What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

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JLHPROF
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What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by JLHPROF »

As a counter discussion to the other thread the fact exists that God does and has called men as prophets to lead groups of his people throughout every dispensation.

Many here reject the leaders of the Church.
Many here look for a Davidic Servant, a One Mighty and Strong, or a new dispensation.
Many here also state firmly that they don't have to follow ANY man.

So IF there were a new messenger called by the Lord and truly sent by Him is there any thing on earth that would lead you to follow the direction of that man?

(And don't cop out with a "by the spirit" response - there's no reason the Lord's Spirit would override agency to make someone absolutely opposed to following a man suddenly feel it was right by the spirit. God expects more faith than to overrule our firmly held paradigms. He's not going to make you believe.)

endlessQuestions
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by endlessQuestions »

What do you mean "cop out"?

How do you propose determining whether someone has been called of God to lead you, if not by the Spirit?

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Redpilled Mormon
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by Redpilled Mormon »

'By the Spirit' = cop out to you?

Seriously man, you need to re-evaluate. I'm as wretched a sinner as they get, and even I recognize how crazy wrong that paradigm is.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

If God really did it then I would believe that he did it.

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Original_Intent
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by Original_Intent »

The prophet will never lead you astray.
It is not in the program.
Seeking personal revelation is dangerous because you could be deceived by evil spirits.

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JLHPROF
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by JLHPROF »

endlessQuestions wrote: January 20th, 2023, 8:45 pm What do you mean "cop out"?

How do you propose determining whether someone has been called of God to lead you, if not by the Spirit?
Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 20th, 2023, 8:53 pm 'By the Spirit' = cop out to you?

Seriously man, you need to re-evaluate. I'm as wretched a sinner as they get, and even I recognize how crazy wrong that paradigm is.
It's a cop out because it's not thought through. Jim Jones followers think they were led by the Spirit. Warren Jeff's followers think they have the Spirit. The Lafferty's thought the Spirit told them to kill. And the Church members you deride for following RMN are positive they're following the Spirit.

Saying "the Spirit" assumes that you actually know the Spirit when it speaks. History is replete with people claiming spiritual confirmation of many wrong things.
And since these spiritual confirmations tends to confirm already held beliefs I sincerely doubt many of the anti-man/anti-authority posters here would receive any confirmation to follow a man, even if God did send him.

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DJB
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by DJB »

This is a great question, and one all must consider for who and what’s to come. I’m inclined to believe the answer lies with what President Nelson taught:
In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Original_Intent wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:05 pm The prophet will never lead you astray.
It is not in the program.
Seeking personal revelation is dangerous because you could be deceived by evil spirits.
Christ conquers all at every moment in every place at every time.

And this means that evil can not come in the name of Christ, else Christ would cease to conquer all, but that simply can not be the case. The Author of the Church of the March 8Miracle does speak truth free from fear that it be from a wrong source, because it symbolizes the name of Christ is a miraculous way.

Brother Wowway can so testify.

Sim 🐂 . . .

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

JLHPROF wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:08 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 20th, 2023, 8:45 pm What do you mean "cop out"?

How do you propose determining whether someone has been called of God to lead you, if not by the Spirit?
Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 20th, 2023, 8:53 pm 'By the Spirit' = cop out to you?

Seriously man, you need to re-evaluate. I'm as wretched a sinner as they get, and even I recognize how crazy wrong that paradigm is.
It's a cop out because it's not thought through. Jim Jones followers think they were led by the Spirit. Warren Jeff's followers think they have the Spirit. The Lafferty's thought the Spirit told them to kill. And the Church members you deride for following RMN are positive they're following the Spirit.

Saying "the Spirit" assumes that you actually know the Spirit when it speaks. History is replete with people claiming spiritual confirmation of many wrong things.
And since these spiritual confirmations tends to confirm already held beliefs I sincerely doubt many of the anti-man/anti-authority posters here would receive any confirmation to follow a man, even if God did send him.
You sir

are correct.

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Original_Intent
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by Original_Intent »

I am not a blind follower of the PSRs, but I still listen to every conference, I consider them most likely inspired and most likely better men than me, and certainly people whose counsel I want to hear.

But I try to listen with the spirit. Sometimes I am taught things that have nothing to do with what the speaker is talking about. I get varying degrees of spiritual confirmation and whether the counsel applies to me or not. Most often it does, because the counsel is GENERAL counsel that more or less applies to everyone.

By the way, I learn much more by the spirit telling me I am wrong (and sometimes why and what is the correct thing) and the more that it disagrees with my previous idea, the more powerfully it confirms to me that it is the spirit and not me talking to myself internally. the best times are the few times that the truth is something completely outside of even my speculation, and I get an in-depth teaching that often corrects other incorrect ideas. Anyone that sought the spirit simply for confirmation is, in my opinion, wasting their time.

Rarely I have been simply told, other times I get a negative feeling that something "isn't quite right" and I need to study meditate and pray and sometimes it has taken weeks of wrestling with it and sometimes the answer becomes clear relatively quickly.

A prophet should never become a reason to be spiritually lazy and just figure if you need to know anything, a PSR will say it. A PSR may say walk north, but the details of where specifically we need to know and how to get there is usually on us, and if we only do the first we will either fail or have poorer results than we otherwise might have. And sometimes, as with the clot shot, the spirit may say "No, that is not correct." Clearly discernment plays a central role as I know good people that felt confirmation to get the shot. Maybe God needs them in heaven sooner.

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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

Original_Intent wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:05 pm The prophet will never lead you astray.
It is not in the program.
Seeking personal revelation is dangerous because you could be deceived by evil spirits.
D&C 45:56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.
57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

It doesn't say anything about taking the prophet as your guide.

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Original_Intent
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by Original_Intent »

Rumpelstiltskin wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:52 pm
Original_Intent wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:05 pm The prophet will never lead you astray.
It is not in the program.
Seeking personal revelation is dangerous because you could be deceived by evil spirits.
D&C 45:56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.
57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

It doesn't say anything about taking the prophet as your guide.
Yeah, I forgot the <sarc> tags...

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BuriedTartaria
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by BuriedTartaria »

I feel like very rarely does God call prophets who are intended to be leaders of groups. There's Moses, there was Christ (and I feel he didn't even really have anything organized he led, his truth caused a movement and people followed that), I know there were a lot of others. But I think sometimes a prophet is called just to share a message and give people direction but not necessarily to be a leader of a specific group of people.

Jeremiah's preaching had a profound impact on Lehi but did Jeremiah have a specific church he led? Maybe he did, I'm not certain but I'm leaning towards he just preached


Edit: and I may be wrong or painting too broad of a stroke with my idea, but sometimes you get a prophet like Samuel the Lamanite and they show up and they cause people to pause and think about their lives and then that type of prophet leaves

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Fred
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by Fred »

If God called a person to lead, that person would tell the truth. God does not hire liars to spread his word mixed with lies and deceit.

The Q15 have several things going for them. They are well read on the scriptures. People already believe their BS. Most people over look their blatant lies. Most people think they are not murderous thugs and so overlook the truth.

Any dumb arse can quote scripture and appear to be a man of God. Even Lucifer and Hillary can do that. By their fruits ye shall know them. God does not hire people to kill people and then call it a godsend. There is not even a remotely possible way that the Q15 frauds can overcome the incredible evidence against them.

One can not follow God and mammon at the same time. Anyone saying otherwise is calling God a liar.

They know that they are evil pricks. They know that God is not speaking to them. They know that satan is in charge of the many organizations that they have partnered with. They have an excuse. They needed the loot for a rainy day. That is because even though they read the scriptures, they do not actually believe them. Jesus pointed out that the birds do not store food and yet God sees to it that they are fed every day. But one can not chase the almighty dollar and at the same time expect God to protect them.

A homeless person can depend on God to provide. It might be shelters or good people, but their needs will be met. God is more apt to reward humility than arrogance. Hard to imagine anyone more arrogant than RMN, Oaks, and some of the others. They could teach classes on arrogance. Unfortunately, humility is not a word they know the meaning of.

Unless the Q15 admit that they are greedy people seeking riches and never realized that the jab was attempted murder until they had already killed a few people, they are not even worthy to be urinated on.

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HereWeGo
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by HereWeGo »

Rumpelstiltskin wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:52 pm
Original_Intent wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:05 pm The prophet will never lead you astray.
It is not in the program.
Seeking personal revelation is dangerous because you could be deceived by evil spirits.
D&C 45:56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.
57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

It doesn't say anything about taking the prophet as your guide.
^^^^^^^^^
THIS !!!

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JLHPROF
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by JLHPROF »

Fred wrote: January 20th, 2023, 10:29 pm If God called a person to lead, that person would tell the truth. God does not hire liars to spread his word mixed with lies and deceit.
I'll address this part since it's the only part of your rant that's on topic.

I agree. One way would be if this hypothetical man of God spoke truth.
But I don't think that would be sufficient alone to convince those who don't believe any man could be needed to lead them to God.

See, it's the Spirit issue again. If God sent someone and he taught something that we thought was false we'd still reject him, even if it were true. It's happened to how many men of God in history?

And then there remains the issue of what is true. Not that I in any way support the liberal woke crap about "my truth" vs "your truth". Truth does exist and it's knowledge of things as they were, as they are, and as they are to come. But every religion thinks they have the truth.
The Church members are convinced their religion is true. The Catholics are convinced their religion is true. Warren jeffs followers are convinced their religion is true.

So do people only speak truth when they agree with our beliefs? Are they the only leaders we'd follow?

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darknesstolight
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by darknesstolight »

BeNotDeceived wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:20 pm
Original_Intent wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:05 pm The prophet will never lead you astray.
It is not in the program.
Seeking personal revelation is dangerous because you could be deceived by evil spirits.
Christ conquers all at every moment in every place at every time.

And this means that evil can not come in the name of Christ, else Christ would cease to conquer all, but that simply can not be the case. The Author of the Church of the March 8Miracle does speak truth free from fear that it be from a wrong source, because it symbolizes the name of Christ is a miraculous way.

Brother Wowway can so testify.

Sim 🐂 . . .
Sim bull

Sure win

...

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harakim
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by harakim »

JLHPROF wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:08 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 20th, 2023, 8:45 pm What do you mean "cop out"?

How do you propose determining whether someone has been called of God to lead you, if not by the Spirit?
Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 20th, 2023, 8:53 pm 'By the Spirit' = cop out to you?

Seriously man, you need to re-evaluate. I'm as wretched a sinner as they get, and even I recognize how crazy wrong that paradigm is.
It's a cop out because it's not thought through. Jim Jones followers think they were led by the Spirit. Warren Jeff's followers think they have the Spirit. The Lafferty's thought the Spirit told them to kill. And the Church members you deride for following RMN are positive they're following the Spirit.

Saying "the Spirit" assumes that you actually know the Spirit when it speaks. History is replete with people claiming spiritual confirmation of many wrong things.
And since these spiritual confirmations tends to confirm already held beliefs I sincerely doubt many of the anti-man/anti-authority posters here would receive any confirmation to follow a man, even if God did send him.
We all have a right to be wrong. I would still go by the spirit.

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JandD6572
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by JandD6572 »

JLHPROF wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:08 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 20th, 2023, 8:45 pm What do you mean "cop out"?

How do you propose determining whether someone has been called of God to lead you, if not by the Spirit?
Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 20th, 2023, 8:53 pm 'By the Spirit' = cop out to you?

Seriously man, you need to re-evaluate. I'm as wretched a sinner as they get, and even I recognize how crazy wrong that paradigm is.
It's a cop out because it's not thought through. Jim Jones followers think they were led by the Spirit. Warren Jeff's followers think they have the Spirit. The Lafferty's thought the Spirit told them to kill. And the Church members you deride for following RMN are positive they're following the Spirit.

Saying "the Spirit" assumes that you actually know the Spirit when it speaks. History is replete with people claiming spiritual confirmation of many wrong things.
And since these spiritual confirmations tends to confirm already held beliefs I sincerely doubt many of the anti-man/anti-authority posters here would receive any confirmation to follow a man, even if God did send him.
then by this viewpoint, all churches, including the precious Mormon church are all led away. because most religions, especially all those I have spoken with, of different faiths have all personally told me the same thing, the spirit, the holy Ghost has told them that they are right. So, as the Mormons also claim, the spirit testifies to them that theirs is the only and true way. Kind of baffling. I prefer to lean on the word of Christ, and what the Bible tells me, instead, then the words of every person from every religion.

So, I will rely on the comforter that Jesus Christ himself promised. I once tried to believe in the Mormon Church, but long had the desire to leave it. Maybe each person that is in their selected churches is truly there because the holy ghost told them that is where they should be.

Also, how do you really know, then, if it wasn't an evil spirit telling the Mormons that they are correct? I trust God, I trust Jesus Christ, and I trust no man.

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Luke
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by Luke »

I don’t think it’s about “following a man”. But it’s about aligning yourself with a true messenger and a true work which God is performing. Not necessarily following everything they say blindly.

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Wondering Wendy
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by Wondering Wendy »

I think prophets are sent to bring people to God. Those who already walk in the Spirit, don't really need them as they are prophets, themselves. They already speak to God and hear from him on their own. They will also recognize when a prophet is actually sent by God, because they will recognize the Lord's voice within him when a prophet is speaking for God.

If the Lord wants them to heed the message of that prophet, then he will direct them to do so. Because not every word from a prophet is for everyone. The Spirit directs us individually in different ways.

If someone steps forward and starts saying or doing things, like trying to gather Zion, I would ask the Lord if that person was sent by him, and if I get a confirmation, I would then ask what he wants me to do. Does he want me to assist in any way, or should I go about the Lord's business elsewhere?
JLHPROF wrote: January 20th, 2023, 8:41 pm So IF there were a new messenger called by the Lord and truly sent by Him is there any thing on earth that would lead you to follow the direction of that man?
No. I would never follow the direction of that man. I will only ever follow the direction of God. God's direction might be to heed the words spoken with the tongue of angels through that man, but I am still only following God.

blitzinstripes
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by blitzinstripes »

At some point,every member must come to terms with the fact that all of this "follow the prophet" stuff is largely a modern construct. It's not a doctrine that was ever taught by Christ, and it's not scriptural. Joseph appears not to have taught it in this context (the prophet, president of the church is incapable of leading you astray ). I will go as far as to say that I believe it is a devilish doctrine. Christ alone, is He who cannot lead us astray. This is BY and later "doctrine". And it takes some real mental gymnastics to sit here in 2023 with what we now know of the plandemic and the death shots and still chant that false mantra knowing full well that at the very least RMN was dead wrong about the vaccines, the masks, and all the rest. If not perfectly aware and a knowing participant in the deception. It also requires significant mental gymnastics to justify the church's alignment with undeniably evil groups such as WEF and UNICEF. General authorities including RMN who are actively involved in Skull and Bones, Owl and Key, Freemasonry, and other Illuminati type organizations.

I would say that 90% of the posters here are diligently seeking to follow Christ and be led by the Spirit and most are praying fervently for the Lord to send a true messenger to prepare the way and possibly correct the course of the ship. The original argument itself is a cop out, assuming that because we recognize a false Prophet when we see one, that we could and would never allow ourselves to be led by a true one. You seem to accept RMN on his claims simply because you were groomed and taught that and because he says so. You fail to prayerfully (and honestly) examine his fruits and the fruits of the church in recent times, (as admonished repeatedly in the scriptures) and you accuse US of being hard headed!

blitzinstripes
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by blitzinstripes »

Ask yourself one question, and be brutally honest.

If the "church" was a person, and sat down with the Lord for a temple recommend interview, what would they say when asked if they subscribe or align with any group whose practices are contrary to the gospel?

And if you need help answering that question, Google makes it really easy to see which groups the church is slogging around with in the mud.

HVDC
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by HVDC »

harakim wrote: January 21st, 2023, 12:11 am
JLHPROF wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:08 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 20th, 2023, 8:45 pm What do you mean "cop out"?

How do you propose determining whether someone has been called of God to lead you, if not by the Spirit?
Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 20th, 2023, 8:53 pm 'By the Spirit' = cop out to you?

Seriously man, you need to re-evaluate. I'm as wretched a sinner as they get, and even I recognize how crazy wrong that paradigm is.
It's a cop out because it's not thought through. Jim Jones followers think they were led by the Spirit. Warren Jeff's followers think they have the Spirit. The Lafferty's thought the Spirit told them to kill. And the Church members you deride for following RMN are positive they're following the Spirit.

Saying "the Spirit" assumes that you actually know the Spirit when it speaks. History is replete with people claiming spiritual confirmation of many wrong things.
And since these spiritual confirmations tends to confirm already held beliefs I sincerely doubt many of the anti-man/anti-authority posters here would receive any confirmation to follow a man, even if God did send him.
We all have a right to be wrong. I would still go by the spirit.
It's our responsibility to learn to do so.

Once one has had the spirit guide them.

Listening to someone else's guidance.

Is like listening to music at home Vs. In front of the musicians.

Big difference.

What the argument really should be.

Is whose voice are we getting direction from.

And how would we know.

My sheep know my voice.

There are other sheep.

And other shepherds.

Sir H

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: What would you do if God actually called someone to lead you?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

blitzinstripes wrote: January 21st, 2023, 4:26 am Ask yourself one question, and be brutally honest.

If the "church" was a person, and sat down with the Lord for a temple recommend interview, what would they say when asked if they subscribe or align with any group whose practices are contrary to the gospel?

And if you need help answering that question, Google makes it really easy to see which groups the church is slogging around with in the mud.
Mud wrestling with ideas is something Brother Wowway and his brother in Finland are contemplating.Or something like that.

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