Is Priesthood Even a Thing?

[Dusty Wanderer]

You've touched on a few things that I've also thought about. I find it more and more difficult to differentiate priesthood "power" from simply the gifts (and/or fruits) of the Spirit. I'd welcome any observable distinction that I'm missing, though.

The LDS view "priesthood" as a) a structure and b) some kind of "Force" like Star Wars (!) that the user can direct.

Usually I'd say this was not the case but I mentioned elsewhere that I stopped a severe electrical storm by praying and invoking priesthood. I would never pretend that I could repeat this on demand or that I was some kind of superman. But there are some Mormons who act as if this were the case!

Yes, and thanks; I remember you sharing this in another thread. Just curious, and in no way looking to belittle your experience, but did you also invoke the name of Jesus Christ along with your priesthood authority?

[Niemand]

You've touched on a few things that I've also thought about. I find it more and more difficult to differentiate priesthood "power" from simply the gifts (and/or fruits) of the Spirit. I'd welcome any observable distinction that I'm missing, though.

The LDS view "priesthood" as a) a structure and b) some kind of "Force" like Star Wars (!) that the user can direct.

Usually I'd say this was not the case but I mentioned elsewhere that I stopped a severe electrical storm by praying and invoking priesthood. I would never pretend that I could repeat this on demand or that I was some kind of superman. But there are some Mormons who act as if this were the case!

Yes, and thanks; I remember you sharing this in another thread. Just curious, and in no way looking to belittle your experience, but did you also invoke the name of Jesus Christ along with your priesthood authority?

I always try to if I do something like that.

[endlessQuestions]

Maybe it's already been mentioned on the forums before, but this guy's work is new to me, wondered if you guys have seen any of his vids, especially on the topic of whether priesthood is even a valid concept. I think he makes some very interesting points.

Ask Enoch.

[Silver Pie]

Responding to the question, not the videos.

I want to suggest to you, that the real definition of priesthood is an association between, mankind on the one hand, and those on the other side of the veil on the other hand. It is a brotherhood. Oh my, and it is potentially also, a sisterhood. And it is a fellowship, and it is a ministry if you will, in which there is connected together, and the real definition of priesthood is a connection between, a fellowship between, the "Powers of Heaven" on the one hand, and you on the other.




Page 11 of Lecture 5/Priesthood
Denver Snuffer

[Dusty Wanderer]

You've touched on a few things that I've also thought about. I find it more and more difficult to differentiate priesthood "power" from simply the gifts (and/or fruits) of the Spirit. I'd welcome any observable distinction that I'm missing, though.

The LDS view "priesthood" as a) a structure and b) some kind of "Force" like Star Wars (!) that the user can direct.

Usually I'd say this was not the case but I mentioned elsewhere that I stopped a severe electrical storm by praying and invoking priesthood. I would never pretend that I could repeat this on demand or that I was some kind of superman. But there are some Mormons who act as if this were the case!

Yes, and thanks; I remember you sharing this in another thread. Just curious, and in no way looking to belittle your experience, but did you also invoke the name of Jesus Christ along with your priesthood authority?

I always try to if I do something like that.

Me, too. I ask because as I look at my own experiences, I wonder if that name and my faith in Him is the effectuator, with the invocation of priesthood just lingering in the air.

I haven't been able to find any evidence in the scriptures of it working the other way around. Like Luke pointed out, miracles are wrought by faith. I wonder if the idea of priesthood functions as a key or catalyst to bolstering one's faith.

[Silver Pie]

Usually I'd say this was not the case but I mentioned elsewhere that I stopped a severe electrical storm by praying and invoking priesthood. I would never pretend that I could repeat this on demand or that I was some kind of superman. But there are some Mormons who act as if this were the case!

This reminds me of an experience I had many years ago:

A friend and I were walking in one of the few wilderness areas left in the town I was living in. We hadn't gone far when an SUV pulled up. A couple (man and woman) got out and let two dobermans out of the back. I wasn't concerned about the dogs, but my friend was. As the dogs, mindlessly happy, raced toward us, she raised her arm to the square and, in the name of Jesus, commanded them to go away (I forget the exact wording, but she wanted them to stop running toward us). They abruptly stopped short, as if they were on leashes and someone had pulled hard on the leashes. Then, still mindlessly happy, they turned and went in a different direction. I was amazed.

[TheChristian]

Why must one invoke the name of a man and his authority (Mechezidek Priesthood) alongside the name of our Saviour?
In the New Testament we find the Disciples wroughting, signs, wonders, miracles, healings, casting out of devils in the name of Jesus of Nazerath.
There is no instance were they invoked the name of Melchezidek alongside the name of the Lord in said New Testament, it was always just in the name of Jesus of Nazerath.

For instance,
Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.

Paul was greatly annoyed. Turning to the spirit, he said, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!

We find the very same method used in the early christian church, we can read of such in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th centuries, never a mention of Mechezidek Priesthood being invoked, it was always simply in the name of Jesus our Lord that signs, wonders and miracles, healings, etc, were wrought in those early days of the christian church.

The New testament states it was due to the Holy ghost falling apon them that gave them such power and authority....

But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;

Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God;

Jesus said to His disciples, without Me you can DO NOTHING!

[Redpilled Mormon]

Why must one invoke the name of a man and his authority (Mechezidek Priesthood) alongside the name of our Saviour?
In the New Testament we find the Disciples wroughting, signs, wonders, miracles, healings, casting out of devils in the name of Jesus of Nazerath.
There is no instance were they invoked the name of Melchezidek alongside the name of the Lord in said New Testament, it was always just in the name of Jesus of Nazerath.

For instance,
Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.

Paul was greatly annoyed. Turning to the spirit, he said, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!

We find the very same method used in the early christian church, we can read of such in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th centuries, never a mention of Mechezidek Priesthood being invoked, it was always simply in the name of Jesus our Lord that signs, wonders and miracles, healings, etc, were wrought in those early days of the christian church.

The New testament states it was due to the Holy ghost falling apon them that gave them such power and authority....

But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;

Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God;

Jesus said to His disciples, without Me you can DO NOTHING!

Exactly this!! Thank you for putting it so clearly, this is one of the things that was bothering me about the current lds practices.

[Silver Pie]

There is no instance were they invoked the name of Melchezidek alongside the name of the Lord in said New Testament, it was always just in the name of Jesus of Nazerath.

Amen!

[Silver Pie]

There's no strictly LDS scripture I know of, either, that says to invoke the name of Melchizedek. It seems to be a recent construct.

Why must one invoke the name of a man and his authority (Mechezidek Priesthood) alongside the name of our Saviour?
In the New Testament we find the Disciples wroughting, signs, wonders, miracles, healings, casting out of devils in the name of Jesus of Nazerath.
There is no instance were they invoked the name of Melchezidek alongside the name of the Lord in said New Testament, it was always just in the name of Jesus of Nazerath.

For instance,
Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.

Paul was greatly annoyed. Turning to the spirit, he said, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!

We find the very same method used in the early christian church, we can read of such in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th centuries, never a mention of Mechezidek Priesthood being invoked, it was always simply in the name of Jesus our Lord that signs, wonders and miracles, healings, etc, were wrought in those early days of the christian church.

The New testament states it was due to the Holy ghost falling apon them that gave them such power and authority....

But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;

Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God;

Jesus said to His disciples, without Me you can DO NOTHING!

[TheDuke]

What is this about invoking Melchizedek's name? You mean to mention the MP? You're not talking Melchizedek here. You're mentioning the priest after the order of the son of man..... or Jesus here, but in a way that doesn't use his name, which seemed a convention in ancient times.

I will be honest, when it comes to healing, which is only one possible use of PH, it seems to me to come down to the Lord's will all the time. Like said above, perhaps on occasion it requires asking plus the Lord's will; and some times maybe you need to add faith of one or more of the participants (not necessarily at the physical blessing BTW, i.e. remote parent).

A few PH holders seemed to get a pass, but only a very, very few at that. Jesus healed who he wanted, every time. Seems several others had the "sealing" power and could command healing. But, every other time that it is recorded, is the Lord's will (take Nebuchadnezzar). Joseph healed some that got ill again later and died, but where healed for a while? I do not buy those (many on the forum) that think if you have enough faith that you can always heal someone, w/i or w/o PH. that just isn't how god works. Sometimes it may seem that way for a few, but then only the successful attempts are recorded in scripture or diaries., except JS's.

[Silver Pie]

What is this about invoking Melchizedek's name?

"By the power of the holy Melchizedek priesthood which I hold."

The main problem I see with that is, according to JST Genesis, Melchizedek did mighty miracles by faith, not by a priesthood named after himself. He was only a child when he shut the mouths of lions, for example. And the Lectures on Faith don't mention needing the Melchizedek priesthood to heal or work miracles. And I see zero references in scripture that one has to use Melchizedek's name to give blessings, perform ordinances, or work miracles.

[HeberC]

Yesterday, we heard a loud knocking. It sounded like someone knocking on the door but it wasn't. I went upstairs and noticed that there was no one near the house or at the windows. It seemed like Morse code and I had the thought of writing it out and decoding it but then, I thought I probably shouldn't waste my time playing games with the entity. I raised my arm to the square and told it to go away to where it came from and not come back. There were a few more knocks but they sounded very distant, then it stopped. I invoked the name of Jesus Christ and not any priesthood.

I don't know much about "priesthood" and I consider it presumptuous to declare I have that authority. Outside of what I actually know, I consider what Joseph Smith said and the scriptures solid. Everything else is suspect. For instance, the declaration that 'there is a difference between the authority of the priesthood and priesthood power". That sounds like made up nonsense.

I want to learn more about priesthood and other things but for now, I know my purpose and what Jesus Christ has told me to my face. With those priorities, I have my hands full.

[oneClimbs]

Here’s my take: https://oneclimbs.com/2018/05/11/the-me ... and-faith/

The “Melchizedek Priesthood” is the holy priesthood after the order of the Son of God.

Bonus question: why do we say “Melchizedek” to avoid the too frequent use of Christ’s name but then close every prayer saying his name? Do we say the name of the priesthood more or less than we pray? (That’s 2 questions I suppose)

[TheDuke]

What is this about invoking Melchizedek's name?

"By the power of the holy Melchizedek priesthood which I hold."

The main problem I see with that is, according to JST Genesis, Melchizedek did mighty miracles by faith, not by a priesthood named after himself. He was only a child when he shut the mouths of lions, for example. And the Lectures on Faith don't mention needing the Melchizedek priesthood to heal or work miracles. And I see zero references in scripture that one has to use Melchizedek's name to give blessings, perform ordinances, or work miracles.

So, the story is that the MP is truly the "Priesthood after the Order of the Son of Man". To not use god's name it was called MP. It is NOT the PH of Melchizedek and the only reason it is referred to him is that he was the only PH holder more powerful than Abraham. The Israelites would say that anytime a prophet or one with PH power that was not Aaron's seed came about, they had the same PH as Melchizedek. Samuel is an example. It was there way to reverence the PH of Jehovah outside of the family lines Moses put in place to pass it down. It has been reused in title by JS. Please don't confuse it with anything to do with Melchizedek other than he also had the PH and he got it from god and left it with others all outside of the 12 tribes.

[Redpilled Mormon]

Does it make any rational sense that our Savior wants us to do all things by his name, designates his church by his name, instructs that we pray in his name, yet somehow he's not keen on us 'overusing' his name so he doesn't put his name on his own priesthood? It's borderline absurd, when you think about it rationally.

I don't think he ever used the old quip "that's my name dude, don't wear it out."

[Luke]

Does it make any rational sense that our Savior wants us to do all things by his name, designates his church by his name, instructs that we pray in his name, yet somehow he's not keen on us 'overusing' his name so he doesn't put his name on his own priesthood? It's borderline absurd, when you think about it rationally.

I don't think ever used the old quip "that's my name dude, don't wear it out."

D&C 107 doesn’t say that it was God who told them to call it the Melchizedek Priesthood. It just said they didn’t want to use His name too frequently.

[Niemand]

In some other churches there is a tradition that Melchizedek is the pre-mortal Christ. I have only heard about this recently but it came up on a YouTube channel I follow. He did a poll on this.

No, I don't know which churches teach this, but it is not a common belief. Melchizedek like Enoch seems to have been a strange, almost otherworldly figure.

[Redpilled Mormon]

In some other churches there is a tradition that Melchizedek is the pre-mortal Christ. I have only heard about this recently but it came up on a YouTube channel I follow. He did a poll on this.

No, I don't know which churches teach this, but it is not a common belief. Melchizedek like Enoch seems to have been a strange, almost otherworldly figure.

Many of the Doctrine of Christ group subscribe to this, Phil Davis espouses this idea pretty clearly. It's one of the things I disagree with him/them about.

[Silver Pie]

What is this about invoking Melchizedek's name?

"By the power of the holy Melchizedek priesthood which I hold."

The main problem I see with that is, according to JST Genesis, Melchizedek did mighty miracles by faith, not by a priesthood named after himself. He was only a child when he shut the mouths of lions, for example. And the Lectures on Faith don't mention needing the Melchizedek priesthood to heal or work miracles. And I see zero references in scripture that one has to use Melchizedek's name to give blessings, perform ordinances, or work miracles.

Please don't confuse it with anything to do with Melchizedek other than he also had the PH and he got it from god and left it with others all outside of the 12 tribes.

I was simply answering your question to the other poster - telling you where I thought they were coming from when they said that.
And then I added my own thoughts about using faith only to perform miracles, but it was more of an aside.

[Silver Pie]

Does it make any rational sense that our Savior wants us to do all things by his name, designates his church by his name, instructs that we pray in his name, yet somehow he's not keen on us 'overusing' his name so he doesn't put his name on his own priesthood? It's borderline absurd, when you think about it rationally.

I don't think he ever used the old quip "that's my name dude, don't wear it out."

I never thought about it that way.
Perhaps it was humans who decided on their own not to wear out the name - much like yhwh was not allowed to be spoken, or those people who think it's more respectful to write G_d instead of God.

[Silver Pie]

D&C 107 doesn’t say that it was God who told them to call it the Melchizedek Priesthood. It just said they didn’t want to use His name too frequently.

Yeah.

[Redpilled Mormon]

Does it make any rational sense that our Savior wants us to do all things by his name, designates his church by his name, instructs that we pray in his name, yet somehow he's not keen on us 'overusing' his name so he doesn't put his name on his own priesthood? It's borderline absurd, when you think about it rationally.

I don't think ever used the old quip "that's my name dude, don't wear it out."

D&C 107 doesn’t say that it was God who told them to call it the Melchizedek Priesthood. It just said they didn’t want to use His name too frequently.

So why didn't the Savior correct them that it needed to be called in his name, the same way he did regarding the name of his church? I think this is maybe the dog that wasn't barking, a serious clue that the priesthood is an artifice of man.

[Luke]

Does it make any rational sense that our Savior wants us to do all things by his name, designates his church by his name, instructs that we pray in his name, yet somehow he's not keen on us 'overusing' his name so he doesn't put his name on his own priesthood? It's borderline absurd, when you think about it rationally.

I don't think ever used the old quip "that's my name dude, don't wear it out."

D&C 107 doesn’t say that it was God who told them to call it the Melchizedek Priesthood. It just said they didn’t want to use His name too frequently.

So why didn't the Savior correct them that it needed to be called in his name, the same way he did regarding the name of his church? I think this is maybe the dog that wasn't barking, a serious clue that the priesthood is an artifice of man.

Hard to escape the reality of Priesthood in the Book of Mormon.

[Redpilled Mormon]

Does it make any rational sense that our Savior wants us to do all things by his name, designates his church by his name, instructs that we pray in his name, yet somehow he's not keen on us 'overusing' his name so he doesn't put his name on his own priesthood? It's borderline absurd, when you think about it rationally.

I don't think ever used the old quip "that's my name dude, don't wear it out."

D&C 107 doesn’t say that it was God who told them to call it the Melchizedek Priesthood. It just said they didn’t want to use His name too frequently.

So why didn't the Savior correct them that it needed to be called in his name, the same way he did regarding the name of his church? I think this is maybe the dog that wasn't barking, a serious clue that the priesthood is an artifice of man.

Hard to escape the reality of Priesthood in the Book of Mormon.

Based on? (Not quipping here, looking for solid arguments)