LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

For discussion of secret combinations (political, economic, spiritual, religious, etc.) (Ether 8:18-25.)
endlessQuestions
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

Post by endlessQuestions »

crabman wrote: January 18th, 2023, 4:37 pm How soon before we have a new version of the Book of Mormon that edits out references to secret combinations and other evils in an effort to avoid offending people? Just unbelievable. It's full on ministry of truth stuff going on.
That'd be a short book, considering conspiracy related topics are the second most referred to topic after Jesus Christ.

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h_p
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

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TheDuke wrote: January 18th, 2023, 7:02 pm given many of the comments on communism, I'm wondering how few on FF know what communism is? Communism in its intended form taught years ago, isn't a totalitarian, oligarch runs social system! Russia has no communes.
It's more like a bait-and-switch than an intended anything. "So you want egalitarianism and a peaceful government-free society run by the people? Great! Here's your Animal Farm."

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Fred
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

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TheDuke wrote: January 18th, 2023, 7:02 pm given many of the comments on communism, I'm wondering how few on FF know what communism is? Communism in its intended form taught years ago, isn't a totalitarian, oligarch runs social system! Russia has no communes. China has communal concepts for the poor and rural but no one else. Both of these countries are totalitarian regimes. China is run by the CCCP or communist party. Russia is run by the powerful oligarchs. Even in Benson's talks there are two things. Communist ideology and totalitarian regimes that take away freedom. Seems here people think any evil dictator or even warlord is some how tied to the communist ideology?

The issue today, isn't communism, it is socialism. Socialism allows corporations both private and state owned and provide social programs in return for continued power. This isn't what Marx, Lenin and Mao preached but more what the implemented.

Again, I don't see a single reference to any communal social order as being from Christ, no matter what social programs Joseph tried (and failed) to implement. Anyone so far that has claimed otherwise has no evidence to stand on. With that said, what Lenin tried (initially) and JS are pretty darn close, despite laundered LDS writing on the United Order (United Firm at the time).
Well, the United Order would have had a Christlike leader. At least in the beginning. We can discuss ideologies all day. But it makes a big difference who is in charge. There were good kings and bad kings. If the leader is benevolent, the politics don't matter so much. If the leader is not benevolent, politics can matter a great deal.

It is different when God says "This is the way it is, comply or be thrown out" than when satan says "This is how it is, no ifs, ands, or buts."
God has total control. And it really is for our own good.
Satan wants total control, our own good be damned.

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TheDuke
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

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I've said many times. If Jesus comes down here and spends full time managing the collective, I will join. Else, count me out. There never has been a successful communal system for more than a few people for more than a few years........... Don't bother to talk about Enoch as we have no info on his system. and the 4 gens of Nephites, which is only really about 2 gens as one was old and the later youth, is pretty short and then only a few survivors there to. I think when Jesus comes, he will put decent people in charge but will have checks and balances and individual ownership and individual participation, all will be invited, none compelled to join. That is his way.

lundbaek
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Post by lundbaek »

Have any of you thought to question the First Presidency why these changes in Ezra Taft Benson's talks were made?

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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

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endlessQuestions wrote: January 18th, 2023, 4:13 pm Now, how were Beverly Campbell (our "thirteenth apostle") and Russell M. Nelson supposed to get us access to those countries if we were bad-mouthing their godless form of government?

Clearly, there was "no other way" than to neuter talks that used "wrong speech".

It’s all for the good of the whole .

Why rely on the arm of the Lord when you can do it yourself ?

Follow the profit ; he knows the way .

The ends really do justify the means …


It’s easy to justify it all away .…

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Chip
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

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All part of the covenant with death and hell that the drunkards of Ephraim make per Isaiah 28. They think the calamity will pass over them.

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Fred
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Post by Fred »

lundbaek wrote: January 18th, 2023, 10:37 pm Have any of you thought to question the First Presidency why these changes in Ezra Taft Benson's talks were made?
Let us expound on that.

Does anyone have the right to change what a prophet of God says?

There was no explanation for changing the words of the prophet, so we may assume they either think it is none of our business, or that it requires no explanation. My personal feeling on that is that even if the prophet cleared his throat, it should not be removed or altered.

The FP lead us to believe that the prophet speaks for God and therefore changing his words are equal to changing God's words. But then, they have also changed words in the Book of Mormon so maybe when they say follow the living prophet, they really mean that God changes his mind so often that dead prophet words are just so yesterday and only words written or spoken since the latest prophet took office can be considered true.

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ransomme
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

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Wolves on sheep's clothing

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marc
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

Post by marc »

TheDuke wrote: January 18th, 2023, 7:02 pm given many of the comments on communism, I'm wondering how few on FF know what communism is? Communism in its intended form taught years ago, isn't a totalitarian, oligarch runs social system! Russia has no communes. China has communal concepts for the poor and rural but no one else. Both of these countries are totalitarian regimes. China is run by the CCCP or communist party. Russia is run by the powerful oligarchs. Even in Benson's talks there are two things. Communist ideology and totalitarian regimes that take away freedom. Seems here people think any evil dictator or even warlord is some how tied to the communist ideology?

The issue today, isn't communism, it is socialism. Socialism allows corporations both private and state owned and provide social programs in return for continued power. This isn't what Marx, Lenin and Mao preached but more what the implemented.

Again, I don't see a single reference to any communal social order as being from Christ, no matter what social programs Joseph tried (and failed) to implement. Anyone so far that has claimed otherwise has no evidence to stand on. With that said, what Lenin tried (initially) and JS are pretty darn close, despite laundered LDS writing on the United Order (United Firm at the time).
The book quoted by ETB in this very talk which was redacted, None Dare Call It A Conspiracy by Gary Allen explicitly states:

“In keeping with the fact that almost everybody seems to have his own definition of Communism, we are going to give you ours, and then we will attempt to prove to you that it is the only valid one. Communism: AN INTERNATIONAL, CONSPIRATORIAL DRIVE FOR POWER ON THE PART OF MEN IN HIGH PLACES WILLING TO USE ANY MEANS TO BRING ABOUT THEIR DESIRED AIM—GLOBAL CONQUEST.” (None Dare Call It A Conspiracy, Gary Allen, p. 21.)

I highly recommend reading this book for anyone who hasn't. You won't think in terms of some kind of commune. But you will recognize the truth of it: we are being duped into accepting an international conspiratorial effort to bring about global conquest. This is Satan's endgame. Plain and simple. Socialism is the stepping stone to communism.

Two more great books to read are the Naked Socialist and Naked Communist by Cleon Skousen which illustrates the following:
naked communist.jpg
naked communist.jpg (165.78 KiB) Viewed 808 times
communist approach.jpg
communist approach.jpg (341.5 KiB) Viewed 808 times

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

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TheDuke wrote: January 18th, 2023, 8:20 pm I've said many times. If Jesus comes down here and spends full time managing the collective, I will join. Else, count me out. There never has been a successful communal system for more than a few people for more than a few years........... Don't bother to talk about Enoch as we have no info on his system. and the 4 gens of Nephites, which is only really about 2 gens as one was old and the later youth, is pretty short and then only a few survivors there to. I think when Jesus comes, he will put decent people in charge but will have checks and balances and individual ownership and individual participation, all will be invited, none compelled to join. That is his way.
I disagree. We have records about consecrated societies that lived for well over a thousand years. And their beliefs and methods of living in such a society are explained in great detail. Unfortunately many cast aside such records.

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Subcomandante
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

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Much ado about nothing.

Communism today is not the same threat it was back in the 70s.

Also the demographics of the Church is FAR different than it was back in the 70s too.

It's 2023, not 1972. Adjust your clocks accordingly.

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mudflap
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

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Subcomandante wrote: January 19th, 2023, 5:41 am Much ado about nothing.

Communism today is not the same threat it was back in the 70s.

Also the demographics of the Church is FAR different than it was back in the 70s too.

It's 2023, not 1972. Adjust your clocks accordingly.
so.....do you "eat ze bugs"? lol.

2 points:

1. Do you think it's ok for the church to edit President Benson's talk?

2.
AN INTERNATIONAL, CONSPIRATORIAL DRIVE FOR POWER ON THE PART OF MEN IN HIGH PLACES WILLING TO USE ANY MEANS TO BRING ABOUT THEIR DESIRED AIM—GLOBAL CONQUEST.”
perfectly describes the WEF.

Please really read the Book of Mormon - it's dripping with the evils of communism. The fact is: evil men lusting for power have existed since Cain, and will continue to exist until they are burned at the second coming. Pretending that
communism today is not the same threat as it was back in the 70's
shows a lack of knowledge of the character of men, which never changes.

And if you want to know deeply about the character of men - read the Book of Mormon. Laman and Lemuel, Amlici, Nehor, King Noah, and on and on - all the commies are in there if you really think about it.

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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

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Subcomandante wrote: January 19th, 2023, 5:41 am Much ado about nothing.

Communism today is not the same threat it was back in the 70s.

Also the demographics of the Church is FAR different than it was back in the 70s too.

It's 2023, not 1972. Adjust your clocks accordingly.
Welcome to a new world order my friend.

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ransomme
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

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Subcomandante wrote: January 19th, 2023, 5:41 am Much ado about nothing.

Communism today is not the same threat it was back in the 70s.

Also the demographics of the Church is FAR different than it was back in the 70s too.

It's 2023, not 1972. Adjust your clocks accordingly.
To be frank (without ill intent I assure), are you that ignorant about communism?

Don't confuse the Soviet Union et al. for communism. That was simply a brand of a distorted economic communism rather than the popular ideological, political and cultural communism that we see today. Although that is not to say that economic communism (EC) is dead. Many EC tendencies are persistent in society still.

Never heard of neo-Marxism, intersectionality, wokism, etc? These are all expressions of communism. Communism, Marxism, etc are just catch phrases. Call it what ever you want, a pile of feces by any other name will still smell as crappy. There is a spectrum of crap if you will. So call it whatever you want but the underlining ideology is revolutionary and destructive. And it's alive and well today.

Just swap out "class" for "race, or sex, or gender, or the like" and voila you have yourself an early 21st century cultural and/or political revolution.

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marc
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

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Subcomandante wrote: January 19th, 2023, 5:41 am Much ado about nothing.

Communism today is not the same threat it was back in the 70s.

Also the demographics of the Church is FAR different than it was back in the 70s too.

It's 2023, not 1972. Adjust your clocks accordingly.
No. It's 1984.

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Subcomandante
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

Post by Subcomandante »

mudflap wrote: January 19th, 2023, 6:06 am
Subcomandante wrote: January 19th, 2023, 5:41 am Much ado about nothing.

Communism today is not the same threat it was back in the 70s.

Also the demographics of the Church is FAR different than it was back in the 70s too.

It's 2023, not 1972. Adjust your clocks accordingly.
so.....do you "eat ze bugs"? lol.

2 points:

1. Do you think it's ok for the church to edit President Benson's talk?

2.
AN INTERNATIONAL, CONSPIRATORIAL DRIVE FOR POWER ON THE PART OF MEN IN HIGH PLACES WILLING TO USE ANY MEANS TO BRING ABOUT THEIR DESIRED AIM—GLOBAL CONQUEST.”
perfectly describes the WEF.

Please really read the Book of Mormon - it's dripping with the evils of communism. The fact is: evil men lusting for power have existed since Cain, and will continue to exist until they are burned at the second coming. Pretending that
communism today is not the same threat as it was back in the 70's
shows a lack of knowledge of the character of men, which never changes.

And if you want to know deeply about the character of men - read the Book of Mormon. Laman and Lemuel, Amlici, Nehor, King Noah, and on and on - all the commies are in there if you really think about it.
To answer your first question, I do not regularly eat bugs. But here, chapulines are a pretty common delicacy. No one in Mexico with a right mind would even dare to try to tell the population to sacrifice their carne asada, carnitas, barbacoa, and tacos for chapulines.

To answer the point about the Church editing President Benson's talk, I understand why they do it, but I think it would be much better to leave everything in the talk as is, and put a disclaimer on the talk, similar to what Disney does with its older movies, noting that the conditions of the world and of the Church in the 1970s were far different than they are today. This would add context to the talk for the newer members of the Church.

Communism is not mentioned even ONCE in the Book of Mormon, given that the system that we know of didn't exist back then and it did not exist in Joseph Smith's day either. But conspiracies did abound back then as they did in Joseph's day, and in our day as well. Those who are part of the conspiracy change over time which is why if you observe the talks of the early Church leaders, then compare them to later talks, then compare them to talks given over the pulpit in these days, the threats change.

Laman and Lemuel I could call traditionalists or even Social Darwinists. They felt like because they were older, they could run things the way they wanted to and they did not want to cede any ground to their younger brothers. Their character is described as similar to those that were living in Jerusalem at the time.

Amlici can be compared to usurpers on any part of the political spectrum. The most prescient examples of this would be Trump and Bolsonaro because they are the most recent ones. Trump would have been executed in Book of Mormon times for going against the voice of the people and conspiring to maintain power even as the people voted for his opponent.

Nehor was a wayward priest that taught very false doctrines, wanting to become popular in the eyes of the world. He also introduced priestcraft and tried to apply it by force. Not unlike characters like Torquemada of the Inquisition. Also not unlike Biden with his mandates.

King Noah is perhaps the best example of someone who you would NOT want ruling over you. He set up his own priests, levied heavy taxes on his people, living a life of vices and luxury and causing the people to support him in sin. He is more like Commodus of Rome. Maybe the best example of this in the United States would be the Clinton family, both Bill and Hillary.

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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

Post by mtmom »

investigator wrote: January 18th, 2023, 3:08 pm https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

I was doing some research on the great conspiracy and was told that President Benson gave a talk on it in the 1972 April Conference (see link above) as I was told it contained statements against communism. When I searched the text of the talk I found no mention of communism. I then listened to the talk as I followed along with the text. It was then that I discovered that the text of the talk had been completely changed deleting many references to communism and many other very important things and references to books Pres Benson recommended reading. I have copied the relevant portions of the text and underlined the words that were added and put in red the words that were taken out. The part where the significant changes are made starts at 10:12 of the video. I guess he died before they had him redo the video of his talk.. Do you think this is an honest retelling of history?
Another guideline given by the First Presidency was “to support good and conscientious candidates, of either party, who are aware of the great dangers” facing the free world. inherent in communism. The position of this church on the subject of communism has never changed. We consider it the greatest satanical threat to the peace prosperity and spread of God's work among man that exists on the face of the earth. Deseret News, November 2, 1964.)

Fortunately we have materials to help us face these threatening dangers this great threat such as President McKay's booklet of the statements on communism and the constitution of the United States, Cleon Skousen's book The Naked Communist which we are advised to read. in the writings of President David O. McKay and other church leaders. Some other fine sources books by LDS authors attempting to awaken and inform us of our duty are: Prophets, Principles, and National Survival (Jerreld L. Newquist), Many Are Called But Few Are Chosen (H. Verlan Andersen), and The Elders of Israel and the Constitution (Jerome Horowitz).

But the greatest handbook for freedom in this fight against communism and other evils is the Book of Mormon.
This leads me to the second great civic standard for the Saints. For in addition to our inspired Constitution, we have the scriptures.

Joseph Smith said that the Book of Mormon was the “keystone of our religion” and the “most correct” book on earth. (DHC, vol. 6, p. 56.) This most correct book on earth states that the downfall of two great American civilizations came as a result of secret conspiracies whose desire was to overthrow the freedom of the people. “And they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking,” says Moroni, “and also the destruction of the people of Nephi.” (Ether 8:21.)

Now undoubtedly Moroni could have pointed out many factors that led to the destruction of the people, but notice how he singled out the secret combinations, just as the Church today could point out many threats to peace, prosperity, and the spread of God’s work, but it has singled out the greatest threat as the godless conspiracy. There is no conspiracy theory in the Book of Mormon—it is a conspiracy fact. And along this line I would highly recommend to you an new book entitled None Dare Call it Conspiracy by Gary Allen.
Then Moroni speaks to us in this day and says, “Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you. …” (Ether 8:24.)

The Book of Mormon further warns that “whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold they shall be destroyed. …” (Ether 8:22.) [By the way, after the word destroyed you hear a clap of thunder on the video audio]

This scripture should alert us to what is ahead unless we repent, because there is no question but that our Nation is increasingly upholding the communist conspiracy today. as people of the free world, we are increasingly upholding many of the evils of the adversary today. By court edict godless conspirators communists can run for government office, teach in our schools, hold office in labor unions, work in our defense plants, serve in our merchant marines, etcand so forth. As a nation, we are helping it would seem to underwrite communist many evil revolutionaries in our country.
Now we are assured that the Church will remain on the earth until the Lord comes again—but at what price? The Saints in the early days were assured that Zion would be established in Jackson County, but look at what their unfaithfulness cost them in bloodshed and delay.

President Clark warned us that “we stand in danger of losing our liberties, and that once lost, only blood will bring them back; and once lost, we of this church will, in order to keep the Church going forward, have more sacrifices to make and more persecutions to endure than we have yet known. …” (CR, April 1944, p. 116.) And he stated that if the conspiracy communism“comes here it will probably come in its full vigor and there will be a lot of vacant places among those who guide and direct, not only this government, but also this Church of ours.” (CR, April 1952.)
The church will do anything to preserve and defend itself. They were successful during WWII in aligning itself with Hitler and his government. (Read Moroni and the Swastika by David Conley Nelson). They didn't have a problem with socialism and now they don't seem to have a problem with communism. They carefully watch the political climates around the world and seek to align themselves with that narrative.....while still trying to hang on their mission as a church. However I believe this church (that many of us hold dear)-- is definitely sitting on the fence so they continue to grow more powerful and rich. They don't want to offend anyone or any creed. And it will not turn out well.

See Revelation 3
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

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mudflap
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

Post by mudflap »

Subcomandante wrote: January 19th, 2023, 7:57 am
mudflap wrote: January 19th, 2023, 6:06 am
Subcomandante wrote: January 19th, 2023, 5:41 am Much ado about nothing.

Communism today is not the same threat it was back in the 70s.

Also the demographics of the Church is FAR different than it was back in the 70s too.

It's 2023, not 1972. Adjust your clocks accordingly.
so.....do you "eat ze bugs"? lol.

2 points:

1. Do you think it's ok for the church to edit President Benson's talk?

2.
AN INTERNATIONAL, CONSPIRATORIAL DRIVE FOR POWER ON THE PART OF MEN IN HIGH PLACES WILLING TO USE ANY MEANS TO BRING ABOUT THEIR DESIRED AIM—GLOBAL CONQUEST.”
perfectly describes the WEF.

Please really read the Book of Mormon - it's dripping with the evils of communism. The fact is: evil men lusting for power have existed since Cain, and will continue to exist until they are burned at the second coming. Pretending that
communism today is not the same threat as it was back in the 70's
shows a lack of knowledge of the character of men, which never changes.

And if you want to know deeply about the character of men - read the Book of Mormon. Laman and Lemuel, Amlici, Nehor, King Noah, and on and on - all the commies are in there if you really think about it.
To answer your first question, I do not regularly eat bugs. But here, chapulines are a pretty common delicacy. No one in Mexico with a right mind would even dare to try to tell the population to sacrifice their carne asada, carnitas, barbacoa, and tacos for chapulines.

To answer the point about the Church editing President Benson's talk, I understand why they do it, but I think it would be much better to leave everything in the talk as is, and put a disclaimer on the talk, similar to what Disney does with its older movies, noting that the conditions of the world and of the Church in the 1970s were far different than they are today. This would add context to the talk for the newer members of the Church.

Communism is not mentioned even ONCE in the Book of Mormon, given that the system that we know of didn't exist back then and it did not exist in Joseph Smith's day either. But conspiracies did abound back then as they did in Joseph's day, and in our day as well. Those who are part of the conspiracy change over time which is why if you observe the talks of the early Church leaders, then compare them to later talks, then compare them to talks given over the pulpit in these days, the threats change.

Laman and Lemuel I could call traditionalists or even Social Darwinists. They felt like because they were older, they could run things the way they wanted to and they did not want to cede any ground to their younger brothers. Their character is described as similar to those that were living in Jerusalem at the time.

Amlici can be compared to usurpers on any part of the political spectrum. The most prescient examples of this would be Trump and Bolsonaro because they are the most recent ones. Trump would have been executed in Book of Mormon times for going against the voice of the people and conspiring to maintain power even as the people voted for his opponent.

Nehor was a wayward priest that taught very false doctrines, wanting to become popular in the eyes of the world. He also introduced priestcraft and tried to apply it by force. Not unlike characters like Torquemada of the Inquisition. Also not unlike Biden with his mandates.

King Noah is perhaps the best example of someone who you would NOT want ruling over you. He set up his own priests, levied heavy taxes on his people, living a life of vices and luxury and causing the people to support him in sin. He is more like Commodus of Rome. Maybe the best example of this in the United States would be the Clinton family, both Bill and Hillary.
Communism is not mentioned even ONCE in the Book of Mormon
woah, woah, woah, hold on there, bub: no one has ever claimed the word 'communism' is in the Book of Mormon. What are you talking about? You think because the word "communism" isn't in the Book of Mormon, that we can safely ignore Ezra Benson's warnings about it? In case you missed it above we are talking about communism as:
AN INTERNATIONAL, CONSPIRATORIAL DRIVE FOR POWER ON THE PART OF MEN IN HIGH PLACES WILLING TO USE ANY MEANS TO BRING ABOUT THEIR DESIRED AIM—GLOBAL CONQUEST.”
I'm glad you "know about" these characters in the Book of Mormon - but they aren't dead. "knowing about communists" (see the all caps definition in quote above) in the Book of Mormon isn't the same as "knowing communists" that are living right now, today.

"applied knowledge" is different from "pure knowledge" https://www.artofliving.org/wisdom/know ... -knowledge

- pure knowledge is knowing about the characters in the Book of Mormon.
- Applied knowledge is the useful application of pure knowledge; i.e. realizing that the same types of people exist in the world today and they want the same things - call them by whatever name you like - but they are communists, all of them. <- missing this link is going to mean the difference between
the one shall be taken, and the other left
you cannot be saved in ignorance ~ Joseph Smith.

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mudflap
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

Post by mudflap »

mtmom wrote: January 19th, 2023, 8:01 am
The church will do anything to preserve and defend itself. They were successful during WWII in aligning itself with Hitler and his government. (Read Moroni and the Swastika by David Conley Nelson). They didn't have a problem with socialism and now they don't seem to have a problem with communism. They carefully watch the political climates around the world and seek to align themselves with that narrative.....while still trying to hang on their mission as a church. However I believe this church (that many of us hold dear)-- is definitely sitting on the fence so they continue to grow more powerful and rich. They don't want to offend anyone or any creed. And it will not turn out well.

See Revelation 3
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
agreed. just want to emphasize that part above -

Daniel 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
It happened without hands - as in: the church doesn't need to align itself with ANY organization of men. JS said it would go forth
“The truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear.”
We don't need the help of WEF, the UN, the WHO, the CDC, or any government of men to do this work. To the level we align with their satanic and communistic goals, we slow the progress of the work of God.

CuriousThinker
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

Post by CuriousThinker »

Subcomandante wrote: January 19th, 2023, 5:41 am Much ado about nothing.

Communism today is not the same threat it was back in the 70s.

Also the demographics of the Church is FAR different than it was back in the 70s too.

It's 2023, not 1972. Adjust your clocks accordingly.
So you're saying that it's ok to change a talk because a lot of years have passed?
So, we need to not learn what people said or did, truthfully, years ago because times have changed?
But, even if that was your excuse, it was changed the same year, so your point is moot.

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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

Post by JSmith »

FrankOne wrote: January 18th, 2023, 6:04 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 18th, 2023, 5:16 pm The church also took out the SEO searchable text of Joseph Smith drinking beer from the Joseph Smith Papers project.
are you saying that the Q15 et al have been engaging in cover-ups, manipulation of doctrine and the creation of propaganda in a concerted effort to mislead the church membership? For what purpose? Are you saying that they are purposefully leading the church to go under the skirt of the great whore as described in Revelation? Fornication? C'mon Man! That's absurd.

^sarc

edit to add: If JS comes back, I hope to tip one or two with him and discuss all this nonsense.
you can still find it. just search the papers for "Moessers"

endlessQuestions
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

Post by endlessQuestions »

CuriousThinker wrote: January 19th, 2023, 8:40 am
Subcomandante wrote: January 19th, 2023, 5:41 am Much ado about nothing.

Communism today is not the same threat it was back in the 70s.

Also the demographics of the Church is FAR different than it was back in the 70s too.

It's 2023, not 1972. Adjust your clocks accordingly.
So you're saying that it's ok to change a talk because a lot of years have passed?
So, we need to not learn what people said or did, truthfully, years ago because times have changed?
But, even if that was your excuse, it was changed the same year, so your point is moot.
Sub is not interested in seeing things as they were, or are, or as they shall be. He is far more interested in seeing things as he hopes they are and will be.

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mudflap
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Re: LDS Church Changes Pres Benson's Talk

Post by mudflap »

endlessQuestions wrote: January 19th, 2023, 10:07 am
CuriousThinker wrote: January 19th, 2023, 8:40 am
Subcomandante wrote: January 19th, 2023, 5:41 am Much ado about nothing.

Communism today is not the same threat it was back in the 70s.

Also the demographics of the Church is FAR different than it was back in the 70s too.

It's 2023, not 1972. Adjust your clocks accordingly.
So you're saying that it's ok to change a talk because a lot of years have passed?
So, we need to not learn what people said or did, truthfully, years ago because times have changed?
But, even if that was your excuse, it was changed the same year, so your point is moot.
Sub is not interested in seeing things as they were, or are, or as they shall be. He is far more interested in seeing things as he hopes they are and will be.
you know....someday, I'm going to live in that fantasy world of unicorns, fairies, and happiness. But for now, I'm going to keep my 2A close by.

Niyr
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Re: Re:

Post by Niyr »

Fred wrote: January 19th, 2023, 12:46 am
lundbaek wrote: January 18th, 2023, 10:37 pm Have any of you thought to question the First Presidency why these changes in Ezra Taft Benson's talks were made?
Let us expound on that.

Does anyone have the right to change what a prophet of God says?

There was no explanation for changing the words of the prophet, so we may assume they either think it is none of our business, or that it requires no explanation. My personal feeling on that is that even if the prophet cleared his throat, it should not be removed or altered.

The FP lead us to believe that the prophet speaks for God and therefore changing his words are equal to changing God's words. But then, they have also changed words in the Book of Mormon so maybe when they say follow the living prophet, they really mean that God changes his mind so often that dead prophet words are just so yesterday and only words written or spoken since the latest prophet took office can be considered true.
Joseph Fielding Smith was the prophet at the time of Benson's talk.

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