Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

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JLHPROF
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by JLHPROF »

SJR3t2 wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 8:58 am
JLHPROF wrote: February 1st, 2023, 8:49 am
SJR3t2 wrote: February 1st, 2023, 7:56 am
JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:14 pm
Very Trinitarian? Binitarian? Unitarian? Modalist?
Joseph went through those phases in his understanding. As evidenced in LoF and other early statements.

Eventually by revelation he arrived at the understanding of three separate personages over this earth, one group in a council of innumerable Gods.
His later teachings show that clearly.
You'll get there too I'm sure. ;)
JS was not teaching his understanding, if he was it wouldn't be a RESTORATION.
Of course he was. He had new truths and deeper understanding restored line upon line and precept on precept.
It's clear from how his godhead teaching changed and developed. He taught variations in New York, early Kirtland, late Kirtland, Missouri, and Nauvoo.

Either he received false revelation later corrected (unlikely) or like everyone else truth was restored a little at a time and he pondered, prayed, and reasoned on it until more light came.
We have a very different understanding of RESTORATION verse trying everything out.
Not a different understanding. I'm just observing what demonstrably happened.
Joseph's teachings changed. It's written on the record for anyone to see.
And the historical records also show the different things being revealed and restored at each point that led to the change in teachings.
You don't have to agree with any specific doctrine, but the progressive change from the Prophet Joseph is there to see.

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TheDuke
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by TheDuke »

cab wrote: January 30th, 2023, 5:56 pm
He receives not the fullness at first but goes on grace by grace until ascending to the Fullness of the Father(s) and His Father. He is the Way revealed unto us and is the eternal Father unto us, or those begotten of Him.
It never says we are begotten of him.............. "unto him" there is a huge difference. We are not his literal offspring.

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JLHPROF
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by JLHPROF »

TheDuke wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 1:29 pm
cab wrote: January 30th, 2023, 5:56 pm
He receives not the fullness at first but goes on grace by grace until ascending to the Fullness of the Father(s) and His Father. He is the Way revealed unto us and is the eternal Father unto us, or those begotten of Him.
It never says we are begotten of him.............. "unto him" there is a huge difference. We are not his literal offspring.
Exactly. We are not Christ's children until we are adopted.
The Father at Adam Ondi Ahman bestows his children on Christ as his heir. And Christ becomes the new Father as explained in the Book of Mormon.

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.


Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

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cab
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by cab »

TheDuke wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 1:29 pm
cab wrote: January 30th, 2023, 5:56 pm
He receives not the fullness at first but goes on grace by grace until ascending to the Fullness of the Father(s) and His Father. He is the Way revealed unto us and is the eternal Father unto us, or those begotten of Him.
It never says we are begotten of him.............. "unto him" there is a huge difference. We are not his literal offspring.
We can if we’re born again

Valo
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by Valo »

cab wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 8:33 pm
TheDuke wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 1:29 pm
cab wrote: January 30th, 2023, 5:56 pm
He receives not the fullness at first but goes on grace by grace until ascending to the Fullness of the Father(s) and His Father. He is the Way revealed unto us and is the eternal Father unto us, or those begotten of Him.
It never says we are begotten of him.............. "unto him" there is a huge difference. We are not his literal offspring.
We can if we’re born again
Adonai wrote: April 17th, 2016, 9:30 pm That is a misconception as I said before even prophets can error. the Father has always been God as has the Son, it was not something we became it is what we always have been and we have always been in the Eternity's, that scripture you quoted is not how it should even be viewed. I am a Son of man now as ye bearing your iniquity and working to become again as I truly am perfect, if ye can do the same by all means do so, but ye can not become as I am for I have performed the atonement. And was perfect in the eternity's before your intelligence even was organised into it awareness just as my Father is I am also.

Mankind those who make it to that Level of the Presence of the Father and Son of the highest Kingdom can be viewed as a God but are not the Godhead itself as in same, they still can be seen at that level as a God but are not the God itself nor can even dethrone the Father. Understand not many will make it to that level they must abide by proper righteousness, be meek and humble, non judging kind and filled in love and goodness, those who can abide by perfection now are worthy to become a God, are giving and share in power of God the Father and Son.

The way you present the doctrine to me, is dangerous to a soul and can lead to destruction for it is the same idea that Lucifer used to lead many away from the premortal existence. Do not think or let it enter into you that God the Father and Son became what they are by living mortal life on earth. the mortal life we lived was our mercy and grace to bring salvation to those by eternal law would be forever damned, it is simply the fulfilling of what God is to bring to pass the Eternal life and happiness of all souls. The atonement was done once by the Father and Son and effects all of eternity this world and universe this point in the eternity's was one of great importance that effects countless worlds of both past and future. This is why all who are saved even those worthy to become Gods, will be forever grateful to the Father and Son.

Mankind do not become as we are not the same not the same in perfect which always was, they can become only what they are capable to be and always were, and none are more perfect than the Father and Son. The doctrines which teach people can become the Godhead is a deception and is the same thinking that caused Lucifer to fall. Mankind becomes heirs does not mean they become as we are, those worth can become lords by being given the same spirit understanding and abiding by same perfect laws and Order, but they cant ever become exactly as the Godhead is such is a misconception. Lucifer did believe he could become the Godhead even greater and such is a form of pride. By aligning with our Spirit of truth the Spirit of Christ and being reborn and gone through the baptism of fire, they can become as we are yet are not as we are in perfectness they can abide by the higher way and will have body of glory of that kingdom, but they can never become the Father and Son themselves not in same way.
...

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SJR3t2
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by SJR3t2 »

Valo wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:28 am
SJR3t2 wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 9:00 am
Valo wrote: February 1st, 2023, 9:41 am
SJR3t2 wrote: February 1st, 2023, 7:53 am

JS translated it into English not YHWH. The 3rd moon of the year is not March.
Right is a work of the Holy Spirit not JS.
March doesn't need to be in order for the message to work and if BND is the intended recipient as JS was the recipient of the BoM message it will have been given in a language best perceived by the recipient who is to receive the message.

...
Did JS translate the BoM as YHWH stated in the D&C?
March = 3, so um, it does ...
Put it simply I don't believe what you are selling.
According to your calendar it fell on 2009-13-3.

...
Did you look it up on my app https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... h.calendar?

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SJR3t2
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by SJR3t2 »

JLHPROF wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 1:08 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 8:58 am
JLHPROF wrote: February 1st, 2023, 8:49 am
SJR3t2 wrote: February 1st, 2023, 7:56 am

JS was not teaching his understanding, if he was it wouldn't be a RESTORATION.
Of course he was. He had new truths and deeper understanding restored line upon line and precept on precept.
It's clear from how his godhead teaching changed and developed. He taught variations in New York, early Kirtland, late Kirtland, Missouri, and Nauvoo.

Either he received false revelation later corrected (unlikely) or like everyone else truth was restored a little at a time and he pondered, prayed, and reasoned on it until more light came.
We have a very different understanding of RESTORATION verse trying everything out.
Not a different understanding. I'm just observing what demonstrably happened.
Joseph's teachings changed. It's written on the record for anyone to see.
And the historical records also show the different things being revealed and restored at each point that led to the change in teachings.
You don't have to agree with any specific doctrine, but the progressive change from the Prophet Joseph is there to see.
JS understanding of the godhead did not change. What happened is that people modified records, and falsified them, and D&C 130 is NOT a revelation, it's a supposed talk that the two scribes disagree on just about everything on what was said including the Godhead. https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/holy-spirit/

YHWH's ways and doctrines ect are eternally the same. I understand you have something that makes sense for you with all the contradictions you see. I get. But these contradictions were prophecied if you ask me in JS last dream. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV80ZsN ... n&index=28

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JLHPROF
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by JLHPROF »

SJR3t2 wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:18 pm
JLHPROF wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 1:08 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 8:58 am
JLHPROF wrote: February 1st, 2023, 8:49 am

Of course he was. He had new truths and deeper understanding restored line upon line and precept on precept.
It's clear from how his godhead teaching changed and developed. He taught variations in New York, early Kirtland, late Kirtland, Missouri, and Nauvoo.

Either he received false revelation later corrected (unlikely) or like everyone else truth was restored a little at a time and he pondered, prayed, and reasoned on it until more light came.
We have a very different understanding of RESTORATION verse trying everything out.
Not a different understanding. I'm just observing what demonstrably happened.
Joseph's teachings changed. It's written on the record for anyone to see.
And the historical records also show the different things being revealed and restored at each point that led to the change in teachings.
You don't have to agree with any specific doctrine, but the progressive change from the Prophet Joseph is there to see.
JS understanding of the godhead did not change. What happened is that people modified records, and falsified them, and D&C 130 is NOT a revelation, it's a supposed talk that the two scribes disagree on just about everything on what was said including the Godhead. https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/holy-spirit/

YHWH's ways and doctrines ect are eternally the same. I understand you have something that makes sense for you with all the contradictions you see. I get. But these contradictions were prophecied if you ask me in JS last dream. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV80ZsN ... n&index=28
Utter nonsense.
Joseph's New York teachings were different from his early Kirtland teachings which differed from late Kirtland then from Missouri and finally Nauvoo. His work on the Book of Abraham alone transformed his theology.

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SJR3t2
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by SJR3t2 »

JLHPROF wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:27 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:18 pm
JLHPROF wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 1:08 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 8:58 am

We have a very different understanding of RESTORATION verse trying everything out.
Not a different understanding. I'm just observing what demonstrably happened.
Joseph's teachings changed. It's written on the record for anyone to see.
And the historical records also show the different things being revealed and restored at each point that led to the change in teachings.
You don't have to agree with any specific doctrine, but the progressive change from the Prophet Joseph is there to see.
JS understanding of the godhead did not change. What happened is that people modified records, and falsified them, and D&C 130 is NOT a revelation, it's a supposed talk that the two scribes disagree on just about everything on what was said including the Godhead. https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/holy-spirit/

YHWH's ways and doctrines ect are eternally the same. I understand you have something that makes sense for you with all the contradictions you see. I get. But these contradictions were prophecied if you ask me in JS last dream. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV80ZsN ... n&index=28
Utter nonsense.
Joseph's New York teachings were different from his early Kirtland teachings which differed from late Kirtland then from Missouri and finally Nauvoo. His work on the Book of Abraham alone transformed his theology.
I understand what people claimed he taught is different. But do you believe the statement from JS that what is not eternal is not from Heaven? JS taught in the lectures on faith if doctrine was changing you couldn't have enough faith to salvation. https://seekingyhwh.org/lectures-on-faith/ If JS doctrine was always contradicting a prev doctrine what is stopping someone from saying YHWH is just doing the same with them?

—How it may be asked was this known to be a bad angel? ... by his contradicting a former revelation.
(Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons 3 [April 1, 1842]: 747)"

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Redpilled Mormon
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by Redpilled Mormon »

JLHPROF wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:27 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:18 pm
JLHPROF wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 1:08 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 8:58 am

We have a very different understanding of RESTORATION verse trying everything out.
Not a different understanding. I'm just observing what demonstrably happened.
Joseph's teachings changed. It's written on the record for anyone to see.
And the historical records also show the different things being revealed and restored at each point that led to the change in teachings.
You don't have to agree with any specific doctrine, but the progressive change from the Prophet Joseph is there to see.
JS understanding of the godhead did not change. What happened is that people modified records, and falsified them, and D&C 130 is NOT a revelation, it's a supposed talk that the two scribes disagree on just about everything on what was said including the Godhead. https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/holy-spirit/

YHWH's ways and doctrines ect are eternally the same. I understand you have something that makes sense for you with all the contradictions you see. I get. But these contradictions were prophecied if you ask me in JS last dream. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV80ZsN ... n&index=28
Utter nonsense.
Joseph's New York teachings were different from his early Kirtland teachings which differed from late Kirtland then from Missouri and finally Nauvoo. His work on the Book of Abraham alone transformed his theology.
And this overrides the Book of Mormon teachings, in your opinion?

Let me spitball a few possibilities of what's going on here...

- Joseph never said/taught the things that contradict the Book of Mormon, it's a later fabrication by the ldscorp
- Joseph is a fallen prophet who decides to go for worldly power and influence after the church is rejected by the Savior, and starts making up new stuff which contradicts the old stuff.
- God is a bit of a bumbler who doesn't keep track of what he said and when, so he just changes the universe and his eternal laws at whim to cover up his goofs.
- The Book of Mormon was never true, Joseph made it up. Nothing Joseph ever said is worth anything.
- The Book of Mormon was never true, Joseph made it up. But God said 'hmm, here's an influencer with tons of views, I'll give him true revelations now so I can get my message out there' and so the later contradictory theology and revelations are true, even though the early ones are bunk.

Hmmm, I'm a bit groggy this morning and my imagination is failing me. Anyone else got any other possibilities?

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Redpilled Mormon wrote: February 4th, 2023, 9:29 am
And this overrides the Book of Mormon teachings, in your opinion?

Let me spitball a few possibilities of what's going on here...

- Joseph never said/taught the things that contradict the Book of Mormon, it's a later fabrication by the ldscorp
- Joseph is a fallen prophet who decides to go for worldly power and influence after the church is rejected by the Savior, and starts making up new stuff which contradicts the old stuff.
- God is a bit of a bumbler who doesn't keep track of what he said and when, so he just changes the universe and his eternal laws at whim to cover up his goofs.
- The Book of Mormon was never true, Joseph made it up. Nothing Joseph ever said is worth anything.
- The Book of Mormon was never true, Joseph made it up. But God said 'hmm, here's an influencer with tons of views, I'll give him true revelations now so I can get my message out there' and so the later contradictory theology and revelations are true, even though the early ones are bunk.

Hmmm, I'm a bit groggy this morning and my imagination is failing me. Anyone else got any other possibilities?
Your many speculations strike near the truth. :?

search.php?keywords=Spirit+&terms=all&a ... mit=Search

The link finds stuff the Spirit said, and is not speculation.❗️

Which do you prefer. :?:

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TheDuke
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by TheDuke »

cab wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 8:33 pm
We can if we’re born again
I think you are just being stubborn to say this. I said we are not literally Jesus' offspring. I accepted the figurative becoming his children by accepting him, perhaps some form of church of firstborn adoption or something. But, if you're saying that when we accept Jesus we are literally born again and are literally his offspring, you don't have a leg to stand on. Even with MMP and truly believing in being literally born again, it has nothing to do with being born of Jesus and his wife.

It is the mixing of these metaphors (literal and physical) that keep causing misunderstanding and speaking past each other. It doesn't help if you don't read what the other person said before answering. Although I admit there are some on here that respond with 45 pages of unrelated scriptures that are are to wade all through at times.

Valo
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by Valo »

SJR3t2 wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:14 pm
Valo wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:28 am
SJR3t2 wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 9:00 am
Valo wrote: February 1st, 2023, 9:41 am

Right is a work of the Holy Spirit not JS.
March doesn't need to be in order for the message to work and if BND is the intended recipient as JS was the recipient of the BoM message it will have been given in a language best perceived by the recipient who is to receive the message.

...
Did JS translate the BoM as YHWH stated in the D&C?
March = 3, so um, it does ...
Put it simply I don't believe what you are selling.
According to your calendar it fell on 2009-13-3.

...
Did you look it up on my app https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... h.calendar?
I did.

...

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cab
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by cab »

TheDuke wrote: February 4th, 2023, 10:23 am
cab wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 8:33 pm
We can if we’re born again
I think you are just being stubborn to say this. I said we are not literally Jesus' offspring. I accepted the figurative becoming his children by accepting him, perhaps some form of church of firstborn adoption or something. But, if you're saying that when we accept Jesus we are literally born again and are literally his offspring, you don't have a leg to stand on. Even with MMP and truly believing in being literally born again, it has nothing to do with being born of Jesus and his wife.

It is the mixing of these metaphors (literal and physical) that keep causing misunderstanding and speaking past each other. It doesn't help if you don't read what the other person said before answering. Although I admit there are some on here that respond with 45 pages of unrelated scriptures that are are to wade all through at times.

When you are born again you literally take his spiritual credentials, traits, and characteristics upon yourself. Spiritual DNA if you will. He becomes your spiritual Father and the giver of all good gifts to you. You take his name upon yourself in the same way you take your earthly father’s name upon you.

Valo
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by Valo »

cab wrote: February 4th, 2023, 2:43 pm
TheDuke wrote: February 4th, 2023, 10:23 am
cab wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 8:33 pm
We can if we’re born again
I think you are just being stubborn to say this. I said we are not literally Jesus' offspring. I accepted the figurative becoming his children by accepting him, perhaps some form of church of firstborn adoption or something. But, if you're saying that when we accept Jesus we are literally born again and are literally his offspring, you don't have a leg to stand on. Even with MMP and truly believing in being literally born again, it has nothing to do with being born of Jesus and his wife.

It is the mixing of these metaphors (literal and physical) that keep causing misunderstanding and speaking past each other. It doesn't help if you don't read what the other person said before answering. Although I admit there are some on here that respond with 45 pages of unrelated scriptures that are are to wade all through at times.

When you are born again you literally take his spiritual credentials, traits, and characteristics upon yourself. Spiritual DNA if you will. He becomes your spiritual Father and the giver of all good gifts to you. You take his name upon yourself in the same way you take your earthly father’s name upon you.
If you are of the seed of Adam then you will have the Christ Seed in you. You must nurish that seed and take care of it so it will grow.

Your DNA will be dissolved and you won't take it with you.

If you identify with the Christ Seed and become One with it then you will rise up in glory and in power during the resurrection and you will literally be born again with a New Body, Incorruptible and Eternal.

...

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SJR3t2
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by SJR3t2 »

Valo wrote: February 4th, 2023, 1:24 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:14 pm
Valo wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:28 am
SJR3t2 wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 9:00 am

Did JS translate the BoM as YHWH stated in the D&C?
March = 3, so um, it does ...
Put it simply I don't believe what you are selling.
According to your calendar it fell on 2009-13-3.

...
Did you look it up on my app https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... h.calendar?
I did.

...
What do you think of it?

Valo
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by Valo »

SJR3t2 wrote: February 4th, 2023, 10:37 pm
Valo wrote: February 4th, 2023, 1:24 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:14 pm
Valo wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:28 am

According to your calendar it fell on 2009-13-3.

...
Did you look it up on my app https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... h.calendar?
I did.

...
What do you think of it?
I left a 5 star rating and a review on Play Store.

...

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SJR3t2
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by SJR3t2 »

Valo wrote: February 4th, 2023, 10:53 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: February 4th, 2023, 10:37 pm
Valo wrote: February 4th, 2023, 1:24 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:14 pm

Did you look it up on my app https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... h.calendar?
I did.

...
What do you think of it?
I left a 5 star rating and a review on Play Store.

...
Thanks so much.

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ransomme
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Re: Yahweh is NOT Jesus?

Post by ransomme »

Peeps wrote: January 22nd, 2023, 9:52 pm [/b]
Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 20th, 2023, 5:15 pm Growing up lds, I always heard that Jesus was the same guy as Yahweh, the God of the old testament. I want to ask where we get this idea from? Although I put very little stock in D&C and the Pearl, still I'm looking for any and all scriptural references that might support this.

I'm having a hard time reconciling the actions of the 'god' of the old testament who seems to me to be lacking in omnipotence, omnicience, basic goodness, kindness, and seems extremely bloodthirsty and evil in many instances, yet somehow this same guy turns into Jesus? It seems weird.

I should also delineate between the God in early Genesis that spoke to Adam and Eve etc (who seems like actual God to me) and the one that was instructing the extermination and genocide right down to hoisting infants on swords and demanding virgin girls for himself. They don't seem like the same guy at all.

I have heard the theory floated that the god in most of the old testament is the same as the 'god' of this world, ie Satan; which I thought was an interesting possibility, though I don't see much to support it.

Anyway I'm hoping someone can give some idea why lds culture presumes Yahweh and Jesus are the same guy.
This is the whole point of Jesus Christ's mission:

Image

LDS culture teaches that giving up our first estate to gain a flesh body is an opportunity, and it is part of the plan of happiness. I believe that is exactly what got us doomed and needing a Savior. If you go back and read the Book of Abraham chapter 3 with fresh eyes, using scripture to prove scripture, it will tell you the "one LIKE unto God" in verse 24 is probably Lucifer, because in Isaiah 14, Lucifer is the one who wanted to be LIKE the Most High. Isaiah 14:

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be LIKE the most High.


Not keeping your first estate is a very bad thing according to the Bible.

Jude 1
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting *chains* under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Chains according to Strong's concordance are "ligaments of the body," which are to be considered an impediment.

We may not be the fallen angels of Genesis chapter 6 which the verse is referring to (who took the daughters of men to wife and beget the giants that caused the flood), but we surely did not keep our first estate either, otherwise, we would not now be facing death, and we would still be in Heaven with the Father. We are like the youngest son in the prodigal son parable, Jesus Christ was like the "fatted calf," and the fallen angels are the jealous older son. So continuing the preexistence story of the Grand Council of the Heavens in Abraham 3. From one of my previous posts:
I have also been mulling over and ruminating on some things, some things you have sparked, like the those things written in the Pearl of Great Price, particularly the Book of Abraham, and Ezekiel 28 where it says satan/Lucifer walked in the midst of the stones of fire on the Holy mountain of God. I believe those stones of fire were us, when we were the "gnolaum," and that is where, and when, we were deceived into taking flesh bodies.

I was ready to dismiss everything in the Pearl of Great Price, but then I decided to examine it more closely, because of our discussions on other threads, and knowing that even Lucifer will give a person "enlightenment" --but it is like the partial truth he told Eve, for she did become wise, but she did surely die.

The Genesis chapter 1, or Abraham chapter 4 gods/ or the "elohim," are IMO, the rebellious third host of heaven led by the drag "queen of heaven," Lucifer/satan. Abraham chapter 3 tells us how in the preexistence we forfeited our first estate because Lucifer, described as the "one like unto God" in verse 24 (Isaiah 14 says Lucifer wanted to be like the Most High), said we would get glory added unto us forever and ever by choosing to go for a second estate in verse 26.

But this was the trap that got us taken into captivity to the lowest parts of the earth, as it is says in Psalm 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. And Jude 1:15 has a stern warning for those who leave their first estate, those everlasting "chains" under darkness are the "ligaments of the body" according to Strong's concordance, and to be considered an impediment of what we are supposed to be. I guess it is like we have been paralyzed from the neck down, but we don't know it. We are supposed to be beings of light, yet we cast a shadow. We all fell before Adam and Eve, they just went into mortality first. Psalm 104:4 says this about God, Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire, but we wanted to have flesh bodies which cannot dwell in the presence of the Father.

Fortunately, in verse 27 of Abraham 3, the one "like the Son of Man" was sent to pay for this mistake of ours. The decision to take on a flesh body was the original forbidden fruit. D&C section 130 is wrong about the Father having a body of flesh and bones, He is a Spirit. Lectures on Faith 5.2 says the Father is a Personage of Spirit. The Book of Mormon says He is the "Great Spirit." Jesus told the Samaritan woman at the well, the Father is a Spirit, and is looking for those to worship Him in Spirit and truth.

The rebellious third is one of the reasons that the number 33 is revered by the occult. These elohim are the "adam/gods" of the LDS, though this knowledge has been "hidden" from the plebs-LDS, because that is what the very word occult means, hidden. The "enlightenment" of Lucifer being "god" is only for the higher levels like Master Masons/Master Mahons, though this is being exposed more and more everyday, because it is almost at the end of this world. And Daniel 12:4 says: But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

These elohim are who the LORD God of Israel was at war with during the Exodus. They created themselves, and they were gods to themselves. Reading about origins of the Egyptian pantheon shows this. Joseph Smith was so obsessed with Egypt, that he purchased Egyptian papyri from a traveling salesman. The "translations" were likely from some copies of Masonic sacred texts, which have been kept by the bloodline/hybrid families, who trace their origins back to Cain, who married into them when he went to the land of Nod...
I believe the "blood thirsty" aspect of the OT God was because He was ensuring Jesus Christ could be born in a pure bloodline that would qualify Him to be our kinsman Redeemer (No Nephilim bloodlines allowed!), as described in Leviticus 25:

47 And if a sojourner or stranger wax rich by thee, and thy brother that dwelleth by him wax poor, and sell himself unto the stranger or sojourner by thee, or to the stock of the stranger's family:

48 After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him:

49 Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself.

50 And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubile: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him.


We had been sold into slavery to sin since the fall of Adam and Eve, it is already sown into our flesh to desire to do evil at birth. Atonement for sin done in flesh bodies must be paid in blood according to the carnal commandments. Leviticus 17:

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

I found this from:

https://bible.org/seriespage/7-promised ... rfect-plan

..Left to his own devices, man would quickly destroy himself. But for the grace of God, long ago man would have been removed from the face of the earth because of his sin. Yet mankind has been preserved, awaiting the salvation promised long ago in the Garden of Eden, when God said to the serpent,

I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel” (Genesis 3:15).

Satan successfully brought a curse upon Adam and Eve and all of their offspring. Nevertheless, God promised that from the seed of the woman would come One who would bring about man’s deliverance and Satan’s destruction. That “seed” was our Lord Jesus Christ. His death on Calvary defeated Satan and fully accomplished the salvation of all who would believe in the Savior...

With Seth came new hope, but in only two chapters away (Genesis 6) mankind is already in a mess. Things became so bad that God determined to wipe out both mankind and the animal kingdom with a flood:

Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. And the LORD said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.” But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD (Genesis 6:1-8)....


These Nephilim tribes were listed in the Bible as being many clans. From: https://jaminbradley.com/2019/07/03/the ... the-bible/

...Likewise, we’re also surprised when our eyes are opened to see the giants present after the flood. This is clearly seen in Numbers 13 when Moses sends spies into the land of Canaan and they return with a report of having seen giants.

…”The land, through which we have gone to spy it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people that we saw in it are of great height. And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.” (Numbers 13:32-33)

What’s interesting to note here is that the Nephilim that these spies saw went by another name: the sons of Anak—known elsewhere in the Bible as the Anakim. This is important to note, because we typically have nothing in mind when we read the names of people groups in the Bible and so we don’t stop and imagine them in detail. But here we learn that whenever we see the word Nephilim or Anakim in the Bible, we should now be thinking of the descendants of the giants of Genesis 6.

Yes, the giants have now been around long enough to take on different names. In this case, a giant named Anak has gained enough attention that his giant descendants are now a people group known as the Anakim. But other names for the giants will come about as well, because different nations had different names for the Nephilim. For example, Deuteronomy 2 tells us that there are other groups of giants who are known by other nations as the Emim, the Rephaim, and the Zamzummim.

We also see the Amorites described by the prophet Amos as having the height of cedars, showing us that some of the Amorites were also known as giants. However, we know that not all the Amorites were giants because of the fuller picture the Bible paints of them. In a similar way, the Bible also seems to relate to us that a few giants were dispersed throughout the human clans of the Amalekites, Hittites, Jebusites, Canaanites, and Philistines.

And so now our list of giant clans has grown to the Nephilim, the Anakim, the Emim, the Rephaim, and the Zamzummim. We also expect to see a few of the giants living amidst the Amorites, the Amalekites, the Hittites, the Jebusites, the Canaanites, and the Philistines. They are everywhere.

It’s strange that we should miss all of this, because these giants are standing right in Israel’s way; for they inhabit the land that God promised that His people would move into. And perhaps with this in mind, we might speculate that God specifically sent Israel to this land so that they would finish the job of what the flood was partially meant to do: Get rid of the giants. In fact, a very close reading of the Bible seems to relay that if there were no giants in specific parts of the promised land, then the inhabitants could be simply driven out and not necessarily killed in war. Yes, believe it or not, it seems possible that the the holy wars :oops: 3 of the Old Testament were set in place to eradicate the rebellious giants....


Anak was probably the root source for the Annunaki, that the History channel's "Ancient Aliens" talks about.

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Stephen gave a compelling testimony in Acts 6-7 against the ruling class of Jews whilst he was being stoned:

Acts 6:
8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.

10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.

11 Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.

12 And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,

13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:

14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.

15 And all that sat in the council, looking stedfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.

Chapter 7:

...31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,
32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.

33 Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.

34 I have seen, I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send thee into Egypt.

35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.

36 He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.

37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,

40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

41 And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

42 Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?

43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.


44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.

45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.

47 But Solomon built him an house.

48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.


So that is an eye opening testimony of Stephen, that they had went had went wrong way back in Exodus while Moses was still leading them. In Exodus 23, it says:

20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images


This angel seems to be the one that was very strict, and was not gonna play games with a stiff neck people.

In Isaiah God also testifies against the people's form of worship in chapter 1:

8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

10 Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.


16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

So something is up with that. But keeping in mind that Satan/Lucifer was, and is, always trying to usurp and replace Jesus Christ even until the very end by bringing the Antichrist to power, so perhaps the Yahweh thing was another attempt of him projecting like he always does, making himself be the hero and Jesus Christ the zero, when it is really the other way around. Like twisting the Garden of Eden story into a scenario of an evil, tyrannical God that was keeping Adam and Eve as prisoners, until he came along as a Prometheus type, and set them at "liberty"... Yahweh is supposedly a name of diety Canaanite diety too.


One clarification about 2 Corinthians 5:21
Jesus was a sin offering, the sins went to the scapegoat...

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