Yes!!!!! Throw 130 in the trash. Let us all embrace the BoM, Jesus is Heavenly Father.Redpilled Mormon wrote: ↑January 22nd, 2023, 3:22 pm Is this scripture crucial evidence that the ldscorp''s definition of Godhead is wrong?
Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
- Shawn Henry
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
- Shawn Henry
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
It's almost a moot point considering Jesus Christ in our time has given us the name he wants us to call him by, which is Jesus Christ. Those who refer to him as Yahweh, Yeshua, or Jehovah are not following what he has revealed to us in the latter-days.
- Shawn Henry
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
What is the primary definition of one? First it means the same person and second it would mean one in purpose. Mosiah 15 is the best explanation and it does indeed seem to say they are the same person. The will of his spirit overrode the will of the flesh. The son is a reference to flesh. Try imaging reading those verses in Mosiah without preconceived notions and let the text speak for itself.
The Son praying to the Father, I admit at face value, does seem to indicate two people, unless it simply represents us piercing the veil and connecting with our true spirits, our unveiled portion. Many accounts of the spirit world explain that everyone has a portion of their spirit in the spirit world. Many are given this answer when they are perplexed about talking in the spirit to those who are still living.
- Shawn Henry
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
We don't know God told them, we know that they thought God told them. Perhaps all have a learning curve in discerning what God is saying. In the OT there are lesser gods, perhaps they are allowed influence over men as well the devil and his minions. I don't know.Redpilled Mormon wrote: ↑January 23rd, 2023, 11:00 pm But more on point for what bothers me is the difference between God doing something, and God telling men to do something.
-
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
There are reasons to use different names. It isn't just arbitrary. But Christ is linked to Messiah which is Annointed. But the Spirit of Christ is the Father. Adam was one manifestation of the Father and so was Yeshua known as Jesus they were anointed or both had the same Spirit of Christ indwelling inside. So names can distinguish between different personages who had the indwelling of The Father.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 12:38 pmIt's almost a moot point considering Jesus Christ in our time has given us the name he wants us to call him by, which is Jesus Christ. Those who refer to him as Yahweh, Yeshua, or Jehovah are not following what he has revealed to us in the latter-days.
The Book of Revelation identifies 7 Spirits of God.
I have to admit that this is my current understanding and I don't know all things related to this subject and will make corrections if needed.
...
- Wolfwoman
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
Meh. Agree to disagree.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 12:54 pmWhat is the primary definition of one? First it means the same person and second it would mean one in purpose. Mosiah 15 is the best explanation and it does indeed seem to say they are the same person. The will of his spirit overrode the will of the flesh. The son is a reference to flesh. Try imaging reading those verses in Mosiah without preconceived notions and let the text speak for itself.
The Son praying to the Father, I admit at face value, does seem to indicate two people, unless it simply represents us piercing the veil and connecting with our true spirits, our unveiled portion. Many accounts of the spirit world explain that everyone has a portion of their spirit in the spirit world. Many are given this answer when they are perplexed about talking in the spirit to those who are still living.
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
Very Trinitarian? Binitarian? Unitarian? Modalist?Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 12:54 pmWhat is the primary definition of one? First it means the same person and second it would mean one in purpose. Mosiah 15 is the best explanation and it does indeed seem to say they are the same person. The will of his spirit overrode the will of the flesh. The son is a reference to flesh. Try imaging reading those verses in Mosiah without preconceived notions and let the text speak for itself.
The Son praying to the Father, I admit at face value, does seem to indicate two people, unless it simply represents us piercing the veil and connecting with our true spirits, our unveiled portion. Many accounts of the spirit world explain that everyone has a portion of their spirit in the spirit world. Many are given this answer when they are perplexed about talking in the spirit to those who are still living.
Joseph went through those phases in his understanding. As evidenced in LoF and other early statements.
Eventually by revelation he arrived at the understanding of three separate personages over this earth, one group in a council of innumerable Gods.
His later teachings show that clearly.
You'll get there too I'm sure.
- BeNotDeceived
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
JLHPROF wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 3:14 pmVery Trinitarian? Binitarian? Unitarian? Modalist?Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 12:54 pmWhat is the primary definition of one? First it means the same person and second it would mean one in purpose. Mosiah 15 is the best explanation and it does indeed seem to say they are the same person. The will of his spirit overrode the will of the flesh. The son is a reference to flesh. Try imaging reading those verses in Mosiah without preconceived notions and let the text speak for itself.
The Son praying to the Father, I admit at face value, does seem to indicate two people, unless it simply represents us piercing the veil and connecting with our true spirits, our unveiled portion. Many accounts of the spirit world explain that everyone has a portion of their spirit in the spirit world. Many are given this answer when they are perplexed about talking in the spirit to those who are still living.
Joseph went through those phases in his understanding. As evidenced in LoF and other early statements.
Eventually by revelation he arrived at the understanding of three separate personages over this earth, one group in a council of innumerable Gods.
His later teachings show that clearly.
You'll get there too I'm sure.
The Council of Heaven is a wonder to behold.
- BeNotDeceived
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 9:03 amMoroni doesn't speak or read English and didn't say Christ which is Greek, he used the Hebrew word for Messiah.BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑January 29th, 2023, 12:54 pm C = 3 month
R = 18 day
I = 9 minute
S = 19 hour
T = 20 year
That is when an earthquake
landed Moroni’s Instrument as
seen from the opposite side of the planet.
A day and time can thus be seen to represent his name.
Scroll page 2 to see a video about what the BOM says about that.
Hebrew letters have numerical values.
Berisheet is an awesome example.
Why not English.
- Redpilled Mormon
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
Mosiah 3 leaped out at me as being very strong evidence of who Jesus is (and that he's not just another created being, or the 'good son'):Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 12:54 pmWhat is the primary definition of one? First it means the same person and second it would mean one in purpose. Mosiah 15 is the best explanation and it does indeed seem to say they are the same person. The will of his spirit overrode the will of the flesh. The son is a reference to flesh. Try imaging reading those verses in Mosiah without preconceived notions and let the text speak for itself.
The Son praying to the Father, I admit at face value, does seem to indicate two people, unless it simply represents us piercing the veil and connecting with our true spirits, our unveiled portion. Many accounts of the spirit world explain that everyone has a portion of their spirit in the spirit world. Many are given this answer when they are perplexed about talking in the spirit to those who are still living.
5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.
I theorize that Jesus praying to God the father is not evidence of 2 distinct beings, but of the omnipotent power of God, who is able to exist outside of space and time and administer everything that was and is, yet to 'play the game fairly' also is able to subdivide and inhabit a mortal body, experiencing mortality fully (meaning constraining his omniscience so that he could embody pure faith, and learn and grow just like any other mortal). And would make perfect sense that Jesus would pray to the Father for guidance in that instance, even if they are ultimately the same God. Just gaming it out in my mind though...
- Redpilled Mormon
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
The reason it's not moot is its very important to me that God is trustworthy. Even if God is omnipotent and omniscient, if he changes his mind and goes back on his word, then there is no sense in following or obeying such a whimsical God. And God cannot espouse evil principles at one point and then change to espousing good, otherwise how can we trust a word he says or a promise he makes. It bothers me that we get a vision of God in certain parts of the old testament who appears downright evil, not at all omnipotent or omniscient, and arbitrary and cruel. I don't think this was some 'phase' that Jesus outgrew, nor do I think the fundamentals of good vs evil changed along the way. I think it's far more likely that we have Israelites who strayed and followed some satanic demon god along the way, who managed to interject himself into the story and try to steal some glory from the real God, and treating these beings as one and the same is messing up our current understanding of who God is.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 12:38 pmIt's almost a moot point considering Jesus Christ in our time has given us the name he wants us to call him by, which is Jesus Christ. Those who refer to him as Yahweh, Yeshua, or Jehovah are not following what he has revealed to us in the latter-days.
According to the New Testament, very clear direction was given about what the name of the Savior would be: Jesus. Not Yahweh. Nor do I think Yahweh = Jehovah. Yahweh is so keen on hyping himself up that he forbids people from using all the letters in his name IIRC, meanwhile Jesus says we should do all things in his name, and publish his name to all corners of the earth. I conclude this is not the same person. At all. And so far I haven't seen any evidence submitted to support that he is.
- Being There
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
scriptural references ?Redpilled Mormon wrote: ↑January 20th, 2023, 5:15 pm Growing up lds, I always heard that Jesus was the same guy as Yahweh, the God of the old testament. I want to ask where we get this idea from? Although I put very little stock in D&C and the Pearl, still I'm looking for any and all scriptural references that might support this.
I'm having a hard time reconciling the actions of the 'god' of the old testament who seems to me to be lacking in omnipotence, omnicience, basic goodness, kindness, and seems extremely bloodthirsty and evil in many instances, yet somehow this same guy turns into Jesus? It seems weird.
I should also delineate between the God in early Genesis that spoke to Adam and Eve etc (who seems like actual God to me) and the one that was instructing the extermination and genocide right down to hoisting infants on swords and demanding virgin girls for himself. They don't seem like the same guy at all.
I have heard the theory floated that the god in most of the old testament is the same as the 'god' of this world, ie Satan; which I thought was an interesting possibility, though I don't see much to support it.
Anyway I'm hoping someone can give some idea why lds culture presumes Yahweh and Jesus are the same guy.
Well, if you believe in the Book of Mormon - you got it - and please don't try to change what the scriptures are saying -
just to fit what you believe - or want to believe.
and as I said to someone long ago.
No one ever said that Christ’s physical body dwells within us. Were did you come up with that one ?
and as usual - like most here in this forum - you still aren't reading the scriptures I posted -
you only care about what you want to believe.
In ALL the scriptures I already posted -Jesus says that HE - HIS SPIRIT - is the HOLY GHOST.
So how is the HOLY GHOST a different person ?
IT'S NOT ! It's Jesus Christ - HIS SPIRIT.
Joseph Smith taught false doctrine.
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
John 4:24
God - is a spirit, and came down in the Flesh - who is the son - Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is God the Father - the Son - and the Holy Ghost - being 1 person -
as these scriptures I've posted testify.
Doctrine and Covenants 20:28,
28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God,
infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.
Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that
God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
Ether 4
12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me. For behold,
I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.
2 Nephi 32
3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.
If angels "speak the words of Christ "- "by the power of the Holy Ghost",
and "will tell you all things what ye should do"
then the "words of Christ" must be His spirit - the Holy Ghost -
that "will tell you all things what ye should do"
and if by saying "I AM THE FATHER"
doesn't mean
"I AM THE FATHER"
then English has become useless.
Ether 4
12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me. For behold,
I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.
and if by saying
"God himself shall come down among the children of men"
doesn't mean
"God himself shall come down among the children of men"
then again, English has become useless.
Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that
God himself shall come down among the children of men,
and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
- SJR3t2
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
Resurrected Moroni possibly speaks all languages, but mortal Moroni didn't.Valo wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 9:29 amMoroni if he is real speaks all languages.SJR3t2 wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 9:03 amMoroni doesn't speak or read English and didn't say Christ which is Greek, he used the Hebrew word for Messiah.BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑January 29th, 2023, 12:54 pm C = 3 month
R = 18 day
I = 9 minute
S = 19 hour
T = 20 year
That is when an earthquake
landed Moroni’s Instrument as
seen from the opposite side of the planet.
A day and time can thus be seen to represent his name.
Also the Book of Mormon was translated.
God translates things in to a language we understand.
...
BoM was translated from reformed Egyptian with Hebrew thought patterns not English and Hellenistic thought patterns.
God doesn't follow Satan's calendar in any form.
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
No need to, I know what the BoM states on the subject, Hebrew not English. Christ is Greek, Messiah is Hebrew.BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 4:55 pmSJR3t2 wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 9:03 amMoroni doesn't speak or read English and didn't say Christ which is Greek, he used the Hebrew word for Messiah.BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑January 29th, 2023, 12:54 pm C = 3 month
R = 18 day
I = 9 minute
S = 19 hour
T = 20 year
That is when an earthquake
landed Moroni’s Instrument as
seen from the opposite side of the planet.
A day and time can thus be seen to represent his name.
Scroll page 2 to see a video about what the BOM says about that.
Hebrew letters have numerical values.
Berisheet is an awesome example.
Why not English.
- kirtland r.m.
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5149
Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
Who Is the God of the Old Testament? And more! Guys, dig into this. Too much here for me to try to summarize. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... t?lang=eng
And Joseph Smith's Sermon on Plurality of Gods
(as printed in History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473-479)http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ser ... sermon.htm
And Joseph Smith's Sermon on Plurality of Gods
(as printed in History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473-479)http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ser ... sermon.htm
- Redpilled Mormon
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
Being There wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 8:47 pmscriptural references ?Redpilled Mormon wrote: ↑January 20th, 2023, 5:15 pm Growing up lds, I always heard that Jesus was the same guy as Yahweh, the God of the old testament. I want to ask where we get this idea from? Although I put very little stock in D&C and the Pearl, still I'm looking for any and all scriptural references that might support this.
I'm having a hard time reconciling the actions of the 'god' of the old testament who seems to me to be lacking in omnipotence, omnicience, basic goodness, kindness, and seems extremely bloodthirsty and evil in many instances, yet somehow this same guy turns into Jesus? It seems weird.
I should also delineate between the God in early Genesis that spoke to Adam and Eve etc (who seems like actual God to me) and the one that was instructing the extermination and genocide right down to hoisting infants on swords and demanding virgin girls for himself. They don't seem like the same guy at all.
I have heard the theory floated that the god in most of the old testament is the same as the 'god' of this world, ie Satan; which I thought was an interesting possibility, though I don't see much to support it.
Anyway I'm hoping someone can give some idea why lds culture presumes Yahweh and Jesus are the same guy.
Well, if you believe in the Book of Mormon - you got it - and please don't try to change what the scriptures are saying -
just to fit what you believe - or want to believe.
and as I said to someone long ago.
No one ever said that Christ’s physical body dwells within us. Were did you come up with that one ?
and as usual - like most here in this forum - you still aren't reading the scriptures I posted -
you only care about what you want to believe.
In ALL the scriptures I already posted -Jesus says that HE - HIS SPIRIT - is the HOLY GHOST.
So how is the HOLY GHOST a different person ?
IT'S NOT ! It's Jesus Christ - HIS SPIRIT.
Joseph Smith taught false doctrine.
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
John 4:24
God - is a spirit, and came down in the Flesh - who is the son - Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is God the Father - the Son - and the Holy Ghost - being 1 person -
as these scriptures I've posted testify.
Doctrine and Covenants 20:28,
28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God,
infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.
Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that
God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
Ether 4
12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me. For behold,
I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.
2 Nephi 32
3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.
If angels "speak the words of Christ "- "by the power of the Holy Ghost",
and "will tell you all things what ye should do"
then the "words of Christ" must be His spirit - the Holy Ghost -
that "will tell you all things what ye should do"
and if by saying "I AM THE FATHER"
doesn't mean
"I AM THE FATHER"
then English has become useless.
Ether 4
12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me. For behold,
I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.
and if by saying
"God himself shall come down among the children of men"
doesn't mean
"God himself shall come down among the children of men"
then again, English has become useless.
Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that
God himself shall come down among the children of men,
and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
Are you confused? You scold me for not reading the scriptures you posted... but you never posted any scriptures or any responses in this thread until this post just now. So you come off a little disjointed. I'm not offended by the way, just pointing out that your accusation against me doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe this is one of those instances where you thought you posted something but never hit the 'submit' button, then you got irked when you felt you were being ignored? I don't know, maybe I'm missing something here?
Anyway as for the scriptures you posted above, I agree with all of the Book of Mormon ones (D&C is garbage and can't be trusted; some parts may be true but how would we ever know for sure?).
But you seem confused as to what I was asking. I've stated several times in this thread and others that I conclude from what the Book of Mormon teaches that Jesus and God the Father are one.
I was pointing out that I don't see any evidence that Yahweh is God, or some other name for Jesus. In fact I think it's likely based on Yahweh's actions that he's just another evil entity like Baal or Moloch or any of those golden calf idol gods that the Israelites were so prone worship. I asked for scriptural evidence supporting the assumption that this being who calls himself Yahweh is in fact 'real God' and not some satanic fake god. That's not the same question your quoted scriptures answer. Maybe you meant to post it in another thread? There is another thread about the nature of the godhead going on right now, so maybe that was what you were referring to?
- Redpilled Mormon
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- Posts: 664
Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
A link to a ldscorp manual... c'mon bro...kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 9:29 pm Who Is the God of the Old Testament? And more! Guys, dig into this. Too much here for me to try to summarize. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... t?lang=eng
And Joseph Smith's Sermon on Plurality of Gods
(as printed in History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473-479)http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ser ... sermon.htm
Look anything that contradicts what the Book of Mormon describes has got to be thrown out, right? Even if the vaunted Joseph Smith said/taught it (doubtful considering how much bs has been falsely ascribed to him). If the Book of Mormon is fake/false, then the whole shooting match with the lds and even all the other Restoration offshoots is also fake. If the Book of Mormon is true (as I believe) that doesn't mean the lds and other Restoration offshoots are true, it just gives us something to check the theology they are espousing against.
Again, If the Book of Mormon is true scripture, than anything that is taught which is contrary to what the Book of Mormon teaches we can throw out as bs for sure, regardless of who said it.
-
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
The first time you read the BoM was it in English?SJR3t2 wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 8:54 pmResurrected Moroni possibly speaks all languages, but mortal Moroni didn't.Valo wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 9:29 amMoroni if he is real speaks all languages.SJR3t2 wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 9:03 amMoroni doesn't speak or read English and didn't say Christ which is Greek, he used the Hebrew word for Messiah.BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑January 29th, 2023, 12:54 pm C = 3 month
R = 18 day
I = 9 minute
S = 19 hour
T = 20 year
That is when an earthquake
landed Moroni’s Instrument as
seen from the opposite side of the planet.
A day and time can thus be seen to represent his name.
Also the Book of Mormon was translated.
God translates things in to a language we understand.
...
BoM was translated from reformed Egyptian with Hebrew thought patterns not English and Hellenistic thought patterns.
God doesn't follow Satan's calendar in any form.
The first translation was English and it says Jesus Christ all over the translation so God does use Jesus Christ and the word Christ. Not sure I get your point about calendars.
...
- SJR3t2
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
JS translated it into English not YHWH. The 3rd moon of the year is not March.Valo wrote: ↑February 1st, 2023, 5:43 amThe first time you read the BoM was it in English?SJR3t2 wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 8:54 pmResurrected Moroni possibly speaks all languages, but mortal Moroni didn't.
BoM was translated from reformed Egyptian with Hebrew thought patterns not English and Hellenistic thought patterns.
God doesn't follow Satan's calendar in any form.
The first translation was English and it says Jesus Christ all over the translation so God does use Jesus Christ and the word Christ. Not sure I get your point about calendars.
...
- SJR3t2
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
You may like things I have here https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/holy-spirit/Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 12:22 pmYes!!!!! Throw 130 in the trash. Let us all embrace the BoM, Jesus is Heavenly Father.Redpilled Mormon wrote: ↑January 22nd, 2023, 3:22 pm Is this scripture crucial evidence that the ldscorp''s definition of Godhead is wrong?
- SJR3t2
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
JS was not teaching his understanding, if he was it wouldn't be a RESTORATION.JLHPROF wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 3:14 pmVery Trinitarian? Binitarian? Unitarian? Modalist?Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 12:54 pmWhat is the primary definition of one? First it means the same person and second it would mean one in purpose. Mosiah 15 is the best explanation and it does indeed seem to say they are the same person. The will of his spirit overrode the will of the flesh. The son is a reference to flesh. Try imaging reading those verses in Mosiah without preconceived notions and let the text speak for itself.
The Son praying to the Father, I admit at face value, does seem to indicate two people, unless it simply represents us piercing the veil and connecting with our true spirits, our unveiled portion. Many accounts of the spirit world explain that everyone has a portion of their spirit in the spirit world. Many are given this answer when they are perplexed about talking in the spirit to those who are still living.
Joseph went through those phases in his understanding. As evidenced in LoF and other early statements.
Eventually by revelation he arrived at the understanding of three separate personages over this earth, one group in a council of innumerable Gods.
His later teachings show that clearly.
You'll get there too I'm sure.
- marc
- Disciple of Jesus Christ
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- Contact:
Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
If you are referring to our Gregorian calendar, how would you reconcile your claim with the following revelation?
D&C 115:1 Verily thus saith the Lord unto you, my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and also my servant Sidney Rigdon, and also my servant Hyrum Smith, and your counselors who are and shall be appointed hereafter;
2 And also unto you, my servant Edward Partridge, and his counselors;
3 And also unto my faithful servants who are of the high council of my church in Zion, for thus it shall be called, and unto all the elders and people of my Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, scattered abroad in all the world;
4 For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
5 Verily I say unto you all: Arise and shine forth, that thy light may be a standard for the nations;
6 And that the gathering together upon the land of Zion, and upon her stakes, may be for a defense, and for a refuge from the storm, and from wrath when it shall be poured out without mixture upon the whole earth.
7 Let the city, Far West, be a holy and consecrated land unto me; and it shall be called most holy, for the ground upon which thou standest is holy.
8 Therefore, I command you to build a house unto me, for the gathering together of my saints, that they may worship me.
9 And let there be a beginning of this work, and a foundation, and a preparatory work, this following summer;
10 And let the beginning be made on the fourth day of July next; and from that time forth let my people labor diligently to build a house unto my name;
I kinda think the Lord likes Independence Day.
- JLHPROF
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1087
Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
Of course he was. He had new truths and deeper understanding restored line upon line and precept on precept.SJR3t2 wrote: ↑February 1st, 2023, 7:56 amJS was not teaching his understanding, if he was it wouldn't be a RESTORATION.JLHPROF wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 3:14 pmVery Trinitarian? Binitarian? Unitarian? Modalist?Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 12:54 pmWhat is the primary definition of one? First it means the same person and second it would mean one in purpose. Mosiah 15 is the best explanation and it does indeed seem to say they are the same person. The will of his spirit overrode the will of the flesh. The son is a reference to flesh. Try imaging reading those verses in Mosiah without preconceived notions and let the text speak for itself.
The Son praying to the Father, I admit at face value, does seem to indicate two people, unless it simply represents us piercing the veil and connecting with our true spirits, our unveiled portion. Many accounts of the spirit world explain that everyone has a portion of their spirit in the spirit world. Many are given this answer when they are perplexed about talking in the spirit to those who are still living.
Joseph went through those phases in his understanding. As evidenced in LoF and other early statements.
Eventually by revelation he arrived at the understanding of three separate personages over this earth, one group in a council of innumerable Gods.
His later teachings show that clearly.
You'll get there too I'm sure.
It's clear from how his godhead teaching changed and developed. He taught variations in New York, early Kirtland, late Kirtland, Missouri, and Nauvoo.
Either he received false revelation later corrected (unlikely) or like everyone else truth was restored a little at a time and he pondered, prayed, and reasoned on it until more light came.
- Luke
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10820
- Location: England
Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
Joseph taught the same concept spoken of in 130 on numerous other occasions. No doubt you’ll write those quotes off too, though.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 12:22 pmYes!!!!! Throw 130 in the trash. Let us all embrace the BoM, Jesus is Heavenly Father.Redpilled Mormon wrote: ↑January 22nd, 2023, 3:22 pm Is this scripture crucial evidence that the ldscorp''s definition of Godhead is wrong?
You are regressing in knowledge by choosing to go back on revealed truth.
- JLHPROF
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1087
Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?
Stuck in Kirtland era, rejecting truths revealed through Joseph after 1838. Joseph had so much more revealed after his trial in Liberty Jail that was far beyond the early doctrinal understanding in the Church, a lot of which was academic work by Cowdery and Rigdon.Luke wrote: ↑February 1st, 2023, 8:54 amJoseph taught the same concept spoken of in 130 on numerous other occasions. No doubt you’ll write those quotes off too, though.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 12:22 pmYes!!!!! Throw 130 in the trash. Let us all embrace the BoM, Jesus is Heavenly Father.Redpilled Mormon wrote: ↑January 22nd, 2023, 3:22 pm Is this scripture crucial evidence that the ldscorp''s definition of Godhead is wrong?
You are regressing in knowledge by choosing to go back on revealed truth.