Second Anointing Question
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Second Anointing Question
Ok, so we know they are doing second anointings and that they believe that is how one gains the fullness of the priesthood. Do they believe it must be done to go to the Celestial Kingdom? If that is the case, do they also believe that second anointings will be performed for all who have died just like we do endowments? If they do, why aren't we already performing them?
- BeNotDeceived
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Re: Second Anointing Question
Good question.CuriousThinker wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 2:11 pm Ok, so we know they are doing second anointings and that they believe that is how one gains the fullness of the priesthood. Do they believe it must be done to go to the Celestial Kingdom? If that is the case, do they also believe that second anointings will be performed for all who have died just like we do endowments? If they do, why aren't we already performing them?
- Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Second Anointing Question
The concept of Second Anointing is referenced seven times in the Nemenhah Record... just in case anyone wants to explore the doctrine there. It really isn't anything like the LDS version.
- Baurak Ale
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Re: Second Anointing Question
Baptism is the only ordinance required to enter the Celestial Kingdom, but if you want to obtain the third level of it you must have the second anointing. It can only be performed upon someone who has entered into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, and that means having at least two living wives at one time. If it were to be performed upon someone vicariously after they died, they should have first had two concurrent wives while in life to qualify for the position posthumously, for they neither marry nor are given in marriage when they are out of this world.
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Re: Second Anointing Question
Since the Church no longer practices polygamy, how can all of these Stake Presidents, General Authorities, etc. and their wives be receiving it now or since the ban? Does that not count?Baurak Ale wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 3:57 pm Baptism is the only ordinance required to enter the Celestial Kingdom, but if you want to obtain the third level of it you must have the second anointing. It can only be performed upon someone who has entered into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, and that means having at least two living wives at one time. If it were to be performed upon someone vicariously after they died, they should have first had two concurrent wives while in life to qualify for the position posthumously, for they neither marry nor are given in marriage when they are out of this world.
What if those who die before they get married? Do they get a chance, if they are worthy, when they come back during the Millennium?
- Luke
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Re: Second Anointing Question
It is required for the Fullness of Celestial Glory. See Joseph Smith’s discourses on 20 January 1844 and 8 April 1844.
- Mindfields
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Re: Second Anointing Question
The second anointing is a reward for those in high level church positions and for those paying large amounts of tithing and donations to the church. Not really available to the average member.
Remember the first rule of the second annoiting is don't talk about the second anointing.
Remember the first rule of the second annoiting is don't talk about the second anointing.
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Re: Second Anointing Question
The description of the Holy of Holies in the Salt Lake temple as described by Boyd K. Packer in his book "The House of the Lord", he stated that the room is used for the higher ordinances of salvation for both the the living and the dead.
This makes it appear as though the church is performing these ordinances vicariously for the dead.
Although the most current first hand descriptions by people who have received "it", it consists of spoken blessings, washing feet, and pronunciation of blessing by husband to wife and wife to husband. No personal appearance of the Lord. No visions. In fact, temple presidents solicit 'nominations' from local stake presidents as whom should receive it. That's the standard LDS second anointing.
Compare that with those whom have actually knelt at the Savior's feet, bathed them in their tears of joy and gratitude, had His own nail imprinted hands placed upon their heads and blessed by His own voice. Followed by visions of glory and blessings unspeakable.
Which one would you rather receive, and which one seems more legitimate?
This makes it appear as though the church is performing these ordinances vicariously for the dead.
Although the most current first hand descriptions by people who have received "it", it consists of spoken blessings, washing feet, and pronunciation of blessing by husband to wife and wife to husband. No personal appearance of the Lord. No visions. In fact, temple presidents solicit 'nominations' from local stake presidents as whom should receive it. That's the standard LDS second anointing.
Compare that with those whom have actually knelt at the Savior's feet, bathed them in their tears of joy and gratitude, had His own nail imprinted hands placed upon their heads and blessed by His own voice. Followed by visions of glory and blessings unspeakable.
Which one would you rather receive, and which one seems more legitimate?
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Re: Second Anointing Question
And that's why current Apostles no longer claim to have seen the Lord , and in fact they try to downplay the importance of that witness. They have received the standard "second anointing", at the hand of another man, and NOT from the Lord himself. Hardly the same witness.
- Luke
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Re: Second Anointing Question
They aren’t supposed to be the same thing.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 5:34 pm The description of the Holy of Holies in the Salt Lake temple as described by Boyd K. Packer in his book "The House of the Lord", he stated that the room is used for the higher ordinances of salvation for both the the living and the dead.
This makes it appear as though the church is performing these ordinances vicariously for the dead.
Although the most current first hand descriptions by people who have received "it", it consists of spoken blessings, washing feet, and pronunciation of blessing by husband to wife and wife to husband. No personal appearance of the Lord. No visions. In fact, temple presidents solicit 'nominations' from local stake presidents as whom should receive it. That's the standard LDS second anointing.
Compare that with those whom have actually knelt at the Savior's feet, bathed them in their tears of joy and gratitude, had His own nail imprinted hands placed upon their heads and blessed by His own voice. Followed by visions of glory and blessings unspeakable.
Which one would you rather receive, and which one seems more legitimate?
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Re: Second Anointing Question
Luke wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 5:41 pmThey aren’t supposed to be the same thing.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 5:34 pm The description of the Holy of Holies in the Salt Lake temple as described by Boyd K. Packer in his book "The House of the Lord", he stated that the room is used for the higher ordinances of salvation for both the the living and the dead.
This makes it appear as though the church is performing these ordinances vicariously for the dead.
Although the most current first hand descriptions by people who have received "it", it consists of spoken blessings, washing feet, and pronunciation of blessing by husband to wife and wife to husband. No personal appearance of the Lord. No visions. In fact, temple presidents solicit 'nominations' from local stake presidents as whom should receive it. That's the standard LDS second anointing.
Compare that with those whom have actually knelt at the Savior's feet, bathed them in their tears of joy and gratitude, had His own nail imprinted hands placed upon their heads and blessed by His own voice. Followed by visions of glory and blessings unspeakable.
Which one would you rather receive, and which one seems more legitimate?
Care to expound?
- TheDuke
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Re: Second Anointing Question
where do you get that or are you being cheeky? My understanding of the teaching, which is sketchy, is that it is like Peter's teaching of C&E. To get into the CK you need to become elect. If by some reason you are to know this, during this life you get your C&E. That is you get to know about your being an elect. I understand the concept the same for 2nd anointing. You need to be married in the new and everlasting covenant, and then sealed up or ratified by HG or Holy Spirit of Promise then you'll be married for eternity. If you get or or feel like it is made sure (seems this comes from SLC) then it "supposedly" lets you know by the ordinance.Baurak Ale wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 3:57 pm Baptism is the only ordinance required to enter the Celestial Kingdom, but if you want to obtain the third level of it you must have the second anointing. It can only be performed upon someone who has entered into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, and that means having at least two living wives at one time. If it were to be performed upon someone vicariously after they died, they should have first had two concurrent wives while in life to qualify for the position posthumously, for they neither marry nor are given in marriage when they are out of this world.
I do not believe it is either required nor brings more PH authority. Neither do I think the way the LDS church leaders implement it is valid. It seems that the concept may be valid but not the implementation. I read about WW or someone early on that complained about the number of people originally given it that were then against the church. Of course this is my opinion as there really isn't anything that truly talks about it very clearly.
- Baurak Ale
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Re: Second Anointing Question
I would say a monogamist receiving their second anointing is as good as a bag of sand being baptized.CuriousThinker wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 4:28 pmSince the Church no longer practices polygamy, how can all of these Stake Presidents, General Authorities, etc. and their wives be receiving it now or since the ban? Does that not count?Baurak Ale wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 3:57 pm Baptism is the only ordinance required to enter the Celestial Kingdom, but if you want to obtain the third level of it you must have the second anointing. It can only be performed upon someone who has entered into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, and that means having at least two living wives at one time. If it were to be performed upon someone vicariously after they died, they should have first had two concurrent wives while in life to qualify for the position posthumously, for they neither marry nor are given in marriage when they are out of this world.
What if those who die before they get married? Do they get a chance, if they are worthy, when they come back during the Millennium?
Those who die without marriage were apparently never meant to marry before entering the kingdom (assuming personal agency against marriage was not a factor). God controls the timing of life, and he knows what missions our various spirits agreed to accomplish. Some came with a mission that did not include marriage this time. It is a big risk to come here for the whole reward—exaltation, that is—and some did not want to take that risk, and so they are taken before the time of marriage arrives so they can have the reward they desired. We will see it all clearly someday.
- TheDuke
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Re: Second Anointing Question
I agree with what you said above about not marrying. I am curious about why you see two wives as necessary.Baurak Ale wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 6:08 pmI would say a monogamist receiving their second anointing is as good as a bag of sand being baptized.CuriousThinker wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 4:28 pmSince the Church no longer practices polygamy, how can all of these Stake Presidents, General Authorities, etc. and their wives be receiving it now or since the ban? Does that not count?Baurak Ale wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 3:57 pm Baptism is the only ordinance required to enter the Celestial Kingdom, but if you want to obtain the third level of it you must have the second anointing. It can only be performed upon someone who has entered into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, and that means having at least two living wives at one time. If it were to be performed upon someone vicariously after they died, they should have first had two concurrent wives while in life to qualify for the position posthumously, for they neither marry nor are given in marriage when they are out of this world.
What if those who die before they get married? Do they get a chance, if they are worthy, when they come back during the Millennium?
Those who die without marriage were apparently never meant to marry before entering the kingdom (assuming personal agency against marriage was not a factor). God controls the timing of life, and he knows what missions our various spirits agreed to accomplish. Some came with a mission that did not include marriage this time. It is a big risk to come here for the whole reward—exaltation, that is—and some did not want to take that risk, and so they are taken before the time of marriage arrives so they can have the reward they desired. We will see it all clearly someday.
I also feel this is why the big push for more knowledge during this last dispensation that has been promised. I feel same for baptism. If you were born in ancient Egypt or Assyria, there was a reason. The gospel wasn't on the earth for a reason. With few exceptions the masses didn't warrant the gospel, and few if any will accept it later. Some, will, it seems some are like "mixins" that is they are good people that came then to do good, so they lived as if the gospel was on the earth.
I also feel most people that marry in the temple don't get ratified by HSoP. Again, some do but most don't, many don't even earn CK, let alone highest level. But, that is not an excuse for not trying, as it seems only later in life that C&E and such knowledge may be gained. Long after marrying and living as best you can for decades to find out you're an eternal partnership.
BTW it is baptism of water and the baptism of fire and Holy Ghost.
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Re: Second Anointing Question
I often keep this in mind:
41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
2 Nephi 9
So no matter what man comes up with on earth, we go through Jesus in the end, and only Jesus, who cannot be deceived.
the next two verse are just good too:
42 And whoso knocketh, to him will he open; and the wise, and the learned, and they that are rich, who are puffed up because of their learning, and their wisdom, and their riches—yea, they are they whom he despiseth; and save they shall cast these things away, and consider themselves fools before God, and come down in the depths of humility, he will not open unto them.
43 But the things of the wise and the prudent shall be hid from them forever—yea, that happiness which is prepared for the saints.
41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
2 Nephi 9
So no matter what man comes up with on earth, we go through Jesus in the end, and only Jesus, who cannot be deceived.
the next two verse are just good too:
42 And whoso knocketh, to him will he open; and the wise, and the learned, and they that are rich, who are puffed up because of their learning, and their wisdom, and their riches—yea, they are they whom he despiseth; and save they shall cast these things away, and consider themselves fools before God, and come down in the depths of humility, he will not open unto them.
43 But the things of the wise and the prudent shall be hid from them forever—yea, that happiness which is prepared for the saints.
- TheDuke
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Re: Second Anointing Question
So you're saying Jesus didn't need John to baptize him? and we don't need to go to someone to be baptized? That Peter, James, John, Paul are only there to write down things that we can find ourselves 2000 years later and baptize ourselves? And, when did the thread become "salvation" vs. LDS discussion of "exaltation"? Just wondering how this helps the OP. Maybe I missed a step in the middle, if so, please let me know.
- Wolfwoman
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Re: Second Anointing Question
I think they believe it means you have had your calling and election made sure.CuriousThinker wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 2:11 pm Ok, so we know they are doing second anointings and that they believe that is how one gains the fullness of the priesthood. Do they believe it must be done to go to the Celestial Kingdom? If that is the case, do they also believe that second anointings will be performed for all who have died just like we do endowments? If they do, why aren't we already performing them?
- Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Second Anointing Question
This is one of the more complete descriptions from the NH. The person teaching here is one of the three Nephites. I’ve clean up the proper nouns to make it more understandable:
32) And now, the Second Anointing is that ordinance which does prove unto the hearts and the souls of the children of men that the things that I have taught concerning the Endowment of Power are true. For it is that holy and sacred ordinance which is performed only by men and women who have been sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise.
33) And behold, they shall know that this sealing has taken place, not because some man has placed hands on them and declared it unto them, as shall be the custom in the latter days, but because that same Spirit shall have manifested the very truth of it unto them. And when this more sure word of prophecy shall have been delivered unto them, nothing may controvert it. They are sealed up unto Sahnhehmpeht forever, and though heaven and earth pass away, their covenant one to another shall never pass away, but is eternal.
34) Now, when all this is done unto them and they have received all the laws by covenant and performed all the ordinances of the Temple, and the Holy Spirit of Promise, which is the Holy Ghost, has made their election sure, they do enter into the most Holy Place in the Temple, and they shall wash and anoint each other in a most sacred manner.
35) And behold, they shall lay their hands upon each other and the Peacemaker shall lay His hands on them and anoint them. And they shall see Him and speak to Him face to face.
36) And behold, this is because they have received the Endowment of Power through taking upon themselves by covenant the Pillar of Consecration, the Pillar of Virtue, the Pillar of Sacrifice, and the Pillar of Knowledge. These things are taken up within the Temple by and through the ordinances of the Temple. And they are lived without the Temple in their walk and talk and in every part of their lives.
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Re: Second Anointing Question
My understanding is this but I could be wrong.
All are born with Christ Spirit inside.
Anointing is getting a greater portion of the Christ Spirit. And Second Anointing would be an even greater portion than the first.
...
All are born with Christ Spirit inside.
Anointing is getting a greater portion of the Christ Spirit. And Second Anointing would be an even greater portion than the first.
...
- FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Second Anointing Question
It's the ritual where they give you Nephi God powers - you are given license to commit ANY sin "as long as it's for the building up of the kingdom of the church..." la la la. (But of COURSE they only sin for good ). They are sworn to secrecy and given an injunction not to tell anyone they have received the SA (kinda like other secret societies.) It's recorded in a leather bound register, not online like temple endowments are. They don't just tap anyone and offer them that level of power and freedom in the club. If someone is tapped, they were already groomed for that.
http://www.ldsendowment.org/secondanointing.html
http://www.ldsendowment.org/secondanointing.html
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Re: Second Anointing Question
This record has really impacted you. I love that book. There is so much truth in it. I have recommended it to several but it is interesting how many shrug it off.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 8:29 pm This is one of the more complete descriptions from the NH. The person teaching here is one of the three Nephites. I’ve clean up the proper nouns to make it more understandable:
32) And now, the Second Anointing is that ordinance which does prove unto the hearts and the souls of the children of men that the things that I have taught concerning the Endowment of Power are true. For it is that holy and sacred ordinance which is performed only by men and women who have been sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise.
33) And behold, they shall know that this sealing has taken place, not because some man has placed hands on them and declared it unto them, as shall be the custom in the latter days, but because that same Spirit shall have manifested the very truth of it unto them. And when this more sure word of prophecy shall have been delivered unto them, nothing may controvert it. They are sealed up unto Sahnhehmpeht forever, and though heaven and earth pass away, their covenant one to another shall never pass away, but is eternal.
34) Now, when all this is done unto them and they have received all the laws by covenant and performed all the ordinances of the Temple, and the Holy Spirit of Promise, which is the Holy Ghost, has made their election sure, they do enter into the most Holy Place in the Temple, and they shall wash and anoint each other in a most sacred manner.
35) And behold, they shall lay their hands upon each other and the Peacemaker shall lay His hands on them and anoint them. And they shall see Him and speak to Him face to face.
36) And behold, this is because they have received the Endowment of Power through taking upon themselves by covenant the Pillar of Consecration, the Pillar of Virtue, the Pillar of Sacrifice, and the Pillar of Knowledge. These things are taken up within the Temple by and through the ordinances of the Temple. And they are lived without the Temple in their walk and talk and in every part of their lives.
- Niemand
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Re: Second Anointing Question
The trouble with the Second Anointing in the mainstream church is that once people have it they think they can do whatever they want.
- Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Second Anointing Question
It has helped tremendously in navigating the murky waters of Church history and the diluting or distortion of doctrine. Not to mention mountains of other aspects to Christ’s gospel. Christ became far more personal and the path to follow him far more clear. And, to be honest, it breaks my heart to see where the church is after all that Joseph was striving to do.
- Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Second Anointing Question
BTW, to preach that you receive a certain ordinance by the hand of man, and that you are then held unaccountable for any sin or action, is Satanic. Plain and simple.
- cab
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Re: Second Anointing Question
Baurak Ale wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 3:57 pm Baptism is the only ordinance required to enter the Celestial Kingdom, but if you want to obtain the third level of it you must have the second anointing. It can only be performed upon someone who has entered into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, and that means having at least two living wives at one time. If it were to be performed upon someone vicariously after they died, they should have first had two concurrent wives while in life to qualify for the position posthumously, for they neither marry nor are given in marriage when they are out of this world.