Torah is still Valid

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.
Post Reply

User avatar
Thinker
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11321
Location: The Universe - wherever that is.

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by Thinker »

In Judaism,
“ 1.The Talmud is the most vital manuscript of conventional Judaism.
2.The Talmud is the basic tool for learning the ethics behind the customs of Judaism.”


The Talmud is considered the lens by which the Torah is interpreted.

Quotes from the Jewish Talmud: (Note that ‘goy’ is anyone not Jewish)

“If a ‘goy’ (Gentile) hits a Jew he must be killed.” (Sanhedrin 58b)
* “If a Jew finds an object lost by a ‘goy’ it does not have to be returned.” (Baba Mezia 24a)
* “If a Jew murders a ‘goy’ there will be no death penalty.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
* What a Jew steals from a ‘goy’ he may keep.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
* “Jews may use subterfuges to circumvent a ‘goy.’” (Baba Kamma 113a)
* “All children of the ‘goyim’ (Gentiles) are animals.” (Yebamoth 98a)

“The ‘goyim’ are not humans. They are beasts.” (Baba Mezia 114b)
* “If you eat with a ‘goy’ it is the same as eating with a dog.” (Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b)
* “Even the best of the ‘goyim’ should all be killed.” (Soferim 15)


Now you can check off your daily scripture reading. ;)

User avatar
CaptainM
captain of 100
Posts: 181
Location: Southwest Missouri

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by CaptainM »

Attachments
Screenshot 2023-01-19 at 11.44.37 AM.jpg
Screenshot 2023-01-19 at 11.44.37 AM.jpg (789.45 KiB) Viewed 543 times
Screenshot 2023-01-19 at 11.44.37 AM.jpg
Screenshot 2023-01-19 at 11.44.37 AM.jpg (789.45 KiB) Viewed 543 times

User avatar
Shawn Henry
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2086

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by Shawn Henry »

Isn't it funny how the Jews give priority to the Talmud and let it twist the biblical meaning of the Torah and latter-day Israel professes a belief in Joseph's original scriptures, but let's the 1876 additions pervert the originals.

30 Therefore there was a law given them, yea, a law of performances and of ordinances, a law which they were to observe strictly from day to day, to keep them in remembrance of God and their duty towards him.

31 But behold, I say unto you, that all these things were types of things to come.

"Types of things to come"? You mean, like a latter-day repeat of placing the Talmud (1876 D&C) above the Torah (1844 D&C).

User avatar
CaptainM
captain of 100
Posts: 181
Location: Southwest Missouri

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by CaptainM »

Seems like there are satanic Jewish shills creeping into the forum to use the power of satan:
…the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell. (2 Nephi 28)

Some appear as intellectuals, some as staunch Christians, and some outright haters of Christ. Satan ALWAYS sets up counterfeits.

We must hold fast to the words of Christ: all of them (not those posing as such from BY and RLDS).

User avatar
nightlight
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7228

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by nightlight »

So you still practice the laws of Moses?

Or are you just holding up the Jew flag pretending Jesus isn't the God of the Old Testament?

User avatar
TheChristian
captain of 100
Posts: 398

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by TheChristian »

Paul said...

All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

User avatar
nightlight
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7228

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by nightlight »

That is something I have noticed.... Everybody who tries to incorporate the old law into to the high law (closet Jews/old wine into new bottle) also believe Jesus isn't the God of the Old Testament

abijah
troll with a purpose
Posts: 2139

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by abijah »

Thinker wrote: January 19th, 2023, 9:56 am In Judaism,
“ 1.The Talmud is the most vital manuscript of conventional Judaism.
2.The Talmud is the basic tool for learning the ethics behind the customs of Judaism.”


The Talmud is considered the lens by which the Torah is interpreted.

Quotes from the Jewish Talmud: (Note that ‘goy’ is anyone not Jewish)

“If a ‘goy’ (Gentile) hits a Jew he must be killed.” (Sanhedrin 58b)
* “If a Jew finds an object lost by a ‘goy’ it does not have to be returned.” (Baba Mezia 24a)
* “If a Jew murders a ‘goy’ there will be no death penalty.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
* What a Jew steals from a ‘goy’ he may keep.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
* “Jews may use subterfuges to circumvent a ‘goy.’” (Baba Kamma 113a)
* “All children of the ‘goyim’ (Gentiles) are animals.” (Yebamoth 98a)

“The ‘goyim’ are not humans. They are beasts.” (Baba Mezia 114b)
* “If you eat with a ‘goy’ it is the same as eating with a dog.” (Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b)
* “Even the best of the ‘goyim’ should all be killed.” (Soferim 15)


Now you can check off your daily scripture reading. ;)
Talmud ≠ Torah tho

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9319

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by Niemand »

The Talmud is so vast that few Jews have ever read it, and no one can memorise it all.

The bits I have read vary a lot. There are some parts of the Talmud which contain worthwhile and maybe even godly teachings, while others are plain blasphemous. The main fault thst the Talmud has is that it promotes Pharasaical interpretations of the Torah.

User avatar
harakim
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2628
Location: Salt Lake Megalopolis

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by harakim »

I still think the Torah may be in place for Jews (all Israelites), although I am reconsidering after a discussion in another thread. However, it never applied to non-Israelites. I do think you can learn from following the Torah's laws, but I also think you can learn from most difficult or unusual lifestyles. This lifestyle was specifically designed as a contrast to Babylon so it will likely provide more avenues of growth for people than one taken at random (since most people live a Babylon-influenced lifestyle). If you feel like you should try it, then do, and also be sure you don't forget the weightier matters of the law. (There is no temple so I don't know if you could fulfill the sacrifices portion anyway which I have heard makes up the majority.)

I guess what I'm saying is for gentiles, the law is not required. You will get benefits because of the contrast, just like any other activity and you will get benefits from trying to do the right thing, just like anything you try, but I don't think it will offer any unique or spiritual benefits.

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1144
Contact:

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by SJR3t2 »

Thinker wrote: January 19th, 2023, 9:56 am In Judaism,
“ 1.The Talmud is the most vital manuscript of conventional Judaism.
2.The Talmud is the basic tool for learning the ethics behind the customs of Judaism.”


The Talmud is considered the lens by which the Torah is interpreted.

Quotes from the Jewish Talmud: (Note that ‘goy’ is anyone not Jewish)

“If a ‘goy’ (Gentile) hits a Jew he must be killed.” (Sanhedrin 58b)
* “If a Jew finds an object lost by a ‘goy’ it does not have to be returned.” (Baba Mezia 24a)
* “If a Jew murders a ‘goy’ there will be no death penalty.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
* What a Jew steals from a ‘goy’ he may keep.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
* “Jews may use subterfuges to circumvent a ‘goy.’” (Baba Kamma 113a)
* “All children of the ‘goyim’ (Gentiles) are animals.” (Yebamoth 98a)

“The ‘goyim’ are not humans. They are beasts.” (Baba Mezia 114b)
* “If you eat with a ‘goy’ it is the same as eating with a dog.” (Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b)
* “Even the best of the ‘goyim’ should all be killed.” (Soferim 15)


Now you can check off your daily scripture reading. ;)
Talmud is oral law aka false traditions of men, which Yeshua spoke against in the NT, and stated they make Torah null and void. Torah is the written law from YHWH.

Alma (LDS 37:20) (RLDS 17:51) Therefore I command you, my son Helaman, that ye be diligent in fulfilling all my words, and that ye be DILIGENT in KEEPING the COMMANDMETNS of GOD [ELOHIM] AS THEY ARE WRITTEN.

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1144
Contact:

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by SJR3t2 »

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his [Paul] epistles, speaking in them of these things; IN WHICH ARE SOME THINGS HARD TO BE UNDERSTOOD, which they that are UNLEARNED and UNSTABLE wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.

https://www.119ministries.com/teachings ... ver-wrong/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CVSTTS9/re ... pldnSite=1

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1144
Contact:

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by SJR3t2 »

Shawn Henry wrote: January 19th, 2023, 11:09 am Isn't it funny how the Jews give priority to the Talmud and let it twist the biblical meaning of the Torah and latter-day Israel professes a belief in Joseph's original scriptures, but let's the 1876 additions pervert the originals.

30 Therefore there was a law given them, yea, a law of performances and of ordinances, a law which they were to observe strictly from day to day, to keep them in remembrance of God and their duty towards him.

31 But behold, I say unto you, that all these things were types of things to come.

"Types of things to come"? You mean, like a latter-day repeat of placing the Talmud (1876 D&C) above the Torah (1844 D&C).
That is talking about the law of Moses, which JS and BoM teach us that it's different than Torah. I show a quote from JS and many BoM verses showing that here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu7_0J2 ... n&index=26

BoM shows Torah is still valid after Yeshua resurrection as I list tons of BoM verse after Yeshua resurrection and visit in 3 Nephi 11 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgUl1lc ... n&index=35

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1144
Contact:

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by SJR3t2 »

CaptainM wrote: January 19th, 2023, 11:46 am Seems like there are satanic Jewish shills creeping into the forum to use the power of satan:
…the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell. (2 Nephi 28)

Some appear as intellectuals, some as staunch Christians, and some outright haters of Christ. Satan ALWAYS sets up counterfeits.

We must hold fast to the words of Christ: all of them (not those posing as such from BY and RLDS).
I"m a Nazarene Mormon.

I explain why my base is the Book of Mormon and bring out how it’s base is Torah.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2020/02/21/my-b ... -holidays/

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1144
Contact:

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by SJR3t2 »

nightlight wrote: January 19th, 2023, 12:43 pm
So you still practice the laws of Moses?

Or are you just holding up the Jew flag pretending Jesus isn't the God of the Old Testament?
Torah and law of Moses are two different things as JS and BoM shows us. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu7_0J2 ... n&index=26 recording of a quote from JS and tons of BoM verses on this.

BoM shows Torah, not law of Moses, is still valid after 3 Nephi 11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgUl1lc ... n&index=35

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1144
Contact:

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by SJR3t2 »

TheChristian wrote: January 19th, 2023, 12:58 pm Paul said...

All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
He was talking of the Tanak not the NT, but it applies to the NT, BoM, D&C ect.

Alma 37 is a prophecy of Brass Plates coming back and causing people to repent, and it taught Torah.

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1144
Contact:

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by SJR3t2 »

nightlight wrote: January 19th, 2023, 1:02 pm That is something I have noticed.... Everybody who tries to incorporate the old law into to the high law (closet Jews/old wine into new bottle) also believe Jesus isn't the God of the Old Testament
The renewed covenant is the same law. BoM title page from the gold plates, FYI in the Tanak covenant and commandments and law and Torah and instructions are used interchangably.

Title Page of the Book of Mormon
Book of Mormon
Scriptures

and that they may know the covenants of the Lord

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1144
Contact:

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by SJR3t2 »

harakim wrote: January 20th, 2023, 1:42 am
I still think the Torah may be in place for Jews (all Israelites), although I am reconsidering after a discussion in another thread. However, it never applied to non-Israelites. I do think you can learn from following the Torah's laws, but I also think you can learn from most difficult or unusual lifestyles. This lifestyle was specifically designed as a contrast to Babylon so it will likely provide more avenues of growth for people than one taken at random (since most people live a Babylon-influenced lifestyle). If you feel like you should try it, then do, and also be sure you don't forget the weightier matters of the law. (There is no temple so I don't know if you could fulfill the sacrifices portion anyway which I have heard makes up the majority.)

I guess what I'm saying is for gentiles, the law is not required. You will get benefits because of the contrast, just like any other activity and you will get benefits from trying to do the right thing, just like anything you try, but I don't think it will offer any unique or spiritual benefits.
2 Nephi (LDS 29:7-9) (RLDS 12:55-63)
A 7 Know ye not that there are more NATIONS than one?
-B Know ye not that I, the Lord [YHWH] your God [ELOHIM], have CREATED ALL MEN,
--C and that I REMEMBER those who are upon the ISLES OF THE SEA;
---DA and that I RULE in the heavens above and in the earth beneath;
---DB and I BRING FORTH my WORD unto the children of men,
----E yea, even upon all the NATIONS of the earth?
-----F 8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall RECEIVE MORE of my WORD?
------G Know ye not that the TESTIMONY of TWO NATIONS is a WITNESS unto you that I am GOD [ELOHIM],
------G that I REMEMBER one NATION like unto ANOTHER?
-----F Wherefore, I SPEAK THE SAME WORDS UNTO ONE NATION LIKE UNTO ANOTHER.
----EA And when the two NATIONS shall run TOGETHER
----EB the testimony of the two NATIONS shall run TOGETHER also.
---DA 9 And I do this that I may PROVE unto many that I AM THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER;
---DB and that I SPEAK FORTH my WORDS according to mine own pleasure.
--C And because that I have spoken one word YE NEED NOT SUPPOSE THAT I CANNOT SPEAK ANOTHER;
-B for MY [YHWH ELOHIM] WORK is not yet finished;
A neither shall it be until the end of MAN, neither from that time henceforth and forever.

Leviticus 24:22 You will have one manner of law as well for the stranger as for the native for I AM Yahweh your Elohim.

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

NationDeseret
captain of 10
Posts: 30

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by NationDeseret »

CaptainM wrote: January 19th, 2023, 11:46 am Seems like there are satanic Jewish shills creeping into the forum to use the power of satan:
…the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell. (2 Nephi 28)

Some appear as intellectuals, some as staunch Christians, and some outright haters of Christ. Satan ALWAYS sets up counterfeits.

We must hold fast to the words of Christ: all of them (not those posing as such from BY and RLDS).
Jews love that Christians have been duped into believing that their religion came first. Christianity has existed since the time of Adam. They’re the enemies of Christ but you can’t hate them for that. Simply rebuke their deceptions and try your best to remain Christlike.

User avatar
CaptainM
captain of 100
Posts: 181
Location: Southwest Missouri

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by CaptainM »

NationDeseret wrote: January 20th, 2023, 1:15 pm
CaptainM wrote: January 19th, 2023, 11:46 am Seems like there are satanic Jewish shills creeping into the forum to use the power of satan:
…the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell. (2 Nephi 28)

Some appear as intellectuals, some as staunch Christians, and some outright haters of Christ. Satan ALWAYS sets up counterfeits.

We must hold fast to the words of Christ: all of them (not those posing as such from BY and RLDS).
Jews love that Christians have been duped into believing that their religion came first. Christianity has existed since the time of Adam. They’re the enemies of Christ but you can’t hate them for that. Simply rebuke their deceptions and try your best to remain Christlike.
Welcome to the forum. Great points made. I don't hate Jews. The time is coming when they will take the lead in the restoration and the gentiles will be adopted in with them. Once there was a time I wished that I was a Jew.

What I do hate is the evil deceptions coming from the modern Pharisees (Orthodox Jews) who are not really Jewish at all, but fake Jews. They control the great and abominable church of the devil, and started and infiltrated the Catholic Church in the first centuries after Christ's mortal ministry. The Jesuits are the main secret combination from which all the rest have come from. The first Jesuits were fake Jews.

Again, welcome to the forum.

In Christ. Best wishes...

NationDeseret
captain of 10
Posts: 30

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by NationDeseret »

CaptainM wrote: January 20th, 2023, 1:28 pm
NationDeseret wrote: January 20th, 2023, 1:15 pm
CaptainM wrote: January 19th, 2023, 11:46 am Seems like there are satanic Jewish shills creeping into the forum to use the power of satan:
…the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell. (2 Nephi 28)

Some appear as intellectuals, some as staunch Christians, and some outright haters of Christ. Satan ALWAYS sets up counterfeits.

We must hold fast to the words of Christ: all of them (not those posing as such from BY and RLDS).
Jews love that Christians have been duped into believing that their religion came first. Christianity has existed since the time of Adam. They’re the enemies of Christ but you can’t hate them for that. Simply rebuke their deceptions and try your best to remain Christlike.
Welcome to the forum. Great points made. I don't hate Jews. The time is coming when they will take the lead in the restoration and the gentiles will be adopted in with them. Once there was a time I wished that I was a Jew.

What I do hate is the evil deceptions coming from the modern Pharisees (Orthodox Jews) who are not really Jewish at all, but fake Jews. They control the great and abominable church of the devil, and started and infiltrated the Catholic Church in the first centuries after Christ's mortal ministry. The Jesuits are the main secret combination from which all the rest have come from. The first Jesuits were fake Jews.

Again, welcome to the forum.

In Christ. Best wishes...
Sounds like you’ve fell for one of their greatest lies. They’re Edomites not Jews. We’re all one under Christ whether Jew or gentile. That includes the race we consider Semitic today. The real Jews are the Irish, Scots and Germans. The Israelites however include all Western Europeans. That’s why Joseph Smith is an Ephraimite despite being a total white guy. Also, Brigham Young taught whites are Gods chosen people.

User avatar
CaptainM
captain of 100
Posts: 181
Location: Southwest Missouri

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by CaptainM »

NationDeseret wrote: January 20th, 2023, 1:43 pm
CaptainM wrote: January 20th, 2023, 1:28 pm
NationDeseret wrote: January 20th, 2023, 1:15 pm
CaptainM wrote: January 19th, 2023, 11:46 am Seems like there are satanic Jewish shills creeping into the forum to use the power of satan:
…the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell. (2 Nephi 28)

Some appear as intellectuals, some as staunch Christians, and some outright haters of Christ. Satan ALWAYS sets up counterfeits.

We must hold fast to the words of Christ: all of them (not those posing as such from BY and RLDS).
Jews love that Christians have been duped into believing that their religion came first. Christianity has existed since the time of Adam. They’re the enemies of Christ but you can’t hate them for that. Simply rebuke their deceptions and try your best to remain Christlike.
Welcome to the forum. Great points made. I don't hate Jews. The time is coming when they will take the lead in the restoration and the gentiles will be adopted in with them. Once there was a time I wished that I was a Jew.

What I do hate is the evil deceptions coming from the modern Pharisees (Orthodox Jews) who are not really Jewish at all, but fake Jews. They control the great and abominable church of the devil, and started and infiltrated the Catholic Church in the first centuries after Christ's mortal ministry. The Jesuits are the main secret combination from which all the rest have come from. The first Jesuits were fake Jews.

Again, welcome to the forum.

In Christ. Best wishes...
Sounds like you’ve fell for one of their greatest lies. They’re Edomites not Jews. We’re all one under Christ whether Jew or gentile. That includes the race we consider Semitic today. The real Jews are the Irish, Scots and Germans. The Israelites however include all Western Europeans. That’s why Joseph Smith is an Ephraimite despite being a total white guy. Also, Brigham Young taught whites are Gods chosen people.
Interesting approach, but not worth a debate. Some of things you mention are worth consideration. Personally I am nauseated by anything coming from BY. Have a great day.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9227
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contact:

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

CaptainM wrote: January 20th, 2023, 1:28 pm The time is coming when they will take the lead in the restoration and the gentiles will be adopted in with them. Once there was a time I wished that I was a Jew.
I'm honestly wondering if the whole concept of the House of Israel is much different than what we expect, that it has far more to do with the intent of your heart vs. the blood in your veins.

User avatar
Luke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9799
Location: England

Re: Torah is still Valid

Post by Luke »

CaptainM wrote: January 20th, 2023, 2:13 pm Personally I am nauseated by anything coming from BY. Have a great day.
Personally, I am nauseated by those who are nauseated by what comes from BY. Will still try and love you all though ;)

Post Reply