LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

[Light Seeker]

given many of the comments on communism, I'm wondering how few on FF know what communism is? Communism in its intended form taught years ago, isn't a totalitarian, oligarch runs social system! Russia has no communes. China has communal concepts for the poor and rural but no one else. Both of these countries are totalitarian regimes. China is run by the CCCP or communist party. Russia is run by the powerful oligarchs. Even in Benson's talks there are two things. Communist ideology and totalitarian regimes that take away freedom. Seems here people think any evil dictator or even warlord is some how tied to the communist ideology?

The issue today, isn't communism, it is socialism. Socialism allows corporations both private and state owned and provide social programs in return for continued power. This isn't what Marx, Lenin and Mao preached but more what the implemented.

Again, I don't see a single reference to any communal social order as being from Christ, no matter what social programs Joseph tried (and failed) to implement. Anyone so far that has claimed otherwise has no evidence to stand on. With that said, what Lenin tried (initially) and JS are pretty darn close, despite laundered LDS writing on the United Order (United Firm at the time).

The book quoted by ETB in this very talk which was redacted, None Dare Call It A Conspiracy by Gary Allen explicitly states:

“In keeping with the fact that almost everybody seems to have his own definition of Communism, we are going to give you ours, and then we will attempt to prove to you that it is the only valid one. Communism: AN INTERNATIONAL, CONSPIRATORIAL DRIVE FOR POWER ON THE PART OF MEN IN HIGH PLACES WILLING TO USE ANY MEANS TO BRING ABOUT THEIR DESIRED AIM—GLOBAL CONQUEST.” (None Dare Call It A Conspiracy, Gary Allen, p. 21.)

I highly recommend reading this book for anyone who hasn't. You won't think in terms of some kind of commune. But you will recognize the truth of it: we are being duped into accepting an international conspiratorial effort to bring about global conquest. This is Satan's endgame. Plain and simple. Socialism is the stepping stone to communism.

Two more great books to read are the Naked Socialist and Naked Communist by Cleon Skousen which illustrates the following:

naked communist.jpg


communist approach.jpg

I need to know how you added that photo . Please .

Sure! When you are replying to a comment, before you hit submit, look at the lower left hand of the page where it says Options and Attachments. Click on Attchments and click the blue ADD FILES button. Select your image from your device and continue following the prompts such as Place In Line. Presto!

Thank you Brother .

[Reluctant Watchman]

Just make sure there's no incriminating info in your file name, everyone will see that as well. You can even spice up the file name if you want.

[FrankOne]

given many of the comments on communism, I'm wondering how few on FF know what communism is? Communism in its intended form taught years ago, isn't a totalitarian, oligarch runs social system! Russia has no communes. China has communal concepts for the poor and rural but no one else. Both of these countries are totalitarian regimes. China is run by the CCCP or communist party. Russia is run by the powerful oligarchs. Even in Benson's talks there are two things. Communist ideology and totalitarian regimes that take away freedom. Seems here people think any evil dictator or even warlord is some how tied to the communist ideology?

The issue today, isn't communism, it is socialism. Socialism allows corporations both private and state owned and provide social programs in return for continued power. This isn't what Marx, Lenin and Mao preached but more what the implemented.

Again, I don't see a single reference to any communal social order as being from Christ, no matter what social programs Joseph tried (and failed) to implement. Anyone so far that has claimed otherwise has no evidence to stand on. With that said, what Lenin tried (initially) and JS are pretty darn close, despite laundered LDS writing on the United Order (United Firm at the time).

The book quoted by ETB in this very talk which was redacted, None Dare Call It A Conspiracy by Gary Allen explicitly states:

“In keeping with the fact that almost everybody seems to have his own definition of Communism, we are going to give you ours, and then we will attempt to prove to you that it is the only valid one. Communism: AN INTERNATIONAL, CONSPIRATORIAL DRIVE FOR POWER ON THE PART OF MEN IN HIGH PLACES WILLING TO USE ANY MEANS TO BRING ABOUT THEIR DESIRED AIM—GLOBAL CONQUEST.” (None Dare Call It A Conspiracy, Gary Allen, p. 21.)

I highly recommend reading this book for anyone who hasn't. You won't think in terms of some kind of commune. But you will recognize the truth of it: we are being duped into accepting an international conspiratorial effort to bring about global conquest. This is Satan's endgame. Plain and simple. Socialism is the stepping stone to communism.

Two more great books to read are the Naked Socialist and Naked Communist by Cleon Skousen which illustrates the following:

naked communist.jpg


communist approach.jpg

I need to know how you added that photo . Please .

Sure! When you are replying to a comment, before you hit submit, look at the lower left hand of the page where it says Options and Attachments. Click on Attchments and click the blue ADD FILES button. Select your image from your device and continue following the prompts such as Place In Line. Presto!

thanks from me as well.

for practice to see how this loads;

ok, i had to go through a conversion process to jpeg format to get it to work. so.. a clue here is that it has to be formatted to jpeg or other image format. I'm learning this as i go. shazam. looks like it will work.

[ransomme]

So you're saying that it's ok to change a talk because a lot of years have passed?
So, we need to not learn what people said or did, truthfully, years ago because times have changed?
But, even if that was your excuse, it was changed the same year, so your point is moot.

Read my response to mudflap. I said that a BETTER option would have been to put a disclaimer on the talk for contextual purposes, WITHOUT otherwise modifying the talk.

What would your disclaimer say, communism isn't a thing anymore so don't worry, be happy?

The disclaimer would go something like this:

This talk was given during the height of the Cold War, and as such the most visual enemy of the Church (largely an American institution at the time) was the encroachment of communism to many nations around the world. Today communism is no longer considered the grave threat that it was in Elder Benson's time, however, there are many organizations out there who have similar tactics in subterfuge, and people should be ever vigilant not to join these groups. Remember that we are not supposed to support any organization whose principles and teachings contradict those taught by the LDS Church.

Oh ok. Nicely started stated that you clearly didn't understand what he was saying, or what is going on in the world today.

[lundbaek]

Have any of you thought to question the First Presidency why these changes in Ezra Taft Benson's talks were made?

I've thought extensively about it.

How, exactly, would one go about "questioning The First Presidency"?

Because if you know how, I'll go do the questioning.

Some years ago I suggested in a snail mail letter to President Monson that the Church initiate a program to teach YM & YW about the special importance of the U.S. Constitution to members of the Church. The reply I received, signed and I believe written by one of his secretaries was merely an acknowledgement of receipt of my letter. Nothing more.

As I have stated several times before, I believe the FP is trying to avoid antagonizing government officials in any and all countries. Note, for an excellent example, the flattering words of President Nelson about the prime minister of New Zealand. Anybody remember the flattering words of President Hinkley about the then UN Secretary General, Kofi Annan in 2002? O have also complained to the (I forget the responsible party) about omission in the "Come Follow Me" lesson books of scriptures dealing with the U.S. Constitution and secret combinations. In recent months I have advised our current stake president of my concerns about the apparent muzzling of those topics, which I believe led to quoting words in the D&C about the Constitution in our last stake conference.

[anonymous91]

So, I guess we can take that whole premise of "things said over the pulpit in general conference are DOCTRINE"....thing and CHUCK IT.

Yet we spend such exorbitant amounts of time in this church rehashing conference talks during quorum meetings.

Makes you wonder, though. Who exactly IS pulling the Q15's strings behind the curtain? Who would be so offended by a condemnation of Communist ideology? Klaus Schwab?

I find it particularly interesting that President Benson strongly suggested that we read certain books. Books that educate us on secret societies, teach us how to recognize these evils and expose their wicked plans.

One has to ask the question: Why is the Church deliberately removing the books that President Benson directed us to read? What are they afraid that we will find?

We are told to follow the prophet, except if he actually helps you stumble on the truth apparently.

[Niemand]

Have any of you thought to question the First Presidency why these changes in Ezra Taft Benson's talks were made?

I've thought extensively about it.

How, exactly, would one go about "questioning The First Presidency"?

Because if you know how, I'll go do the questioning.

Some years ago I suggested in a snail mail letter to President Monson that the Church initiate a program to teach YM & YW about the special importance of the U.S. Constitution to members of the Church. The reply I received, signed and I believe written by one of his secretaries was merely an acknowledgement of receipt of my letter. Nothing more.

As I have stated several times before, I believe the FP is trying to avoid antagonizing government officials in any and all countries. Note, for an excellent example, the flattering words of President Nelson about the prime minister of New Zealand. Anybody remember the flattering words of President Hinkley about the then UN Secretary General, Kofi Annan in 2002? O have also complained to the (I forget the responsible party) about omission in the "Come Follow Me" lesson books of scriptures dealing with the U.S. Constitution and secret combinations. In recent months I have advised our current stake president of my concerns about the apparent muzzling of those topics, which I believe led to quoting words in the D&C about the Constitution in our last stake conference.

I am sympathetic to what you are saying here, but from their POV (and maybe mine), most of us members are no longer American so maybe they think it is going to alienate the likes of me.

Personally I do have great admiration for the American Constitution (with some reservations) and think such a lesson could be written in such a way not to be corny Americana, but instead how general principles in it aided the emergence of Mormonism and are relevant to maintaining basic human rights. That would be better than apple pie and flag waving.

Of course I live in a western country which pretends to be democratic (but isn't in certain respects)... whereas the church has wards and branches in certain countries which are not remotely democratic and do not pretend to be. Maybe that's the real problem rather than the Americana?

[Shawn Henry]

The OP erroneously attributes these talks to President Benson, as if someone later changed the words of a prophet. These talks were given by Elder Benson and most of his anti-communism rhetoric was as a junior apostle. I'm unaware of any such talks while he was the prophet.

Was he right? Hell yes! The First Presidency, however, always exercises the right to change the talks of their subordinates. Yes, it is unfortunate for truth's sake but there is no foul ball here.

[Reluctant Watchman]

As I have stated several times before, I believe the FP is trying to avoid antagonizing government officials in any and all countries. Note, for an excellent example, the flattering words of President Nelson about the prime minister of New Zealand. Anybody remember the flattering words of President Hinkley about the then UN Secretary General, Kofi Annan in 2002? O have also complained to the (I forget the responsible party) about omission in the "Come Follow Me" lesson books of scriptures dealing with the U.S. Constitution and secret combinations. In recent months I have advised our current stake president of my concerns about the apparent muzzling of those topics, which I believe led to quoting words in the D&C about the Constitution in our last stake conference.

“Avoid” isn’t the word I’d choose to describe what the church is doing w/ the whore of Babylon.

[spiritMan]

The OP erroneously attributes these talks to President Benson, as if someone later changed the words of a prophet. These talks were given by Elder Benson and most of his anti-communism rhetoric was as a junior apostle. I'm unaware of any such talks while he was the prophet.

Was he right? Hell yes! The First Presidency, however, always exercises the right to change the talks of their subordinates. Yes, it is unfortunate for truth's sake but there is no foul ball here.

You are nuts.

To actually change the words that were spoken. That's 1984 right there.

[tmac]

This isn’t the first and/or only time the Church has changed conference talks.

viewtopic.php?t=54976

When it comes to appearances and optics, anything goes for the Church. The end justifies the means. At this point in its whoring, the Church must look good for Babylon. What would you expect with Beverly Campbell as its image consultant and one of its primary influencers?

viewtopic.php?t=69065

[investigator]

President Benson was quoting the First Presidency from a statement published in the Deseret News on November 2, 1964. So I guess it is okay to censure previous Prophets, Seers and Revelators and Presidents of the Church.

“The First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Monday issued the following statement regarding Tuesday's election:

The First Presidency has previously issued a statement urging you as citizens to participate in the great democratic processes of our national election in accordance with your honest political convictions.

“We have urged you, above all, to try to support good and conscientious candidates of either party who are aware of the great dangers inherent in communism and who are truly dedicated to the constitution in the tradition of our fathers. We have suggested also that you should support candidates who pledge their sincere fidelity to our liberty - a liberty which aims at the preservation of both personal and property rights.

“We again urge you to study the issues, analyze the candidates on these grounds and then exercise your franchise as free men and women. We urge you not to sell your birthright for a mess of pottage.

“In giving this advise, we leave it to you to make your own choice, for the Church as such does not endorse either party. Recent receptions accorded by the First Presidency to leaders of the different parties do not imply any official endorsement by the Church.”

Sincerely yours,
DAVID O. MCKAY
HUGH B. BROWN
N. ELDON TANNER
THE FIRST PRESIDNECY

1 Pres Communism.png (268.61 KiB) Viewed 492 times

Deseret News @ Newspapers.com

[Chip]

Input to ChatGPT:

Write a talk by LDS church leaders that explains why it's okay to censor the words of prior prophets from earlier times.


ChatGPT responds:

Dear brothers and sisters,

We are gathered here today to discuss an important topic that has been on the minds of many of our members: the censorship of the words of prior prophets from earlier times. We understand that this can be a sensitive and controversial topic, and we want to assure you that our intentions are to protect and preserve the teachings of the Church, while also ensuring that they are presented in a way that is consistent with our current understanding and doctrine.

First, it is important to understand that the words of our prophets, seers, and revelators are not always given in a fully developed form. They are often given in a manner that is consistent with the understanding and context of the time in which they were given. As the Church and society have evolved, so too has our understanding of certain teachings and principles.

For example, in the past, some Church leaders may have used language or made statements that could be interpreted as racist or discriminatory. While these statements may have been made with the best of intentions, they do not align with our current understanding and teachings on race and equality. By censoring these statements, we are not trying to hide or erase history, but rather, we are ensuring that they are presented in a way that is consistent with our current understanding and doctrine.

Additionally, we must also consider the potential harm that certain teachings or statements could cause to members of our Church. For example, if a previous prophet made a statement that could be interpreted as promoting violence or hate, we have a responsibility to censor it in order to protect the well-being of our members.

In conclusion, the censorship of the words of prior prophets from earlier times is not a decision that is made lightly. It is done with the intention of preserving and protecting the teachings of the Church, while also ensuring that they are presented in a way that is consistent with our current understanding and doctrine. We trust that our members will understand and support our efforts to ensure that the teachings of the Church are shared in a way that is consistent with our current understanding and doctrine.

We invite any questions or concerns you may have.

Sincerely,
LDS Church leaders.

[investigator]

The following statement which was also redacted from President Benson's talk was a quote from Church President David O. McKay'...

The position of this Church on the subject of Communism has never changed. We consider it the greatest satanical threat to peace, prosperity, and the spread of God’s work among men that exists on the face of the earth.

Of course this is well known to those who have perused the pages of this forum...

https://www.latterdayconservative.com/d ... communism/

[tmac]

Clearly, current Church leaders don’t share those sentiments — and are claiming greater enlightenment and understanding. And that is clearly the direction they are leading the Church.

[marc]

Clearly, current Church leaders don’t share those sentiments — and are claiming greater enlightenment and understanding. And that is clearly the direction they are leading the Church.

Climate repentance!

[tmac]

The evolved, enlightened position:

We consider man-made global warming and climate change to be the greatest satanical threat to peace, prosperity, and the spread of God’s work among men that exists on the face of the earth — second only to right wing conspiracy theorists, including climate deniers, COVID deniers, and anti-vaxxers — all of whom pose an even greater existential threat.

[marc]

The evolved, enlightened position:

We consider man-made global warming and climate change to be the greatest satanical threat to peace, prosperity, and the spread of God’s work among men that exists on the face of the earth — second only to right wing conspiracy theorists, including climate deniers, COVID deniers, and anti-vaxxers — all of whom pose an even greater existential threat.

Is that from the church website somewhere? Because Elder Bednar participated in the climate repentance ceremony at Mount Sinai recently.

https://climaterepentance.com/participants/

[Subcomandante]

Read my response to mudflap. I said that a BETTER option would have been to put a disclaimer on the talk for contextual purposes, WITHOUT otherwise modifying the talk.

What would your disclaimer say, communism isn't a thing anymore so don't worry, be happy?

The disclaimer would go something like this:

This talk was given during the height of the Cold War, and as such the most visual enemy of the Church (largely an American institution at the time) was the encroachment of communism to many nations around the world. Today communism is no longer considered the grave threat that it was in Elder Benson's time, however, there are many organizations out there who have similar tactics in subterfuge, and people should be ever vigilant not to join these groups. Remember that we are not supposed to support any organization whose principles and teachings contradict those taught by the LDS Church.

Oh ok. Nicely started stated that you clearly didn't understand what he was saying, or what is going on in the world today.

I understand VERY well what is going on in the world today. You guys are looking through a lens of 50 years gone by, without realizing that there are sinister people on pretty much every side of the political realm vying for everyone's attention.

In the future, there will be no United States of America, no Russia, no China, no Mexico, no nation. There will be Zion.

I await that day with anxiousness. Because then many things will be revealed that NONE of us understand today. Not even to the hundredth part.

For then there will be ONE ruler, and those called to be His Servants.

His name?

Jesus Christ.


For that reason, the Church is not injecting itself into a nation's politics, like what was the case before. They are letting the nations do as they want, sewing the seeds of their own destruction.

Why?

They have rejected repeated counsel of the prophets.

What is their punishment?

The Book of Mormon lays it out. They will fall. Those among them that are repentant will help the House of Israel build Zion.

[tmac]

Sorry, but the Church is actively and proactively injecting itself into politics and political issues more than ever -- whatever it needs to do to curry favor with Babylon. It could just keep its mouth shut on political issues, but it doesn't. It swims with the current, goes along to get along, and now likes to make sure that TPTB know that it is onboard.

Fortunately, some of the other stuff you say is true. Zion will be a welcome reprieve. In the meantime, perhaps not so much.

[Niemand]

The evolved, enlightened position:

We consider man-made global warming and climate change to be the greatest satanical threat to peace, prosperity, and the spread of God’s work among men that exists on the face of the earth — second only to right wing conspiracy theorists, including climate deniers, COVID deniers, and anti-vaxxers — all of whom pose an even greater existential threat.

Is that from the church website somewhere? Because Elder Bednar participated in the climate repentance ceremony at Mount Sinai recently.

https://climaterepentance.com/participants/

What relevance has Mount Sinai to Buddhists and Hindus who also do not have the notion of repentance? Daft.

Interesting to see Rowan Williams on there.

[Trucker]

Does anyone have a pic or screen grab of Elder Rasband with the UN Agenda 2030 pin on his lapel? Someone showed it to me through the LDS library app but I haven't been able to find it online.

[Niemand]

For then there will be ONE ruler, and those called to be His Servants.

His name?

Jesus Christ.

The Bible also warns us that false Christs and false gospels will emerge. This has already happened within our lifetime.

Be careful to avoid both of these.

[Niemand]

Does anyone have a pic or screen grab of Elder Rasband with the UN Agenda 2030 pin on his lapel? Someone showed it to me through the LDS library app but I haven't been able to find it online.

It's on this forum wish I could remember where.

[Trucker]

Does anyone have a pic or screen grab of Elder Rasband with the UN Agenda 2030 pin on his lapel? Someone showed it to me through the LDS library app but I haven't been able to find it online.

It's on this forum.

A link would be appreciated. I can't find it.