothing else will do
For trust, God will good gifts impart
He trusts when we are true
With mighty power way too grand
To trust with any man
Who will not rise and make a stand
For His Eternal plan
So in good faith, let's march ahead
Extoll Eternal law
And live it true, 'till we be dead
Though our way we must claw
God honors those on Earth for whom
Integrity's a must
He'll give a billion worlds like this to
Someone He can trust
Joshua
5/20/2020
- HereWeGo
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1222
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
As I look back on my life, I think the first thing that made me say "What the hell?" was in 1998. When Hinckley was asked about man possibly becoming a God in eternity, he said "I don't know that we teach it". I couldn't figure out why he would deny or dismiss church doctrine. I suspected that something wasn't right when a "Prophet" of God would deny doctrine.
- Silver Pie
- seeker after Christ
- Posts: 8989
- Location: In the state that doesn't exist
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
I remember that. I knew full well he knew it because I did and he was my mother's generation. It was a very common teaching.HereWeGo wrote: ↑January 30th, 2023, 12:22 pm As I look back on my life, I think the first thing that made me say "What the hell?" was in 1998. When Hinckley was asked about man possibly becoming a God in eternity, he said "I don't know that we teach it". I couldn't figure out why he would deny or dismiss church doctrine. I suspected that something wasn't right when a "Prophet" of God would deny doctrine.
What did I do? I put it on the shelf because I didn't have an explanation for it. Same with his comment about tithing, that the members knew what they did with it. Perhaps those were the beginnings of the cracks, but I wasn't aware of it.
- Redpilled Mormon
- captain of 100
- Posts: 664
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
What about that interview where he was asked point blank "Are you a prophet" and he got this wiley cagey defensive look in his eye and answered very carefully: "... I am so sustained."Silver Pie wrote: ↑January 30th, 2023, 7:02 pmI remember that. I knew full well he knew it because I did and he was my mother's generation. It was a very common teaching.HereWeGo wrote: ↑January 30th, 2023, 12:22 pm As I look back on my life, I think the first thing that made me say "What the hell?" was in 1998. When Hinckley was asked about man possibly becoming a God in eternity, he said "I don't know that we teach it". I couldn't figure out why he would deny or dismiss church doctrine. I suspected that something wasn't right when a "Prophet" of God would deny doctrine.
What did I do? I put it on the shelf because I didn't have an explanation for it. Same with his comment about tithing, that the members knew what they did with it. Perhaps those were the beginnings of the cracks, but I wasn't aware of it.
- Redpilled Mormon
- captain of 100
- Posts: 664
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
Funny how the 'Trust the Science!' cult didn't actually want anyone pointing out the science/physics for those buildings went down was no bueno.JandD6572 wrote: ↑January 30th, 2023, 9:55 amThanks for sharing, I do remember Hinckley's remarks about Joel. Confused more people what ever good did. I am a huge believer about the way the buildings went down. I was not then, and not now, convinced it was done merely by planes.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 30th, 2023, 5:58 amAfter 9/11 I went down the rabbit hole. It was apparent to me that what the news and our government were telling us was false, as in they were complicit on some level. True Gadianton type stuff right out of the BoM. I tried telling my friends and family and hardly any of them would listen. Literal deer in the headlight kind of stares, or “you’re seriously off your rocker” kind of reactions. In my mind this was the perfect opportunity for our church to give even the slightest hint of our “awful situation” as prophesied in the BoM. I mean, it was the perfect scenario to drop just a hint that our own government was sabotaged and to prepare for tough times. And at minimum, how we should be cautious of carefully crafted messages from the media. (The media were pretty sloppy actually.) I just didn’t know our own church would go along with the false narrative. I thought we had more integrity than that.JandD6572 wrote: ↑January 30th, 2023, 1:41 amMy tipping point? I believe questions about the church really started with 9/11 Reluctant, what was your tipping point about 9/11 and the church? I'm curious to know. thanksReluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 29th, 2023, 6:03 am My tipping point? I believe questions about the church really started with 9/11 and why they didn’t call out the corruption. I used the same justification that many on the forum have used. “Well… there’s gotta be a reason, they know something that I don’t.” And come to find out, they did know something, and it was far worse that I could ever have imagined.
The next really massive turning point was the plandemic. And it piggybacked off of 9/11. There was a video posted not long ago titled “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” I think even before that, the whole “good global citizen” was also another wave of puzzlement on my part. Right before then, I was doing my best to try and justify the actions of the brethren, but the corruption just got so bad… and then to realize that they teach philosophies that directly contradict the words of Christ… that’s when I had to bow out.
And what did we get? Hinkley quoting Joel in GC and the church fired the one BYU professor that proved explosives were used in the demolition of the buildings. Learning from this experience would have been the perfect way to prepare the saints to handle to plandemic. “Hey, look everybody, be careful about what the media is telling you. They don’t always tell the truth, sometimes they lie, this whack-a-mole-jabby-jab is highly suspicious…. And most likely not ‘safe and effective’, you may want to wait for a bit more research. Oh, and btw, Ivermectin and other therapeutics are nearly 100% safe and 100% effective at treating the virus that was concocted in a lab.”
It wasn’t until last year are reading more into the LDS connections to all of these alphabet agencies that I realized Hinckley knew exactly what was going on. He knew exactly what MK Ultra is.
- Luke
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10785
- Location: England
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
The LDS Church doesn’t represent all Latter-day Saints (i.e. Saints who live in the latter days) than the Church of England represents all Christians in England.
- Gadianton Slayer
- Level 34 Illuminated
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- Location: A Sound Mind
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Just because they call themselves that doesn’t make it so.
- BenMcCrea
- captain of 100
- Posts: 224
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
You and I both know that LDS refers to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. So what Church do you have membership in Luke as someone who identifies as LDS?
- Luke
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10785
- Location: England
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
Still have my name on the LDS rolls. I don’t believe in the claims of any group though. I’m an independent.BenMcCrea wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 1:33 pmYou and I both know that LDS refers to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. So what Church do you have membership in Luke as someone who identifies as LDS?
- BenMcCrea
- captain of 100
- Posts: 224
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
So you refer to yourself as LDS because you are LDS.Luke wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 1:38 pmStill have my name on the LDS rolls. I don’t believe in the claims of any group though. I’m an independent.BenMcCrea wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 1:33 pmYou and I both know that LDS refers to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. So what Church do you have membership in Luke as someone who identifies as LDS?
- Chip
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 7909
- Location: California
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 1:30 pmThe Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Just because they call themselves that doesn’t make it so.
And it's notable how they want all the members to ritualistically partake in this exercise, as well. If you now refer to church members as Mormons at church, people would register that were either being recalcitrant, or you're really out-of-touch with what's been going on. It's just like freakin' pronouns.
- Luke
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10785
- Location: England
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
I referred to myself as an Independent Fundamentalist. Obviously I am a Latter-day Saint, as I am a Saint living in the latter days, but I am always careful to differentiate between myself and a mainstream Mormon.BenMcCrea wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 1:41 pmSo you refer to yourself as LDS because you are LDS.Luke wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 1:38 pmStill have my name on the LDS rolls. I don’t believe in the claims of any group though. I’m an independent.
- Gadianton Slayer
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 6551
- Location: A Sound Mind
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
Pronouns is a good way to put it. Meaningless fluff that’s not consistent with reality.Chip wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 1:47 pmGadianton Slayer wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 1:30 pmThe Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Just because they call themselves that doesn’t make it so.
And it's notable how they want all the members to ritualistically partake in this exercise, as well. If you now refer to church members as Mormons at church, people would register that were either being recalcitrant, or you're really out-of-touch with what's been going on. It's just like freakin' pronouns.
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- captain of 100
- Posts: 354
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
But does it really? If it was already in lockstep with the current church teachings, the name would have already been changed to Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Freedom Forum.
The name of the forum itself seems to indicate that we don't trust what is one of President Nelson's pet opinions turned doctrine of the church. It actually seems pretty apt, no?
- Silver Pie
- seeker after Christ
- Posts: 8989
- Location: In the state that doesn't exist
Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
I remember that, too. It's another thing I thought was really weird - but I was tbm and didn't know what to do with his weird answers in the interview. I mean, if he'd been a true prophet like I thought he was, he wouldn't have been afraid to answer in the affirmative. But, I realize now, he knew full well he wasn't a prophet of God, and that he had never spoken with God face-to-face, nor had he gotten a job from God to be a prophet, seer, or revelator.Redpilled Mormon wrote: ↑January 30th, 2023, 9:27 pm What about that interview where he was asked point blank "Are you a prophet" and he got this wiley cagey defensive look in his eye and answered very carefully: "... I am so sustained."
- Shawn Henry
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
Those are two entirely separate things though. Either way, we don't pass on the falsehoods, in or out. Nephi didn't have a choice since he was physically leaving the continent anyway. There are many here who can do more good from within. When we leave, we no longer have anyone to influence or to teach and they do need to be taught.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 29th, 2023, 9:58 am Nephi left “the church”, and chose not to teach his children false beliefs.
I agree it's often moot anyway, because when we do influence, we tend to get shut down or even kicked out.
- Shawn Henry
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?
Please do add to your list. I've never seen a completed flip-flop list. We sure do need one, it helps to see the bigger picture.