I was taught somewhere along the line that the Lectures were not relevant. Then I discovered LDSFF and had to find out for myself.
Elder Bednar quotes from the Lectures as if they are scripture, but somehow misses what they say.
What do you think?
Post by Shawn Henry »
Post by sushi_chef »
Post by Shawn Henry »
God is not "a" spirit. God is a personage of spirit. Big difference. People are always getting this incorrectly.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 8:35 pm Removing them from canon gave them all the option of picking and choosing what they want.
How many here on this forum actually consider them scripture as JS did, probably less than 5%.
How many believe God is a spirit, like LoF, the BoM, and the Bible say?
How many believe the Holy Ghost is not an actual person, but is the mind of God, just like the LoF say?
Post by Reluctant Watchman »
Post by endlessQuestions »
A) The part about the word "perhaps" is absolutely fascinating.marc wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 9:33 pmGod is not "a" spirit. God is a personage of spirit. Big difference. People are always getting this incorrectly.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 8:35 pm Removing them from canon gave them all the option of picking and choosing what they want.
How many here on this forum actually consider them scripture as JS did, probably less than 5%.
How many believe God is a spirit, like LoF, the BoM, and the Bible say?
How many believe the Holy Ghost is not an actual person, but is the mind of God, just like the LoF say?
Please read pages 8-10 of my treatise:
https://latterdaylamanite.files.wordpre ... itness.pdf
Or if you feel inclined, read the entire thing.
A. Thank you. I spent many years wrestling with the Lord in order to understand the Lectures on Faith (and a ton of digging/reading).endlessQuestions wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 9:47 pmA) The part about the word "perhaps" is absolutely fascinating.marc wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 9:33 pmGod is not "a" spirit. God is a personage of spirit. Big difference. People are always getting this incorrectly.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 8:35 pm Removing them from canon gave them all the option of picking and choosing what they want.
How many here on this forum actually consider them scripture as JS did, probably less than 5%.
How many believe God is a spirit, like LoF, the BoM, and the Bible say?
How many believe the Holy Ghost is not an actual person, but is the mind of God, just like the LoF say?
Please read pages 8-10 of my treatise:
https://latterdaylamanite.files.wordpre ... itness.pdf
Or if you feel inclined, read the entire thing.
B) I have been thinking, and praying about Zion very intently for awhile now, and the things you teach in your paper are very much aligned with what the Spirit has been teaching me. I wonder, have you had any luck in convincing those around you to become more equal? I can't even get my wife to budge on giving up anything of actual value... just junky stuff we have literally no need of.
I very, very much want to try to figure out how we can practically go about becoming a Zion people, but I often feel despondent about it because people see me as so extreme in this area of my life.
Post by endlessQuestions »
I will read it again. Thanks!marc wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 10:03 pmA. Thank you. I spent many years wrestling with the Lord in order to understand the Lectures on Faith (and a ton of digging/reading).endlessQuestions wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 9:47 pmA) The part about the word "perhaps" is absolutely fascinating.marc wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 9:33 pmGod is not "a" spirit. God is a personage of spirit. Big difference. People are always getting this incorrectly.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 8:35 pm Removing them from canon gave them all the option of picking and choosing what they want.
How many here on this forum actually consider them scripture as JS did, probably less than 5%.
How many believe God is a spirit, like LoF, the BoM, and the Bible say?
How many believe the Holy Ghost is not an actual person, but is the mind of God, just like the LoF say?
Please read pages 8-10 of my treatise:
https://latterdaylamanite.files.wordpre ... itness.pdf
Or if you feel inclined, read the entire thing.
B) I have been thinking, and praying about Zion very intently for awhile now, and the things you teach in your paper are very much aligned with what the Spirit has been teaching me. I wonder, have you had any luck in convincing those around you to become more equal? I can't even get my wife to budge on giving up anything of actual value... just junky stuff we have literally no need of.
I very, very much want to try to figure out how we can practically go about becoming a Zion people, but I often feel despondent about it because people see me as so extreme in this area of my life.
B. Because I have been practicing what I preach, I believe I have persuaded my wife to understand by my example that it's correct and so she is also very giving of herself, too. It all begins with a Zion of one: you. Then through your example of patience and a whole lot of longsuffering, you are able to persuade those closest to you and then you can become a Zion family in your home. You might even be able through continuous loving service, persuade a neighbor. The process continues in this way with people around you.
My wife still shops and buys things she doesn't need, and sometimes I do to. But we're at a point in our lives where they serve as pastimes or a means of bringing us simple joy. I have no problem giving up whatever I have to help someone as I already live a consecrated life. And yes, to a typical Christian/LDS, you will appear radical and extreme. And I specifically address this on pages 12 and 13 if you want to read it again.
Post by Shawn Henry »
Yes, that is well written, thanks for the link. God is a personage of spirit. It's too bad LoF doesn't expound upon why personage of spirit is emphasized or how D&C 93:33 relates, but I suppose we have enough for now. Any additional expoundings would have to add to the Bible and BoM which state he is a spirit and not take the meaning in the opposite direction. I would love to know how spirit and element are combined, but yet one is still not flesh but a spirit or personage of spirit.marc wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 9:33 pmGod is not "a" spirit. God is a personage of spirit. Big difference. People are always getting this incorrectly.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 8:35 pm Removing them from canon gave them all the option of picking and choosing what they want.
How many here on this forum actually consider them scripture as JS did, probably less than 5%.
How many believe God is a spirit, like LoF, the BoM, and the Bible say?
How many believe the Holy Ghost is not an actual person, but is the mind of God, just like the LoF say?
Please read pages 8-10 of my treatise:
https://latterdaylamanite.files.wordpre ... itness.pdf
Or if you feel inclined, read the entire thing.
Probably most of the people in the world believe just that thing.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 9:38 pm Wait a minute, are there people that believe God has no physicality?
Post by Reluctant Watchman »
I should have clarified that statement. Are there people here on the forum (LDS background) that hold that belief?Obrien wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 10:16 pmProbably most of the people in the world believe just that thing.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 9:38 pm Wait a minute, are there people that believe God has no physicality?
Post by Shawn Henry »
He's a "personage of spirit" according to Lectures on Faith. I don't know what that means, please tell me if you do.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 9:38 pm Wait a minute, are there people that believe God has no physicality?
Post by Reluctant Watchman »
What’s the point of the resurrection?Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 10:24 pmHe's a "personage of spirit" according to Lectures on Faith. I don't know what that means, please tell me if you do.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 9:38 pm Wait a minute, are there people that believe God has no physicality?
The Bible says spirit, the BoM says spirit, and LoF says personage of spirit.
Marc rightfully connects D&C 93:33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy
Mesh that successfully with the other scriptures and I'll definitely hear you out.
I think I've addressed this on the forum before. I'm getting super drowsy right now and I'd probably butcher my attempt to explain it. The short answer is spirit is still matter but more pure or fine. But without a body of flesh, we couldn't learn good from evil, etc or experience joy or sorrow or all the opposition of things in order to transcend them and thus receive a fullness of joy.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 10:24 pmHe's a "personage of spirit" according to Lectures on Faith. I don't know what that means, please tell me if you do.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 9:38 pm Wait a minute, are there people that believe God has no physicality?
The Bible says spirit, the BoM says spirit, and LoF says personage of spirit.
Marc rightfully connects D&C 93:33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy
Mesh that successfully with the other scriptures and I'll definitely hear you out.
Post by Shawn Henry »
I totally agree with that, but what happens after we learn all that? Why do we need the clunky old flesh afterwards?marc wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 10:35 pmI think I've addressed this on the forum before. I'm getting super drowsy right now and I'd probably butcher my attempt to explain it. The short answer is spirit is still matter but more pure or fine. But without a body of flesh, we couldn't learn good from evil, etc or experience joy or sorrow or all the opposition of things in order to transcend them and thus receive a fullness of joy.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 10:24 pmHe's a "personage of spirit" according to Lectures on Faith. I don't know what that means, please tell me if you do.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 9:38 pm Wait a minute, are there people that believe God has no physicality?
The Bible says spirit, the BoM says spirit, and LoF says personage of spirit.
Marc rightfully connects D&C 93:33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy
Mesh that successfully with the other scriptures and I'll definitely hear you out.
Post by Reluctant Watchman »
Post by Shawn Henry »
In order to be judged according to the flesh, you have to be in the flesh. I don't know why that is and I don't know what the difference is between a spirit and personage of spirit or a tabernacle and a personage of tabernacle, but there is obviously a difference because both are used.
Post by Reluctant Watchman »
The Ascension of Isaiah adds similar context. His “robes” were in the 7th heaven. Each being a mortal body he was clothed in. I just wonder what the more accurate definition is of “immortality” in Moses 1:39.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 10:56 pmIn order to be judged according to the flesh, you have to be in the flesh. I don't know why that is and I don't know what the difference is between a spirit and personage of spirit or a tabernacle and a personage of tabernacle, but there is obviously a difference because both are used.
My personal opinion of a permanent resurrection is that you have earned the right to make it permanent if you choose to, but if you want to learn and grow more you can go back to the classroom of mortality and learn more, but that is just a personal opinion.
If our end goal is to be like God the Father, then our end goal is to become a personage of spirit. Resurrection is just a means to that end.
Is a glorified body that clunky? I doubt it. I see it as being allowed to operate to the highest degree in the full spectrum of reality.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 10:39 pm . . . . . I totally agree with that, but what happens after we learn all that? Why do we need the clunky old flesh afterwards?
Post by Mindfields »
Perhaps the resurrection is no more or less than living on after this life. Before Christ overcame death, living on after death wasn't possible for the rest of us.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 10:32 pmWhat’s the point of the resurrection?Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 10:24 pmHe's a "personage of spirit" according to Lectures on Faith. I don't know what that means, please tell me if you do.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 9:38 pm Wait a minute, are there people that believe God has no physicality?
The Bible says spirit, the BoM says spirit, and LoF says personage of spirit.
Marc rightfully connects D&C 93:33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy
Mesh that successfully with the other scriptures and I'll definitely hear you out.
1 Cor.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
Post by Reluctant Watchman »
Moses 1:30 would challenge that idea. Plus, we already live on as spirits. And yes, before Christ’s death, spirits lived in the spirit realm. He specifically taught that we went there and taught the spirits there.Mindfields wrote: ↑January 22nd, 2023, 7:11 amPerhaps the resurrection is no more or less than living on after this life. Before Christ overcame death, living on after death wasn't possible for the reat of us.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 10:32 pmWhat’s the point of the resurrection?Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 10:24 pmHe's a "personage of spirit" according to Lectures on Faith. I don't know what that means, please tell me if you do.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 21st, 2023, 9:38 pm Wait a minute, are there people that believe God has no physicality?
The Bible says spirit, the BoM says spirit, and LoF says personage of spirit.
Marc rightfully connects D&C 93:33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy
Mesh that successfully with the other scriptures and I'll definitely hear you out.
1 Cor.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
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