The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
The idea that a prophet could "never lead you astray" permeates almost all facets of church culture. It wasn't until I read JST Mark 9 for myself, that I realized that pronouncement directly contradicts the teachings of Jesus Christ. And guess what, the church knows that it does. Don't believe me? I put together this short essay that shows the deception of the church through their own omission:
https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/hand-foot-eye
https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/hand-foot-eye
- Attachments
-
- intro-Hand-Foot-Eye.jpg (22.68 KiB) Viewed 614 times
Last edited by Reluctant Watchman on January 19th, 2023, 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
Here's a screenshot for the sake of posterity.
- Attachments
-
- JST-Mark9-lds.org.jpg (72.55 KiB) Viewed 602 times
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
I wonder how Christ would counsel you to "discontinue associations."
- Rumpelstiltskin
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1085
- Location: A galaxy far, far away
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
Your essay was very well written.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 7:11 am The idea that a prophet could "never lead you astray" permeates almost all facets of church culture. It wasn't until I read JST Mark 9 for myself, that I realized that pronouncement directly contradicts the teachings of Jesus Christ. And guess what, the church knows that it does. Don't believe me? I put together this short essay that shows the deception of the church through their own omission:
https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/hand-foot-eye
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
I realized I said "short essay" in the OP... I'm not sure how short that was... but I felt adding some clarifying detail and invitation was important.
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
From my morning studies. This adds clarity to that fact that not just family, society, or prophets can lead us astray, but our own vain ambitions and false perceptions:
35) Behold, Laman and Lemuel received not of the Peacemaker in their day because they sought not His face nor His will. Had they but come unto the Peacemaker and sought Him diligently, as Nephi their younger brother had, He surely would have given them the same clarity in vision as Nephi received.
36) So must it be for you. Lean not unto your own understanding, for it will surely direct you, but you shall fall short of the mark. Neither lean unto the understanding of men, for they will take pleasure in leading you into paths that profit them.
37) You must lean upon the Peacemaker for understanding. For, even the Prophets may lead men astray betimes, when such men will not seek the revelations of the Creator.
35) Behold, Laman and Lemuel received not of the Peacemaker in their day because they sought not His face nor His will. Had they but come unto the Peacemaker and sought Him diligently, as Nephi their younger brother had, He surely would have given them the same clarity in vision as Nephi received.
36) So must it be for you. Lean not unto your own understanding, for it will surely direct you, but you shall fall short of the mark. Neither lean unto the understanding of men, for they will take pleasure in leading you into paths that profit them.
37) You must lean upon the Peacemaker for understanding. For, even the Prophets may lead men astray betimes, when such men will not seek the revelations of the Creator.
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
As I’ve chatted with people about this subject, I think one of the best ways I could look at it is from the perspective of Samuel the Lamanite. But with one small caveat. During his day, there actually were prophets in the true sense of the word. They prophesied, they visited with angels and some were even taught by the Savior. We, on the other hand, are most likely dealing with the type referenced in Isaiah, Jeremiah, and various parts of the NT and BoM:
39) And in this thing did the Peacemaker teach us all a great lesson. It is true that the Peacemaker does call out Prophets from among the people. But, let not any people begin in the belief that the calling out makes a man not a man.
40) The Prophet of the Peacemaker is given great gifts of the Holy Ghost. Yea, he may speak with the tongues of Angels and with them, and, if he has the gift of the seer, he may translate strange languages.
41) And behold, the Prophet leads and guides the people in the will and work of the Peacemaker also. But, know this all you who read these things and ponder them in your hearts, the Prophet is fallible.
42) He is not perfect, and his counsels are not perfect. And, though we count ourselves blessed because the Peacemaker does see fit to call and raise up unto us His Prophets, it is because He does this that we feel constrained to subject all things unto the confirmation of the Holy Ghost, howbeit even the words of a Prophet.
43) Behold, the Peacemaker has spoken it: Thou shalt make no other gods before me. Wherefore, make not gods of your Prophets! For they will be false gods and idols.
44) For, even if they be called of the Peacemaker and appointed, yea, even if they be anointed by the very finger of the Peacemaker, they are yet simple men and you will have made unto yourselves gods that shall fall.
(Samuel the Lamanite, Nemenhah Records, 1st Edition, p.133)
39) And in this thing did the Peacemaker teach us all a great lesson. It is true that the Peacemaker does call out Prophets from among the people. But, let not any people begin in the belief that the calling out makes a man not a man.
40) The Prophet of the Peacemaker is given great gifts of the Holy Ghost. Yea, he may speak with the tongues of Angels and with them, and, if he has the gift of the seer, he may translate strange languages.
41) And behold, the Prophet leads and guides the people in the will and work of the Peacemaker also. But, know this all you who read these things and ponder them in your hearts, the Prophet is fallible.
42) He is not perfect, and his counsels are not perfect. And, though we count ourselves blessed because the Peacemaker does see fit to call and raise up unto us His Prophets, it is because He does this that we feel constrained to subject all things unto the confirmation of the Holy Ghost, howbeit even the words of a Prophet.
43) Behold, the Peacemaker has spoken it: Thou shalt make no other gods before me. Wherefore, make not gods of your Prophets! For they will be false gods and idols.
44) For, even if they be called of the Peacemaker and appointed, yea, even if they be anointed by the very finger of the Peacemaker, they are yet simple men and you will have made unto yourselves gods that shall fall.
(Samuel the Lamanite, Nemenhah Records, 1st Edition, p.133)
- Cruiserdude
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5361
- Location: SEKS
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
Yes, we can be our own worst enemy.....Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 20th, 2023, 6:22 am From my morning studies. This adds clarity to that fact that not just family, society, or prophets can lead us astray, but our own vain ambitions and false perceptions:
35) Behold, Laman and Lemuel received not of the Peacemaker in their day because they sought not His face nor His will. Had they but come unto the Peacemaker and sought Him diligently, as Nephi their younger brother had, He surely would have given them the same clarity in vision as Nephi received.
36) So must it be for you. Lean not unto your own understanding, for it will surely direct you, but you shall fall short of the mark. Neither lean unto the understanding of men, for they will take pleasure in leading you into paths that profit them.
37) You must lean upon the Peacemaker for understanding. For, even the Prophets may lead men astray betimes, when such men will not seek the revelations of the Creator.
Critical phrasing in verse 37....We can all know when men called to lead seek after God and His inspiration. The only way through is to call upon the Lord and follow His impressions.
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
I would also say that in addition to men, we have made inanimate constructs infallible, keys and priesthoods come to mind.
- Niemand
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 13999
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
I think that interpretation is valid, however, like many other scriptures I also think it is multifaceted.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 7:11 am The idea that a prophet could "never lead you astray" permeates almost all facets of church culture. It wasn't until I read JST Mark 9 for myself, that I realized that pronouncement directly contradicts the teachings of Jesus Christ. And guess what, the church knows that it does. Don't believe me? I put together this short essay that shows the deception of the church through their own omission:
https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/hand-foot-eye
The most basic interpretation would be:
The hand is what you do.
The foot is where you go.
The eye is what you long for.
And there are others. Yours does make some sense.
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
I agree that there are other scriptures that cause us to look inward. The first time Nephi exclaims “Oh wretched man that I am.” And then stating that he will not place his trust in the arm of flesh. I believe he included himself, as well as any other mortal.Niemand wrote: ↑January 22nd, 2023, 4:50 pmI think that interpretation is valid, however, like many other scriptures I also think it is multifaceted.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 7:11 am The idea that a prophet could "never lead you astray" permeates almost all facets of church culture. It wasn't until I read JST Mark 9 for myself, that I realized that pronouncement directly contradicts the teachings of Jesus Christ. And guess what, the church knows that it does. Don't believe me? I put together this short essay that shows the deception of the church through their own omission:
https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/hand-foot-eye
The most basic interpretation would be:
The hand is what you do.
The foot is where you go.
The eye is what you long for.
And there are others. Yours does make some sense.
But, for the sake of JST Mark 9, the hand, foot, and eye are very clearly spelled out. They are not elements of self-reflection.
- Shawn Henry
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4509
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
When the English is super plain, the text needs no interpretation.Niemand wrote: ↑January 22nd, 2023, 4:50 pmI think that interpretation is valid, however, like many other scriptures I also think it is multifaceted.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 7:11 am The idea that a prophet could "never lead you astray" permeates almost all facets of church culture. It wasn't until I read JST Mark 9 for myself, that I realized that pronouncement directly contradicts the teachings of Jesus Christ. And guess what, the church knows that it does. Don't believe me? I put together this short essay that shows the deception of the church through their own omission:
https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/hand-foot-eye
The most basic interpretation would be:
The hand is what you do.
The foot is where you go.
The eye is what you long for.
And there are others. Yours does make some sense.
"And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out."
The person appointed to watch over you is clearly referring to one's spiritual leader.
- BeNotDeceived
- Agent38
- Posts: 8960
- Location: Tralfamadore
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 7:15 am Here's a screenshot for the sake of posterity.
Seeing an actual sample makes it plain how simple it would of been to include the eye.
Simply replace “hand or foot” with “hand, foot or eye”.
Joseph was told “not to pretend to any other gift”.
Casting doubt on anything other than the Book of Mormon.
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
In case this one idea was lost to anyone in reading the essay. The most well-known instance of the "cannot lead astray" precept is Wilford Woodruff's commentary in the Official Declaration. When he presented this, it was quickly followed up with the idea that the Lord would remove him otherwise. This parable not only strikes down the initial doctrine as false but also that the responsibility of what happens after the transgression and leading astray occurs falls upon the individual to separate themselves, the Lord doesn't say that he'll remove the PSR.
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
I really wish we could teach this in LDS Primary classes:
87) Behold, the man who does receive a revelation from a man, angel, spirit, or even God Himself, but denies the right of the people to seek independent confirmation of the same, is just as likely to lead the people into folly as any other. It is the confirmation of the Holy Ghost that is the only just relief from the faults and frailties to which we are subject. Surely, we have not all things before us, but the Holy Ghost does. Wherefore, He is to be relied upon with confidence.
88) Behold, I do question everything and everyone. Do not suggest to me that this thing that the Peacemaker Himself did teach my ancestors is a thing of no value today. You say that you have a Prophet in your city, I am well. You say that the only way to please the Peacemaker is to please this Prophet and I am no longer well, for I put all such to the test.
89) And behold, I sit at the feet of the Prophets and listen to their voice, and I am well. But let the Prophets stray from that which the Holy Ghost would write upon the record of my being, and I am no longer well. I will cease to sit at their feet and hear their words. Do not suggest that I am apostate because I will not pass over this fault in them. Do not put the Peacemaker’s pleasure in connection with such dallying. I have the Way and I do know my Maker.
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
I’m look further into this idea of where (in whom) the Lord has invited us to place our trust. I found this quote from Eyring about placing our trust in church leaders:
“The Father revealed to us that He lives, that Jesus Christ is His Beloved Son, and that He loved us enough to send that Son to save us. And because I have a testimony that He called that boy as a prophet, I trust His apostles and prophets today and those they call to serve God.
You show your trust in God when you listen with the intent to learn and repent and then you go and do whatever He asks. If you trust God enough to listen for His messages of encouragement, correction, and direction from His servants, you will find them. And if you then go and do what He would have you do, your power to trust Him will grow, and in time you will be overwhelmed with gratitude to find that He has come to trust you.”
This is a partial truth. Just because Joseph had prophetic ability has nothing to do with subsequent church leaders and trusting anything they say.
“The Father revealed to us that He lives, that Jesus Christ is His Beloved Son, and that He loved us enough to send that Son to save us. And because I have a testimony that He called that boy as a prophet, I trust His apostles and prophets today and those they call to serve God.
You show your trust in God when you listen with the intent to learn and repent and then you go and do whatever He asks. If you trust God enough to listen for His messages of encouragement, correction, and direction from His servants, you will find them. And if you then go and do what He would have you do, your power to trust Him will grow, and in time you will be overwhelmed with gratitude to find that He has come to trust you.”
This is a partial truth. Just because Joseph had prophetic ability has nothing to do with subsequent church leaders and trusting anything they say.
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
Another one from Eyring. Does the Lord ever place people in “positions of trust”?
“ For instance, it takes faith to believe that the resurrected Lord is watching over the daily details of His kingdom. It takes faith to believe that He calls imperfect people into positions of trust. It takes faith to believe that He knows the people He calls perfectly, both their capacities and their potential, and so makes no mistakes in His calls.”
“ For instance, it takes faith to believe that the resurrected Lord is watching over the daily details of His kingdom. It takes faith to believe that He calls imperfect people into positions of trust. It takes faith to believe that He knows the people He calls perfectly, both their capacities and their potential, and so makes no mistakes in His calls.”
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
Wow… from the same talk:
“ For a leader to succeed in the Lord’s work, the people’s trust that he is called of God must override their view of his infirmities and mortal weaknesses.”
“ There is a thread that binds us to the Lord in our service. It runs from wherever we are called to serve in the kingdom, up through those called to preside over us in the priesthood, and to the prophet, who is bound to the Lord. It takes faith and humility to serve in the place to which we are called, to trust that the Lord called us and those who preside over us, and to sustain them with full faith.”
What did Christ teach?
“44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.
45 Seek unto my Father, and it shall be done in that very moment what ye shall ask, if ye ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive.”
“ For a leader to succeed in the Lord’s work, the people’s trust that he is called of God must override their view of his infirmities and mortal weaknesses.”
“ There is a thread that binds us to the Lord in our service. It runs from wherever we are called to serve in the kingdom, up through those called to preside over us in the priesthood, and to the prophet, who is bound to the Lord. It takes faith and humility to serve in the place to which we are called, to trust that the Lord called us and those who preside over us, and to sustain them with full faith.”
What did Christ teach?
“44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.
45 Seek unto my Father, and it shall be done in that very moment what ye shall ask, if ye ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive.”
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
Another one from Elder Ellis: “He Trusts Us!”
“ Brethren, think of what the Lord has given us—His power and authority! The power and authority to act for Him in all things pertaining to His work!
With this priesthood power and, when necessary, the authorization of those with appropriate keys, we can perform the ordinances of salvation in His name: baptize for the remission of sins, confirm and confer the Holy Ghost, confer the priesthood and ordain others to priesthood offices, and perform temple ordinances. In His name we can administer His Church. In His name we can bless, home teach, and even heal the sick.
What a trust the Lord has placed in us! Think of it, brethren. He trusts us!”
“ The Lord is careful with His priesthood. To exercise His power and authority is a sacred trust.
How wonderful that we have earned the trust of God! He trusts you! He trusts me!”
“ Brethren, think of what the Lord has given us—His power and authority! The power and authority to act for Him in all things pertaining to His work!
With this priesthood power and, when necessary, the authorization of those with appropriate keys, we can perform the ordinances of salvation in His name: baptize for the remission of sins, confirm and confer the Holy Ghost, confer the priesthood and ordain others to priesthood offices, and perform temple ordinances. In His name we can administer His Church. In His name we can bless, home teach, and even heal the sick.
What a trust the Lord has placed in us! Think of it, brethren. He trusts us!”
“ The Lord is careful with His priesthood. To exercise His power and authority is a sacred trust.
How wonderful that we have earned the trust of God! He trusts you! He trusts me!”
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
Preach My Gospel:
“ You are confident that you can do whatever the Lord requires of you if you rely on Him. You are also willing to trust His chosen servants and follow their counsel.”
“ The opposite of humility is pride, which is condemned in the scriptures. To be prideful means to put greater trust in oneself than in God or in His servants.”
Remember, don’t trust your own personal revelation if it contradicts church leaders. You are being prideful. SMH.
“ You are confident that you can do whatever the Lord requires of you if you rely on Him. You are also willing to trust His chosen servants and follow their counsel.”
“ The opposite of humility is pride, which is condemned in the scriptures. To be prideful means to put greater trust in oneself than in God or in His servants.”
Remember, don’t trust your own personal revelation if it contradicts church leaders. You are being prideful. SMH.
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
Eyring: “Act in all diligence”
“This is the Lord’s Church. He called us and trusted us even in the weaknesses He knew we had.”
Where do we place our trust. Whom does the Lord trust?
“This is the Lord’s Church. He called us and trusted us even in the weaknesses He knew we had.”
Where do we place our trust. Whom does the Lord trust?
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
From the 2023 Seminary Student Manual. This is ultimately talking about trust in the Lord, but it’s really hard to tell because of the example they are giving. When the church teaches that Nelson speaks for the Lord, they are also telling you to trust church leaders:
Who do you trust?
Consider bringing an item of delicious food to class and offering it to a student who is willing to commit to eating it before knowing what the food is. Choose a volunteer. Before showing the food to the student, ask why he or she trusts you enough to accept it before knowing what it is.
Is it possible to trust someone enough to commit to do anything they might ask you to do?
What would you have to know about that person to be willing to make such a commitment?
Who do you trust?
Consider bringing an item of delicious food to class and offering it to a student who is willing to commit to eating it before knowing what the food is. Choose a volunteer. Before showing the food to the student, ask why he or she trusts you enough to accept it before knowing what it is.
Is it possible to trust someone enough to commit to do anything they might ask you to do?
What would you have to know about that person to be willing to make such a commitment?
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
Eyring, “The Power of Sustaining Faith”
“Early in your priesthood experience, each sustaining was a simple event of trusting a servant of God. Now, many of you have moved up to a place where to sustain requires more.”
“Early in your priesthood experience, each sustaining was a simple event of trusting a servant of God. Now, many of you have moved up to a place where to sustain requires more.”
- Silver Pie
- seeker after Christ
- Posts: 8989
- Location: In the state that doesn't exist
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
The part you left out was, "Then, after the student eats it, tell the students that you put dog poop in it."Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑January 29th, 2023, 3:33 pm Consider bringing an item of delicious food to class and offering it to a student who is willing to commit to eating it before knowing what the food is. Choose a volunteer. Before showing the food to the student, ask why he or she trusts you enough to accept it before knowing what it is.
Is it possible to trust someone enough to commit to do anything they might ask you to do?
What would you have to know about that person to be willing to make such a commitment?
I mean, if the analogy is to trust the LDS leaders who seek after the praise of the world, power, and wealth.
And who get great wealth upon the backs of the poor and of the unwitting believers.
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 15312
- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
- Contact:
Re: The parable of the hand, foot, and eye. Intentional deception through omission.
Every once in a while I’ll check the analytics for my website. It kind of surprised me, but someone in the city where I live was reading this essay at 2 am. I can’t help but wonder if they were having a case of insomnia and needed some theological sleeping pills, or what, but that’s a strange time to be reading an essay on JST Mark 9.
Speaking of analytics, if people aren’t aware, every website you visit tracks all sorts of data about you. And I do see the occasional visit to the site where the user has a VPN to cover their tracks, but it’s been interesting to see where people come from.
7,804 unique visitors
29,000 page views
58 countries
92% US, 3.18% Canada, 1% UK
70/30 mobile vs desktop users
Speaking of analytics, if people aren’t aware, every website you visit tracks all sorts of data about you. And I do see the occasional visit to the site where the user has a VPN to cover their tracks, but it’s been interesting to see where people come from.
7,804 unique visitors
29,000 page views
58 countries
92% US, 3.18% Canada, 1% UK
70/30 mobile vs desktop users