Meet Gerrit Gong...former CFR member, prolific pro globalist/communist writer...

[Reluctant Watchman]

Elder Oaks is right. I've seen it play out that way right here on this forum. Oaks isn't saying that people shouldn't seek to see the face of Christ, but that Satan and those under his influence use that argument to lure people into doing things that allow them to receive false manifestations from the dark side.

How important is it that we teach our children to seek the face of Christ while in this life? And, how often is this taught in the LDS church?

I think we should teach our children what is in the scriptures, and give them all the wisdom we have to give, including what led to our own testimonies of different things, but I don't think we should use their spiritual manifestations or experiences as a measuring stick for righteousness or worthiness of Celestial glory. We should focus on obeying the commandments, having charity, being humble, and praying always, and thinking on the Savior, giving yourself lots of quiet time to ponder, and it will happen as the Lord says, in his own time and way.

So, according to you, no, we shouldn't teach them to seek the face of the Savior while in this life. It is taught in the scriptures btw. Extensively actually.

[tmac]

Elder Oaks is right. I've seen it play out that way right here on this forum. Oaks isn't saying that people shouldn't seek to see the face of Christ, but that Satan and those under his influence use that argument to lure people into doing things that allow them to receive false manifestations from the dark side.

How important is it that we teach our children to seek the face of Christ while in this life? And, how often is this taught in the LDS church?

I think we should teach our children what is in the scriptures, and give them all the wisdom we have to give, including what led to our own testimonies of different things, but I don't think we should use their spiritual manifestations or experiences as a measuring stick for righteousness or worthiness of Celestial glory. We should focus on obeying the commandments, having charity, being humble, and praying always, and thinking on the Savior, giving yourself lots of quiet time to ponder, and it will happen as the Lord says, in his own time and way.

Why should anyone view DHO as any kind of expert on this particular subject?

[Sarah]

Elder Oaks is right. I've seen it play out that way right here on this forum. Oaks isn't saying that people shouldn't seek to see the face of Christ, but that Satan and those under his influence use that argument to lure people into doing things that allow them to receive false manifestations from the dark side.

How important is it that we teach our children to seek the face of Christ while in this life? And, how often is this taught in the LDS church?

I think we should teach our children what is in the scriptures, and give them all the wisdom we have to give, including what led to our own testimonies of different things, but I don't think we should use their spiritual manifestations or experiences as a measuring stick for righteousness or worthiness of Celestial glory. We should focus on obeying the commandments, having charity, being humble, and praying always, and thinking on the Savior, giving yourself lots of quiet time to ponder, and it will happen as the Lord says, in his own time and way.

So, according to you, no, we shouldn't teach them to seek the face of the Savior while in this life. It is taught in the scriptures btw. Extensively actually.

I know it is taught in the scriptures, and that's what I said we should teach. So yes, we can teach them exactly what the scripture say to seek the face of Christ, and we can share our own experiences with them if appropriate. They should seek to know for themselves who Jesus is, that inasmuch as they come unto him and obey his words and spirit, they will see the face of Jesus. But it shouldn't be something where they are made to feel they are doing something wrong if it hasn't happened yet. We preach the words of Christ and that leads them to Him.

[marc]

We discourage members from receiving the Second Comforter (Oaks taught this in a Meridian stake leadership meeting, that we don’t seek after such things)

Can you provide the source? I'd like to watch the video or read the transcript if it's available, please.

Here you go:

The elimination of the footnotes was not inadvertent. The LDS Church no longer teaches that it is possible for a faithful Latter-day Saint to receive the Second Comforter. As recently as June 13, 2015, LDS assistant historian Richard Turley and church apostle Dallin Oaks traveled to Boise, Idaho, and while there denounced the idea of church members having spiritual experiences that go “entirely against all the rules of order that we have talked about.” (Recording at 59 minutes.) Turley, quoting President Spencer W. Kimball, warned that this kind of experience “may not come from God. I am sure that there may be many spectacular things performed because the devil is very responsive.” (Id.)

Dealing directly with the Second Comforter, Turley denounced the claim, “only those who see the face of Jesus Christ in mortality will receive Celestial Glory.” (Id.)

Elder Oaks added: “the suggestions that this must happen in mortality is a familiar tactic of the adversary.” (Recording at 1 hr. 30 seconds.)

If these statements are not enough, a talk at FAIR was covered by both the Church News and LDS Meridian Magazine. The Church News headlined their article “Speaker identifies ‘spiritual threat‘.” In that article, it reports it is spiritually threatening to have “an inordinate interest in the Second Comforter.” LDS Meridian Magazine reprinted the talk. The talk states it is wrong to have, “Inordinate interest in the Second Comforter or Second Anointing, complaints that the church does not teach or emphasize them enough, and belief that books or teachings by individuals who are not church leaders are the best way to obtain them.”

The last time the Second Comforter was mentioned in general conference was in the early 1970’s. It is not covered in Priesthood, Relief Society or Gospel Doctrine lesson manuals of the church. It is not on the correlation committee’s approved list of topics suitable for discussion.

BTW, I've read this in more than one place, but this link to Denver's website was the first that I could find.
https://denversnuffer.com/tag/second-comforter/

Oh, that's right! I forgot about that effort to save members from Denver Snuffer. Thank you!

[Reluctant Watchman]

I know it is taught in the scriptures, and that's what I said we should teach. So yes, we can teach them exactly what the scripture say to seek the face of Christ, and we can share our own experiences with them if appropriate. They should seek to know for themselves who Jesus is, that inasmuch as they come unto him and obey his words and spirit, they will see the face of Jesus. But it shouldn't be something where they are made to feel they are doing something wrong if it hasn't happened yet. We preach the words of Christ and that leads them to Him.

Ok, I see where you are coming from. The challenge I have was w/ the second question I asked. We haven't been taught to seek a personal witness of Christ for decades in the church. It was a commonly held principle taught by Joseph but has been lost. So we need to keep a balance. We don't hang this over our kid's heads as a test of worthiness, but as a whole, we don't even teach them that having a Second Comforter / Seconding Anointing experience is even possible in this life.

[creator]

EDIT:
McClintock totally understands the secret combination...but he DOES'NT understand the involvement of past church leaders as much as current ones...line upon line.

Which past church leader do you think it started with?

[Sarah]

I know it is taught in the scriptures, and that's what I said we should teach. So yes, we can teach them exactly what the scripture say to seek the face of Christ, and we can share our own experiences with them if appropriate. They should seek to know for themselves who Jesus is, that inasmuch as they come unto him and obey his words and spirit, they will see the face of Jesus. But it shouldn't be something where they are made to feel they are doing something wrong if it hasn't happened yet. We preach the words of Christ and that leads them to Him.

Ok, I see where you are coming from. The challenge I have was w/ the second question I asked. We haven't been taught to seek a personal witness of Christ for decades in the church. It was a commonly held principle taught by Joseph but has been lost. So we need to keep a balance. We don't hang this over our kid's heads as a test of worthiness, but as a whole, we don't even teach them that having a Second Comforter / Seconding Anointing experience is even possible in this life.

I understand the concern. There may be room for improvement in what we teach in the church in that regard, but I also realize that we live in a complex time where Satan is mimicking the things of God, and our leaders are preaching to those who need to work on the basics of righteousness before they make it their number-one goal to see the Lord's face in person. Otherwise they may place themselves under greater condemnation should they chose to rebel, or be deceived by a false spirit.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I understand the concern. There may be room for improvement in what we teach in the church in that regard, but I also realize that we live in a complex time where Satan is mimicking the things of God, and our leaders are preaching to those who need to work on the basics of righteousness before they make it their number-one goal to see the Lord's face in person. Otherwise they may place themselves under greater condemnation should they chose to rebel, or be deceived by a false spirit.

Living a path that is agreeable to God is important in our desire to be taught by Christ. I just know that the principle is non-existent in the church today. I also don't think that a person will have this experience w/o first being prepared in whatever manner. There's no perfectly outlined set of steps. I don't believe anyone who is unprepared will have such an experience, it's not something you can force or make happen beforehand. The Lord knows us and isn't compelled to teach us when we aren't ready.

[Shawn Henry]

It's Jesus Christ's Church.

So was the Jewish church ran by Sadducees and Pharisees. It started out as his church, but did he ask members to stay faithful to it?

The church is the bride of Christ and in scriptures there is the faithful bride and the adulterous bride. Currently the adulterous bride is becoming even more adulterous, even merging itself with Satan's global agenda.

Christ was very clear that a church is only his when it is built upon his doctrine, which eliminates any church that used to be built on his doctrine.

A choice has been forced upon us. We have to choose between the gospel of Jesus Christ and the adulterous bride of Christ.

[Shawn Henry]

Which past church leader do you think it started with?

There is always judgement when God's people are invited into the Lord's presence through an invitation to build Zion. Judgement had to come upon the saints unless the Lord's prophets made an intercessory offering to stave off judgement, which offering Joseph and Oliver started in the Kirtland Temple and which Joseph and Hyrum continued with their martyrdom. This act transferred judgement to them and in consequence of this the eyes of the Seers began to close.

So, it rightfully started with Joseph and was wrongfully continued with BY. Prior to this intercessory offer Joseph was completely against Masonry and any secret works. After 1836 he embraced them all.

[HereWeGo]

I know it is taught in the scriptures, and that's what I said we should teach. So yes, we can teach them exactly what the scripture say to seek the face of Christ, and we can share our own experiences with them if appropriate. They should seek to know for themselves who Jesus is, that inasmuch as they come unto him and obey his words and spirit, they will see the face of Jesus. But it shouldn't be something where they are made to feel they are doing something wrong if it hasn't happened yet. We preach the words of Christ and that leads them to Him.

Ok, I see where you are coming from. The challenge I have was w/ the second question I asked. We haven't been taught to seek a personal witness of Christ for decades in the church. It was a commonly held principle taught by Joseph but has been lost. So we need to keep a balance. We don't hang this over our kid's heads as a test of worthiness, but as a whole, we don't even teach them that having a Second Comforter / Seconding Anointing experience is even possible in this life.

John 14:16 “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another aComforter, that he may abide with you for ever:”
• In pre-2013 scriptures it says 16a TG Jesus Christ
• In 2013 scriptures onward it says 16a TG Holy Ghost
The LDS church has changed it’s doctrine that the Second Comforter is Jesus Christ to the Second Comforter is the Holy Ghost.

In my opinion, this is where they rejected the fullness of the gospel. 3 Nephi 16:10 tells us what the result is when this happens.

[The Red Pill]

EDIT:
McClintock totally understands the secret combination...but he DOES'NT understand the involvement of past church leaders as much as current ones...line upon line.

Which past church leader do you think it started with?

After much research, I would have to say Brigham.

Brigham's secret combination was centered around his rise to the top and staying there at all costs. In many ways he introduced apostate doctrines into the church. Most have been abandoned...but some remain. The idea of following the prophet, he won't lead you astray is a Brigham idea that haunts us to this day. Joseph taught just the opposite.

If McClintock fully understood Brigham, John Taylor and others he quotes...he probably wouldn't quote them.

[tmac]

Can you imagine what the World (and the Church) will look like when GG makes it all the way to the top of the ladder?

[endlessQuestions]

Can you imagine what the World (and the Church) will look like when GG makes it all the way to the top of the ladder?

I imagine it will look much like his family.

[EmmaLee]

Can you imagine what the World (and the Church) will look like when GG makes it all the way to the top of the ladder?

Honestly, not a whole helluva lot different than it looks now. That's how bad things already are, IMO - it's just that some of the rot is still hiding under the surface, so it's hard for some to see/recognize.

[BigT]

If McClintock fully understood Brigham, John Taylor and others he quotes...he probably wouldn't quote them.

This is why I couldn’t read much of his first book, the one on secret combinations in Utah. It was tough to hear him sing BY’s praises. Maybe it gets better.

[GeeR]

Which past church leader do you think it started with?

There is always judgement when God's people are invited into the Lord's presence through an invitation to build Zion. Judgement had to come upon the saints unless the Lord's prophets made an intercessory offering to stave off judgement, which offering Joseph and Oliver started in the Kirtland Temple and which Joseph and Hyrum continued with their martyrdom. This act transferred judgement to them and in consequence of this the eyes of the Seers began to close.

So, it rightfully started with Joseph and was wrongfully continued with BY. Prior to this intercessory offer Joseph was completely against Masonry and any secret works. After 1836 he embraced them all.

You can read about this intrecessory offering or atonement by Joseph, not unlike the Mosaic "atonement", in the book Solving the Prophet Puzzle at Amazon for cheap.

"This book documents and details the Biblical profile of the Prophet Joseph Smith and provides the prophetic narrative behind his public Ministry. The book explains and makes sense out of the otherwise bizarre history of Mormonism and demonstrates that up until December of 1834, the Lord was using Joseph Smith to restore the fulness of the Gospel and Biblical Christianity. Following the breaking of the law of consecration and the everlasting covenant, the Latter day Saints were pronounced by God to be under condemnation and were promised that the fulness would return to the earth after a little season of chastisement, preparation and learning. The book provides the necessary context to understand why all of the very strange events of the LDS restoration movement took place. It provides contextual proof from the scriptures, of the veracity of the LDS Restoration Movement and the fact that Joseph Smith was a true prophet. This is the preliminary manuscript version of the book for those interested in participating in a peer review of the book and/or listening in on what is being said by members of a peer review. Much of the interpretation of LDS church history and scripture in the book, is the result of over 10,000 keyword search and corroboration from many readers of the authors blog, making the book, largely a crowdsourced work. To view comments and critique by members of the peer review up to this point, visit www.onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com or youtube and look for the series titled "Piece by piece: A peer review of the Book, Solving the Prophet Puzzle" The book is a large 8 1/2 by 11 with over 600 pages and over 1200 references and footnotes."

https://www.amazon.com/Solving-Prophet- ... 1508981841

[TwochurchesOnly]

I'd say the thing that's surprised me the most is the sheer number of these people who are affiliated with the University of Utah.

If we were to start with a "what prominent Church leaders, politicians, and businessmen have been affiliated with the University of Utah as a student or administrator since 1905", that would be a pretty incredible start.

One would expect it to be BYU. Odd that they go to the "other place".

BYU is the church college, but apparently the University of Utah is the school of the prophets.

LOL

[endlessQuestions]

I'd say the thing that's surprised me the most is the sheer number of these people who are affiliated with the University of Utah.

If we were to start with a "what prominent Church leaders, politicians, and businessmen have been affiliated with the University of Utah as a student or administrator since 1905", that would be a pretty incredible start.

One would expect it to be BYU. Odd that they go to the "other place".

BYU is the church college, but apparently the University of Utah is the school of the prophets.

LOL

And the Church Office Building is apparently where the "Finishing School of the Prophets" is housed - the place where they learn how to walk, talk, and act in such a way that they are "acceptable" to - well, to the world, I suppose.

[Shawn Henry]

Which past church leader do you think it started with?

There is always judgement when God's people are invited into the Lord's presence through an invitation to build Zion. Judgement had to come upon the saints unless the Lord's prophets made an intercessory offering to stave off judgement, which offering Joseph and Oliver started in the Kirtland Temple and which Joseph and Hyrum continued with their martyrdom. This act transferred judgement to them and in consequence of this the eyes of the Seers began to close.

So, it rightfully started with Joseph and was wrongfully continued with BY. Prior to this intercessory offer Joseph was completely against Masonry and any secret works. After 1836 he embraced them all.

You can read about this intrecessory offering or atonement by Joseph, not unlike the Mosaic "atonement", in the book Solving the Prophet Puzzle at Amazon for cheap.

"This book documents and details the Biblical profile of the Prophet Joseph Smith and provides the prophetic narrative behind his public Ministry. The book explains and makes sense out of the otherwise bizarre history of Mormonism and demonstrates that up until December of 1834, the Lord was using Joseph Smith to restore the fulness of the Gospel and Biblical Christianity. Following the breaking of the law of consecration and the everlasting covenant, the Latter day Saints were pronounced by God to be under condemnation and were promised that the fulness would return to the earth after a little season of chastisement, preparation and learning. The book provides the necessary context to understand why all of the very strange events of the LDS restoration movement took place. It provides contextual proof from the scriptures, of the veracity of the LDS Restoration Movement and the fact that Joseph Smith was a true prophet. This is the preliminary manuscript version of the book for those interested in participating in a peer review of the book and/or listening in on what is being said by members of a peer review. Much of the interpretation of LDS church history and scripture in the book, is the result of over 10,000 keyword search and corroboration from many readers of the authors blog, making the book, largely a crowdsourced work. To view comments and critique by members of the peer review up to this point, visit www.onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com or youtube and look for the series titled "Piece by piece: A peer review of the Book, Solving the Prophet Puzzle" The book is a large 8 1/2 by 11 with over 600 pages and over 1200 references and footnotes."

https://www.amazon.com/Solving-Prophet- ... 1508981841

Amen to that. It's also on his blog for those interested.

[Shawn Henry]

Can you imagine what the World (and the Church) will look like when GG makes it all the way to the top of the ladder?

It won't survive Elder Bednar.

[Lizzy60]

Can you imagine what the World (and the Church) will look like when GG makes it all the way to the top of the ladder?

It won't survive Elder Bednar.

I don’t believe it will survive Oaks.

[Shawn Henry]

Can you imagine what the World (and the Church) will look like when GG makes it all the way to the top of the ladder?

It won't survive Elder Bednar.

I don’t believe it will survive Oaks.

Yeah, just imagine if a year from now it becomes common knowledge that the vax was deadly.

[Subcomandante]

Can you imagine what the World (and the Church) will look like when GG makes it all the way to the top of the ladder?

It won't survive Elder Bednar.

I don’t believe it will survive Oaks.

It will survive until Christ receives the keys at AOA, then He becomes the Millennial King.

[investigator]

Can you imagine what the World (and the Church) will look like when GG makes it all the way to the top of the ladder?

It won't survive Elder Bednar.

I don’t believe it will survive Oaks.

It will survive until Christ receives the keys at AOA, then He becomes the Millennial King.

You are right, the "church" will survive until Christ receives the keys at Adam Ondi Ahman. However, you are sadly mistaken if you think that Christ will receive the keys from anyone within the institutional LDS "church". For certainly the LDS "church" leaders have lost any claim to have priesthood keys as Melchizdek priesthood is fragile and is lost when ever unrighteous dominion is exercised. I'm sorry but amen to the priesthood authority of the LDS "church" or the hope of having any keys to pass on.

36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.

37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.

There is a "church" that will survive and have the keys to pass on...

67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.

68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.

69 And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

7 And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;